Question on Cell phones in France
 

I know this topic has been done to death already but I wanted to run one more on this topic by the expert fodorites. My wife and I will be in Paris and would like two cell phones to call each other while we're in Paris (but in different places in the city). We won't be calling the US, we won't be calling other countries, nor will we be receiving calls from anywhere else but Paris.

Also, here in the US we use Verizon cell service which is no good for France.

So, our question is: should be try and buy two used tri-band phones here from ebay and add SIM cards when we get to Paris or buy two phones from mobal and just pay as we go? Are there any obvious alternatives we're overlooking?

Thanks so much! We really appreciate it. SDA

<Are there any obvious alternatives we're overlooking?>
Walky talky?

>buy two used tri-band phones here from ebay
Tribands are ONLY needed it you want to use the phones in the US. A plain standard dual band 900/1800 phone will do. It's very difficult to get single band phones today and they'll be havy and outdated. So what you need is a standard GSM phone used oll over the planet except nothern and central America (and Japan). Those are sold (unlocked) on ebay. At the post office across the street here in my hometown such a phone (unlocked) and new costs 19.95€ made by Motorola.

Does Verizon not have an international plan? We have Cingular and were able to take our own phones but subscribe to their international plan ($5.99 per month per phone and .99 per minute). Worked great for us.

The problem here is one has to watch very closely that the dual band they buy is a world dual band (900/1800) as opposed to a North American (850/1900) dual band...the ones the OP need are not easily found on ebay in the USA and other ebays don't always ship cheaply to the USA.

However, I have found a shop I believe at L8shop.net that sells the Nokia 1100, unlocked, dual band and will ship to the USA (assuming that's where the OP is) for about £22 each so two would be about £44 and shipping to the USA about £10 (unfortunately the US$ has tanked against GBP) but that's about as cheap as I have found. Then they'll need French sim cards according to the scenario and French sim cards are among the most expensive in the world as well as French calling rates. It's doable of course but for a once in a lifetime trip not so sure how doable..

Then there's mobal with the cheapest phone, the $49 phone...will come with a sim card but calling rates are very high and the phone is locked.

Or maybe the time has come to switch their US provider to either t mobile US or cingular, port their numbers, keep their same numbers and use the roaming capabilities of these gsm US carriers (I don't know what everybody sees in Verizon anyway, their choice of phones stinks and you can't just get a new phone with the features you want by changing sim cards, they don't use sim cards)...if they do that, the gsm carrier will give them a new phone and all they have to make sure is they get a tri band or preferably a quad band.

(BTW I have found some quad bands on ebay for as little as $85 but that may not be what they want to spend)..

Most solutions are going to be expensive...worth it perhaps if they are a frequent travellers to Europe but not so sure about a once in a lifetime trip.

Verizon does not use GSM phones. The phones they use won't work in Europe.

However in the US, I personally would never use GSM because I want to be able to stand on a sand dune somewhere in Utah and make a phone call to Germany. Neither T-Mobile nor Cingular can provide this pleasure. So forget it!

Thanks for the input. Just a few quick follow-up questions.

First, some context. We are in the US and we are frequent travelers to France -- usually once per year for about one month. So, we don't mind making an investment in the phone (a one-time purchase) if we can save on per-minute expenses.

Is it possible to simply buy the correct phone (dual band 900/1800) in Paris without getting a 12 month contract and then add SIM cards as needed. We'd need to buy two phones actually.

As for why Verizon, I'd say in hindsight this was a mistake to sign up with them. Unfortunately, we have over one year to go on our contracts.

SDA

>in Paris without getting a 12 month contract and then add SIM cards as needed
You'll get a phone whthout any monthly payment or further obligations and a SIM card. If you run out of money, you'll have to buy recharge coupons. Rates won't be that low however, but incoming is free.
Verizon isn't a bad choice at all if you travel whitin the US. I've simply bought an Alltel/Verizon prepay phone at Walmart.(15ct/min). www.simplefredom.net . Why would you pay more?

Thats of course www.simplefreedom.net

Hi Logos:

Thanks for the information. Do you know how much the SIM cards cost and the rate per minute for calls within France? Perhaps it is no cheaper to go this route than the mobal route ($49 per phone, $1.25 per minute)? I just don't know.

I have no complaints about verizon in the US. You're right, they do seem to have the best coverage. My only complaint is that they are of no use with international travel.

Mobal works fine for us. I have a T-Mobile phone/account so the Mobal was for hubby, who sometimes goes off on a train to golf. We like the convenience of being able to contact each other while separated and only make very short calls. The Mobal was the $49 model and we've not made more than $30 in calls (both phones) on any one trip. Note that this arrangement results in a per-minute charge on each phone for both incoming/outgoing calls. In other words, everytime he called me or I called him, we both paid. Still, $30 or less for the purpose intended. We also called the house-sitter a couple times, again briefly.

I know nothing about 'texting' and don't know if this would be a bit cheaper using above arrangement or not.

You need to do "callthru", that is using a "local" relatively low cost french dialin number that connects you to the US or callback, that is some phone company you call, let it ring, hang up and than get a call from that company to connect you wherever you want. www.enlinea.com costs 28ct per minute, but there are cheaper alternatives! You'll never run out of minutes of your french phone doing it that way since incoming calls are free!

In Germany at least, locked (to a certain provider) phones start from 9.95€ incl. 5€ calling credit, unlocked start from 19.95€. Sims cost between 5€ and 15€, incl. 5€ to 10€ calling credit. Penny.de has an offer starting next Monday. 2 SIMS (working on T-Mobile!) cost 10€ incl. 10€ calling credit. Calls are 14ct to any German phone. SIMS in France are a little! more expensive.

Since you mentioned that you are frequent visitors to France, IMO your best option is to purchase 2 unlocked tri- or quad-band phones on ebay for the lowest price you can find. When you get to Paris, purchase 2 SFR sim cards. The rate per min. for outgoing domestic (within France) calls is €0.55 and the rate for calls to the US and the rest of Europe is €0.75. Incoming calls are free while in France.

When you activate the SIM cards, choose the "50% vers un N°" Option. This allows you to choose one SFR number to which your calls will be discounted 50% after the first minute. This means that calls to each other's mobile while in France will be €0.55 for the 1st min. & €0.275 per min. thereafter. There are also ways to save on outgoing calls by taking advantage of the free incoming calls using a call back service as was mentioned above.

The reason I suggested tri- or quad- band phones is because some SIM cards expire after a certain amount of time if there is no activity. For €0.30 you can keep the card active by sending a text message every 6 months or so from your home in the US. This way next time you go to France your phones will ready to go without having to purchase a new SIM card and you will have the same phone numbers. If you only have European dual-band phones, they will not work in the US at all. Also, if you choose to switch to T-Mobile or Cingular when your Verizon contract you can use these phones instead of buying new ones as long as they are at least tri-band.

Hi guys...

For some idea of the French operator rates, you can go to www.prepaidgsm.net and look at the operators page, go to Europe, then France and they will list the various operators in France with a quick overview of their rates and prices and then a link to their web page...unfortunately as is to be expected with the French, the web pages are in French only (not to be critical of the French mind you, but for most other mobile operators in Europe, you will find a British flag which will direct you to an English version of the web page..also in other countries than France you can set the voice prompts on your phone to English, you can't do that with the French sims I'm most familiar with)...

I've had an Orange FR sim for a few years, before the international sims came on the scene and have managed to keep it active by periodically recharging it.....the French sims are notoriously bad in this....when you top up they give you only a specified period of validity and then if you haven't used all the credit, they take it away but the sim card remains active for another 6 months to receive calls in France and then to be topped up to maintain validity...the problem is to top up a French sim while you can do it from the USA as they do allow roaming in the USA, you have to purchase the re charge slip before leaving France...SFR is part of the vodafone system and can use a vodafone top up in the country the top up is purchased in but has pretty much the same kind of arrangements.

Perhaps the least expensive French sim I know of is Virgin mobile...you can buy a sim package and a cheap locked dual band phone at Virgin Mobile megastores. They are one of the operators listed on the web site I noted above.

Calling to the USA is expensive as noted on the French sims...one way around this is to use calling cards. I have a calling card from a firm called bizon....they used to charge 2¢/minute to call the USA, I think it has gone up recently but it's easy to get, very competitive and can be re-charged on the net. They give you local numbers in a variety of countries including France so what you will do is called the local French number, pay the French rate and then be connected to the bizon network. Or you can buy an ld card from a tabac in France but make sure it has a local French number...some of the cards have numbers akin to US 800 numbers but some of the mobile companies charge extra to access these numbers. Also be aware that at least Orange FR has tried to distract me from making calls to the bizon number by inserting a tone on my end although as of yet they haven't actually blocked the number (Orange UK did this but then again UK rates to the USA on some mobile networks can be as low as 4p/monute which makes the use of a calling card unnecessary with a UK sim in the UK)...

Finally logos it is one of those urban myths that verizon is coverage is all that much better than that of cingular and t mobile USA....in all cases there are areas where one is better than the other...you may have hit on one of those areas. I can show you areas in the USA where verizon stinks and cingular or T Mobile are better. And again there is a big big advantage of GSM over CDMA..namely with CDMA you are stuck with whatever phone verizon provides...with GSM if you see a catch new phone that you want, if it is unlocked, all you need to is switch your sim card. Without entering a debate as to which is better, CDM<A or GSM, let me say my service with T Mobile US has been perfectly adequate and I have never been left without service in all my travels in the USA.

And I must say to you logos at least your country has seen the light as several German telcoms lost a recent court case (Vodafone DE among them) and now cannot take away people's credit on their sim cards after a certain period. I wish the French would do the same.

Too wordy for you Robespierre, sorry. But I have so much great knowledge to impart.

Hello,

Look at buying two tri/quad band unlocked without a plan at
http://www.tigerdirect.com

You can also wait until you arrive in France to buy two inexpensive phones with prepaid plans.

If you need info on other countries,
try
http://www.gsmworld.com

Its in English and gives a lot of good info.

Enjoy!!

Look at T-Mobiles coverage in Colorado, Utah, the Dakotas, Kansas, Idaho, Oregon, Nevada... It sucks! I went through all those states, as soon as you leave the city there's no coverage left. The freeways are covered, but the rest is just awful. Really, I don't want to be stuck in a dangerous situation there having to rely on GSM!! It's just lightyears apart. I Canada GSM works, why doesn't it work in the mid west USA!

Excellent information. Thanks so much for taking the time to write. This is exactly why I love fodors.

xyz123, thanks for the link to the phone rates. The activation fees seem high. I suppose those fees are per phone? Can any of these cards be bought all around Paris?

ripit, I tend to agree with you about buying a phone from ebay and taking it with. one question tho: a quad band can be used in france and the us while a triband only in europe? or both tri and quad work in both places. as a verizon customer i'm a bit clueless about these things. thanks too for the 50 percent off suggestion. sounds good!

SDA

Look at the charts on http://www.gsmworld.com. There's an eye opener, if you havn't been to those places. :-) GSM coverage is almost non existant in most of the US territory west of Denver, Nebraska and the Dakotas. But unfortunatly those are the places to go for a holiday.

>quad band... triband
To keep it simple. (There are several varieties of dual/three bands available).
4 Bands exist: 850, 900, 1800, 1900

Europe + World uses 900 + 1800
North America uses 850 + 1900. :-)

T Mobile has recently been set up roaming arrangements to cover its acknowledged holes in its coverage.

Cingular, which is being rebranded as the new AT&T as opposed to the old AT&T which became Cingular and is now going back to AT&T is much better in that regard. I suppose if I were going through the rural areas you mentioned, I might consider a Verizon prepaid but most of my travels are on freeways.

As to the whys and wherefores of how CDMA of Verizon has become so dominant, it's tied up with arrangements Verizon's predecessors made with Qualcomm for its phones...Qualcomm had certain patents and as noted with a CDMA carrier, you have no flexibility. You have to use the phone they provide period. To switch to GSM at this point for Verizon would be very expensive. It is also surprising as Vodafone owns 49% of Verizon and really wants to establish a presence in the American market for roaming capabilities and made a big effort to buy AT&T Wireless but failed; since then vodafone's pursuit of an American partner has cooled somewhat.

As far as this question of frequencies; the problem with tri band phones relates to the fact that as with so many other things, the USA is contrary minded, although in this case perhaps it is justified. European and many other carriers outside the USA settled on the use of the 900 mhz and 1800 mhz frequencies some time ago for their gsm networks. The only major gsm network in the USA until about 5 years ago was T Mobile (it was originally called Voicestream). T Mobile used 1900 mhz for its gsm network and picked up some customers because of the use of gsm and the ability to use phones overseas provided the phones had the right frequencies. So some manufacturers began making tri band phones which would use 900/1800/1900 which was fine for Americans who had T Mobile as their carrier going to Europe or Australia or South Africa or whatever and also allowed Europeans coming to the USA to roam with their own phones (provided it was a tri band) on the T Mobile networ. That was the only choice then.

Around 2002, cingular decided to convert to GSM. But the 1900 frequency was really saturated and they couldn't use 900 or 1800 as these frequencies in the USA were alloted to other things. So, since they had some licenses for 800 mhz (which is identical to 850 mhz) they began using 850 mhz for much of their network. In some cases they shared towers with T Mobile, for example, to get into the NY market. Therefore a cingular customer needed a phone with both 850 and 1900 for optimum coverage. But they also wanted in on the international roaming bit so they prevailed on some manufacturer's to begin producing phones with 850/1800/1900...the phones were usable in Europe for roaming purposes but could be a problem if one bought individual sims. Europeans coming to the USA using their tri band phones, therefore, for the most part were stuck with roaming on T Mobile as their tri band phones lacked 850. The obvious solution? Well of course it is to make quad band phones with 850/900/1800/1900. Motorola was first on the scene with those...the phones in a word stunk and it took a while for the other phone manufacturers to move in the direction of quad bands. The reality is the USA market is not one of their priorities as, of course, the biggest carrier in the USA is Verizon which is not GSM and their GSM phones would be useless.

A further complication arose when T Mobile began signing these roaming agreements with smaller US carrier to augment their coverage which as logos does point out is spotty in some areas to say the least. But these small carriers guess what...used 850...so T mobile which for years had pursued customers by point out the easy with which one could roam internationally with their tri band phones was forced to begin selling phones which had 850...and the tri band phones they begam to sell were 850/1800/1900. Can these phones be used in Europe...well yes and no...it most of the urban areas of Europe when roaming there will be some carrier who uses 1800 and the phone will register and allow international roaming. But if you get that phone unlocked and want to use a local sim...say you want to use O2 in the UK...O2's predominant coverage is 900...they have improved to some degree their 1800 coverage but you would have some difficulties in some areas of the UK with such a phone.

So..can you use a tri band phone bought in the USA in Europe...yes but it's not as flexible. Can a European use a tri band (900/1800/1900) phone to roam in the USA; yes but again it's not as flexible and there are gaps in coverage (those areas where T Mobile is not located).

It's interesting stuff!

logos...take a look at the latest coverage maps of both cingular and t mobile...you will find the situation has improved to some degree.

Of course, new technologies are being developed all the time and in the next decade, gsm and cdma might all be obsolute!

logos..

You're absolutely right...I've never traveled in those areas..I'm a big city boy myself. I suppose I can see the need for Verizon in those areas!

and so then the difference or perhaps just one difference between tri (850/1800/1900) and quad (850/900/1800/1900) is the price?

I looked at the site Stormin suggested and the cheapest unlocked triband seemed to be about $70. Does that price seem right or do you suppose I could get a cheaper triband in Paris?

We have Verizon and since they don't have an international plan we decided to rent two cell phones from them. Vodafone was the company that we received the cell phones from and paid $300 each phone as a security deposit. Each call made or received cost $1.50 per minute and was deducted from the $300 security deposit. It also cost 28.00 per phone to have it delivered to us. We forwarded our Verizon calls to the new phones so as to be able to receive any emergency calls from the States. It may not have been the cost effective way to do this but it worked for us. Just another option for you.

Forgot to mention that after any calls were deducted from the security deposit the remaining amount will be credited back to us.

There are some quad band phones I've seen on ebay for around $80...I have my own personaly prejudices against Motorola phones but that's a personal matter. $75 isn't a bad price for an unlocked gsm tri band...I think the ones on Tiger Direct are 900/1800/1900...again if you're not using a gsm carrierin the USA you don't need the 1900.

You can check the web sites of the various French operators to get an idea of pricing of phones...as I explained on the operators' page on www.prepaidgsm.net you can link to the web page of any French carrier...while the web pages will be in French, you can figure out the pricing. Bear in mind, though, that most likely any phone you buy in France will be locked to that carrier. Phones can be unlocked (but don't do it in Germany!) but that is an added cost!

I'm not sure I understand the pricing on the French provider's websites.

On that site www.prepaidgsm.net it mentions something about activation fees. They seem to range from 15-30 E. What is an activation fee? Is that paid when you add a SIM card? It seems a bit steep?

normal, thanks for the suggestion. I appreciate it.

Activation fee is the price of the sim package followed by the amount of credit included with the sim package...these do change from time to time when specials are run but it gives you an idea.

BTW do understand that French sim packages are among the most expensive in the world as is the cost of local and international calls. Unfortunately not everything is like the UK where they are all but giving the sim cards away because of the ocmpetition.

xyz, thanks for the info. I think I pretty much get it.

If I were to send an email out to friends and family here in the US asking if they had an old cell phone laying around that they were no longer using, what would I ask for: a tri or quad band phone, gsm, un-locked (most likely from T-mobile). Does that sound right?

...interesting thought...

you want an unlocked gsm tri band phone preferably from t mobile with 900/1800/1900 or an unlocked quad band...don't know how many people will have them but it's worth a try (or if somebody is up for an upgrade, perhaps they will upgrade and give you the phone they're giving up.

xyz,

that's what I'm thinking. it's worth a shot. even if the phone is locked, it can be unlocked, correct?

if that doesn't work we've decided to simply invest in two phones while we're in paris. we'll buy dual band because we only need them for France. We'll buy SIM cards as needed this trip and when we return next year we'll bring our phones with and just add SIM (or minutes) as needed.

Sound reasonable?

One last thing (I swear!)Considering our new plan, any thoughts on best places in Paris to buy two cheap dual bands? I read on a separate but related thread a post, from Robespierre I think, that he bought a Virgin mobile for something like L30. Are those sold at Virgin stores in Paris? Elsewhere?

Thanks!!

You have to remember Virgin Mobile UK and Virgin Mobile FR are two separate issues....it would seem the best might be to go to a Virgin Mega store...there is one right on the Champs Elysee...of course there are also stores for Orange, SFR and Bouyges...probably I would go at this stage with Virgin Mobile...do check the validity of the sim...if you don't want tohave to buy a new sim you might have to take a top up slip for the lowest possible amount (10€) and top it up as the validity of the card on most of the French networks, as we noted, expires six months after they steal your unused credit...that would seem the best way to go with your plan which will work.

SDA - I'm glad you asked, cuz we have a similar set up but will be in London after Paris, ... and
If I'm understanding this right,
we can buy 2 phones in Paris to use for 1 week, and buy the France SIM cards.

Then we can take the phones with us to London (to use for another week) and buy a UK SIM card to use there (cuz it is cheaper).

Then we can take the phones home and loan them to friends or sell them on Craigslist.

As already suggested, basic quadbands can be had very cheaply nowadays. I just picked up a new Moto V195 quadband as a backup for $39 shipped from tmobile payg website. True, it's locked to tmobile but they will unlock after 90 days of service or it can be unlocked via a 3rd party for about $25.

BTW, tmobile service is not needed to get this phone if anyone else is interested. This same phone can be had on ebay for about $85 or so...unlocked of course.

xyz, this is complicated stuff but I thank you for all your input. you are a wealth of knowledge. thank you for sharing (and with a slow learner, to boot!).

suz, sounds good to me. should work.

at this point, unless i can pick up the correct phone for free or very cheap from family or friends, i don't see the advantage of buying a tri or quad band here in the US and bringing to France. All we need is a European dual band so probably better off just to buy there. I'll follow this up with a post letting you all know how it turns out. That'll be in early August.

If you buy a cheap and simple nokia - it can easily be unlocked by yourself with helpful instructions off the web.

ok, change of plans. I was just offered a T-mobile Nokia 3220 tri-band from a friend. It's locked however. Will T-mobile unlock it, even tho I'm not a customer of theirs or should I find instructions on the web to unlock it. So, that's one down. Now we just need one more. Thanks!

SDAI, the 3220 is one of the nokias that can be unlocked for free via an online code generator. Just search the web for "unlocking nokia 3220". OTOH, if you know anyone that has been with tmobile for more than 90 days in good standing they should be able to get the code for you.