Question About Türkçe
 

I am trying to learn a moderate amount of Turkish for my upcoming trip to Turkey. I'm using the Pimsleur method, which asks the learner to repeat what they hear, with no accompanying text. I am unsure about a few of the sounds, and would like to be exact. I cannot find these words in my Turkish/English dictionary, because I don't know their spelling. Would anyone know of a source where I might verify the Turkish spelling of a few words? Or could anyone with command of the Turkish language possibly verify a few words for me? Thanks for any help.

Fire away. There are plenty of Turkish speakers around these parts.

One place to start would be to review the Turkish alphabet or phonology (depending on your comfort with linguistics).

A basic Turkish alphabet primer:

http://www.onlineturkish.com/alphabet.asp

Info on Turkish phonology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_phonology

Problem #1 is the phrase "I too am well", which on the recording sounds like "ben de iyiyem", where ben=I, de=too, and iyiyem=I am well. Another phrase, "At our place", sounds like "bizde", where biz=we/us, and de=in/at. The "de" sound is similar in both phrases when spoken on the tape, but I don't see how they can be spelled the same, since they mean two different things. Thanks again for any help.

The "de" is spelled the same.

(It shouldn't matter that the meanings are different. If I say "trip" in English, do you think of travelling or do you think of falling down?)

It is "iyiyim" by the way - long "i" all the way through.

Wow - that is some great information, and it explains a lot. If I may present two additional issues:
Problem #2
The speaker on my CD is saying the statement "This place here". I have narrowed the spelling down to either "burasa / boo-rah-sah" or "burası / boo-rah-suh". A related question is the spelling for the question "Is it this place here?", which might be either "burasamı?" or "burasımı?"
Problem #3
"Fine, let's eat" sounds like either "Olur, iyelem" or "Olur, iyelım". A related question is the spelling for "Let's drink/Let me drink", which sounds like either "içeyem" or "içeyım".
Thanks for the first round of help, and thanks in advance for any help you can give on this set of issues.

#2 It's "burası". And the question would be "burası mı?"

I'm a little rusty...

#3 The construction for first person imperatives in the plural is -(y)alım/-(y)elim.

The form for the singular is -(y)ayım/-(y)eyim. So it would be "içeyim" - let me drink - in your second example.

Keep in mind the concept of vowel harmony. You will (almost) never have a word with both the "i" and the "ı" sounds.

Good luck - it sounds like you are doing fine. I wouldn't worry about the finer points of spelling at this point. The written forms may distort your proper pronunciation that you are learning from the tapes. Pimsleur would be mad at you. But do keep in mind the idea of vowel harmony. It sounds like that would answer a good bulk of your inquiries.

I will make the necessary changes, and begin practicing. Thanks again for the great help.

No problem - but take it with a grain of salt - I am no native speaker. It's a fun language and your knowledge of basic Turkish will be a tremendous asset on your trip. Enjoy!

I learned pronunciation and basic phrases for our month long trip, and the locals were totally charmed. We had a great time, and made a few Turkish friends we've kept in touch with. Good for you --it will make a big difference!

Iamogood and woyzeck, i am very impressed. Good questions and very good answers. You do not need a Turkish speaker like me, who is stuck in London (now in Colchester) waiting for the Ash to dissipate, with infrequent access to WiFi.

If you have any tough ones and i can reach the forums, i will also pitch in.

Thanks for the validation otherchelebi. Yours is a beautiful and welcoming country.

What would you say the general Turkish attitude is towards tourists attempting to speak the native language? I found in my travels that my basic Turkish went a long way, that it seemed to be understood well, although I had a very hard time understanding Turks speaking Turkish. I was able to speak to a family of farmers in the Ihlara Valley, for instance, but hardly able to understand what they were saying to us.

Woyzeck, the man (or woman) in the street (soorry meant 'lady') will love it if you can speak even a few words.
If you know more than a few, they would try to improve your pronounciation or grammar also. But i would not try it with the restaurant touts, touristic shopkeepers and large hotel receptions. The first two will try to take advantage of you and with the receptionist, you will just waste time in getting your wish.

when ordering food, it will be good.
when buying at the weekly street markets it will be very useful.
in Eastern Turkey or the Black Sea Coast, it may be a requirement.

Do not ever feel shy. The regular Turk will try to understand what you are trying to say and try to help you along. Not at all like the French. :)

By the way, was the play i once acted in named after you? :)

My current Pimsleur lesson has only one confusing phrase. When the speaker asks "Shall we eat there?", it sounds like: "Orada iyelime? / oh-rah-dah ee-yehl-eem-eh?". Might you be able to correct any errors in this phrase? As always, thanks for the help.

The first word is correct. the second one should be yee-yeh-lim-mee.

good luck.

by the way, we are still stuck in UK, currently at Marks Tey, near Colchester, within a hop, skip and jump of Stansted. Tomorrow's flight cancelled. earliest scheduled flight available on 27th.

Thanks once again. I am creating my index cards of phrases as a reference. Before I print them, do I need to make any corrections?
1) "What shall we eat? = Ne iyelim ?
2) "What shall we drink?" = Ne içeyim ?
3) "What would you drink?" = Ne içersiniz ?
4) "I'd like to drink coffee" = Kahve içeyim
5) "Shall we drink coffee?" = Kahve içelime ?
6) "Shall we eat there?" = Orada iyelime ?
7) "Let's drink here" = Burada içelim

To eat is "yemek yemek"...

...so #1 should be "Ne yiyelim?"

Similarly, #6 should be "Orada yiyelime?"

#2 is singular, plural should be, 'ne icelim?'

#5 and #6 should end with ...im mi (written form) (pronounced im mee)

the 'mi' is not a suffix in this case and is written separately although pronounced together. This syllable is what makes the sentence a question.

like: 'bu benim' meaning this is mine and 'bu benim mi?' meaning is this mine?

Thanks again for the corrections so far - they've been a big help. My latest Turkish lesson is unclear in the following ways:
1) If I am speaking to a man named Ali, do I call him "Ali Bey", Ah-lee Bay (meaning Mr. Ali)?
2) If I need to speak to a waiter at a restaurant, I say: "bakarmısınız?" bah-kahr muh-suh-nuhz (meaning "would you look?). Is the spelling correct?
3) If I don't understand somebody, I can say "efandim?" eh-fahn-deem, to mean "I beg your pardon?". Is the spelling correct there as well?
4) "At the _____ restaurant" sounds something like "_____ lokanta sın da" ( _____ loh-kahn-tah suhn dah). I can't tell if it is "sın", sen", or "sin".

As always, thanks for any help.

1. correct
2. correct, but i would call his attention first by calling him "Garson Bey" and then maybe also say "bakarmisiniz?"if no immediate response.
3. It is "Efendim" eh-fen-dim.

4. correct. It is "sın"

Thanks again. Only one issue in my latest Turkish lesson: "Shall we eat together?" It sounds something like "Beraber iyelim mi?" (Behr-ah-behr ee-yehl-eem mee?). It's the first word I can't understand - is "beraber" close? As always, thanks for the help.

Beraber means 'together' not close. close is 'yakin'

the course keeps on making the same mistake in spelling and pronouncing 'to eat'. It is not 'iyelim mi' but 'yiyelim mi'
and should be pronounced 'yee-yeh-lim-mee?"

Understood - I will make the change. The people on the CD might actually be saying "yiyelim" not "iyelim", but I can't really hear that "y" sound at the start of the word. Does this mean that "içelim" is wrong, and is actually "yiçelim"? And is it also correct to say "yiçeyim", not "içeyim"? Thanks again.

Sorry, the verb "içmek" is correct. No "y" there.

"yemek' is both a verb and a noun, meaning both 'to eat' and 'food'

Thanks once again. Could you tell me if the following is accurate?
1) "With whom?" sounds like "kiminle" kee-meen-leh .
2) "I understand" sounds like "anladım" ahn-lah-duhm .
3) "At 8:00 ?" sounds like "saat sekiz de mi ?" sah-aht seh-keez deh mee ? (also, in this case, do "sekiz" and "de" go together, as in "sekizde mi?" ?)
As always, these corrections have been very helpful.

You are really trying to be an expert and will soon start competing with me as an author in turkish. :)

1. yes
2. yes
3. Yes. the "de" meaning "at' is a suffix, so written attached to the word. If the "de' is used to mean "also" it is not a suffix and it is separate.

One hint : almost all the double 'e's you use as a guide to pronunciation should be pronounced as short 'ee's. like the personal pronoun "me' rather than a long 'mee'.

Only one issue with today's Turkish lesson:
1) When comparing two things in a statement (not a question), the speaker uses an expression that sounds like "yada", or "yıdı", or "yadı". As in: "Coffee or tea". "kahve yada çay" kahh-veh yah-dah cheye. Is yada or yıdı or yadı the right expression?

"yada" means "or"

Ya is a shortened version of "veya"

the 'da', after 'ya' is not a suffix, but the short word as explained on previous post and written separately. As such, you will never have 'de' or 'di' only 'da'

Ya da means 'either' or 'or else' also.

sorry, you can have a "de" as well, if the final vowel of the previous word is an e,i, ü or ö .

If I can get another round of explanation, are you saying the the English word "or" can either be expressed as the complete word "veya", or the shortened word "ya"? And that the da/de in "ya da" actually belongs to one of the things being compared? If so, is the phrase "at the restaurant or at the hotel" translated as: "lokanta ya da otel de" ? Or is it "lokanta da ya otel de". Or is "lokanta da veya otel de" best?

From my latest Turkish lesson:
1) "That's impossible" sounds like "olmas" ohl-mahs.
2) "Is it fine ?" sounds like "olurmı ?" oh-loor-muh ?
Are either of these correct? Thanks again for the help - the lessons are getting faster, and it's sometimes difficult to keep up.

Again, the 'da' or 'de' meaning 'at' is a suffix so it should be attached.

Re 'at the restaurant or at the hotel' the first and the third alternatives are correct, although the third sounds better, "lokantada veya otelde"

The 'ya' sounds better when followed by 'ya da' , as in either....or. So, "ya lokantada ya da otelde"

Next:

1. 'olmaz' is actually a slightly stressed 'No!' and not 'impossible'. Impossible is usually translated into two words. The older arabic origin is "mümkün değil" and the modern one is "olanak dışı"

2. "olur mu?" means "is it OK?" and usually follows a proposal, "lokantaya gıdelim, olur mu?" has almost the same meaning as "lokantaya gidelim mi?" , although the first version ımplıes that there is one or more choice.

Great info - I'm making the corrections on my notecards. If I can also ask:
1) "Is it 4:00?" sounds like "Saat dört mı ?" sah-aht dert muh ? but I can't really tell if the question word is mı (muh) or mu (moo). Same problem for "Is it 3:00?" which sounds like either "saat üç mı? or "saat üç mu?". I know these question words are based based on the last vowel of the previous word.
2) "At 4:00" sounds like "Saat dört te", but I can't tell if it is supposed to be written "saat dörte" or "saat dört te".
As always - thank you for the help.

1. it is "saat dört mü?" and "üç mü?" would be "iki mi" and "dokuz mu" and "altı mı", "on mu" , etc.

2. You will not catch me saying it any different: when it means 'at' it is a suffix and written attached to the word as all suffixes should, when it means also or too, then it is written separately. so it will 'saat dörtte', "saat onda" etc.

My bad on the "ya da" = "or" mix up. I am a native English speaker whose Turkish is still a little rusty. I definitely defer to otherchelebi. This thread is fun for me to read!

The pace is getting much faster in my Pimsleur Turkish lessons, and the speaker is not repeating himself nearly as much. These are the phrases I couldn't really understand:
1) "Repeat" - sounds like "tekrarleyin" teh-krarh- lay-een
2) "In that case/then" - sounds like "ozaman" oh-zah-mahn
3) "Listen" - sounds like "dinleyin" deen-lay-een
Any guidance will be appreciated. Thanks.