Proper Attire in Italian Churches
 

I'll be in Italy in June and was wondering what the expectations are for attire in getting into the churches and cathedrals in Italy and specifically Rome. I don't want to be turned away but I do expect the weather to be warm. Please give me some guidelines. Thank you!

Shoulders are expected to be covered. I always wore a skirt, just barely above the knee, a tank top or spaghetti straps top, and then stuffed a think silk scarf in my bag that i could pull out and cover my shoulders with.

hope that helps.

St. Peters is the strict one. The dress code has little to do with the weather.

Look at "Quick Facts" section of:
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/i...s-basilica.htm

or
http://www.saintpetersbasilica.org/t....htm#dresscode
http://www.saintpetersbasilica.org/P...essCode-JG.jpg

Most churches won't care. St. Peter's is the one with the major "rules." Make sure your knees and shoulders are covered and you'll be fine. It's a pretty simple matter of respect. I saw a guy outside the Vatican once go ballistic because he'd traveled who knows how far to get there and wanted to get in but they wouldn't let him because he was shirtless and wearing shorts. What was he thinking?

Last summer I was expected to cover up in Siena. I had brought a silk scarf which I wore for a while, but it was stifling hot and so I removed it once inside. No one confronted me, but I did feel uncomfortably "exposed". My advice: pack a silk scarf. They fold up so they don't take up much room, and you won't have to wear the paper ponchos at the churches. I agree that you definitely need to cover up at the Vatican; it's like airport security there. However, even many of the small churches out in Tuscany will expect coverage. For the amazing art that you will see, it is worth it!

Am I the only person in the world who wouldn't dream of entering a house of worship of any denomination in shorts and/or with bare shoulders? I don't get the silk scarf business. If a person knows he/she will be entering churches, why wouldn't she/he wear something modest.

I agree with Pegontheroad. I'm not particularly regligious but it seems obvious that respectful attire is going to be the considerate thing to wear. A short sleeved top of some description, I would imagine not too much cleavage, and long length shorts/capris/jeans/skirt etc. I find it incredible that this topic even comes up so often. Surely it's mostly commonsense??

One of the benefits in traveling abroad is to realize that what you hold as common sense is not common at all in other cultures.

I go to churches regularly in the U.S. and I see shorts, sleeveless dresses, and mini-skirts all the time.

Hi greg, it's amazing isn't it?? I wonder if somebody said to gardeninggal 'what should I wear to a church' what would her answer be - "ok, a strapless top and your shortest skirt will be fine"?

I amazes me that so many Americans ask this question when a large part of the rest of the world sees Americans as particularly conservative. Certainly we do here in Australia, where in American shows, even pieces of art work have their breasts and genitals 'blurred' in case anyone should be offended.

cathies--you aren't seeing the same American shows I can get on TV. I've certainly never seen artwork shown on TV that was censored as you described. Though I don't watch the born-again Christian channels, maybe you're watching some of their shows, though I can't imagine even them blurring out breasts on a painting.

Since I live in Italy and enjoy seeing so many immodest nudes and genitals inside the churches, I think the cover-up rule for visiting the Vatican is evidence of a peculiar body-hating that comes and goes. I'm not at all surprised that people who aren't Catholics don't think they need to "cover up" their shoulders and knees (what's immodest about shoulders and knees?).

As Larry Flynt once said, if you don't like the body parts, complain to the manufacturer.

nobody mentioned that men are expected to remove hats/caps.

"I don't get the silk scarf business. If a person knows he/she will be entering churches, why wouldn't she/he wear something modest."
>>When you're spending a whole day walking and it's 100 degrees, modest dress is a bit more difficult.

While St. Peter's is the only strict one, some other churches in Rome have signs at the entrances asking for shoulders to be covered.

Rufus I don't watch born again Christian shows - you obviously didn't read my earlier post about not being very religious!! I wish I could think of an example, but can't at the moment.

The proper attire questions has been raised, answered, raised again and answered again and on and on. It is hot, very hot in the summer in Rome, out of respect just have a coverup. I always carried an wrap around skirt just in case, it only takes a minute to cover up shorts and the scarf around my neck covered my shoulders - no problem. The ball caps should be removed in a house of worship, I could go further and say in also in restaurants, at the dinner table, at movie theaters, etc.

"it seems obvious that respectful attire is going to be the considerate thing to wear."

Who is this supposed to be "repectful" to? God's embarrassed about Her creation, is She?

Christ never said anything about dress codes - but he had an extraordinary amount to say about people telling other people how to behave in church. Only in Italy does Catholicism descend to this profoundly unChristian intolerance. I've never come across any variety of Christianity outside Italy (not even in America) that believes dress codes have any place in religion - except, of course for the crucial question of whether a bishop, during a service he's not presiding over, should wear a black or amaranth biretta or a camauro.

People - like Greg and me - who actually go to church regularly know that Christians wear whatever they feel like to pray. Italy's obsession with hiding legs has nothing to do with religion (Catholics have been gawping at pretty girls during Mass for 2,000 years) or prudery (my local church is stuffed with medieval paintings of naked ladies). It's simply the Italian neurosis about making a brutta figura.

Something that's fine for etiquette manuals - but totally out of place in a house of God.

hi gal,

the Vatican is easy to deal with as others have suggested - a light scarf or shirt that you can put on over your t-shirt is the answer. However, the rules elsewhere do tend to be somewhat inconsistent and capricious. eg - in Florence, we were at our third [or 4th] church when DH was stopped, apparently because of his shorts - which were not revealing in the least. [think Carry on up the Kyber or Scouting for Boys circa 1930]. rather than require him to leave, he was offered a sarong to put around his nether regions. we still refer to his offensive knees!

given that virtually nonne of the people visiting these churches is doing so for any religious purpose I don't really get the "lack of respect" criticisms; being purely practical however, it's shame not to see something just because you're wearing the wrong clothes.

hope you enjoy your trip,

regards, ann

One does wonder why anyone would have to dress for a church. I thought it was supposed to be the house of god, not the house of the fashion police.

kerouac wrote: "One does wonder why anyone would have to dress for a church. I thought it was supposed to be the house of god, not the house of the fashion police."

Wonder, if you want to. Just remember that they own the church, and can make the rules.

No one on this board would ever, ever, EVER dare suggest that the strictures of the Jewish faith....or the Muslim faith...in matters of dress are absurd and outdated and should be ignored or scoffed at, when visiting a temple or mosque.

I repeat, no one here would dare.

Padraig has got it spot-on: They own the church, admission is a privilege not a right and they can make the rules.

Signed: tedgale, non-Catholic

'Given that virtually none of the people visiting these churches is doing so for any religious purpose I don't really get the "lack of respect" criticisms.'

But there ARE people who visit those churches for religious/spiritual purposes - mainly locals but also some visitors. Dressing respectfully is to show consideration for their sensibilities - after all, these people are using the church for the purpose it was built in the first place, and all the art works that visitors come to see have been put there to deepen people's spirituality and as an aid to devotion - not primarily as a showcase for art.
Having a dress code for Italian churches may seem like the church authorities imposing their old-fashioned views on everyone, but I'd have thought they are also being shared by the majority of practising Catholics who worship there regularly.

Many restaurants have dress code standards. People who want to dine in them follow the dress code or they are turned away.

<i>Wonder, if you want to. Just remember that they own the church, and can make the rules.</i>

That's why I like France -- "they" do not own the church. The State owns all of the churches built before 1905 and merely allow the practice of religion in them. But the religions cannot get uppity and make rules that are contrary to the values of the country.

I have always found that a dress with short sleeves and knees covered is so practical to wear in hot and humid weather and also is styled so that one can enter any church in Italy without a problem about uncovered shoulders and knees. Or a skirt, light weight pants or capris with a top that is not sleevless works well too. It really is not a problem.

Look, even the bloody Casino in Venice has a dress code. Tie and jacket for gentlemen, and dress for ladies. And even if you are Jesus, determined to upset the tables of the money changers, you’ll still need to dress.

Wear full mess kit when dining at the Mess, don’t stand for the loyal toast if it is a Royal Navy Function. Pass the port in an anti-clockwise direction, and the ladies should retire after the sweet course is served.

When dining in Hall, academic gowns are to be worn, but not academic insignia such as velvet bonnets if one holds a Doctorate. Mortar boards should on no account be worn.

ALL institutions have their rules, which might make them seem strange. And that is what makes places interesting.

As a previous poster said, take your shoes off outside the mosque; cover your head if you are a gentleman entering a synagogue. Remember that you are visiting another country, where the culture is different – and that’s maybe that’s why you are visiting. If you wish to be seen as polite, observe the local customs.

Don’t complain of the lack of oysters in Israel, don’t be surprised that horse meat is not uncommon in Italy, and that cappuccino is not drunk after noon. Don’t demand a beer in Libya. Or do all the above, and reinforce the concept of the Ugly [insert nationality here] Tourist.

Hey Flanneruk, we had to cover up in a monastery in Greece, large shawls were provided for the women and they had to be tied around our waists. I was wearing 3/4 length capris at the time - it was more the bare legs than arms that were a problem. So, it's not just Italy that imposes a dress code.

And a couple of customs here in Australia.

If you are visiting the Outback, and talking with Aboriginals, you will find that they mostly do not make eye contact with you. We Europeans see this as a sign of insincerity; we think they are being “shifty”. Aboriginals see excessive eye contact as a mark of disrespect.

Another custom that we have that is really, really important: We drive on the left hand side of the road. Please respect this custom.

And it isn't the Father, Son or Holy Ghost who sets the dress code. Until one of those three returns, the earthly mortals are in charge of the dress code.

Yes Peter_S_Aus, I have heard you Aussies get quite upset at visitors driving on the "wrong side" of the road!

But back to church requirements. The Russian Orthodox church requires all females to wear a skirt. At the Russian Orthodox Cathedral in SF if a woman arrives in pants they have some skirts available for women wearing pants if they wish to enter the Cathedral. At a family wedding there one woman married into our family insisted she was going to wear a dressy pants suit "whether the church liked it or not". Guess who won that battle, lol.

I think it's a very fair question to ask and I don't like it when people respond with statements that it's only common sense, obvious, or a matter of respect. Criticising the OP for asking or coming back with a 'well duuuuh!' attitude.

I don't have a clue what is or isn't worn at all the different types of places or worship in different places of the world. I've never been to a church service in my life (bar the odd wedding and christening)So if I plan to visit one and research what is acceptable, it doesn't make me stupid. It may be obvious to some people, but it isn't obvious to others, that's why people ask these questions.

I was at a wedding once and asked to cover up my shoulders. I'd bought what I thought was a nice wedding-y outfit, knee length dress, hat, pretty summery style, but it had spagetti straps. How was I to know? After all, bodice style wedding dresses with no straps at all are very popular now, so if that's ok, why not a guest with spagetti straps? I did have a shawl with me ready for the evening so it wasn't a problem. I know it wouldn't have been an issue in a CofE church but it was in this one (pentacostal?)

The rules really vary from individual church to individual church, so it makes sense to ask. I visit a lot of churches for work and I always check up on their rules and atmosphere before I go. OK, I'm in a work suit anyway, so should fit in, but some of them require people to remove their shoes, some would look at me funny if I wore trousers, and so on.

"I visit a lot of churches for work....some of them require people to remove their shoes, some would look at me funny if I wore trousers, and so on."

Huh??? What church requires people to remove their shoes?

I'm unfamiliar with some branches of the Church -- Antiochan Orthodox, Greek and Russian Orthodox, for example. Or the Church of Jesus Christ of the the Latter Day Saints. Or Jehovah's Witnesses -- all terra incognita to me.

But I've never heard of removing footwear in any church -- a sharp contrast, indeed, to mosques, Hindu temples and Buddhist shrines.

in 1970, my sister was barred from 2 cathedrals in Italy.

In Venice at St. Marks, she was barred for not having her shoulders covered. Mind you, this was in July and it was hot and muggy.

So in the Vatican, she wore an outfit with sleeves. She ignored my advice to get herself lost in a bunch of nuns who were entering at the same time and was barred for having a skirt above her knee. So while I toured St. Peter's, she visited with a girl we had met the week previous in Salzburg. THat girl had also been banned - even with her skirt hem undone, her skirt was not long enough.

She had no problem in churches in Spain.

encarta defines "church" as:

"1. religious building: a building for public worship, especially in the Christian religion"

<i>Especially</i> but not <i>only</i>. A former colleague (a Thai woman) used to say "going to church" when she meant going to her Buddhist temple, so I suppose the term can be used loosely for a mosque too. What's the big difference. The point is that what's considered proper dress isn't always obvious.

(That was in response to tedgale's response to nona1)

That is not standard English and it risks giving great offense to someone of another faith. To be avoided.

It's not about God - it's about respect for the beliefs of the religion in that culture. Some religions require men to be bareheaded and some demand that men cover their heads. Some places require you to remove shoes.

If you want to enter a house of worship just follow the rules set by the institution. If you feel that this is abrogating your rights to wear whatever you want - then just don;t go there.

It's just weird that <i>knees</i> would be a problem in a museum whose main attraction is a fresco of a naked man (next to god, no less).

Oh, and though God himself is not completely naked, his shoulders and one knee are on display there too.

Tedgale - yes they are Christian churches but a bit hard to explain - I couldn't really say what 'branch' of Christianity they are. Pentacostal? Not sure. They are relatively new churches and really whoever sets up the church (the pastor) gets to decide the rules. They are mainly African-run and they have a rather more old-testament attitude to religion than in the west. So in a very few, you do have to remove your shoes, and leave them in the entrance.

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