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You are fashion-conscious, aware of your age and live outside a major city whose heat and humidity are legendary. I think you are well prepared to make your own choices.
If you are sufficiently cool on top, the lower half can be fully clad without too much discomfort. Just avoid constricting clothing. Though Italy is short on air-conditioning, it has one amenity that DC lacks: dozens of Baroque churches open most of the day, whose glacial atmosphere no summer can counteract. Just pop into a pew if you overheat. |
Just tagging on here....does anyone have a good on-line source for women's clothing? I'm trying to find some nice linen pants/trousers for Italy in Sept. and not having any luck so far in local stores, including Nordstrom.
Thanks in advance for the help! |
Would shorts be appropriate for Capri? Getting in and out of a boat to view the blue grotto in a dress or skirt might be complicated.
I plan to bring long pants or skirts for most of the trip so that entry into the churches will not be a problem. My husband has tropical style shirts that I think might stand out even though they are not really that bright in color. |
It seems to me the worse fashion offenders are the ones who insist on saying, "Wear what makes you comfortable! Who cares what other people think (ie: the locals, the tourists who take the time to think and respect the culture). I'm proud to look like a (self-righteous, idiot) tourist and a (tasteless) American. I LOVE projecting my 'I don't care' attitude to onlookers. What the hell, who cares if I'm showing so much (ugly) skin in public; I'm fat, I'm proud, I'm hot, and I'm sweatin' like a pig. Now, could you just pass me some more wine?"
Why ThinG bothers to break a blood vessel over the defensive-militant, style-ignorance on this board is beyond me. I appreciate ThinG's furor and at least he tries to help, but STYLE requires an education (especially when considering dress in a foreign culture) and most Americans are too lazy to learn about something they think doesn't matter. Complacency is a byproduct of being overweight and unmotivated. If acquiring style means losing weight, exercising, studying fabrics and design, etc., why would the couch-potato-types take any interest in that? It goes against the very grain of their existence. They think they're happy, looking like every other slob who relies on Dockers, Lands' End, and Lee for their fashion statement. And they've convinced themselves they can do no wrong, as long as <i>they're</i> comfortable. I would suggest those who DON'T care about what other (foriegn) people think are the true sufferers, those lacking self-confidence and self-esteem. They need to be militant and self-righteous because they're in denial about their lack of fashion sensibility and appropriateness. If you get educated, arm yourself with information and make smart choices, there won't be any need to worry about other people's criticism or acceptance. You will fit right in, even if you don't speak the language. Your method of dress speaks volumes about you. Italian men and women don't wear shorts unless they're at a beach. It's considered immodest and inappropriate, no matter how hot or how stylish the shorts are. For men, it's also considered fey. Younger people tend to rebel against tradition and you'll always see exceptions but the foundation for this tradition is very real and potent, especially in Italy. Locals have learned to accept the "unsightly" choices of tourists who visit their country, especially in the last 20 years of increased mass-tourism. That doesn't mean it's right to disrespect their culture and throw "ugly" in their faces. Many locals will call you out on your bad taste. I've witnessed many a tourist in Rome get heckled from Roman cars for wearing shorts. Linen and cotton are great summer fabrics that have endured the test of fashion acceptance for centuries. Buy a great pair of slacks or flowing skirt and keep your legs covered at all times in public. In other words, I wouldn't be caught dead with a man wearing shorts in Rome. DO NOT WEAR SHORTS. |
NYFoodSnob,
Are you saying that a cute, fashionable, to the bottom of the knee, print cotton skirt is unacceptable in Rome - for women? Long skirts only? I really can't believe that. Any suggestions for a great pair of linen slacks? I can't find any that aren't cropped, washable linen with drawstring waists. I would like to have something a bit nicer for Rome. |
<i>"Are you saying that a cute, fashionable, to the bottom of the knee, print cotton skirt is unacceptable in Rome?"</i>
No, I'm not saying any such thing and I have no intention of participating in fashion litmus tests. If you can't make an educated guess on your own choices then you need to seek and gather more visual information. The moment you mention any personally-appropriate skirt-length suggestion some idiot will question if their choice of thong is too short. Fashion inquiries on travel boards tend to dissolve into naked muck. Furthermore, relying on fashion advice from an anonymous travel forum, especially one that refuses to offer picture-posting, is for sight-challenged morons. The idea that just because some current fashion-writ proclaims "vests" the next big thing doesn't mean ALL vests, especially those paired with "tank" tops, are making a "smashing" fashion statement (unless you are, in fact, a lesbian). This short-shrift thinking reminds me of my Ohio aunties who squealed every time they heard hair-teasing was back <i>en vogue</i>. "You see, we haven't gone out-of-style, after all!" I hated to tell the old girls that just because hairdressers were back-combing the runway tresses of Crawford and Evangelista, didn't mean the 24-kielbasa-row display-case, sitting on top of their heads (popular in the late 60's), was back in fashion. Lazy, determined people will interpret all forms of criticism to suit their fancy. The armor of self-justification is hard to penetrate. Which is why fashion, like good taste, ain't for everyone. |
Okay, can anyone help me? I've got exactly two hours to get ready to meet the French Ambassador to the US a bit after 7 at the VIP champagne reception, at the French Embassy's "Ball du Printemps." Buffet, dancing to the European Orchestra, and then later, the ballroom will turn itself into a Paris Disco.
I literally could not find anything but ugly cheap looking ballgowns-or prom type gowns. Woe is me. I have to go in an old gown, (at least it looks good on me, but it HAS been worn before) I hope the Italians aren't there. They'll think I have on "cenci!" (slang word for ugly clothing). Sigh! okay, I'm really going to get ready now.....I've forgotten how to speak basic French |
I see the editors, in good taste, chose to delete the last several threads. Thank you.
Humor is difficult to discern, sometimes, especially when the written word is your only frame of reference. And I've come to realize, thanks to the wisdom of some sophisticated Fodorites, that not everyone will get mine. Whenever I write about stereotypes, you can be pretty sure it's meant as humor. My inspiration for using the lesbian reference did come from the other poster who mentioned it first, and it make me giggle. It's never any fun to let anyone "in" on my own joke which is why I usually let "confusion" go without further comment. In other words, if you didn't get the joke, too bad for you. What can one say about a poster who uses "love" in his/her username and then writes such negative, low-brow, kick-her-in-the-gut-until-she's-dead presumptions (all untrue) about a perfect stranger? Is this the litmus test for gracious, "good" living? Ugly decorum and bad taste can be found everywhere, even through the transparent use of the word love. Denial is pretty popular, too. This is a thread about wearing shorts in Italy. How could anyone take this subject or this thread too seriously? What amazes me most about the popular show "American Idol" is there are millions of people who try out for their chance at fame and actually <b>believe</b> they have the talent to make the cut. Nobody, not even sweet, useless Paula Abdul, can convince them otherwise. Yet, you and I know that 99.9% are talentless. Imagine if these folks, and a few fodorites, were in an "American Style" competition. Would the degree of (self) belief be any different? I doubt it. Nobody wants to hear they can't sing, nobody wants to hear they have no talent, and nobody wants to admit they have no sense of style. Yet, millions continue to delude themselves. I've started to take photos of tourists I see on the streets of NYC. I think some are dressed with a terrific sense of style while others should be banned from ever entering Manhattan again. I'm not sure what I will do with these photos. Maybe Fodor's will offer me my own fashion do and don't page. |
Wear shorts!!! You'll be happy you did. ((b))
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Eloise was the one who got it right when she said "Italian men, as a rule, do not wear shorts except when they are on holiday" -- and then they do! (as well as those Capri pants things that have become the rage there with men on holiday). Why do people refuse to act like they are on holiday when they are? If you are conducting business while in Rome or Florence, then leave the shorts at home, but if you are doing the usual touristy things and it is hot, why on earth wouldn't you want to be comfortable?
So since you are not on business but rather on holiday -- do what the locals do and wear shorts. Do NOT believe those who tell you that Italian men don't wear them on holiday. In fact, you will probably find them more likely to wear much shorter shorts than you will! While in Italy I ended up buying a pair of those very light weight "cargo" type pants with zip off legs -- great for hiking when you start off in the morning when it is cool. And then I wore them to zip the legs back on when visiting a couple of churches in Ischia and the Amalfi coast. |
But, Patrick, you are from Florida. Even the alligators are dressed better than the citizens of Florida, as most people are dressed for a hurricane.
Yes, Italian men do wear shorts on holiday, but how many men holiday in "downtown" Rome or Florence? We aren't talking about the beach or mountains here, sweetie. Kudos, to you, Snobby. As Dorothy Parker stated, "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think." All the advice in the world is worthless if you don't have an open mind. It is also impossible for me to give fashion advice to someone I have never seen. However, there is something schtec can do to help make her hubby a hunk and not a skunk: go to you nearest GOOD department store or men's clothing store and ask for the help of a personal shopper. (But, wait a minute, we are talking Bloomingdale's, Saks, or the like, not BOB'S SLACK SHACK.) A personal shopper can help schtec's husband pick out a proper wardrobe for a trip to Italy. Cheers. |
Yes, Italian men do dress nicely. But do you realize that they spend so much of their money on clothes that they have to live with mama and papa.??!!
And not everyone can afford to shop at Bloomingdales and saks, I am grateful that I can.... however, Lands End makes some pretty nice things. Yes, some people are fat, does that make them bad people? You don't know what their story is... maybe they are on a diet, maybe they're trying.. Not everyone cares about being "fashionable" - you two (thingorjus and nycfood snob) are really annoying. |
"All the advice in the world is worthless if you don't have an open mind."
How true! How true! The phrase "physician heal thyself" comes to mind. By the way, "how many men holiday in downtown Rome or Florence?" Hundreds, no make that thousands. Are you aware that many Italians from all over the country do in fact holiday within the cities, just like some of us do. Some people go to the beach; others go to museums. Suggesting that Italians don't vacation in Rome or Florence is like suggesting that no Americans take vacations to New York City! I'm sorry that you aren't aware that all those tourists you see in those cities in the summer are NOT Americans -- many actually are Italians. And many of them ARE wearing shorts when the weather is HOT. Talk about a closed mind! |
By the way, I'm really surprised ThinGorjus that YOU vacation in Rome and Florence in August. That is not THE time to travel there. But apparently you do vacation there in August since you seem to be an expert on what the vacationing men there are wearing. Mind telling us what was the last year you spent in Rome in August?
Looking at fashion magazines and being on the streets of Rome during August when half the businesses are on vacation are two vastly different things. I speak from experience as I have been Italy during late June, July, or August three of the last four years. |
Sashie and Patrick, too true!!!!
Yes Sashie, you are absolutely correct. Italian men do live with their parents until they get married, and sometimes afterwards. I know. Have friends and family in Italy. Patrick, good point!!! How true. But just ignore posters that think they are "above" everyone else. Of course my last post on this subject got deleted because those that dish it out evidently can't take it back. |
<i>"Yes, Italian men do dress nicely. But do you realize that they spend so much of their money on clothes that they have to live with mama and papa."</i>
I think this statement is a misnomer. The housing crisis in Venice, Rome, and Florence has NOTHING to do with sons and daughters spending too much money on clothing. Italians refusal to rent to Italians is a serious subject in Italy. Foreign investors (vacation property purchases) have caused real estate prices to soar, making it impossible for many young folks to purchase near their families in the city centers. <i>"And not everyone can afford to shop at Bloomingdales and saks...however, Lands End makes some pretty nice things."</i> I think nice things (useful clothing items) can be found everywhere, even at Walmart. Buying an item from a specific store will not automatically give you an education in style. However, a photographic catalogue from Saks or Bloomingdales can offer wonderful styling ideas. Any smart shopper can study the images and apply other garments from other stores to the idea represented in the photo. It takes a little work but good, inexpensive results can be found. <i>"Yes, some people are fat, does that make them bad people?"</i> Why do certain people view any discussion of obesity as a "good person vs. bad person" judgment call? I suspect there's something deeper here that isn't being said. The fact is, for 99.9 % of the population, obesity is a choice. I know from personal experience how difficult it is for an overweight individual to find "comfort." Therefore, body shape and size is a crucial consideration when discussing "comfortable" fashion. I've never met a man or woman who complained about a well-cut pair of cotton or linen slacks. In fact, with slacks, the choice of shoe and sock is much easier and much more forgiving. With shorts, the shoe/sock choice is crucial and could prove detrimental to your feet in any popular city-center in Italy. My mother wore clothing like a mannequin but my father struggled in later years with a pot belly. He grew more and more unhappy with wearing a suit when the event called for one. When he was thin he could go to bed in a suit. When he grew obese, he couldn't wait to take it off. Eventually, he stopped going to special events. Most obese people carry a "size" issue with them. They won't purchase the correct size if it's a number they can't handle. They will often buy a size smaller to calm their panic or buy nothing. In the end, they never find true comfort or smart style because too many compromises have been made. Furthermore, most obese people truly believe they won't always be obese. The plan to diet is always there, waiting in the wings. If you "pretend" that a diet is imminent, why on earth would you go out and buy smart choices and spend money on clothes you won't be able to wear when you're thinner? "How much" to spend is directly related to "how long" you'll get to wear the garment. This quandary typically leads to a never ending cycle of denial. <i>"Not everyone cares about being "fashionable""</i> But I think everyone should care about developing their own sense of style. There are many benefits to looking good and making smart style choices. You'd be surprised how many more doors will open to attractive people. This is no secret. I understand not everyone aspires to be their "model" best, but there's a very good reason why the "American Idol" contestants leave the show looking completely different as compared to the day they auditioned. <i>"you two (thingorjus and nycfood snob) are really annoying"</i> I don't mind being called annoying. At least I know you've read what I've written and it affected you. But I do mind mean people who say stupid and worthless things. SashieZ, you're excused but everyone else should know where my finger points. |
can I just echo the thoughts re zip off trousers - ghastly and especially so when you see chaps zipping them off in public
wear shorts or v lightweight pants - you will see plenty of Italians on holiday doing the same. go for shorts and a shirt rather than tshirt |
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." ((b))
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And finding housing in NYC is easy? Young people are three and four in apartments in Manhattan.
It may be easy for you to be thin but it is extremely difficult for many. Food is an addiction, if it were easy everyone would look like you. And wouldn't the world be boring. you put too much emphasis on style - yes I think some people should learn to dress better... no matter what size... but in the long run- who cares? I dont think most Italians care what you wear. And you care way too much. I'm with budman!Wear shorts!! |
What is "middle age"?????
I follow my late father's definition that middle age is 50 - 75! |
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