PORTO (???) combine with Galicia??
 

I've just returned from my first visit to Lisbon and am already thinking of returning to explore more of the country. I'm curious about Porto, and wonder if those who have been there could post their opinions of the city, and how it compares to Lisbon. (I'm thinking of that thread about Lisbon from the poster who asked how it compares to other "major" european cities).

Has anyone combined a visit to northern Portugal with time in Galicia or Galicia and Asturias? What would be the best way to travel from Porto to destinations in those provinces?

I plan to do lots of reading, but just wanted to hear some opinions to stoke my enthusiasm. (or, to quell it, although I'm pretty certain that that will not occur!)

Hi eks. Just did this exact trip in September - 4 nights in Porto, 4 nights in Galicia (just outside of Santiago de Compostela), followed by a full week in Lisbon.

Porto was hands down our favorite portion of the trip, just a beautiful small city with lots to offer - great architecture, wonderful food and wine, fabulous riverfront area with some of the best people-watching anywhere. We did tear ourselves away from the city for a full day tour of the Douro valley and wineries - we were two couples with a private guide, and it was a wonderful day, eating and tasting both Port and table wines. We stopped in the very lovely town of Amarante on the way, a worthwhile visit.

We rented a car for the trip to Galicia, an easy two-hour drive. While we enjoyed our time there, it is not the Spain of Seville, Granada, or Barcelona. Santiago is a charming city, but we didn't find much of interest outside of the cathedral and the area immediately surrounding it. One full day is about all that is necessary to see the city, in my opinion. There are some very good traditional restaurants and Tapas places in two or three pedestrianized streets in the vicinity. We took some lovely drives along the coast, and the Rias are lovely, but the pace is a bit too slow for my liking. If we had it to do over again, we would have added an extra day or two to Porto and cut it from Galicia.

We loved our week in Lisbon, but Porto was definitely the great surprise of this trip for us.

If you want more detail, let me know.

Porto to me is an exceptionally old-looking city redolent of Europe years ago - port wine tours and churches galore stuffed with colorful azjuelo tiles.

Great base for day trips to Guimares and Braga- research those gems or the Duroro River Valley.

I took the train from Porto north to Santiago de Compestella- staying in some nice Portuguese town near the border and then took trains to San Sebastian, making several stops.

For lots on trains check www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com (check their online European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of rail itineraries in that section).

Again simply loved Porto - different than Lisbon by a lot (also liked Lisbon - but loved Porto.

I last visited Porto in 2004 and was not impressed. Maybe it has improved since then. I wrote at the time:

"When I first visited Spain and Portugal, back in 1970, with my then boyfriend, we flew into Porto, and it has always retained for me an aura of the exciting and exotic. Alas, returning was a mistake, as I found a reality that held few charms. The streets of steeply stacked houses climbing the cliff above the river proved not only hard work going up or down, but seedy as well. I wasn't sure whether to worry more about losing my footing or my purse.

Taking a violently swerving bus across one of the five bridges spanning the Douro, I saw the city differently - distance lent enchantment, or perhaps it was sunshine, or could it have been too much port? In any case, I enjoyed the pastel colors of the buildings (now mostly cafes and hotels) fronting the river and could forget the 211 steps plus unmeasured pavement it would take to reach the cathedral and train station from water level."

However, if you are a port lover (you are, aren't you?) you should definitely visit for the port caves (especially Taylor's). Even if you are not a port lover you should still visit the caves, as they may convert you. But visiting the Douro valley is also worthwhile.

I prefer Coimbra, but you can fly into Porto. On the other hand, you could then stay here: http://www.bussacopalace.com/

And you do know about the pousadas, right?

I preferred Leon to Santiago, but it's a bit further.

I stayed in Leon too and found it really neat. Santiago is a show - all the pilgrims give it a certain appeal for me but as a town not that great. Still it is so famous to go thru the area and not at least stop for a day would be a mistake for me at least.

We were in Porto in 2015 and enjoyed it very much. I would agree with the comments phillyboy wrote. Lisbon is more attractive and has more attractions & better restaurants. I don't recall any outstanding meals in Porto, but we may have missed some exceptional restaurants.

My favorite spot in Portugal was the Duoro Valley - it was lovely. We enjoyed a visit to a port house and had a fabulous lunch there. the train from Pinhao was a scenic, fun trip. We stayed a couple days in the DV and I coudl have stayed longer. Lots of great towns in Portugal including all the ones mentioned above.

We drove into Spain and spent a few days there. Again I would second phillyboy's comments.

Hi, ekscrunchy,

Porto is probably at about the level of "gritty" and "scruffy" that Lisbon was twenty years ago. And I think that for many people that's a lot of its charm. I think it was the NYT, but some major publication ranked the view across to Porto from up high in Gaia across the Douro as one of the best "built environment" views in the world. I agree it is really something. (as does thursdaysd)

Porto doesn't have a whole lot of sites to visit, at least not on the level of Lisbon, but there are many churches with beautiful tiles, one modern art museum, tiles in the train station, an old charming bookstore, etc. But for me the best part is just the walking around, poking your head in the little stores, catching snippets of life. If you are like my husband and go for museums above all else, you won't find a whole lot here (though my husband does like Porto!).

I strongly second PalenQ's recommendations of Guimaraes and Braga. Amarante is in the area and nice, too, though not as monumental as the other two. If you like prehistoric sites, there is an old Iron Age settlement excavated near Guimaraes that I thought was fascinating, Citania dos Breteiros (I may have the spelling off a bit). If you stay in Guimaraes, there is a very nice pousada a few kms outside of town in an old convent (NOT the in-town one which is much less special). And I would not go to Porto without spending at least two full days in the Douro Valley. Many nice places to stay (and some good restaurants for a foodie like you!).

Whether Galicia has enough to hold your attention depends on what you are interested in. Santiago and Lugo are two must-see places, IMO. If you want beaches, they have beautiful beaches (Playa de los CAtedrales is so popular they limit access in summer), pretty seaside towns like Betanzos and Pontedeume. La Coruna, probably the biggest city, is not my favorite place, but has a nice old core as does any Spanish city.

I have spent a lot of time in Asturias, so I'm probably biased, but I could easily plan a trip here for several weeks. Oviedo, the many (and I do mean many) beautiful coastal towns, and the beautiful Picos de Europa with mountain villages and wonderful views/hiking. I'm not sure how long your trip will be, but if it's two weeks, I would limit it to Galicia and Porto/northern Portugal. Then another two or three weeks for Asturias and Cantabria. :-).

If you can, get ahold of a copy of Penelope Casas' Discovering Spain (now out of print and out of date, but very extensive information on every region and almost every little town).

I would definitely want a car to do this trip, though not in Porto itself. And make sure your car rental company knows you are going into Spain from Portugal -- I have done that many times, but learned a couple of years ago that I would have had some coverage problems if anything had happened. So now I make sure to let the company know, and luckily I have not had a problem yet.

My mouth dropped open when the above poster described Porto as "gritty" and "scruffy." Not at all how I viewed Porto.

@yestravel - but it is how I found it, which is why I wondered if it had changed.

I was the one who used those terms, and they probably sound pretty condescending. I'm sorry about that. What I meant was that Porto doesn't have those "prettified" areas we see in so many European and US cities. Gentrification has not pushed out the "real people" (again, not sure how to say that without sounding condescending) from their old and in many cases substandard homes. BTW, I have seen a demographic map of central old town Porto, and a shocking percentage of the living quarters does not have the amenities most of us on this forum would expect in our own homes.

I stayed a year or so ago in the in-town Hotel da Bolsa. I think it is accurate to describe the street leading off to one side as "gritty." I never felt threatened or uneasy, which may differentiate "U.S. gritty" from "Porto gritty" but the level of upkeep of the buildings and the "vibe" of the street was what I would call gritty.

As an aside, I have just returned from a great trip to Sicily, and there are many sections of Palermo that remind me of Porto, come to think of it. We hoofed it all over that city, at least the old part. Just like in Porto, I never felt threatened, but the term "gritty" seems appropriate. I am not talking here about the main tourist or in-town sections, but the little pockets off the main streets where people live and the tourist trade has not yet arrived.

But in any case, whether we agree on the terms to use to describe it, I think we agree that Porto is a very wonderful place to visit.

Interesting comparison to Palermo. And yes, we agree, Porto is indeed a wonderful place to visit.

Thursday, from your description of Porto in 2004 from my perspective it has changed.

Ekscrunchy one of my favourite memories of Santiago de Compostela is having polpo (octopus) in the market. It's freshly boiled, cut into chunks, onto a plate with a good slurp of olive oil and a sprinkle of pimento picante. Served with a plastic glass of the local white. You can't get better than that.

We enjoyed the slow pace and fabulous fresh seafood in Galicia and Asturias. We felt the towns had a wonderful authentic feel and the beaches are gorgeous. Although the landscape is different it felt a bit like Puglia to me, good food, slower pace, beautiful drives.

So I think it depends what a person is looking for. There is no concentration of museums etc, but the culture is interesting.

Unfortunately never got to Portugal, but we travelled on to San Seb, which we loved.

My advice is smply keep to one area. Stay in North Portugal. Loads to see and do. Save Galicia and northern Spain for another time.

I was in Lisbon first in 1994, and I remember a lot of this discussion we're having about Porto being said about Lisbon then. Lisbon was not much of a tourist destination at that time, and I remember walking up to the castle wondering what I was doing there. There are parts of Lisbon that I would describe today as "gritty." Walk from the Praca do Comercio to the Santa Apolonia train station, or in the other direction to Cais de Sodre, or in the areas off Liberdade near Martim Moniz and weave in and out a bit and you will see what I mean. There is still a lot of substandard rundown housing, many abandoned buildings, but Lisbon is the darling of European weekend travelers. Porto has less of the tourism, and less of the prettification, but is also getting on the list of favored destinations. As more tourism comes, the revenues fund upgrades -- just compare the riverfront on the Porto side twenty years ago with what it looks like today, loaded with restaurants, hotels and cafes. I think everyone has to come up with their own adjectives to describe Porto, but the bottom line is that there are things to see and do and it is perfectly safe, at least IMO. Not even the pickpockets seem to have made it north from Lisbon to Porto yet.

We loved the long weekend we spent in Porto in March 2015. Lovely small city, great food, and friendly people.

You can see our pics here:
https://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]

I'm bowled over by the great responses here. I will return later (have to pick up my Japanese knives that I had sharpened; bought them at a yard sale!!) but want to mention that I have been to Santiago before so would not necessarily have to include that city in the Galicia portion. (Spent only one day/two nights there but did not see much else of Galicia; rented car in Santiago and drove along the north coast to Cudillero and then Cangas de Onis. The whole trip was just one week so did not do anything in depth. I've never been to Leon. (We did spent three nights in Burgos on this most rrecent trip, before Lisbon, and I was so surprised by how much I liked that city!)

I'll come back lateer with my map in front of me. Thanks a million for all the meaty reponses here so far..

For my second visit to Leon, see:

https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...n-got-popular/
https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...ons-cathedral/

ekscrunchy, maybe you will find this blog interesting:

http://ramaide.blogspot.com

The author always goes to one place for 336 hours. I have read his blog through many cities. The last one was Porto.

If you decide to stay in northern Portugal there is a lot to see. Besides the tips above, you could consider a visit to Ponte do Lima and the area around there. One of the most amazing markets I have ever been to is the Thursday market in Barcelos.

http://www.wanderingportugal.com/art...arcelos-market

Ekscrunchy, don't forget about reserving a place for lunch at Bodega El Capricho, where Grill Master José Gordón hangs out (www.bodegaelcapricho.com), if you're going to Leon.

(We did spent three nights in Burgos on this most rrecent trip, before Lisbon, and I was so surprised by how much I liked that city!)>

Well we just spent two nights there and could have been more - Burgos with its old wooden facades is so neat - went to some abbey or monastery there and loved it (and the stuffed they brewed up and sold on the sight).

I'll be following this thread with great interest since we plan to do something similar next year.

Ekscrunchy,
We spent six weeks in Portugal and N. Spain. We dropped off our rental car in Porto while visiting that city which we really enjoyed. Before turning the car in, we toured the Minho region and stayed in Guimares at the lovely Pousada. The rest of the trip was inspired by a desire to see Santiago de Compostela and the Basque region.
Our hotel in Porto, Infante de Sagres, arranged for a driver to take us over the border to get our Spanish rental car in Vigo, Galicia saving us a huge drop off charge.. I am traveling now for Thanksgiving so don't have my exact itinerary from that trip with me however can give you the highlights.
From Vigo we drove to Baiona-oceanfront Parador, beautiful, then O Grove in the rias biaxes, , Santiago de Compostela-Parador- we loved watching the pilgrims arriving in the plaza. Book far in advance to get a reservation at this parador, a former hospital for pilgrims built by Queen Isabel and King Ferdinand.
Leon-again in a beautiful parador. The cathedral with it's stained glass windows is highly recommended.
Then Ribadisella, Santiana del Mar, Bilbao, San Sebastian, Hondarribia and then into the French Basque villages in the Pyrenees, St-Jean de Luz. This trip also included the Pyrenees, Costa Brava and Barcelona. Lisbon to Barcelona, six weeks. Santiago de Compostela ranks as one of favorite travel memories. Time in the Minho region of Portugal plus Galicia,Asturias, Cantabria would be an interesting itinerary. It would be easy to extend to the Basque region too.

If you go to Porto, you might enjoy Rui Paula DOP Restaurant. We dined there two nights in a row on our Porto trip, and recognised others diners who had done the same.
https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/Restau..._Portugal.html

Vinum Restaurant at Graham's Port Lodge in Vila Nova de Gaia is a great place for lunch, with excellent views. We also enjoy our private tour of the winery, which was followed by a tasting of tawnies for me, and vintage ports for my husband. While Porto is known for its ports, it red wines can also be excellent. Graham's Chryseia was worth trying.
http://www.vinumatgrahams.com

Don't fail to do a Douro River Boat Cruise. We took the boat upriver and returned by train to São Bento Station to see its glorious azulejos.
https://lusitaniaexperience.pt/2016/...ized-azulejos/
If we were to return, we'd probably try to spend a night or two at one of the quintas overlooking the Douro.

You might enjoy the tiny gem of Livraria Lello, the bookstore that supposedly inspired J.K. Rowling to write her Harry Potter series. It's close to São Bento Station.
http://www.localporto.com/bookstore-...o-lello-irmao/

We also enjoyed the riverside ride on the #1 tram from Porto to Foz do Douro.
http://www.stcp.pt/en/tourism/porto-tram-city-tour/
http://www.travelandlifestylediaries...to-foz-do.html

Porto is known for its "francesinha." My husband had one, but it looked quite rich and I don't eat pork so I passed on this one.
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2...porto-portugal

We visited several riverside port lodges in Vila Nova de Gaia. Ramos Pinto was our favorite.

HappyT: I just might replicate your trip, but cut it down to three weeks maximum. Maybe fly home from San Sebastian. Good idea about having the driver take you over the border. What month did you travel? (I worry about the weather) I will wait to ask more questions when you return from the holidays.

PalenQ: I was surprised at how much I liked Burgos. The architecture, the river with the ducks, bordered by all those trees, the parks, the walkability, the friendliness of the people. Many people advised me to stay a maximum of two nights. But I now think three, or even four, would be ideal, and we did not even take the intended day trips to Lerma and Covarrubias that I had originally planned. So maybe four nights with a day for day trips would be best.

Robert: You KNOW that El Caprichio is on my list! this last trip was the first time I had sampled a txuleta, or beef in any quantity from Spain. I was bowled over!
(Of course, my first taste was at Etxebarri..not a bad place to begin!) What'
s more incredible is that when I planned our trip, I went over the restaurant plan with my partner, with the "warning" that the beef we would encounter would be served rare. The response was: "That's ok; I can eat something else. You know I did not llike that rare beef in Tuscany."

But when that txuleta appeared on the table, I had to fight to get my share! I'm not a steak connoisseur by any means but that meat sent me over the moon!! I so much wanted to sample more steak at Bar Nestor in San Sebastian, but we were just too stuffed all the time. Next time, for sure!!)

I went to Porto, parts of northern Portugal and Galicia all in one trip. I wanted to include Asturias, but I ran out of time. Although I loved Porto and would love to go back, I thought the food there was the worst of my trip (but the Port was great!). Most dispiriting of all was the tourist areas on both sides of the river (I forget wat the name of the sister town across the river is - Vila + Gaia? Nova? Sorry, too lazy to look it up). That is where all the port distilleries are, and like I said, the port is delicious. But the riverbank restaurants on both sides are the worst kind of tourist restaurants. The rest of Porto is really very poor, and people don't eat much in restaurants. Things might have gotten better -- I did try some recommended upscale restaurants and was unimpressed. But don't skip Porto, because it's just a fabulous "attic" stuffed with architectural treasures of a very unique sort.

Right outside of Porto there is wonderful food and wine in lots of small towns in and the Minho, but of course most of it is rustic and traditional, local recipes. There are probably fancy country restaurants, though, maybe even some with Michelin stars.

I found it is really easy to drive around Galicia and northern Portugal, and I went without a fixed plan. The traditional food in Galicia is out of this world, and the region is filled with beautiful small towns and beautiful sea views. One of my favorte towns was Pontevedra, but I also liked Lugo very much. I can't remember the names of all the towns I went to on the coast. There are still beach shacks that serve feasts of fresh fish at outdoor tables. Although I said it is easy to drive, it takes a loooooooooong time to drive on many of the roads. They are narrow and twisty and go over hill and dale. That's why I ran out of time.

I've looked high and low for a good guidebook to Galicia and to northern Portugal. Never found one, not even for Porto.

By the way, you probably already know, it rains a lot there. I had a lot of sunny weather, but was told I was lukcy.

Another idea on going from Porto to Galicia would be the train. Renfe trains leave Porto twice daily and take just over 2 hours to get to Vigo. Some of the trip is along the coast and quite scenic. We have done this twice, and found it easy and enjoyable. We have then picked up our rental car in Vigo for our tour of Galicia.

Our travels in Portugal started in Porto, included Santiago and ended in Lisbon. Click on my name to find the trip report.

"I was bowled over!" Now you know! El Caprichio serves oxen (buey), the best in the world! Enjoy!!!

Good food in Porto (as I think you're a foodie). You cannot find them advised elsewhere. Just trust me (or not)as i'm a local (and that's where we go):

the cheapest vision: restaurante tia aninhas: https://www.facebook.com/RestauranteTiaAninhas/

the not-so-cheap...: http://www.opaparico.com/

Enjoy (or not... you can choose those "frenchie" restaurants with a lot of michelin stars...")

Another one, for "carabineros" (these are hudge and not so flavour... please try "camarão da costa"... very small but really good!!!) - Lusíadas (that's the name of the restaurant). Not in Oporto, but in Matosinhos.

Hope you have a pleasant stay.

Helena

Some folks have a distinctive judgment on what they see and then makeup.

We traveled in June and early July.

Robert:

I just took out a new book on food in Spain; guess who has a chapter devoted to his restaurant outside León??? None other than José Gordón!




https://www.amazon.com/Grape-Olive-P...rape+olive+pig

For a little taste of that book, read this. http://roadsandkingdoms.com/2016/bar...f-the-seaside/

The best travel writing I've read in years, so many layers woven through the main story line on percebes.

"yestravel".......regarding Porto being described as "gritty" which I will find out in May as we travel to Guimaraes, Porto, and Ericeria, just an FYI: Although not the "expert" in European travel, well know travel author RICK STEVES in his most recent publication on Portugal opens the chapter on Porto with the following description "Porto has a gritty character, warts and all". Just saying.....

Eks

Have been to northern Portugal a few times but have spent considerably time in Galicia and as late as this October. If you want details please ask.

One of the best guides on Northern Spain is Cadogan. They are simply boring to read but accurate with a great deal of information.

"Porto has a gritty character, warts and all">

this is one reason I loved Porto - not all gussied up but like European towns looked decades ago - I would not say seedy but yes gritty - old buildings not modernized - just loved it- the Naples of Portugal to me!

Porto has beautiful, beautiful, unique architecture, much of it Art Nouveau and decorated with exceptional tile work. One of its joys is that it has not been renovated, so while you occasionally find a builiding crying out for a savior, you also will find street after street of surprising fascination if you just go even a little bit off the beaten track.

"Gritty" in travel books is often a euphemism for "poor." There is true poverty in Porto. Many natives who could afford it have left the old, steep neighborhoods and relocated to the other river bank, which has more modern apartments and amenities. There is also more work over there, and small businesses. So the people left behind in the oldest parts of Porto very often have very little, and they don't get much from the tourist trade, which bunches up in certain small parts of town but not others. There are parts of Porto that are very reminiscent of how Venice looked before zillion-bazillions of tourists invaded every blessed corner. Venice was an impoverished place, losing population, with lots of very shabby corners with barely any plumbing and the places to eat could not have been more utllitarian and cheap and unrefined. So much was threadbare.

There are now richer and renovated parts of Porto, all of it fascinating, but so are the parts that haven't been commercialized to attract tourists.

I'm back again with a question:

Is O"Grove a town that should be visited? There seem to be some good eating places there and it looks pretty. But I've not read of many here staying there...

I'm trying to formulate a vague itinerary of Galicia, with Leon and Porto, and am having trouble deciding upon which towns in Galicia to include. As I mentioned above, Santiago is not a must since I've been there twice. Trying to plan a route that does not require huge amounts of driving but could still include Leon and probably Porto..

The coastal scenery around O Grove is simply wonderful and no doubt if you find the right places to eat, the food would be spectacular. I have no recollection of visiting O Grove itself, but I many not have passed through it. The towns in that beautiful part of Galicia are in my recollection very small. I'm not sure what would be the draw of the towns. For me the draw is the lovely scenery all around the wonderfully named Ria de Arousa and the downhome low key restaurants you stumble across around there. Maybe there is one in O Grove.

For me, the memorable towns in Galicia for architectural treasure were Tuy (Tui), Pontevedra and Lugo. There is also a stunning small crypt outside of Lugo that is well worth a stop of you have an interest (and are driving).

http://european-heritage.org/spain/l...%B3veda/galego

Generally speaking, I loved all the dramatic coastal scenery that I saw in Galicia but didn't like the town of Finesterre and saw nothing of the Bay of Biscay. Were I going back, I would want to spend more time around the coastal area which contains O Grove, and I would probably enjoy spending many nights in Pontevedra, because it has great evening scene, with seemingly everybody in the streets.

Massimop: That is extremely helpful and I thank you. I'm mainly interested in having a few bases from which to explore the scenery and places to eat nearby.
since my partner does all of the driving, I do not want to have him drive more than a couple of hours per day, thus the desire to have perhaps 2 or 3 Galician bases, in addition to Leon and probably Porto. It looks at first glance that we will concentrate on the southern part of Galicia, from Tuy to Pontevedra/O Grove.
I love the idea of the evening scene in Pontevedra.

So perhaps base in O Grove, Pontevedra city, and one more place (??)