Please suggest best itinerary
 

Hi, we are a family of 4. Our booking is as follows:
Arriving 23 Dec- flight Mumbai - Paris CDG, onward train to Brussels (cost included in the ticket).
Dep. 4th Jan - Train from Brussels to Amsterdam, onward Flight Amsterdam to Mumbai.
During these days, we plan to see
Paris 3 days
Venice 2 days
Barcelona 2 days
Rome 2 days
Berlin/Koeln 1 day.
Amsterdam 1 day
We have 12 days at our disposal. We are ready to travel in the night.
To save on travel cost, we have option to fly by Easyjet, or by night train.
We can skip train trains to and from Brussels and drop Brussels visit. We can also drop Barcelona if it becomes too tight a schedule.
Please suggest a best route, so that our Christman and New year is memorable.
Thanks in advance!

Some things do not make sense:

Why go to Brussels on the 23rd when it is not included in your wish list?

Why Brussels on Jan. 4th.? Where do you think you will be on Jan. 3? If Paris, just go directly to Amsterdam.

Drop Barcelona. Drop Berlin/Köln. Go to Munich instead, as it is on the night train routes between Rome and Amsterdam.

http://www.eurail.com/europe-by-trai...ity-night-line

So sorry, you do NOT have 12 days, but only 11 (not counting day of arrival - Dec. 23 - or day of departure - Jan. 4. So sorry, your plan does not account for time consumed in (1) packing bags, (2) checking out of Hotel #1, (3) traveling to train/plane/bus, (4) time traveling to next destination, (5) time consumed retrieving baggage, (6) time spent traveling to Hotel #2, (7) time checking into Hotel #2. I strongly recommend you lay out your plan in the following format. I hope you will see that your plan is WAY, WAY too ambitious.

Day 1 Leave Mumbai, arrive Paris
Day 2 Explore Paris
Day 3 Explore Paris
Day 4 Leave Paris at ____o'clock via train; arrive Amsterdam at 2:00 p.m.
Day 5 Explore Amsterdam
Day 6 Leave Amsterdam via 9:00 train for Berlin; explore Berlin
Day 7: Leave Berlin via Easyjet (?); arrive Venice
Day 8: Explore Venice; leave Venice via plane/train; arr. Rome
Day 9: Explore Rome
Day 10:Leave Rome, arrive Barcelona
Day 11 Explore Barcelona
Day 12 Return to CDG for return to Mumbai.

If you wish to see train stations and airports, it's a great plan. If you wish to see/experience what Europe has to offer, reduce your trip to three stops MAXIMUM. That would be Paris plus 2 others.

If it is not too late, purchase a "multi-city" airplane ticket so you can return to Mumbai from Rome or Barcelona, rather than having to travel back to CDG for the trip home.

Less is more.

Yes, I agree, you don't have the amount of time you think you have. It takes three nights in a place just to get two full days. Each time you change locations it will eat up at least half a day. As zorro says, choose a maximum of three cities.

My suggestion to improve your itinerary, maximise your enjoyment of your trip, and to save money, would be to decrease the number of destinations. I think you're mostly going to be seeing airports, train stations, and the inside of airplanes and trains. In 12 days, I would go to one destination, possibly two. Since you've booked flights into Paris and out of Amsterdam, there's your itinerary!

Is your flight already booked into Paris and out of Amsterdam?
If so, can it be changed?
If not, wait to book until your itinerary is set.

Your current itinerary does not work at all. Europe is bigger and more spread out than you seem to think. Look at a good map. Do not plan routes that crisis cross.

Choose the three places you are most interested in seeing. Drop the rest.
If you are stuck with into Paris, out of Amsterdam,
Day 1, depart Mumbai, arrive Paris
Day 2, Paris
Day 3, Paris
Day 4, Paris
Day 5, fly to Venice
Day 6, Venice
Day 7, train to Rome
Day 8, Rome
Day 9, Rome
Day 10, afternoon flight to Amsterdam
Day 11, Amsterdam
Day 12, fly home.

That really short changes Rome, but if you have to go through Amsterdam, might as well have a day there.

Absolutely no time for anyplace else!!!

To save on travel cost, we have option to fly by Easyjet, or by night train>

For lots of stuff on trains and night trains check www.seat61.com- great info on discounted tickets if you book months in advance to guarantee them; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Possible night trains for you:

Berlin to Amsterdam
Rome to Germany - Munich
Venice to Paris or v.v.

Agree with KyraS, but you could also spend a day or two in Brussels and visit Ghent or Bruges from there. To see more than Paris, a little of Flanders, and Amsterdam would be in effect to see nothing and spend your entire vacation in planes and trains.

Sorry, but it sounds horrible. An entire vacation in train stations and aiports. Ugh. When I travel, I want to actually SEE things and BE in places.

Why don't you just abandon the idea of floating all over the European Continent and go to one or two places and enjoy the holiday season there? It's winter. It's the holiday season. Things are going to be closed. It's dark by 5 pm. Just go to London or Paris and call it a day.

I would revise the itinerary as follows:

Paris 3 days
fly to Venice
Venice 2 days
train to Rome
Rome 3 days
train overnight to Munich
day in Munich
overnight train to Amsterdam

That might give you a full day in Munich and a full day in Amsterdam before the flight home.

Crowded, not my style, but then I do not know what your interests are or how you generally travel. I have an acquaintance who has spent 1 day in Istanbul and considers that sufficient. For her, the day excursions offered by cruises are more than enough.

I'm not sure that there will even BE any night train from Rome at that point. That whole night train thing is in flux.

also: nighttrains: horrible traveling, no sleep, so that "saves a night in a hotel" is really an illusion

bad plan in the middle of winter and hi-festival time, not good.

I'd do Sassafrass's trip

Dear Michael, Thanks!
I liked your suggestion on itinerary
Paris 3 days
fly to Venice
Venice 2 days
train to Rome
Rome 3 days
train overnight to Munich
day in Munich
overnight train to Amsterdam
I would now explore the best train/air connections.

<i>horrible traveling, no sleep, so that "saves a night in a hotel" is really an illusion</i>

I remember quite a few students who did that when Eurail passes were cheap.

train overnight to Munich
day in Munich
overnight train to Amsterdam

Nooooo :-)

If the overnight train is not available, then just fly from Rome to Amsterdam.

Angel1, whatever places you choose that work for your interests are good. No quibbling about that. However, you always need 2 nights in a place to net 1 whole day, 3 nights to net 2 days, etc. Do not count all those days in Venice and Rome as whole days there. Getting from hotel in Paris to the airport, security and waiting for flight, flight, time getting to hotel in Venice, will eat up about 1/2 day, leaving 1 & 1/2 days in Venice. The same will be true taking the train from Venice to Rome, so you will not have 3 days in Rome. You will have 2 & 1/2 days. That is no problem as long as you know that is all you have and not thinking it will be more. It won't be. You are also adding another place back into the mix.

Personally, there is no way I would take 2 night trains back to back like that, especially in winter with kids, unless I was just going for the fun of riding on trains.

If it is at all possible to change your flight out of Amsterdam to departing from Rome, do that so you have more sightseeing time and less travel time.

BTW, you may have unusually warm weather, but it is more likely to be cold and rainy part of the time, so be sure to have warm clothing and rain gear.

<< ...unless I was just going for the fun of riding on trains.>>

But it's NOT fun riding on trains at night, especially with kids. You can't see anything, it's uncomfortable, and you end up arriving at your destination as a wiped-out mess. And then...what? You park your luggage (that alone is an experience if you don't speak the local language and have to read instructions for putting your bags into lockers) and take your cranky kids into Munich (do you even know how to get around Munich? Do you speak German?) for the day, try to wake them up and drag them around the city all day, and then repeat the whole horrible experience again getting from Munich to Amsterdam and doing the same exhausting routine in a brand-new city with another language and so forth? My kids would have considered this child abuse.

StCirg, that is exactly what I was trying to indicate, but in a round about way. Better to be direct as you were. Hope the OP gets the message clearly this time.

Another note for the OP. Your trip is so rushed, it depends on everything going perfectly, and it mostly does. However, With international flights in play, I would never risk arriving in the departure city the same day as the flight out, even in Summer, but especially in winter. If the international departure flight is delayed, that is one thing, but if it goes and you have been delayed somewhere before then, you are stuck.

A few years back, my flight in Europe, in winter, was actually re-routed to an airport about five hours from my destination airport. I had to overnight there. Luckily, I wasn't connecting.

Well, sassafrass, no one ever accused me of not being direct:)

It's just a badly planned trip, no doubt about it.

True. You are direct and that is a compliment. Also, a good lesson!
Don't beat around the bush so much that my advice is taken only as a suggestion.

< If the international departure flight is delayed, that is one thing, but if it goes and you have been delayed somewhere before then, you are stuck. >

In fact you will have to buy new tickets, exorbitantly priced last minute ones. For the next flight that has seats. Meanwhile you'll have to pay for a hotel room for extra nights.

Another thing to consider when moving to each new destination is the time to find your way to your hotel and around town. It's harder to get oriented when it's dark 15 or 16 hours out of every day.

Thank you all! Just consider, we 4 are, me, my husband, my son and my daughter-in-law. All adults. We enjoy doing rush travels and being in any city more than 3 days is boring for us. I have done such a trip earlier with easyjet flights and it went all well. I speak good German. We got dirt cheap return flight Mumbai-Brussels, with above itinerary. Actually I tried to get return flight from Rome or even Athens, but was expensive. Even return flights from Paris were costlier than the one which I got. My challenge here is to have best connections with lowest travel costs. In terms of Rupee, Euro is too expensive for us, and considering Christmas time, the prices would go up. Hence I would like to take advantage of advance time, so that we enjoy being in Europe on two big occasions i.e. Christmas and New Year. Once Itinerary is finalised, I would do hotels bookings in advance and then all set to travel the great part of the world. Do give your suggestions on where to be on New Year, Rome or Venice. It will definitely help.

So your flights are actually arriving and departing from Brussels?
They are Mumbai to Brussels and Brussels to Mumbai? Is that correct?

Before, it looked like your flights arrived in Paris and departed from Amsterdam. That is not correct then?

Sorry that it is still not absolutely clear to me. I must be missing something. Exact date, time and airport would be helpful.

Rome

Ticket is Mumbai to Brussels and back.
Deep Mumbai to cdg Paris and then train to Brussels.
Return is again train from Brussels to Amsterdam and then onward flight to Mumbai.
The train travel we can skip.

Ticket is Mumbai to Brussels and back.
Deep Mumbai to cdg Paris and then train to Brussels.
Return is again train from Brussels to Amsterdam and then onward flight to Mumbai.
The train travel we can skip. It was complimentary.

Well then, definitely skip the trains beginning and end. Waste of time and makes absolutely no sense unless you were visiting Brussels or other towns nearby.

It is very strange they would add on a train to Brussels if you had no intention of spending time there.

Now, for certainty, the itinerary I gave you is good and is what I, personally, would do to see a bit of Italy.

Forget night trains. Forget another place like Munich.

The fact is Paris and Amsterdam are both set. If you want to do something else in between, fine, but no more than two cities or towns. You could also do one bigger town/city with perhaps a day trip.

Possibilities
Stick with Venice and Rome, or Rome first followed by Venice, depending on flights.
Fly from Paris to Barcelona (Barcelona and a day trip) and on to Amsterdam.
Train to London and on to Amsterdam.
Munich and a few days in Germany. Spend the whole time there.
Belgium (Brussels, Bruges, Ghent, etc.) You would use your train tickets then.
Tour of the Netherlands - many beautiful and charming towns very near Amsterdam.

How about:
23,24,25 Paris
26 Paris Barcelona Evening flight
26,27,28 Barcelona
28 Barcelona - Naples Evening flight - Train from Naples to Rome.
28 night reach Rome.
29, 30 in Rome
30 Night train to Venice
31, 1 Stay at Venice
2 Eve. flight to Amsterdam
3 in Amsterdam
4 Departure to Mumbai

No. You are adding another place again. Barcelona was instead of Rome and Venice, not in addition to them, or with Rome, but cutting out Venice.

If you left Paris on the evening of the 26th, you can't then count it as Barcelona.

A flight from Barcelona to Naples, then a train to Rome? That would be several hours travel time. Hotel in Barcelona to airport, time through security, flight, taxi or bus to train station in Naples, train to Rome, taxi to hotel in Rome - crazy. If you were doing Barcelona and Rome, you would want to fly directly to Rome and skip Venice.

Venice is not far enough from Rome to justify a night train, just no point. Take the fast train instead.

OK, end of my advice.

There's a "night train" between Rome and Venice? I thought it was only about a 5 hour train ride?

Yes there is a night train Rome to Venice - lv Rome about 10:30pm, arrive Venice 5:30 am or so - so not very convenient because of early arrival time.

Those night trains stop everywhere so are slower than day trains - but in this case I'd suggest the day train - no great scenery but you do see typical Italian countryside.

You just can't resist adding another destination, even though we have all told you it's a bad idea.

Working from the most recent itinerary you have posted I have made some changes to make it more realistic:

arrive Brussels, train to Paris same day (I'm not sure if this is the 22 or 23)
24,25,26 Paris
27 Paris Rome Evening flight
28,29,30 Rome/Naples
30 Night train to Venice
31,1,2 Stay at Venice
3 flight to Brussels
4 Departure to Mumbai

Kathie, I think it has been so crazy with the extra train travel that it wasn't clear.
The OP finally clarified it.
The OP is not arriving or departing from Brussels.

His flights from/to Mumbai are actually arriving into Paris and departing from Amsterdam. He has to start in Paris and he has to go to Amsterdam at the end.

Brussels came into the picture because somehow his agent included "free?" train tickets "from" Paris "to" Brussels at the beginning of the trip, and "from" Brussels "to" Amsterdam at the end. Unless the OP is visiting Belgium, those tickets are useless. Since they are part of the package, however, I hope if the first one is not used, it doesn't negate the rest of the tickets.

A night train arriving in the early morning darkness in winter, way to early to check into a hotel, is not a good plan. Rather than arrive in Venice so early on a night train, catch an early morning, super fast train that takes 3 hours and 7 minutes to Venice, or the next fastest, 3 hours and 45 minutes.

Yup getting into Venice on a night train at 5:30 am - what do you do - sleep on a station bench? I suppose the station caffe opens early so you could have breakfast but I guess you could throw your bags in the left luggage there and start exploring - NOT.

Sassafrass, thanks for the correction. I was responding to
"Ticket is Mumbai to Brussels and back.
Deep Mumbai to cdg Paris and then train to Brussels.
Return is again train from Brussels to Amsterdam and then onward flight to Mumbai."

Only by re-reading the whole thread again did I finally "get" the "free" rail tickets.

One piece of advice - I wouldn't use that travel agent again!

Glad you guys figured it out. I lost the trail at "Deep Mumbai..." I did understand the "complimentary" train tickets, but I do have to wonder if that's even real. Never heard of a travel agent being able to manage that (without jacking up the overall price of the trip of course).

Maybe all the recent internet exposure will get back to these Indian travel agents who make a total hash out of traveling in Europe. There seem to be so many.

<i>Only by re-reading the whole thread again did I finally "get" the "free" rail tickets.</i>

That was included in the original posting. That's why, according to the OP's wish list, the trip to Brussels at the beginning did not make sense.

just joining in to see how this one pans out.