Please suggest a base North Italy....
 

Having read this forum I decided to visit North Italy this Easter. Our flight arrives in Bergamo and given that propably all sites will be closed until monday I plan to use this time visiting Lake Como, Maggiore & Orta. Then the plan to visit Bergamo, Cremona & Brescia before going east towards Lake Garda, Mantova, Pantova & Parma. Could you recommend a base for each leg? We will have a car, no kids I was thinking of Como,Bergamo and Mantova. We would prefer historic towns to nature if we were to choose.
Many thanks

Because of its location and beauty, I prefer Bellagio over Como. Bergamo and Mantova sound good.

The actual town of Como is not very compelling. I would stay in Bellagio given that it's very nice and you can take the ferry to get there.

First of all, where do you think the sites will be closed on Sunday? Which town? Also, it is the Monday after Easter that is the Italian national holiday, which means that sites are likely to be closed that day (and perhaps not on Sunday). If the weather is nice, many Italians will be using the long weekend to travel. So you need to make car and hotel reservations immediately if you haven't done so already.

It's not clear from your post if you intend to try to visit 3 lakes (Como, Maggiore & Orta) in one day. And over what perioed of time do you want to see Garda, Mantova, etc.?

Lago di Garda is a very large lake whose northern half is more scenic that its southern half.

I have never been in the lakes region so early in the season. You might look on the web for some 10 day weather forecasts for that region.

It is possible that by heading toward Venice and Treviso you would find the mildest weather.

Another vote for Bellagio...
It is a beautiful area with little towns to explore....

That is real early for the lakes--you may want to consider the temps for that time of year. If you start in Bergamo, and have a car, I would base in Varenna for lago Como. The other 2 lakes NW of Milan are a good drive from there--how much time do you have?
Why not base in Verona for your eastern leg?

I agree the Bobthenavigator about the lakes. In particular, you might find that most hotels in the mid-Lake Como area are not yet open for the season. Although you can always find an open hotel somewhere in Menaggio or Varenna, things are not in full swing and for good reason.

thank you all for your replies. I have made car arrangements but I have not booked any hotel given that apart from 4 days in Veneto(second leg) I have not decided where to spend the Easter Holidays. the plan was to visits the como/maggiore lakes was based on the assumption that everywhere else the sites would be closed. If that is not the case then I could spend these 4 days(Fri-Mon)somewhere else where the weather would milder, an area rich in sites and if possible with some Easter traditions to enjoy. Any sugegstions?

Making Bellagio, Bergamo and Mantova your three bases seems the best choice. In any case, as the others have already said, Bellagio is preferable to Como; and Mantova is highly preferable to Verona, cause as beautiful as Verona is, it doesn't have Mantova's atmosphere, that of a wealthy, satisfied, totally unspoiled, non-touristy and extraordinarily pretty town - Mantova is one of my favourite places in northern Italy, and it's hard to imagine anyone couldn't fall in love with it. Btw, Mantova's cuisine is totally independent from the rest of Italy, and it's absolutely outstanding - don't miss the Osteria Vecchia Mantova (behind the Duomo and opposite the ducal palace), that's one of the best restaurants I know all over Italy! The (justly) most famous local dish is Tortelli di zucca, i.e. ravioli stuffed with pumpkin, though you'd perhaps never guess it was pumpkin, thanks to the highly inventive seasoning - one of the greatest achievements of Italian cuisine, and almost unknown anywhere outside Mantova!
Bergamo is nice, the Lower Town busy and not too attractive, the Upper Town historic, beautiful and not too lively, in fact, a bit like an open-air museum, but certainly beautiful. If you happen to be interested in Italy's modern history, too, you might consider staying in Brescia instead of Bergamo - that's one of the centres of Fascist architecture in Italy, and of the three main squares, the third was one of the large-scale representative projects of the Mussolini regime. Fascist architecture of the thoroughly oppressive, dismal kind, not exactly a pleasant experience, but an adequate way to confront yourself with the dark side of Italy's recent history.

However superior Mantova, you are well advised to visit Verona, which doesn't appear on your original list, if you are interested in art, architecture and history. You can skip the Romeo-and-Juliet mythology, but the Roman arena and the art museum are both top notch, and the town also has several wonderful churches.

Franco,
It's a pleasure to read your description of Mantova. I stayed in Verona for 1 week last October and took a daytrip to Mantova. It was a fantastic trip, and I vowed to go back for a longer stay, to experience the atmosphere for some days and do a few daytrips from there. I had an absoulutely marvellous pumpkin cake at the restaurant inside the Palazzo Ducale (I hadn't wanted to leave the palazzo for lunch in the middle of my tour). Your words describe my exact feelings towards Mantova. Wonderful writing!

Also, I've never Bergamo because it never sounded very appealing, and if you are not very interested in Fascist architecture, you might not want to devote a lot of time to Brescia. I don't know if you are still interested in seeing Maggiore and Orta, but you might consider basing yourselves in Stresa or Baveno on Lago Maggiore, from which you could easily take in the Borromean Islands, Orta and make a day trip to Milan.

Then you could base yourself on Lago di Garda (with its many historic towns) and visit Verona (which definitely fits your description of an historic town), or vice versa given the weather. Then your last leg.

I've never been to Cremona, but no doubt you can logically squeze it in.

(oooooo, wait, I better add that even though Bergamo hasn't drawn me yet, I'm not suggesting you skip it. Franco's description is one of the nicest I've read)

We just got back from Lake Como and the weather was just fine--a bit cool but not a problem with proper clothing. We stayed in Varenna because of the close proximity to the train station since we were train dependent on this trip. I would stay in Bellagio for a return trip to Lake Como. Milan was quite chilly and rainy on Sunday--the coldest weather of our two week trip. Enjoy!

No doubt that Verona is great and worth visiting, I fully agree (I was just talking about which towns to make your "home base"). Btw, the best thing about the art museum is not the art (though I don't say it's bad) but the museum - inside the medieval Castello Sforzesco, the museum was designed and arranged by Carlo Scarpa, one of Italy's (few) really great 20th-century architects. That's a stunning piece of museum architecture, it's so intriguing (and yet in such an unobtrusive way) that they could display breadcrumbs and empty rolls of toilet paper, and the museum would still fascinate everybody, only thanks to Scarpa's ingenious interior design...
Cremona has a notable historic center with two gorgeous gothic palaces/town halls (the town was split in two hostile municipalities at that time). Outside, it's a grim industrial town like many others in Emilia-Romagna (Parma, e.g. - much of that region is best traveled with closed eyes between the historic centers, which are almost all wonderful).

oooooops - Castello Scaligero, not Sforzesco, of course, excuse me!

I'll never learn to use the "preview" function - there's a second mistake: please make it "like many towns in Emilia-Romagna, AS WELL" (since Cremona is obviously still in Lombardy). I guess I need my shot of Italian espresso before I continue posting...

Absolutely agree, Franco, on what makes a visit to what I would have called the Castelvecchio in Verona so worthwhile -- but it really is a stunning architectural achievement. I think the best of the museum's art collection is all "up front" in the museum, so I often tell people who are not big museum lovers (like I am) that 45 minutes in the castello-museum will be a wonderful experience and then they can decamp to enjoy strolling along the Adige.

Ok, since I've had my espresso in the meantime, let's make this become the perfect guide to Northern Italy ;) - what is most often called, as you've put it, nessundorma, Castelvecchio in Verona ("Old Castle"), is actually a Castello scaligero - a castle built by the noble Scaligeri family, like the one in Sirmione on Lake Garda. See this link e.g.: http://www.intesys.it/Tour/Ita/VeronaScaligera.html

thanks for your replies. I have made up my mind to spend all the week between Veneto&emilia romana. Would it be advisable to be based in one city or spend 3 days in Verona and 3 days in Mantova. Is there any place(as I said earlier history/architecture is what I am after) besides the highlights of the area(padova, bologna,Sirmione,Bassano)that I should definitely include in the itinerary? In total I will have 7 full days. P.S. How long will it take for Mantova to Linate airport on weekday morning?

sorry a final question...is there a village/town in that area where they have some Easter festivities?

alexous - among the highlights of the area, I wouldn't include Sirmione (it closely resembles a Hollywood setting for a medieval town). On the other hand, Vicenza is missing from your list, which is certainly a highlight even among the highlights - two of Palladio's main works to be found there, the Basilica and the Rotonda, some of the greatest Renaissance architecture on this planet. I also suggest to include some of Palladio's rural aristocratic villas, certainly belonging to the main sights of the Veneto: Villa Barbaro in Maser boasts, in addition to Palladio's architecture, Veronese's best frescoes; other top choices would be the famous "Villa Malcontenta", actually Villa Foscari IN Malcontenta; Villa Badoer in Fratta Polesine; Villa Cornaro in Piombino Dese, nothing far from each other. Some research is necessary, however, as to opening hours - almost all of the villas are still in private possession and in fact inhabited by the owners, so they're usually open one or two half-days a week only!
When being in Bassano del Grappa (btw, excellent choice, few people go there!), don't miss nearby Asolo, which is also a marvellous historic town/village (and near Asolo, there is Carlo Scarpa's main work: the Tomba Brion in San Vito di Altivole, a private, but open to the public part of the cemetery of that village - I know, that's not historic, but I still hope to convince you that Scarpa is as good as any famous Renaissance or Baroque architect). Extraordinarily charming, atmospherically kind of a pocket-Mantova, but architectonically partly belonging to the Middle Ages (being surrounded by a completely preserved set of impressive walls) is Montagnana, a few miles west of Padova. Here, one more culinary highlight: "Il Palio", a trattoria which is another of my favourites - they don't seem to know themselves HOW good their kitchen is (ordering pizza there, like even many of the locals do, would be a heavy sin).
And of course, from Bologna, it would be a pity not to go to Ravenna, whose late Roman/early Byzantine mosaiques are among the very best Italy has to offer.

franco,

I am glad to see you mention Vicenza as that has been our northern Italy base for the past five years...we spend five days there and day trip to many of the towns you have mentioned...it is not quaint and charming, but very central and the Palladian architecture is amazing....we have been everywhere from Venice to the east, Bassano and Asolo to the north, Verona to the west, and now, as you recommend,we will see Mantova to the south...and everything in between!! It is a good place to situate yourself...

Yes, Traviata, of course you're right, and unfortunately so - Vicenza is not TOO charming, and it was surprisingly difficult to get a decent meal whenever I've been there. But the Palladian works make up for everything... Padova, btw, is even less charming, and nevertheless worth a visit due to the sights (first of all, the Cappella degli Scrovegni, of course). I use to base myself in Montagnana when being in the area, but admittedly, re: traffic and getting around, it's not half as good as Vicenza (but this IS a charming town, and then, there is the "Palio" trattoria...).
For insiders like you, Traviata, who seems to go there regularly, I have some more hints - alexous will certainly allow it, since he/she might take advantage of them, too. One of my best-loved sights in the Veneto is to be found in S. Giorgio, a peaceful small village in the hills/mountains north of Verona: a church going back to the 8th century (it's unclear how much of that original church is still preserved in the present building, which seems to have been remodeled in the 11th or 12th centuries - still old enough, I guess!), and an incredibly charming adjacent cloister, presumably from the 10th century.
Bardolino on Lake Garda, famous/infamous for its (not always pleasant) red wines, has two wonderful rustic churches, one Romanesque, but the other Carolingian, i.e. from the 9th century!
More Palladian villas are to be found in Lonedo di Lugo (Villa Godi and Villa Piovene, one opposite the other) and near Fanzolo (Villa Emo). An example of a baroque villa (in fact, rather a palace) is Villa Pisani "la Nazionale" in Stra, on the Brenta canal, near Padova; the palace is nothing really special, but it's terrific fun to get lost in the restored baroque labyrinth that they've laid out in the garden. (It's really difficult to get in, and out! I think I've spent more than half an hour in there.)

franco,

We were fortunate enough to see the interior of Villa Barbaro in October...the frescos were LOVELY..and have wandered the grounds of La Rotunda since the interior is ever closed when we are there..this fall, we will try for Villa Emo, but the one I most long to see is Villa Foscari, La Malcontenta...the name alone is so haunting...I am trying to gather information about a Brenta River cruise, but it is difficult so late in the season....

Back to Vicenza..I have memories of wandering the streets and seeing building after building by Palladio, but many streets were so narrow that it wasn't possible to step back far enough to have any perspective...I guess this is when "God is in the details"...

San Giorgio sounds wonderful....I started off adding days to the fall trip, now I am looking at weeks!! How to see it all????

I know I saw the interior of the Villa Rotonda in October, and according to this site, it is open into November on Wednesday mornings and afternoons.

http://www.cisapalladio.org/veneto/s...7&lingua=e

If you want to see La Malcontenta, I think you can do it better by bus than by taking the Brenta boats. It's only open two mornings a week:

http://www.cisapalladio.org/veneto/s...3&lingua=e

P.S. Not that I found the interior of the Villa Rotonda that great. It was decorated quite a bit after being built in an overblown Baroque style that does not meld at all well with Palladio's Renaissance humanism.

Eloise,

You are right...Rotunda has been open at various times in the fall...just never the days we were close by, and once, when we tried so hard to be there at the right hour, it was closed anyway.......!! I think Malcontenta is a dedicated trip, off the beaten track a bit....but I am going to try for it in the fall...Thank you for the links..I'll study them...

By the way, what was your impression of the interior of Rotunda?? It looked a bit spartan when we looked in the windows...Barbaro was beautifully painted and you could look into the private family quarters...and WHAT quarters they were!!!

P.P.S. But the Villa Valmarana ai Nani, just a few hundred steps from the Villa Rotonda, has some lovely frescoes by Domenico Tiepolo (son of the better-known Gianbattista) in the "foresteria" and, if you ask very politely, old Count Valmarana - if he's still alive - will also let you see the frescoes in the main building.
Neither the villa nor the guest house is by Palladio.

Eloise,

We tried to enter Villa Valmarana, but could not find a living person anywhere around.....What is the preferred method of "rousing" anyone??? Do you ring a bell ?? We parked on the narrow street in front and walked all around, but gave up...but we'll try again...if for nothing else, just the chance to see the old Count!

Traviata,

I probably posted at the same time as you did with my impression of the interior of the Villa Rotonda. What I said applies only to the sala, the round main hall. The other rooms, which are much smaller, are decorated in a much more restrained style, if at all. And there is no furniture that I can recall. And yes, the Villa Barbaro is quite splendid. But don't forget, it's owned by an extremely wealthy family, whereas I think the Villa Rotonda still belongs to an impoverished Venetian nobleman. As, incidentally, does La Malcontenta. The owner is a Foscari and earns a living by teaching at the university in Venice, I have been told.

Eloise,

Yes, we posted together....I was told that a professor at the University of Virginia owned Rotunda...(he must have independent income..) What we saw was mostly empty of furnishings, but limited, through the windows....tell me more about the old Count..I am determined to get to Valmarana now..

When I visited Villa Valmarana ai Nani, there was a young man sitting at a table outside the building. There was no entry fee to the foresteris that I can remember, but I bought a postcard or two from the young man, one of which showed one of the frescoes in the main building. So I said to the young man how fascinated I was by Domenico's (or is it Giandomenico?) frescoes - have you seen the ones in the Ca Rezzonico in Venice? - and how much I would love to see the one that I had bought a postcard of. He hemmed and hawed and then went to get the old gentleman, to whom I repeated my little song-and-dance, and he took me into what were very obviously his private quarters. Oddly enough, I saw Count Valmarana again a few days later; he was attending a private dinner party at the Scudo di Francia when I was there. But I would say he was over 70 at the time I saw him, which was in 1992, I think.

There's an office of the Ville Venete in the Procuratie Nuove (Vecchie? the ones on the water side...), where I got a schedule of when what was open. The telephone number is 041 523 5606.

Eloise,

Those are the BEST moments, aren't they?? How very fortunate for you....I will surely try again...even if he is no longer living, they may have opened up the house and grounds to be more accessible..Thank you for the number...I am convinced, I just have to move there to do and see it all...

I think the situation at Valmarana dei Nani has changed in the meantime - on my last visit to Vicenza, I found it accessible at regular opening times (though it still was private, and you walked through the owner's living room, as in the other Veneto villas).

franco,

Was this recently??And by the way, try Da Remo for a good meal...family owned, and discovered after many, many disappointing dishes....

Bardolino wine aside, I think Bardolino is a lovely place to visit and shouldn't be reserved for insiders, especially when the weather is hot. The 9th century church is very affecting, but enjoyable too is the architecture displayed in the giant bowls of colorful gelato served up in crystal goblet's along the lakeside, studded with cherries, wafers, mountains of whipped cream, etc. How do people finish them?

The holiday atmosphere that prevades the spic-and-span town is rather sweet, and the swans are very tame. It's a pleasure spot full of old-fashioned pleasures, and its artistic gems are also a pleasure to take in.

Franco,

It does not surprise me that the situation has changed at Valmarana ai Nani. As I said, the old gentleman was quite, quite old when I saw him almost 15 years ago. It's good to know, though, that the present owners are still allowing access.

Traviata,

There's a rather lovely book by Witold Rybczinski (I think that's how it's spelled; he teaches architecture at the University of Pennsylvania) called "The Perfect House." He tells how he visited the Palladian villas and gives a great deal of historical and architectural background. It's personal and scholarly at the same time. The only criticism I have is that it is very sparsely illustrated. But fortunately, I have three or four volumes of photographs of the Palladian villas, so if he didn't show something that he was talking about, I could usually find it in one of my other books.

Eloise,

I will look for the book.. Thank you...walking through Barbaro made me hungry for more...it was a short tour, unfortunately, and a very limited area to see...I just wanted to sit there for a long, long while and try to see all the details that could never be grasped in the limited time we had...

This seems to be the thread of nice descriptions - brava, nessundorma, we won't be able to top your Bardolino description, I guess! I didn't want to say it's a place just for insiders; but I dare saying that only insiders would go to Bardolino exclusively for including it to their pre-Romanesque-churches itinerary - only people as crazy as I am would do so...
Traviata, it wasn't too recently that I were at Valmarana dei Nani, but way later than Eloise (don't recall the precise year). And thank you for the restaurant suggestion; till now, the best meal I had in Vicenza was in a pizzeria opposite the Basilica - really, really good pizza, yet pizza isn't what I'd call my favourite dish...
Eloise, thank you for the book suggestion; the respective illustrations could be found in "Venetian Villas" by Michelangelo Muraro, that's a beautifully illustrated book. Available, nowadays, only from antiquarian booksellers; they have a few copies at www.antiqbook.com, I've checked it two minutes ago.