Please help with my itinerary in Dordogne -Provence
 

I am trying to plan a last minute trip (Late Oct - Nov) to France that covers sights neither of us has seen before. After a short trip to Normandy we'd like to see some of the Dordogne, Carcasonne, some of Provence & then drive to Grasse before flying back to Paris from Nice. We have about 9 days & were thinking of the caves in the Lascaux area, as well as Sarlat and Beynac. In Provence we were thinking about Pont du Gard, Tarascon & St Remy. I've read over several guide books & the amount of information is overwhelming. I'd like sggestions on how much should we expect to see/do in 1 day & what would you suggest we see.I am depending on all your collective experiences to tell me if I have to cut back or go ahead. Or, if there is something you think is really special that I havne't mentioned in any of these areas please speak up. We have to get from Caen to the starting point in the Beynac area. I haven't really seen a good way. Any suggestions on a feasible combination of trains & car? Thanks.

I can't help with the Dordogne, Carcasonne part, but in Provence, you can easily do Pont du Gard, Tarascon and St. Remy in one day if you pushed it. Pont du Gard is only about 45 minutes drive from St. Remy.

You might consider whether you want to add to your time there to fit in the perched villages of Gordes, Rousillon, Oppiede etc. Or hit Arles or Avignon instead.

Sounds like you are trying to cover quite a bit of ground in a short time.

My advice would be to plant yourself in an area for about 4 -5 days and really explore, rather than keep relocating.

Do you have 9 days total, or 9 days after you leave Normandy?

I sympathize, because trying to plan the Dordogne part of our trip, that included Provence, was the most difficult! We managed Provence/Nice without a car easily, beginning when we dropped off the rental at Carcassonne's airport. We picked up the car in Amboise.

Beynac (we stayed three nights)was one of my favorite places- I did not care for Sarlat, personally. But trying to get around the Dordogne area without a car would be very difficult unless you used tour services from perhaps Sarlat to get to the caves.

The drive from Amboise to Beynac took way, way longer than I anticipated, and that was on the highway. We stopped in Oradour-sur-Glane for a few hours, though. Once you are on the smaller roads it seems to take twice as long to get around- but that is also where some of the most memorable vistas and moments happened.
Maybe: very long day Caen to Beynac
two nights there
one day canoe the river and tour La Roque and Castlenaud along the way (another highlight)
next day whatever caves you can accomplish
third day highway to Carcassonne, drop off car, taxi/shuttle to Carcassone to arrive very late afternoon...one night is plenty (after tourists leave), back to train station next morning, train to Nice (another very long day)
whew! it may be too much...
Anyway, we stayed in Villefrance, also a great bus/train place and got to St. Remy, etc. But I had a full week.
Actually from Carcassonne we went to Collioure which I adored- you might look into that, too, unless you are locked into Provence with your Nice tickets already purchased.
I was also in Arles and Avignon with trains, bus so maybe can help more if you are more specific. You do lose time waiting for them and making the connections, etc, versus a car.

JeStraveler - thank you for your reply. I had already read your report -it was great.
We have a total of 9 days after Normandy- that includes getting to & from Paris.
sglass- thank you so much for your comments. I don't mind driving, I just don't want to spend a huge part of the trip on the highway. It looks like we would have to spend most of the day getting from Caen to Bordeau (via paris)& then drive a couple more hours to Beynac. It seems to be one of those "you can't get there from here" places.
We don't have the ticket for the Nice flight yet but I think that flying is the best way to return to Paris. The only other option is to return to Paris from Toulouse. They are the only 2 cities that have inexpensive flights within France that could work for us. Maybe we could fly into one city, see the sights between & then return from the other. It's just hard to gage how long it actually takes to drive from one town to the other and how much time to allow to see the sites. I need more help.

sglass, I was interested in your comment that driving Amboise - Beynac took longer than anticipated. Approx how long did it take you? I'm planning something similar next year: Paris via St Aignan (near Amboise), St Benoit-du-Sault and Oradour-sur-Glane to Sarlat/Beynac or thereabouts. Thanks.

We usually base ourselves in St Remy in Provence with Tarascon and Pont de Gard easy drives.
We fly out of Marseilles to get back to Paris . About 45 minute drive to the airport.

Just my opinion but I would cut Nice out all together. The TGV from Avignon to Paris is only 2.5 hours.

I would try to spend 3/4 nights at least in the area around Beynac...We had 7 nights in the Dordogne and 3 nights in the Lot and we felt like we just scratched the surface. Loved...Loved...Loved the Dordogne.

If it was my first trip I would try for Font de Gaume instead of Lascaux. It is an authentic cave and that latter pales in comparison...IMO.

1 night in Carcasonne is enough.

I would then spend 3/4 nights in St Remy area as there is much to see there as well. If you really want to see the Med coast, take a day trip from there to Cassis. Car rental can be dropped off at the TGV station in Avignon.

Good luck with your planning and enjoy.

Hi M,

>We have a total of 9 days after Normandy- that includes getting to & from Paris.

Assuming that you have your plane tickets, and have to fly home from Paris, you have 2 days lost in transit; plus I expect that you will want to be in Paris the night before you leave - thus 6 days.

It's an all-day drive from Beynac-et-Cazenac to Grasse.

Thus, 5 days.

I suggest either the Dordogne or Provence, but not both.

((I))

Grimmy - what airline do you fly out of Marseilles? CRAZY4TRAVEL - I was hoping to see both sets of caves - would that be overkill?
I am beginning to agree with ira that we can't do both Provence & Dordgone - it's just so hard to choose!! One will just have to wait for the next trip.
Let me clarify my time table:
I estimate that it will take most of 1 day to get from Caen to Beynac or what ever town in Provence we may choose. We need to be back in Paris on 11/7, but we stay in Paris for several more days. So that leaves 7 full days. I thought we'd have at least part of the last day if we flew to Paris from Nice.

I need help choosing an itinerary for one of these areas. I don't particularly want to visit Nice or the other coast towns (at least in Nov). I did want to see Grasse & other towns further north. We would only be going to Nice for it's airport. I've read several trip reports for Provence but not many on Dordgone. Help me decide.
What would you do with these 7 days?

I agree with ira. You don't have enough days to do justice to both the Dordogne and Provence. Pick one and plan to go back to see the other when you have more time.

You really need a car to enjoy either area, but particularly the Dordogne. Public transportation is pretty much nonexistent.

I also suggest one region or the other to make the most of your stay. If you are spending the duration in the Dordogne, two caves would not be overkill by any means. My favorite two were the Font de Gaume and in the Lot the Grotte du Peche Merle which is close enough to visit as well...both authentic caves. Lascaux II was interesting but a fabricated replica. Although it is supposed to be an exact copy, I just couldn't get past that fact so it didn't have the same impact for me.

There is so much to see in the Dordogne. From caves, castles and markets to many quaint towns. My trip report can be found here:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35008050

and my photos can be found here:

http://www.kodakgallery.com/crazy4travel

hi, mimmel,

I second [or is it third?] the dordogne or provence idea - either but not both, especially if you want to see carcassonne as well.

IMO you should try to see all three caves - they are all different and fascinating in their own ways. Also the gouffres de padirac if it's open. [it was shut a little while ago]. there are also so many castles and gaedens to see, plus rafting..quite enough to fill the time you have.

or go east...less is more.

regards, ann

After you visit Normandy, have you considered staying overnight in Rennes instead of Caen?. I think Rennes is a much more interesting city - and there is a TGV train directly to Provence with no train changes. It leaves at 9:15 and arrives in Avignon TGV at 2:51 - so it won't consume an entire day. There are later trains with only 1 train change - check connections via Lyon on http://www.reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

Like others have stated, only visit 1 other destination. Do you have my 20+ page itinerary for Provence & Cote d'Azur, or my 20+ page itinerary for the Dordogne. If not, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll send you one or both.

Don't know which area I would pick for November - perhaps the Dordogne because there are more things you can see if the weather is foul (caves & castles). Also, IMO the food is better in the Dordogne.

Stu Dudley

OK, I am convinced & I'm leaning toward Dordogne. So far the plan is to take the train to Rennes , rent a car & drive to Mont St Michel. I understand that the tides do something special when we're there, otherwise we could do the trip in reverse & leave from Renne as was suggested. We then drive to Bayeux for 2 nights. That's definite. Every thing else is flexible. We may only be in Caen long enough to drop off the car & catch a train, unless the weather is bad & then we could visit the museum.
The downside of the Dordogne region is that it's so hard to get to. I plan to rent a car once we get there, but Bordeau seems to be the closest TVG station. Would you rent in Bordeau & drive, or transfer & take a train into Dordogne & rent there? There must be a better way to get to Beynac. Any more ideas?

Easyjet has flights from Toulouse back to Paris Orly for very low prices which you may want to consider if you decide on that region.

I think there is more to do in the Dordogne in off season than Provence. Padric was open when we were in the Lot and we found it quite interesting as well. They say that Font de Gaume may close eventually so it was very high on our list. Peche Merle we found to be the most interesting of all with both cave drawing and some interesting formations.

We visited 5 castles between the Lot and Dordogne. I'm not sure about gardens and canoe trips in Late October and early November but there is certainly many points of interest.

We left Amboise about 9:30 in the morning (an hour later than planned, of course, due to the usual rental car drama)and did not arrive in Beynac until almost 9 at night. We had the advantage of the summer sun lasting until then, however...

This included about two-and-a-half hours at Oradour-sur-Glane and a dinner break (pizza in Celenac? can't remember but it was charming). It was pretty fast going on the highway south from Amboise, but once on the road to Oradour the speed limit dropped considerably. We maybe should've just backtracked to the toll road, after, but it looked so tempting on the map to take the back roads! It probably wouldn't have taken as long- nonetheless, it will be a long day.

The caves (especially Font-de-Gaume and Peche Merle) were highlights not only of this trip but of my whole life. If you are not especially interested in Nice/the Riviera, at least for this trip that is in November, and given that you want to see the caves, I agree that staying in the Dordogne region with the car for a week is what you should do.

Carcassonne was very cool to see late at night when the tourists had left, but if I had to choose between that and the day spent canoeing on the Dordogne, I would choose the canoe day, for sure! It was unique, a fun way to tour the castles and a nice break from being underground. I would also highly recommend Rouffignac (that is spelled wrong?) or Padirac, too. We also spent a day driving a modified version of Stu's itinerary along the Lot River- gorgeous!

hi, mimmel,

based on what another poster had said elsewhere, I looked on the SNCF website, and found that you can get a direct train, admittedly not TGV, from Paris to Brive which takes about 4 hours. Much better than driving. it is a short drive from there to Sarlat, etc.

you could wander through the dordogne to touoluse, then train back from there.

regards, ann

You can also take the regular train to Périgueux, which puts you right in the heart of the Périgord Noir, where you want to be.

I have finally decided to see Dordogne only. I can't imagine what I was thinking to have included Provence as well. Planning this trip has been overwhelming. I have never had such a hard time before & with out the help of all you, I think I would have given up.

CRAZY4TRAVEL - your report was so helpful. Your pictures made the descriptions in the guide books come alive.
Annhig - thanks for the tip about Brive. I think I'll take the train back to Paris from here instead of driving back to Toulouse. The fare is only 29euro.
Here's my tentative & vague itinerary. I still need help deciding how much time I need to allow for various sights & I have no idea about hotels/B&Bs. It seems much closes in November.

Day 1: Orly to Toulouse arrive at 8:05. Pick up rental & drive to Carcassone. See the fort & town. Drive to Albi. Stay the night.

Day 2: See Musee de Toulouse Latrec & church. Drive to Cordes-sur-Ciel. Short stop (? how long). Drive to St-Cirq-Lapopie .See the some of the town & stay the night.

Day 3: See Pech Merle in morning. Drive to Padirac & see cave. Stay the night in the area or drive to Carennac.

Day 4 - 7 Stay in the Sarlat area & do day trips. (Need lots of suggestions here)
Not sure if Font de Gaume is still open in Nov. Would seeing 2 more caves - Font de Gaume & Lascoux ll - be overkill.. I would like to see the museum at Les Eyzies de Tayac, Beynac & the castle, La Roque St Christophe, Chateau Castelnaud ( confused about which one is which - it seems that there are 2 with very similar names). I would like to include the market at St Cyprien. Other towns include: Le Roque Gageac, Rocmadour & a tour of Ferme Auberge Moulin (what town is this in?). I think it will be too cold for a canoe but the Gabare sounds good. How can I find out if it still operates in Nov?

We will return to Paris via Brive either late on 11/6 or early on Day 8 or early on Day 9. Several of the hotels mentioned in the posts close in Nov. I really need help with accommodations. Thanks to all.
Mim

whoops that should say:
We will return to Paris via Brive either late on day 8 or early on day 9.

Hi M,

Your plan looks good.

You might want to overnight in Carcassone.

You might find parts of my trip report helpful.

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34676645

Photos at http://tinyurl.com/sjch4

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

Mimmel, you'll love the Dordogne!

Robjame is in the Dordogne now and if you ask on his "Safe inthe Dordogne" thread he'll probably be able to tell you what caves are still open in November.

My Dordogne report should answer some of your questions:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34839073

"Drive to Padirac & see cave"

We were there in September and it was closed due to a strike, they thought it would be closed for the rest of the season. Have your hotel call before you venture out there. We went to Lacave instead and it was fabulous.

Your plan seems to be shaping up well Mimmel.

Padric is open until the end of October 9-12pm and 2-5pm.

Rocamadour is not far from Padric so if you plan is visit it would be my suggestion to do it while in the Lot.

I might suggest going to Padric and that area of the lot first and then seeing St Cirq and Peche Merle on your way to the Dordogne. That way your not back and forth so much.

Grotte du Peche Merle is open daily until November 4th from 930am-12pm and 130-5pm. You can reserve in advance at: [email protected]

I had two bed and breakfast to recommend but they are both closed during the winter. You may want to consider a hotel instead. We fell in love with the town of La Roque Gageac and it would be a very central location for what you want to see. La Belle Etoile in Le Roque has a good restaurant. The Logis de France website might be helpful for you.

www.logisdefrance.com
Belle Etoile http://www.logis-de-france.fr/uk/recherch/index-ca.htm

This website might be helpful as well.
http://www.cc-perigord-noir.fr/gb/presentation.htm

Hotel l'Esplanade in Domme gets high marks but the restaurant is quite pricey. Some people very much like the town of Domme and the views are striking. I personally didn't bond with the town on any level.

Sarlat may be a good choice for off season but would not be as convenient in my opinion to the sites that you plan to visit.

The Garbares operate until the first Sunday in November.

The museum in Les Eyzies is open except Tuesday 930am-Noon and 2-530pm.

Font de Gaume is opened 930am to Noon and 2-530pm in October and in November 10am to Noon and 2-5pm. Email reservation to: [email protected]

Lascaux II is open daily except Monday 1030am-1230pm and 2-6pm. You can buy tickets at the tourist office in Montiginac.

Le Roque St Christophe is open year round. October 10-630pm and November 11-5pm

I believe Castelnaud and Beynac are both open daily from 10-6pm in Oct/Nov.

St Cyprien market is Sundays.

I would add that extra day on to your trip if you can.

Hope this info helps...if you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

Good luck with your planning. You'll love the area I'm sure.

Thank you Ira, Moolyn, Susanna & CRAZY.
I am sad to hear about the srtike & have emailed them .I hope it can be resolved in the next few weeks. The good news is that they are open through Toussaint, which I think is 11/4. It's also the date of the last Gabare ride.
Moolyn, I couldn't find Robjame's thread on Safe in the Dordogne. Could you give me more direction?

Ira, would you suggest staying in Carcssonne because it's too much for one day or becasue there's more to see there than the fort? Unfortunately, Hotel Montmorency is closed when we're there.

CRAZY, I don't quite get your sugestion to see "Padric and that area of the lot first and then seeing St Cirq and Peche Merle on your way to the Dordogne." We will be coming from Carcassonne. Won't se come to St Cirq 1st, with padric being further north? We'll ba leaving from Briev & won't re retracing our steps. Please clarify this for me.

Also would you all suggest seeing 4 of the caves, all in 1 trip. Does it get to be too much of a good thing??

Sorry for all the typos. I managed to hit "post" when I was aiming for something else.

I'm not Ira or CRAZY, but we've vacationed in the Dordogne and Lot for over 12 weeks recently.

>>Ira, would you suggest staying in Carcssonne because it's too much for one day or becasue there's more to see there than the fort? Unfortunately, Hotel Montmorency is closed when we're there.<<

IMO, Carcassonne is a 3 hr visit max. Many people like overnighting there to avoid the summer crowds. I've visited Carcassonne twice, but never stayed overnight. There are a lot of tacky souvenir shops there, but they are closed in the evening & morning and you can appreciate the architecture (which some people have problems with) better without postcard stands everywhere. I don't imagine that Carcassonne will be crowded enough in late Oct/early Nov to make much of what I've said matter. I would plan an itinerary and then stay overnight at a spot that you'll get to around 4PM or so.

>>CRAZY, I don't quite get your sugestion to see "Padric and that area of the lot first and then seeing St Cirq and Peche Merle on your way to the Dordogne." We will be coming from Carcassonne. Won't se come to St Cirq 1st, with padric being further north? We'll ba leaving from Briev & won't re retracing our steps. Please clarify this for me.<<

I think you can do a little more on on Day 1. If you land at 8:00 you should get out of the airport by 9:30 and get to Carcassonne by 10:30 (I am just guessing on driving times - check with viamichelin). Take the guided tour of the fort & you should be finished by 11:30. Wander around Carcassonne, have lunch there, then head out after lunch - 2:00 or so. Around Albi, visit a few of my favorite Bastide towns - Lisle sur Tarn and especially Castelnau de Montemiral. Then stay overnight in Albi. However, if you land in Albi on a Sunday, most shops will be closed on Monday morning. You shuld be able to take the well market walking tour of Albi and also visit the Church, Toulouse Lautrec, and chateau grounds on day 1 - or a little on day 2 if you didn't see everything on day 1.

Day 2 head north & visit Cordes if you like and a drive through the lovely Gorge de l'Aveyron - stopping at a few of the medieval villages. Catch the freeway at Caussade and head north to St Cirq Lapopie. You should not need reservations for Peche Merle, so visit it on day 2 or day 3 - depending on when you arrive in the area.

Day 3 Visit Roccamadour early in the am (if you visited Peche Merle on day 2) and try to get to Padirac before they close for lunch. Check closing times (assume last tickets will be sold 30 mins before closing time), and viamichelin for driving times. We did this itinerary in '05 - getting to Padirac for the last tour of the morning. Perhaps have lunch at Autoire or Loubressac (visit both - don't remember which has better lunch options). Then go up to the Dordogne and follow it west - stopping in Carennac & Martel. If you want to indulge yourself & stay at a chateau, try the one near La Cave at the Ch de la Treyne. If you have time, take the tour of the Lacave Cave.

Day 4 On to the heart of the Dordogne. If some sites are closed (Padaric) you may be able to make it to the Sarlat area on day 3.


>>Also would you all suggest seeing 4 of the caves, all in 1 trip. Does it get to be too much of a good thing??<<

At a minimum, I would visit Peche Merle and Lascaux. If you visit Fond du Gaume after Peche Merle, you may be a little disappointed - I don't think the cave drawings are as interesting as Peche Merle. If you want "authentic", however, visit Fond du Gaume.

Which fourth cave are you considering??

Do you have my 20+ page itinerary for the Dordogne and my 35+ page one for the Languedoc. Much of what I've suggested above is detailed more in the itineraries. I've "handed out" my various itineraries to well over 500 people on the Fodors & aol travel forums. e-mail me at [email protected] if you want a copy.

Stu Dudley

Much as I love Martel, I think Collonges-la-Rouge would be of more interest to first-time visitors to the area, and it's easy to fit into that day trip to Rocamadour.

Hi Mimmel...my suggestion comes from your plan that you list in a prior post as follows:

Day 1: Orly to Toulouse arrive at 8:05. Pick up rental & drive to Carcassone. See the fort & town. Drive to Albi. Stay the night.

Day 2: See Musee de Toulouse Latrec & church. Drive to Cordes-sur-Ciel. Short stop (? how long). Drive to St-Cirq-Lapopie .See the some of the town & stay the night.

Day 3: See Pech Merle in morning. Drive to Padirac & see cave. Stay the night in the area or drive to Carennac.


You mention in your plan first driving from Carcasonne to Albi staying for the night....then Cordes for a stop...and from there going to St Cirq...then you mention going to Padric or Carennac which are almost 1.5 to 2 hours north east of St Cirq la Popie.

The drive back from Carennac to the Dordogne is almost two hours. I thought it might save you some time if you went north to Padric and Rocamadour...then headed west back to the Dordogne. Everything seems close together but the roads are small and traffic can make the drive longer than it appears. I thought it might save you some time.

I enjoyed my visit to Carcasonne but I would not go that far out of my way to visit it. The Lot has many authentic town that far outshine it...again just my opinion but you are heading a couple of hours out of your way to see it. If you feel that it is a must, I would stay there overnight as most of its charm comes from seeing the walls all lit up at night.

I recommend the Best Western le Donjon les Remparts as a possible hotel there.

Sorry about my prior recommendation. I see that we were coming from a completely different direction on our trip. We started out in Toulouse and went to St. Cirq first....onto Pech Merle...Figeac...and North East to the area around Carennac. We then proceeded to the Dordogne.

Coming from the direction of Carcassone and Albi it would be a different approach and I'm off on my sense of direction. I guess a bit of zig zagging is involved regardless.

Sorry about that....

I agree with St Cirq about Collonges la Rouge - except in the suggestion I made, I would swap out Loubressac & Autiore instead of Martel. Collonges is quite unique in southern France because of the color of the red stone buildings (Meyssac just east has the same "color").

Stu Dudley

bookmarking

We stayed in Loubressac and thought the villages in that area were very charming...Carennac, Autoire, Padric, Rocamadour all very close by.

We did the Saturday market in Martel and thought it was ok but the town although charming did not hold great interest for me. The St Cyprien market knocked my socks off...it was wonderful and much more extensive than I expected.

I don't think you'd be sorry if you allocated more time to this region. It's less touristy (except Rocamadour) and has endless charm. I didn't make it to Collonges la Rouge but it's on my list for the next time.

CRAZY
I've had many people tell me that they were not "wowed" by towns/villages that I really like - and many of them visited the towns on market day - like you did. I've stated many times on this forum that markets can have a tendency to divert your attention away from the lovely architecture of the towns. Sarlat is a prime example. St Cyprien isn't that neat of a village, so the market does not get in the way there.

Stu Dudley

Martel, the "town of seven towers," is really only interesting if you know its history. It's not on the face of it any more attractive than many other similar nearby towns.

St-Cyprien is also rather ordinary except on Sunday when the market is held. It's a great, great market!

I agree about swapping out Loubressac and Autoire, Stu.

And it's Padirac, not Padric....sorry, just bugging me to read it misspelled so many times, and correct spelling might help the OP.

I think that's very true Stu..we went back to Sarlat in the evening and were able to admire the architechure without the stalls or umbrellas. After dark it was very nice to stroll the streets by gas light. I felt I was transported back in time.

I guess I was expecting more from the Martel Market being a Saturday...much smaller than I expected.

I expect that since you've had a chance to spend so much time in the area that you've been able to return to the same spot several times and experience it in a different light. I do plan to return to the region and give it more attention. That's if Rick Steve's doesn't spoil the somewhat low profile the area enjoys:)

Sorry about the spelling error..sometimes I feel like giving up on the board when people get so picky about such things.

I gave the poster opening and operation times for just about every attraction she wants to visit as well as some email addresses to reserve. But I guess in the end the spelling error cancels that out.

CRAZY - if spelling errors cancel out content - I would have everything I've ever posted cancellel.

Stu Dudley