Please forgive me, NorthShore, for intruding on your post.

Rex, have you read "The Coming Generational Storm" by Laurence Kotlikoff, professor of economics at Boston University? His "generational accounting" should be required study for politicians on both sides of the aisle.

http://econ.bu.edu/kotlikoff/

Off topic from visas and the like - but if you plan to rent a car on occassion - you might find it cheaper to lease a car for the year and travel with it....a lot of people have mentioned overseas leasing for stays fo 17 days or more - and it might make a lot of sense for you as you travel around (saving on rail costs) and allows you deeper exploration of the areas you travel in...something to check out anyway...and now back to our program....

On that same vein, the lease idea works best if you put major cities at each end of the trip -- places you'll stay the longest and not need a car. And also don't be trapped into looking at a map and trying to do your trip is what looks like a logical progression. In these days of cheap flights, we never worry about what would look like backtracking. What does make sense is to put places together when you'll be using the car and not be afraid to fly off a couple hours (that's a long way in Europe) to visit others at ends of the trip.

For example, next summer among other places we'll be re-visiting Venice, Bellagio, Nice, Paris, and London. Now logically you'd think we'd do them in that order. But after studying transporation, we're actually doing Venice, Bellagio, then fly to London from Milan, fly to Nice, and then fly to Paris. All three flights are quicker and cheaper than any combination of train tickets we could figure out that would take longer even in the more logical order of visits.

Here are some daytrips to consider. Given you will have 30 days in Paris, you could do easily do 4-6. You might consider doing an overnight or two and maybe string a couple together.

Chartres

Versailles

Troyes

Fontainebleau

Chateau Malmaison

Chantilly & Senlis

Monet's Garden at Giverny

St-Germain-en-Laye

Vaux-le-Vicomte

Provins

Chateau de Versailles

Chateau de St. Germaine-en-Laye

Auvers-sur-Oise

Loire Valley (long day or overnite)

Reims (long day or overnite)

Rouen (long day or overnite)

See http://www.voyages-sncf.com/

I am sooooo with Patrick on this one.

Northshore, it sounds as if you have and are thinking out all the possibilities. What you and your spouse are doing is a dream for many - and something that many of the same would be too timid to try.

Do it. Enjoy it. But, be sure to give us updates now and then.

There's a small cottage in a lavender field in Provence that I want to rent one summer. It's 800 euros a week in the summer - and 800 euros a month in the winter. Your budget seems more than ample. I would rent a few places long-term as previously suggested and use them as bases for shorter trips via train.

Go for it!

NorthShore, You don't need to justify your decision to do this. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of personal financial information that people give here. I think most of us would LOVE to do what you are planning. It's really none of anyone's business what your financial status is or how you use your money. Anyway, it's clear that you have all that under control. I hope you have a wonderful experience (you are sure to with the time you have at your disposal).

As others have mentioned, do it while you can. My husband always tells the story about a man he worked with who was extremely good and knowledgeable about his job. He and his wife had plans to move to Florida (we live in upstate NY) when he retired to "enjoy life." Halfway to Florida, he died of a heart attack.

NorthShore, I hope you'll post now and then as your plans develop. I'm especially interested to know how staying 8 months works out as far as gov't paperwork needed to do this.

I'm guessing a combination of longer term apartment/home rentals with a few 1 week hotel stays in between would give you the most flexibility. And I think your budget is more than adequate for what you describe.

All the best, s.

Northshore-

I just want to chime in from the "younger" generation here. I think your plan sounds fantastic!
The year we turned 30 (we're now 36) my husband and I quit our jobs and took a year off to travel the world. It turned out to be 9 months of the best time of our lives before the money ran out. BTW, we never had to "check in" in the US, but that was 1998-9, so maybe things have changed.
Friends, family and aquaintences, all said "are you crazy? Why don't you buy a house/ have a family/ save for retirement?"
Well, we came home, got our jobs back and within a year bought a house. We have absolutely no regrets and would do it again in a heartbeat. It was the best $36,000 ever spent in my opinion. We hope to do it again someday. We're glad we din't wait for retirement otherwise we might never have trekked in Nepal, gone diving on the Great Barrier Reef, or spent 6 weeks in Thailand.
As for your plan, I vote for the apartment rentals. They will turn out to be substantially cheaper and more comfortable. We just did a 1 week rental in Paris and it was still cheaper to leave the apartment vacant for 2 days while we traveled to Lyon, than to rent a hotel room only for the days were were there. Check out www.vrbo.com for apartment rentals. Many give discounts for a month's stay. Maybe another option is to do the month rentals and then spend 1-2 weeks traveling between your "main" destinations, staying in hotels along the way.
I also think your money is ample for your needs.
The car leasing option is a good idea. We did this through Peugeot for 3 months in Europe and it was fantastic. Yes, rail can be cheap, but it adds up for two people and having a car gives an amazing amount of freedom.
Whatever you decide, it will be right for you. Have a fantastic trip!

Thank you all for the continued feedback.

We have a huge planning task ahead of us. I will post more questions as we narrow down our city choices.

it's already been corrected that the US does not require a periodic "check in". however, i find it fascinating that so many people here accepted this premise without much thought. i'm not an expert on immigration/visa/travel issues but any thought that a free, western democracy (or any country for that matter) would require it's travelling citizens to periodically "check in" would send shivers up my spine. talk about an infringement on personal freedoms!

why did so many accept this as likely? have liberties eroded so much in the US that people actually find that it would be plausable that the US government would restrict its citizens in such a major way? i'm not trying to start trouble but just an observation of something that i thought was a little strange.

Sounds like a wonderful plan to me. We hope to do something similar, but basing ourselves in one city (probably Rome).

As far as the visa issue, generally you will be able to obtain permission for a longer stay by proving you have the financial resources to support yourself without working. You can do that.

There is no "check-in" requirement for American citizens. They may be thinking of legal permanent residents (Green Card holders).

The only advice I have is to consider the attractions of each locale carefully. A month in Heidleburg would be way too long for me, same with Amsterdam -- but perhaps you have special interests in those places.

Spending the winter in Mexico or Central America -- to me these are a vastly under-rated destinations. Lately I've been more interested in traveling there than to Europe.

walkinaround, what an interesting post. First let me say that I had never heard of, nor did I accept the idea that a citizen might need to "check in" as you say.

But I think the bottom line to this is that there are two ways to think of this. A mother may require a teenager to check in mid way through an evening date. Some regard this as a total act of aggression on her part and resent her interfering with their fun. Others may actually feel it shows she cares.

While I didn't think a citizen would have to check in with his government from time to time, let me say that if this were true, I'd think "how nice. They care about me and want to know I'm safe." I wouldn't find it a horrible violation of my personal freedoms. Of course, I realize others would be quick to call it a violation of their rights -- just not me.

But then I'm the type who doesn't find having to be searched at the airport is a violation of my personal freedom either. I'm a firm believer that if it makes things safer overall,then why worry about a little inconvenience?

Good advice about picking the cities wisely. I guess one method is to have "hub" cities with lots of daytrip options and alternate the one month and one/two week stays.

I like Amsterdam, but view it as a two week stay as a means see it again and also explore the region.

walkinaround, I think you're reaching a little bit here.

The person who raised (and then self corrected) the possibility of a US citizen check-in requirement posted late at night on a holiday weekend. Not exactly fodor rush hour. Most people were either asleep or with their families/friends over the long weekend. The others posting at the time seemed heavily engaged in another aspect of NorthShore's post.

walkinaround- i think your post is WAY over the top. i did not "accept this premise"... but since i had no facts at hand about length of allowable stays, visa, or anything related, nor was it in any way information i needed myself, i didn't pay attention to that single reply that i figured was in error in the first place. sheez.

Passports are a wonderful source of information though I suspect most of us don't get past our own photo.

The US passport reads:

Register with the US Embassy: when traveling to remote or volatile areas, visiting a foreign country for a prolonged stay, or residing abroad - register with the US embassy or consulate by telephone, fax or in person.

A UK passport reads:

Registration Overseas British Nationals resident overseas who are entitled to the protection of the UK authorities should contact the nearest British High Commission, Embassy or Consulate to enquire about any arrangements for registration of their names and addresses. Failure to do so may in an emergency result in difficulty or delay in according them assistance and protection.

I would expect passports from any country would have similiar language.

Questions for NorthShore to resolve:

Does the sale of your home, etc. and moving out of the US for an extended period make you an overseas resident?

You make note of your 20 year military service, would any of the benefits be negated by overseas residency?

NorthShore - you might enjoy reading this blog written by a woman who is traveling around Europe with her husband and daughter for 18 months:

http://www.slowtrav.com/blog/kaydee/

Absolutely rent apartments - not hotels. You will get sick of eating out! At least I did during my year in Europe (especially in Germany where even a bowl of soup seemed to contain eight sausages.) Sometimes it's nice to wake up and eat some cereal.

Try to live in Amsterdam during the summer when there are free concerts almost every day in the Vondelpark.

You might take a month and rent a car just to be "on the road." I did this and drove from Venice to Amsterdam, on up to Copenhagen, and back down to Venice with no plan. The only rule was, drive for four hours then stop. (Sometimes this rule was broken, but not by much.) I saw some towns I never, ever would have considered visiting and hung out with some locals that rarely saw tourists. It was really great to have no plan. Don't try this in August though!

obxgirl and suze, now I'm curious. Since you two have responded to walkinaround's post, do you agree that IF the US government required its citizens to check in with them that you'd consider that a horrible violation of your personal rights? Or like me, would you consider it a good thing -- as protecting me as a citizen and watching out for my welfare?

This is a sort of glass half empty vs. glass half full thing.

Patrick,
I am curious. Would you really consider it a good thing to spend well over $1000 in airfare and lodging to fly back to the US for at least one night (as the poster indicated) to ‘check in’. What is the purpose of that? Seems like a major waste of time and money.

If you do have a problem in Europe, there are US Embassies and consulates all over the place.

I feel that filing my US tax form annually is enough of a ‘check in’

As an expat who's resided in Europe for 6 years and counting, I have never "checked in" with the U.S. Embassy. It's a request, not a legal requirement.
Patrick, checking in with the U.S. Embassy doesn't really add to your safety. During the first Gulf War, when my in-laws were living in Kuwait, they did indeed check in with the U.S. Embassy. And frankly, the embassy staff were next to useless. They screwed things up in dozens of small and big ways (example: my father-in-law spent a few weeks as a hostage in Kuwait City and then Baghdad. The State Department used to call us every few days ostensibly to update us on his status. But they couldn't even keep straight who he WAS. They'd call us with info about my husband's "brother" one day, his "uncle" the next. And they never told us anything we hadn't already heard [more accurately] from other sources). As my in-laws are dual citizens (Canada) they also were in touch with the Canadian Embassy, who were light years ahead of the U.S. Embassy in dealing with civilians caught up in the crisis.

northshore,
are you by any chance from the northshore of Chicago?
If so let me know - i did spend a year living in Europe (Prague to be exact) and have friends from all over the contintent. Feel free to email me at [email protected] and I can get you information on how to find housing when you finalize the countries you're going to.

Whoa. Maybe I totally misunderstood. I didn't think they meant fly back to the US and check in. I was thinking they meant call or contact an embassy to let them know where you all, that's all.
I guess I'm being naive in thinking that such a program would be a method of "watching out" for us. The statement that a person in trouble can always contact an embassy has a major flaw. If I've been kidnapped or murdered, how would I be contacting an embassy? I guess my idea was (and yes, I know this will never happen) that if I didn't "check in" after a certain period of time, they'd check on me. Wishful thinking, huh?

In any case, I only meant that being required to "contact" the government to let them know you are all right and haven't fled the country permanently, wouldn't be considered an invasion of my personal rights by me!

Ooops. I was busy composing while you posted, BTilke.

As I mentioned my scenario is how I'd like to THINK it would be. Unfortunately, your scenario is how I'm sure it WOULD BE.

Very interesting thread, and somewhat inspirational, too. Mr SB and I would love to travel as much and as far as budgets and health will allow, until one or the other (or both) gets in the way. I haven't quite resolved what I would do about missing my two adorable grandsons, though...

Back to the subject at hand. As a Brit expat, now US/dual citizen, I have a fuzzy recollection that there was some kind of regulation that could end your citizenship somehow if you lived overseas for some specific (long) period, without visiting US shores. Your trip wouldn't come close to that, Northshore, assuming there is still such a regulation, and since you won't be working, taxation issues probably won't arise either.

Did a rather fruitless Google search to see if I could find out any specifics on this -- but I did come across this from State Dept, which may have some useful links/info.
<http://www.firstgov.gov/Topics/Ameri...road.shtml>

For a "done that" perspective, you might read "Without Reservations" by Alice Steinbach. She took a 9-month sabbatical from her journalism job to travel France, England and Italy alone. I think we need to move towards Gap Years for grownups ;-) -- saw a TV series about people doing just that when we were in England in March.

Best of luck with your plans, and be sure to keep posting so we can vicariously share your trip!

The hostage situation finished on a sour note, too. My in-laws (mum-in-law first, then father-in-law a few weeks later) had a chance to get out before the American hostages were freed by leaving with the Canadians on their Canadian passport. Now, they knew they were supposed to travel on their American passports. To resolve the problem, one of the Canadian embassy officials contacted a high-up U.S. embassy official in Kuwait to see if it would be ok for them to fly on their Canadian passports in this instance. The U.S. embassy guy said, of course, if they can get out, they should go any way they can. All well and good. BUT in the period between their leaving the Gulf and getting back to the U.S., we got a call from an incredibly snotty low-level State Department flunky (probably an intern), insinuating that an investigation would be launched on why my in-laws didn't fly on their U.S. passports as they should have. I demanded to speak to her supervisor and gave him a pretty thorough ticking off. That was the last we heard from the State Department.

Anyway, NorthShore, your plan sounds wonderful and I hope you manage to do it! Please keep us updated--you will have a lot of Fodorites cheering you on.

Patrick, Quite honestly, and only since you asked direct, I couldn't care less. I do not mean this to sound harsh in your direction, because it was walkinaround with the dumb statements IMO... but I save my strong opinions for situations that are fact based. Since it turns out the U.S. does not, never did, require "check in" that's the end of my thoughts on the subject.


kindly, s.

suze, i really don't know who you are and nothing was directed at you. you must harbour some resentment for me as your aggressive post was completely out of proportion with my harmless observation...an observation that involved you in no way at all.

<i find it fascinating that so many people here accepted this premise without much thought... why did so many accept this as likely?>

walkinaround, i was involved only because I am one of the "many people here" you referred to, as I assume you meant the other posters.

<would send shivers up my spine. talk about an infringement on personal freedoms!... have liberties eroded so much in the US that people actually find that it would be plausable that the US government would restrict its citizens in such a major way?>

is hardly a "harmless observation" IMO.

Can we please stop this? because I was really enjoying the original thread about planning a long term adventure in Europe and hearing about NorthShore's plans and was upset that your little tirade got things off-topic.

>>>>
posted late at night on a holiday weekend. Not exactly fodor rush hour. Most people were either asleep or with their families/friends over the long weekend.
>>>>

this is an international board. therefore, we should never assume when people are asleep and what holidays we celebrate :-)

yes of course it is possible for anyone to deposit a foreign cheque. what i meant was that it probably wouldn't be accepted because the gov't office does not want to pay the charges nor do they want the hassles...just as a US court would not accept a speeding fine paid in euro.

"this is an international board. therefore, we should never assume when people are asleep and what holidays we celebrate "

walkinaround, I'm well aware that this is an international forum. But I can count hours on the clock and determine whether or not the target audience is likely to be available to respond. Can you?

You drew a sweeping conclusion that an entire US population doesn't care about the erosion of civil liberties because no one jumped all over AAFF's comment about the US State Dept reqmnt to "check in." He posted late at night on a holiday weekend. Much of the US was asleep or, better yet, on vacation and away from their blasted computers. By morning, AAFF had corrected his own error.

Patrick, you asked:

do you agree that IF the US government required its citizens to check in with them that you'd consider that a horrible violation of your personal rights?

No, certainly not as you subsequently described in later posts. In the past, I've held security clearances requiring permission to travel abroad and the need to report foreign contacts. I didn't mind.

I tried to post this last night but couldn't get a message to stick. Since there's another post about the politeness of responding I'm just closing the loop. I realize the confusion about "checking in" got cleared up.

BTilke's experience sounds horrible. A nightmare.

I'm done highjacking NorthShore's post now.

NorthShore, sounds like a fantastic trip! Can't wait to hear about plans as they evolve.

ttt

Northshore -

I just read a book called "Living Abroad in Italy" by John Moretti. It has a wealth of information about areas to live, costs, real estate websites etc. Its from Avalon publishers (www.travelmatters.com) but I think i got it from Amazon.

The book states you can get a short stay permit to extend your stay from 3 to 6 months in Italy. If you plan to stay longer, you can apply for a "permesso di soggiorno". This is after you get your visa.

Anyways - that book might be useful to you and I know they have others in the series on other countries besides It.

Have you narrowed down your 30 day stay cities? I have heard good things about Lyon.

Starsville
Did you say cottage? lavender? Provence???? can you give more details Pretty please?

I'm not on my computer where I have it saved on as a favorite. I have the printout at the other house, so I'll look up the weblink this weekend and forward it.

I will wait very patiently. :-)

Between this & the other post about year-long travel in Europe I've spent a lot of time thinking about it for me. I could rent my house and do this. But can I live out of a suitcase for a year? How would I get my prescriptions refilled?? What would I do with the fun "stuff" I bought along the way? Mail it back to my family, I guess. I've started a word doc with all these great ideas for if/when I really decide to do it. Has anyone done this alone?? I figure some of my girlfriends might want to meet up with me from time to time. I could bring a laptop for internet connection. Just thinking aloud here...

I'd love to hear from more people who have done this.
Cheers!
Cobbie

You are not alone. I have been researching and planning for a couple of years. I was planning to find an apartment in a small town somewhere in France or Spain. I would make that my base. I plan to apply for a long stay visa or resident visa (depending where I go). Hopefully it will not be such a complicated process, especially if you have guaranteed income and medical insurance. Of course, I may have to buy additional medical insurance. I am still researching this topic. I have been talking with my doctor and she agrees that it is certainly possible. She is willing to work with me and help me figure it all out.

I am vacillating on what to do with my house. I worry whether I want to rent my home or sell my home. I have heard bad stories when you rent your home and how it can be damaged. Decisions, decisions.

I am not afraid to be alone. I think I will enjoy taking my time and observing whatever I want to observe for as long as I want to do it. I have never done that before. I have so many friends that are just waiting for me to take the plunge so that they can join me while on vacation. Many are really afraid to do this on their own.

I am also here on the prowl, waiting for any precious bit of information that might help me. I live to read those trip reports. My family is beginning to worry about this addiction of mine.