Pimsleur - the good and not so good....
 

I am currently working on the Pimsleur Italian CDs. I am on lesson 6 of Italian II and I find them to be really good.

But I have a major rant. Why don't they offer some sort of written transcription of the lessons? I understand the whole theory, but to help in the memorization process, I wish they let you see exactly what you are hearing! It drives me batty. I think I am nearly to the point where I may go back to say the middle of Italian I and try to transcribe them myself (which will take hours for sure because I will undoubtedly have to look up the spelling of most of the Italian words not to mention all the English words). I am so frustrated.

Anyway, that's my rant for the day.

Sally

I am 48 years old and always did well in school. It took listening to Pimsleur (and other foreign language CDs) in the car this year for me to realize that I am a visual learner. I need to see the words!!! When I was listening to the Italian CDs, I would find myself trying to visualize the words to remember them (of course, I didn't know how to spell them, so my mental images were faulty.) I can totally relate to your frustrations.

My husband and I are the same...we need to see the words in order to implant them.

The tapes/CDs are great for the car but the whole system would be so much more valuable with a visual guide. The pronunciation key that comes in the small booklet isn't terribly helpful, IMO. I've asked about the recorded language courses before, however, and as they go I think Pimsleur is the best of the bunch.

I'm actually taking Italian 1 at the Boston Language Institute with a friend from this forum. I recommend it highly if you are in the Boston area. The textbook which accompanies the course is called Prego. I bought it on Amazon. It is a very well put together text. If I did not have the time or access to a school to take a full course I would purchase this book to act as a visual aid and to explain verb tenses, possessive pronouns, definite and indefinit articles yada, yada, yada. That stuff is nearly impossible for me to fathom with audio tapes alone. It is not a cheap text, but it is worth it, IMO.

It is a good idea not to show the written word. People tend to read written words as they see them in their own language. Perhaps less so in Italian, but I see it all the time in French, where the vowel sounds are mangled because the two languages pronounce them differently and the reader reverts to his language.

However...when one simply cannot understand what is being said, reading comes in handy.

I liked the Pimsleur French CDs, and would go with the method before a foreign language trip. Even though I have studied French and can read it a lot, Pimsleur helped me with the initial mini-panic I sometimes feel when spoken to and response is expected.

And then the person understands as long as s/he sees the word. Ask for directions in the street, and the answer will be incomprehensible. It is better to have the patience of hearing over and over again until it sinks in. I have not seen the CDs, but I imagine that any snetence is given in a visual context that allows the viewer to eventually get the gist of what is being said. If that is not the case, then hearing the words may well be a waste of time.

The thing is, everyone learns differently. There is a theory that we all learn at different levels of visual (seeing), audial (hearing), and kinesthetic (doing). The tapes are geared towards hearing, but some people are much more visual or kinesthetic. For instance, I can learn all three ways, but I am a much stronger visual learner. I picture the words in my head as I spell them (with Times font, no less) and I draw maps rather than give directions, etc.

I have a friend who was tested almost 100% kinesthetic. She was having a lot of problems in college (and had them in school earlier) and they thought she had a learning disability. After they figured this out, though, she did great. She's an engineer now :)

Thanks everyone! I am glad others share my frustration.

I really like the program, but yes there are times when I cannot figure out for the life of me what they are saying. And then it takes me like 15 of surfing on the internet to find the word. Ughhh! I just don't know why they don't sell a transcript.

I totally understand the importance of hearing it and learning it that way....but for reviewing purposes it would be so helpful. I listen to a lesson maybe 4 times before I move on and I mainly (only) listen while on the elliptical at the gym so I move slowly. I wish there was a way to review. Thanks for making me feel better!

Sally

I agree. I've been using the Spanish CDs for years and wish they had a written transcript as well. Sometimes when I'm really confused about what's going on, I use my translater and write down the word and keep notes in a spiral notebook. I also use other sources (Spanish for Dummies for one) and take classes. But really, I think what I really need is to live in Spain for at least 6 months :D!

I'm a visual learner too, which is why I quickly decided (after checking it out from the library) that Pimsleur is not for me. I need to know what the word looks like to know what it sounds like; I can then also better relate the word(s) to words I know in English or French.

Sorry and I'm not trying to be "wise" or anything, but could the reason be that their CD/Tapes are expected to be used by and marketed primarily to commuters (drivers).

Some of the drivers out there would be trying to reference the transcripts while driving. They have enough to do with eating and talking on the cell phone. No need for another distraction with a printed text of their language course.

MvK

Mark,
I NEVER use the tapes when driving. I have enough trouble driving without them, but maybe that (and being on cell phones) explains some of the reckless drivers out there!

I realize that this is not a European language...but I'm using the Pimsleur course for Mandarin.
I tried to take Mandarin classes but I was unable to master the pronunciation. It is hard when you are in a class with other students and pronouncing words together. I needed the repetition I get from the Pimsleur tapes and I can turn the volume up LOUD when I cannot master a certain word. I am learning much more than I did in class, although like SRS, I do listen to the lessons a few times before I move on.
I like that I can progress at my own pace. And Yes, I have a long commute so I don't have to take more time out of my schedule.

I went through the three French levels before a trip to Paris. When I didn't "get" a word I would look it up on an internet translator, but mostly went with the program as intended. I was four days in Paris before someone replied in English to me when I addressed them in French. Also had many compliments on my language skills.

Now, I'm into Italian, I do find some French slipping into my responses.

As someone earlier mentioned, it's the ability to reply, to not get too stuck that is useful.

I drive to work with the tape for about half the time and then finish it up in the parking lot. I've found the Italian has better slow pronunciations when words are introduced.

I'm a huge Pimsleur fan, but I agree--I would have preferred a written transcript, especially for review, but also in the (relatively rare) cases where I couldn't make out the words. (I was doing the Spanish tapes--my main problems were the "r" sounds.) I dealt with the problem by getting a dictionary and looking up the (English) words (um, not while driving). Sometimes I'd write up lists to help me memorize the trickier words or phrases. I also bought a small grammar book. But a basically I just went through the tapes during my commute. I ended up with very good pronunciation and comprehension (even though I had to adjust the pronunciation for Spain--not a problem). I was able to navigate very comfortably during our Spanish trip, even though my overall knowledge was much less than my knowledge of French--where I have a good vocabulary but bad pronunciation and, by extension, difficulty comprehending. To fix that, I'm now working on the French tapes.
By the way, someone has transcribed the Spanish tapes and he will sell you the transcription. I found his name through the Amazon website, I think. The only problem is that it's an earlier version of the tapes, so the transcription isn't exact.

Carolyn, That is great that someone does transcriptions of the Spanish version. I wish someone would do it for Italian! I looked a little but didn't find anything. Really Pimsleur should do this themselves and then make money off it, but they clearly don't want my opinion!

The main problem with the audio only language programs is that the learner does not develop the ability to read signs and instructions in the language when these are encountered. I often needed to understand written instructions or directions. I find travel to be much easier and more comfortable when I can understand the written signs around me as well as understanding when someone speaks to me.

Most people find that an all around approach is best for getting a new language “stuck” in the mind. Seeing, hearing, repeating all work together, no matter what your learning style is, a combined approach enhances your chances of retaining the new information.

The most important thing about using any system is to do it regularly and really study. That means read it, listen to it, and REPEAT OUT LOUD on a daily basis. The problem that most people have is that they study silently so when they do actually say the words they have a problem because the sounds are so unfamiliar to their tongue.

I have tried the Pimsleur method, but I found the audio only to be very limiting. I needed to see the conjugations of the verbs to be able to fully understand them since the subtle differences in pronunciation can be confusing. In French so many words sound so similar that it gets confusing, even the French have said that to me.

I much prefer and have used most successfully the Living Language Immersion series to make it possible for me to progress quickly.

Some will say you have actually "learned" a foreign language when you start THINKING in it.

I just hope you will not allow yourself to be discouraged, despite your best intentions and your hard work, when you get to Italy, someone finds out you speak English, and absolutely insists on practicing their conversational English with you.

I'm working with the German and Arabic Pimsleur CDs right now and have concluded that I also need to transcribe parts of the lessons in order to progress. (You are probably thinking German and Arabic at the same time? Are you insane? Did I mention that I'm living in Paris right now and also coping daily with "life as an ongoing vocabulary lesson"? But I digress.)

I don't transcribe everything in sequence, but I do transcribe the new words and challenging new combinations of words. I translate phonetically at first. With Arabic, that's as far as I can go because I can't read Arabic script very well yet. With German, however, I use a dictionary after the lesson to convert my phonetic translation into the correct spelling. Luckily, I have a German colleague down the hall, so when I get stuck I can ask him a question. I try to balance the memory work with references to the written transcript, because I realise that it's important to get the sounds imprinted in your brain just as it's important to me to get a picture of the word imprinted behind my eyes.

I'm also taking a German course at work, so I'm learning the basics of grammar at the same time. I'm not the brightest student in the class, but my pronunciation is spot-on.

(But that in itself is a challenge because the default language of explanation when German doesn't work is French. Imagine sitting there in class doing dictees of German numbers and then being asked (or listening to someone else) recite the numbers back, first in German and then in French.

Oddly, it does help to do two languages using Pimsleur at the same time because they use almost the same dialogue. I'm a little further ahead in German than Arabic, and I expect to find it entertaining when the American man asks the young Arabic woman if she'd like to come for a drink at his place.

Kate - I am impressed! Two (no three) languages at once! Wow! I could never do it - I am struggling with just trying to learn one.

Sally

Sally, I agree with you and others regarding needing to SEE the words. However, the Pimsleur (French) tapes have worked wonders for me in learning to actually SPEAK the language. But I had already taken years (YEARS ago!)of French, when grammar and reading were the main thing, not conversation. These tapes, which I work on frequently in the morning with my coffee, helped me bring it all together. I'm not sure I would want to start a new language this way, but Pimsleur sure did it for me with French.

In fact, I've debated buying the Spanish tapes for my granddaughter (a junior in high school) who has taken alot of Spanish in school, but hesitates to speak it. And she has a father who is fluent in Spanish and a grandmother whose first language is Spanish! However, I don't know when she would have the time(or motivation) to work on it, so I won't waste my money on that just yet.

My bottom line - use the Pimsleur tapes, but supplement them with some additional lessons (Alliance Francaise or such)first. Excuse me, Alliance Francaise is for only French, and I know there are lots of other languages!

For the non-French who rely on the written word, what does this mean: Dobeuliou. I'll give the context if you cannot figure it out.

LOL Kate - Yes, that girl is a tart in nearly every language. I'm studying the Arabic one as well but just started. I've been wondering what she's going to say too.

The Romanian woman turned down a drink at the bar and asked to go back to his hotel! The CD didn't offer the Romanian word for floozy. ;)

I swear by Pimsleur. Most of the rants involve people not being able to understand the lessons on the first go round. I have found that I have to repeat the lessons--sometimes 4 or 5 times to entirely "get" the language.

I am currently working with the Spanish CD's and am on series 4, lesson 22. Lesson 21 was played 5 times before I moved on. I am also using Rosetta Stone, but I find it easier to just do my daily Spanish when I am in the car and in the midst of "dead" time.

I do plan on finishing all the Pimsleur CD's for Spanish (there is a short "plus" series of 5 CD's for Spanish & French in addition to the usual 3 series). Then I will have to figure out where I go from there. The point is to learn enough to be able to assist Spanish speaking clients with some basic information. Even if I will never be "tagged" as a Spanish speaking attorney, some Spanish skills would be very helpful in what I do.

Because so much Spanish is spoken in and around Washington, DC, where I live, I make a conscious effort to listen on, say, the subway and see if I can over hear any Spanish and understand it. I can understand bits and pieces now and have seen real progress.

If you use any of these programs, you must use the program DAILY and you must be patient. I have been working with the Spanish CD's for several months. I see too many posts from folks who want more or less instant ability to speak a foreign language. That is impossible. Unless you are a kid in a school immersion program or you live in a foreign country where you MUST speak the language constantly, learning a language is a lot of work and you must put the time in to do it.

I have also, in the past, used all 3 Pimsleur Russian series before a trip to Russia (I had some Russian in high school and had a long forgotten foundation) and 2 series of the Italian CD's before a trip to Italy. I keep the CD's by the way, as I may want to review them at some point.

As you can see, I am a big fan of Pimsleur. Yes, the materials are expensive (and written transcripts would be nice), but, if you had the time and a constant window in your schedule to take, say, a university course, that would be expensive too. With Pimsleur I basically can do things at my own pace and whenever I am in the car during the day. The Pimsleur lessons are great, but you MUST work on it CONSISTENTLY or you are wasting your money and time.

As a former full graduate fellowship holder in German, and someone who can get by, and or speak/read 6 languages, I recommend the Living Language series of foreign language instruction. My 4 4 closest friends and I, all of us former foreign language majors, speak/read over 8 languages, and all of us like the Living Language series for its ease of use, and structural approach to learning Italian, particularly, as well as other languages. I used LL exclusively when I was learning Italian on my own, and I then tested in the high intermediate level when I got to Italy to take formal classroom instruction.

I've looked at Pimsleur, and I don't think it's the best choice of the self-taught language programs. I don't think it gives a good enough grounding in the basics, and particularly the idiom, of the foreign language in question. Living Language and Rosetta Stone, the latter with its interactive approach, would be my first two choices.

I like to use the cds and a
Whateverlangauge in 10 Minutes a Day book. The books have flash cards and stickers.

Thanks for the information on Living Language. I should finish with Pimsleur in the next month and purchased some of the Living Language CD's to continue. The great thing about all the good language programs is that you get different vocabulary and the same vocabulary used in different ways.

Random House (who manufactures Living Language) also has a book/CD for law enforcement professionals that I might get. I am not in law enforcement, but I am an attorney and the specialized vocabulary probaby would be great.

I too will look into Living Language. When I looked it up though I was confused as to which one to buy. There seem to many editions. Girlspytravel, What would you suggest?

Thanks again!
Sally

It wasn't till I got to France that I realized just how good the Pimsleur cds are! I am more fluent on every trip. I am on French II and keep it on in the car and on my IPOD. For me anyway, this is a good way to learn.

My husband got me an online French program but it bored me and most of the time when I sat down to use it I ended up on Fodors!

Whatever system you use to learn a language, you need to be consistent and do it every day. I am going to try and see what Living Language has to offer after finishing Pimsleur's Spanish CD's and will come back and tell you what I think.

OK, I did buy Living Language and have had the time to compare it with Pimsleur. Living Language is more of a book course with the CD's as a supplement. If you do not do the book work, you will have no idea what is on the CD; it would also function as a good review if you had already taken a formal Spanish course (which I never have). There is also not a lot of repetition, so to respond, you really have to have done the book work first. There are 4 CD's that you do with the book and 4 CD's that are designed to use "on the go". The CD's that you are supposed to do "on the go" largely presume the book work. For example, they give you a dialogue that you cannot possibly understand if you have not studied beforehand. Even though I do not like Living Language as much as Pimsleur, I will use it when I am done with Pimsleur, as stopping means I will lose fluency.

One thing I really dislike about Living Language is that there is a lot of switching between Castillian and Latin American Spanish. I live in the US and need Latin American Spanish. I don't need to learn how to lisp. It is OK to know the different pronunciations exist, but I wish they would just stick to Latin American.

The Pimsleur CD's stand alone. You can do them one after the other with almost no supplementary book work except for a very short readings booklet you can do at the end of each series (except Plus which does not have readings). I prefer Pimsleur for the car because it the CD's are sort of a mini version of what it is like to learn a language by just listening, as though you lived there and picked up words every day. I don't have time for lots of book work--which is the entire point with Pimsleur; you learn while you are wasting time (for me it is when I am in the car driving somewhere).

And now I have a one CD called "In Flight Hungarian" that I am going to try. It is 60 minutes of common expressions that you can practice on the plane (or in my case the train) as you prepare to arrive in Hungary. Since I am only planning to go for a few days as a side trip from a home exchange in Vienna, it should be enough (but I will come back and tell you what I thought after I use it). Also, I did not want to tackle another language big time while I continue to work on my Spanish because it is too confusing to do two at once--not to mention that I need German for Vienna and my German is laughable; I can generally get the gist of what is being said, but please do not laugh hysterically when I try to speak. I just want to devote all my efforts to Spanish right now. The "In Flight" series exists in an array of languages.

By the way, I am now almost done with Pimsleur Spanish III. I am finishing up lesson 26. I have the plus Spanish too. When I finish, I will try to do something with Living Language. Again, Living Language is nothing like Pimsleur and I prefer Pimsleur.

FauxSteMarie - Thanks for the update! I really appreciate your comparasions. Sounds like nothing is perfect. I look forward to your further insight. Have a great upcoming trip.

Thanks Sally. The Hugarian ain't much of anything. Just an hour of how to say "hello", "thank you", etc. Hungarian is not a language many people speak and it is supposed to be related only to Estonian and maybe Sanskrit. Crazy no?

While I can't speak a word of Hungarian--except that I know they call the language "Magyar" my great grandparents on one side were from Hungary and my father remembers them speaking Magyar. My father, by the way, spoke really only English but he could curse in several languages. First you learn to say "thank you". Then you learn the curses--in any language.

I agree! I don't know how people use the audio programs without a booklet, or without haveing studied the language. Even when I use these programs in my car, I am picturing the words, or remembering the conjugations, or thinking, "No one uses the full phrase where I live". Like with "Eso si que es". Where I live, everyone just ssays "Eso!".

I studied French Spanish and Italian in school. I bought a Pimsleur program in French. I followed along mostly, but when I tried to learn language I had not studied like Portuguese or Japanese with an audio program, I found it very difficult.
Before my March trip, I borrowed an advanced Spanish program, verbal only (not Pimsleur) and that had no English on it at all, it was impossible!

If you need a lesson guide or booklet, I recommend checking out your local library to see which one you find workable for you before purchasing. My library carries great cd programs. Many bookstores won't take them back once opened. I believe Pimsleur still guarantees theirs though.

I haven't had any difficulty using the Pimsleur program without the dialogues written down. When I did Russian, I had long lost high school Russian (1 1/2 years) embedded somewhere in my brain, so I had a minimal foundation.

I do speak very good French (although it is not fluent) so I had a romance language base when I used the CD's for Spanish and Italian. I had never studied those languages before though.

The key to Pimsleur is that you cannot get frustrated if you play the CD's once and don't get it all. You won't. You play each lesson over and over until you do get it and don't give up! It is not a contest to see how fast you can do the CD's. Just make sure you learn them well before moving on.

I do remember asking someone a question in Russia. I guess my accent must have been good because I sure got a rapid fire answer in Russian. I had no idea what the person said because it was either said too quickly or the words were not in my vocabulary. I simply asked them to slow it down and told them I was and Americanka. They slowed it down and used hand signals and we got where we needed to go.

I think the Pimsleur tapes are terrific, and review with them all the time - French. I really am tempted to get the Spanish tape program (I live in Miami, and Spanish is almost essential here). I already had a background in French when I started those, so it was easy. However, with only one semester of Spanish in college (50 years ago!), I just don't know. I also hate to take time away from my study of French, which is ongoing. But Spanish would certainly be much more useful to me, and I could practice using it daily here. I mainly would like to communicate with my yard man!

Sue, I minored in French but had never taken a Spanish course. I now am at the level where I know the numbers and can carry on very simple conversations and can give people directions.

A couple of weeks ago in the courthouse where I do a lot of legal work, a woman was trying to fill out a form and the guy "assisting" did not know a word of Spanish. The woman spoke almost no English. Believe me when my Spanish is better than someone's English, that person's English is pretty well non existent. I told the woman to just put her address in the space and the guy who knew no Spanish looked at me like I was a genius.

In the world of the blind, the one eyed man is king. What I told the woman wasn't much.

I never used Pimsleur for French because my level is much too high for Pimsleur--although I thought about buying the French Plus tapes to review.

If you are concentrating on French, I would just stick with that. It is way too difficult to do two languages at once. In fact, my Spanish has confused my French. I was asked something in French and the answer came out half in French and half in Spanish. That stops if I have to speak a foreign language a lot. I do remember being in Germany and working on my very pathetic German. I then had trouble switching to French. The problem is that you concentrate on one language and the other one takes a back seat.

I did read about the person studying German and Arabic at the same time. I wouldn't even attempt that.

I do agree that Pimsleur would be improved if the dialogues were printed out, but I have done well without the script. It is funny, however, when you see words written out in other contexts. Sometimes you are really surprised by the way they are spelled.

I just hope that the US is going to have more bilingual education for English speaking children so that more native English speakers will learn Spanish when it is so easy for them to do so. We need to encourage bilingualism among the English speaking American community because it is needed--and because English speaking children will be at a disadvantage applying for certain jobs if they do not speak Spanish. Reality is what reality is in the US these days.

Sue4 FYI -- check your French set packaging. My kit came with a $50 off coupon for the next program I purchase.