>:O

I enjoy Patrick's comments. I sent my email.

Don't everybody rush to judgement, Patrick probably got pulled from participation so that he can be a secret monitor.

I have watched Patrick a few times be too harsh and sarcastic with responses. I think that alienates first time posters.

Not a surprise at all that he would get booted. And I could see myself getting booted when I am too political, the price yah pay on these boards if you don't follow along. Fodors is offering you a forum for expression here I do think you owe something back for that.

Not surprised at all that he got booted.
..that he decided to email you on it now that is something else LOL.

But Sarah, he's mild compard to a few others who only think their choices are right and put down what you might like.
A few who insult us who have less than admirable typos. He's not mean like that.

He said to someone today "what if I called you a stupid idiot". I found him to be a bit caustic and harsh in my recent return to the european forum. Perhaps I caught him on off days.

Its probably the beginning of a lot of people getting banned from time to time.
My experience in a number of chat rooms is that good forums do that from time to time to keep people in check.

I can get banned for getting political in my discussion so I have to watch that.

Of course if others are worse that should not go on. I suspect this is something they are just starting to do. And perhaps someone complained today, high time in my mind. but again perhaps I have just watched his responses on off days, like today.

I want to go on record as saying that I regard Patrick as one of the "key" posters here & I have made this point in my e-mail to Fodors.

Haste ye back, Patrick!

Jim

With the abuse I have taken in the past from sick trolls Sarah and also abuse that others here have taken I find Patrick being banned ridiculous. BTW, the trolls went on week after week. They evidently were finally banned but it sure took a long time for Fodor's to do so.

So now that I have put in my two cents worth I will probably be banned! Well think my laptop hard drive is going out so I won't be able to post until it is repaired anyway, sigh!

Howard, I am sure you are emailing these various threads to Patrick. I just want to give him my best wishes and good thoughts, Patrick is a fine gentleman and I greatly admire him. Thank you.

Patrick??? Our Patrick is booted?? I haven't been online much but based on the *many* posts of Patrick's I've read, I am utterly shocked and appalled. Unless he went off the deep end, which I sincerely doubt, I can't imagine he would ever say something deserving of censorship and alienation.

What's the deal Fodors???*

Or maybe Patrick is having a bit of a lark with us all.

Has Patrick become our "Sacrificial Lamb?"

I sent my email. Patrick is a very valuable poster!

Unbelievable. They allow the most vicious poster on this board get away with blatant profanity, but kick Patrick off. Stranger things have happened, I suppose ... but ...

There are two issues here:

1) what could have happened that was out of the ordinary that caught the notice of the editors and

2) the action taken as a result of 1), and whether it was fair or unfair of the editors to have taken it.

As several people have already spoken about 2) I'll take a stab at 1):

In the 'Whining About Wine in Seattle' thread one thing occurred that was unusual: an opinion (email) was posted by a party who was allegedly not the author of that opinion/email. (I say, 'allegedly' since the editors cannot rely on anyone's say-so; they have to verify the authorship independently, no matter who the poster involved was, or what his/her reputation is on the board.)

In the terms of use, users agree not to imposter anyone else. What might have happened here is that the editors took a very strict interpretation of this rule and decided that it was also a violation of the terms of use to play spokesman for a third party.

Complicating matters was that the email/opinion was supposedly the official opinion of a commercial enterprise. One of the terms of use is also that no commercial promotion is allowed. Again, it is possible that the editors took a very strict interpretation of this rule, and maintained that to undertake to solicit a commercial establishment for their reaction to a negative opinion constituted soliciting that establishment to promote themselves.

It's a stretch, but I can't find anything else unusual.

Several posters I know were banned in past months or years and when they were,the offensive posts were deleted. So I don't think we are seeing what banned him.

Sarah, you are lucky if anyone on Fodors has only called you an idiot.
If you can get over it, you might enjoy reading some of the older threads where people really tell Fodorites what they think of them, where they should go, what they should do with their body parts and by the way, have you been called a troll lately ? how about being accused of posting with multiple screennames? or has anyone told you that you are stalking them?
Idiot is practically a term of endearment around here LOL
Fodors is for Grown-Ups should be the new Slogan.

Another thing that annoys me. Someone called a poster a pediphile and it was not removed til several wrote to the editors.

I agree. If no one has called you one of the following:
cretin
moron
idiot
stupid idiot
imbecile
demented nerd
unbright illegitimate child
lunatic
uninformed ignoramous
bird brained troll

or all of the above,
you are one who asks only questions or says things that are ultra polite at all times.

Sent my email. Also posted on the US thread. If the editors throw out key posters, this will become as boring a forum as Frommers. And that stinks.

I belong to another forum where every post is edited. That stinks, too. Boring as boring can be.

You know, I've sometimes read some of the more heated exchanges and felt that Patrick hasn't always been the one in the right.

But I also think he's got a load of good information and is a dedicated provider of that info. And he's never dull! And between he and some others that argue but never give anything back, I'd keep Patrick around anytime. I think suspending him wasn't the best first move in this case and think it should be recinded.

For the originator of this thread: Howard R.

There is a post on the US board by a writer using the name of Banned Patrick who says he is back with a new email address and a new screen name.

Do you know if this is a copy cat, or the real guy making a comeback to respond to his accusers?

I am not good at deducing the identify of the author from wording, writing styles, or line of logic.

Now, it will be interesting to see how long this reincarnation lasts.
A False Dimitry, or the real thing?

OK, I had to register a hotmail account and a new name.
Sue_xx_yy, that is at least a somewhat reasonable explanation for what has happened. When the manager of the restaurant emailed me and said she couldn't find the post that I was talking about, I copied and pasted her email. It was real, but you are right that there would be no way to make sure of that. But if that is why I was banned, couldn't the editor who banned me at least explain that to me?

Meanwhile that wasn't an "opinion" about a restaurant -- it was the statement about wine prices which I found to be totally wrong and asked the restaurant for clarification which I then posted. What if someone said that a particular hotel charges $500 when in fact in charges $79? Shouldn't a person be allowed to correct wrong information? Again -- we're not talking about opinion here, we're talking about statements made as if they were facts.

And Sarah, as I've said on another thread, I really hope you aren't serious that when I used the phrase "what IF we called you an idiot" to show a poster who was being nasty and name calling that such behavior isn't acceptable -- you actually thought my example was rude. Since when it is nasty to tell a poster engaged in name calling that he shouldn't do it? This unfortunately is not the first time I've been called nasty for trying to keep others from being nasty! A review of my posts will usually show that when I am "sharp" or "rude" to someone it is TOTALLY because they are being rude or nasty to someone else. I really don't mind insulting people who are being insulting! And I'm sorry that you do mind that.

OOPS. bad typing I mishit the keys. The word is: Identity. I missed the t key and hit the f.
I should do better.

brookwood, "BannedPatrick" sounds like the "Real Patrick" to me. I'm pretty darned certain it is he.

janisj, you've got one of those too? Isn't it fun for snarky people to counter everything you post on the board?

BannedPatrick is Patrick in disguise. Welcome back to the board, Patrick!

brookwood,
ha, ha...now you're gonna get banned for typing 'mishit'.

By the way, no one has called me any of those names yet. But give me time. I once did have words with Patrick, though. Then we made up. That's what grown-ups do.

I added my two cents to Fodors direct e-mail. Something is definitely wrong here. Patrick has been personally helpful to me. A couple of years ago I looked back at his e-mail address (before they were eliminated on the site) and found him. Patrick responded to me immediately saying you found me!! Certainly Fodors owes him a direct response as to what he did to offend Fodors.

There are so many rude people in this forum (such as, you're so stupid for not posting a question properly!) who could definitely be dumped.

Even BannedPatrick should e-mail this thread to [email protected] and [email protected]

By the way, BannedPatrick - - if you created a new hotmail account just to get (temporary?) access here - - why not display it publicly here? There may be private correspondence worth sharing with others who wish to write to you. It's not as if you'd be giving up the identity of your REAL e-mail address.

I've never particularly understood the reluctance of so many to post an e-mail address here.

I find it interesting that this thread starts off...

"Patrick emailed me that when he tried to post this afternoon..."

...posted by someone who doesn't display an e-mail address.

How can there be "bonding"... in an "off-forum" way between any of the members of this "community" when e-mail addresses are universally kept concealed?

Ben Haines, Marilyn, me - - we seem to be the rare exception - - why?

Well, sticks and stones might break your bones, but you're only a true fodorite when you've been banned yourself! WELCOME TO THE CLUB, PATRICK.

hdm, you just typed that word too!! I'm deeply offended, and you should be banned!!

:-D

:-O
OH NO! I'll be BANNED FOR LIFE!
(Is that like being President for Life?)

I emailed BannedPatrick to welcome him back but it was returned.

rex, I used to always list my real email address. But then there are people here like wiseguy who are too immature to handle internet situations and feel compelled to fill mailboxes with nastiness, so I no longer do.
Howard had my email address because we've met and talked in New York. He recently emailed me regarding a specific problem, so his address was at hand and I emailed him.

But normally I've become a firm believer that anything that needs to be said here, should and could be said in front of all. I'm not big on personal emails.

I really don't intend to keep that hotmail account and it even took a while to figure out how to do it. I'm a one email address -- one screen name kind of guy.

<<normally I've become a firm believer that anything that needs to be said here, should and could be said in front of all. I'm not big on personal emails...>>

Well, you actually would get no disagreement from me on this.

I believe in adhering strictly to PUBLIC answer to PUBLICLY asked questions here - - when it comes to travel <i>content</i>.

This thread is not about that, so I thought that off-forum correspondence might be useful on some aspects of this, in some situations between person x and person y.

If I could type, I might have become something else in life. When I was in college, word processors were science fiction.

I had a devil of time writing anything. Fortunately, my major prof. typed as badly as I did and took pity on me.

I had to hire my thesis done so it would get by the chief censor: the dean of the graduate school. I remember he evaluated the work by pulling out a set of calipers set to exactly 2 inches and measuring the margins. Then he performed the acid test. Did the abstract of the work contain no more than 200 words. After measuring, he would count the words on a sample of 3 lines, take the average number of words per line, then count the number of lines, and multiply. If more than 200, the unfortunate author had to exit the room, get with the dean's secretary, and do a word by word count. If more than 200, the whole abstract had to be re-written.

Just think, I might have become a Ph. D. historian and had to learn to sell insurance for a living. One fellow with whom I was in school did just that, and lives in a $500,000 house in a Birmingham suburb. (Where $500,000 buys about 4,500 square feet of nice house.)

Just think, if Patrick had not gotten canned, we would not have this much fun.
Dull day until I read the thread about his being canned.

Just goes to show the futility of kicking someone off the board. It thought the whole idea was foolish to start with.

But, Random House owns the board, so I suppose the editor in chief can give the boot to whomever he or she chooses.

At any rate the evictee is unevicted, and back making with the keys.
I wish I could type as well and write as well. Such literary skill, and effective sentence structure, make me a little envious. Some people just have talent along those lines.

But Patrick is not the only one. There are quite a few people on this board who write with great effectiveness.

... how utterly silly ... all the guy has to do is get a new screename. One vast electronic kidergarten. And someone said this is a site for grown-ups. Wow!

I had a flat tire on my way home tonight and sat in my car in the rain for an hour and a half waiting for AAA. Had already spent the evening complaining to the members of my chamber group that I was getting irritable in my old age. And now I figure I will sit at the computer till I get wound down enough to go to sleep, but I find that Patrick has been banned. It never ends.

But enough about me. Patrick is one of the most interesting posters on this board. To me I guess that means he has a lot to say about things that interest me. He certainly spends enough time traveling to have a lot to say about a lot of places.

I guess what I'm saying here is, if Howard (forgive me, I'm still laughing) can rave on and on about his Paris dinner of children in cheese sauce, then Patrick should be able to say whatever he wants to about wine. Or to whine about whatever he wants without fear of being banned.

Free Patrick.

Nikki, what is this about &quot;Howard can rave on and on about his Paris dinner with children in cheese sauce&quot;?????

A dinner in Paris that consisted of children in cheese sauce!! What post did I miss?????

I know it has been a long day (and an hour and a half waiting in a car for AAA is not fun), but please, do explain, LOL. Fodor's is getting more unreal by the moment!

Free Patrick!!

Here is what I'm sending to Fodor's:

&quot;I would just say for the record that this has been a great board for me in my own trip planning. Patrick has been one of a core of veterans on this site whom I have found helpful to read.

Initially, I thought it was odd that the moderator and even a link to the moderator was not easily reachable. However, Patrick and a couple of the other veterans acted as &quot;self-policing&quot; calling people on their rude comments, etc.

A message board can not provide the thoroughness of professional researchers who evaluate travel recommendations. What it can do is provide a human face and anecdotes to fill in those unspoken gaps in the travel literature. Please reinstate Patrick and let the conversations continue. Thank you!&quot;



Hopefully this matter will be corrected soon, Patrick.

... uh-oh, seems a few have allowed fodors site to become their life's center. If Pat is so interesting he's essential, scotty, show me the beam!