Gender in nouns is unpredictable and makes no sense. Milk is masculine??? What could be more feminine than MILK ?

The standard explanation is that it is the word that has the gender, not the object itself. eg., in german die Magd [a maiden- feminine] becomes das Maedchen [a girl - neuter] because of the -chen ending.
i've never found that terribly helpful myself, but that's why latte/ lait [milk] is masculine.

bra is also masculine...what I tell my students is that they need to learn the gender of every noun as they learn the noun itself (but do they ever listen? Mais non!)☺

"they need to learn the gender of every noun as they learn the noun itself" you're so true msn! :-)

oops meant you're so RIGHT or it's so true, choose the one you want ;-)

ttt

Hi

I live in a part of France where very few residents speak any English.

They will be delighted to try and help.

The younger ones may even be keen to improve their English.

Peter

On my trip to France, I too was perplexed by when to say madame or when to say mademoiselle, especially with women under 30, which is the most likely group that could be either married or unmarried. So, when greeting women, I often just said "Bonjour" without adding the other part. I felt like it was "unfinished" as someone said, but at the same time, didn't want to risk a worse mistake by calling someone the wrong title.

If I went with Madame to be safe in situations where I was unsure / couldn't look for a ring, would someone who is in fact a Mademoiselle be offended?

What about the other way around - calling a married woman a Mademoiselle?

Thanks!

I can see myself messing this up royally.. I am so bad with determining age, and who may be older or younger than I with no ring... should be interesting.

Tara, despite what people often say on this board you don't *have* to finish greetings with Monsieur, Madame, etc. in French. It's not impolite to simply say bonjour, au revoir, merci.(Although it is nice to add "bonne journée", "bonne soirée", etc. when saying au revoir.)
The only time I would use Monsieur/Madame/Mademoiselle would be when saying "Excusez-moi" in order to ask a stranger (person in street, shop assistant) a question. And if in doubt (i.e. madame versus mademoiselle) I'll leave the title out.

Incidentally, I'm married but get called mademoiselle all the time in France. Doesn't really bother me - I take it as a compliment that I look young!

(It's easier in Belgium where I now live, as they almost always use Madame for all women, whether married or not.)

Kathryn, let me add a little bit to the Madame versus Mademoiselle issue.

In business, a woman is addressed as "madame" if she is at the executive level. Calling her "mademoiselle" would be considered rude.

Otherwise, a woman younger than you can be addressed as "mademoiselle" especially if she is in a service position. You are not expected to call a 21 year old waitress "madame" if she happens to be wearing a wedding ring.

Couples, on the other hand, are generally addressed as "monsieur et madame" without regard to whether or not they are married. (I had to brief my ex-girlfriend about this lest she think I had told people we were married. Ha!)

There is a slang expression you hear from people like cab drivers for "monsieur et madame" which sounds like "monsieurdame" rolled together.

If this is not confusing enough for you, both men and women lawyers are both addressed with neither "monsieur" nor "madame" but with the professional title of Maître.

You will have this all figured out on the plane home. :)

Just skip the honorifics; they are not required. Say <i>bonjour,</i> <i>merci,</i> and so on without them. It makes things much simpler.

I agree completely with hanl and anthonyga about leaving the title out especially when in doubt. I would add the title when I want to be slightly more formal. Also you could just say &quot;monsieur&quot; or &quot;madame&quot; as a very light greeting, without bonjour nor bon soir.

I did learn that a croissant is masculine. I think when I begin learning Italian I'll pay more attention to gender identity! I now understand David Sedaris' comments about buying multiple items rather than a single thing, not knowing it's gender. LOL

Update on french studying: I was able to confirm our reservation in Paris in French... did pretty good!