Paris trip report: bad apartment blues!--Long post!
 

Hi Fodorites! I'm new here, but been lurking a while, during the planning stages of our summer "vacation" to Paris. I just feel that I must warn others what to beware of about Paris, most particularly the apartment rental business. A little background: We are a family of four expats living in Germany, kids ages 8 and 13, not necessarily widely traveled, but not completely inexperienced either. Read on. (BTW, this rental agency is not one I have seen mention of on this forum, in case anyone wonders... but the apartment is in the 12th district, not far from the Gare de Lyon).

First, I originally told the owner that we would arrive sometime between 3 and 5 p.m. on 24 July, and he indicated that I should not arrive before 4 p.m. due to the market clean up, and no place to park. So I told him between 4:30 and 5:30, and then he says he hopes we don't arrive too late, since he must drive 600 km that evening after giving us the keys. So we get there around 4 p.m., I think, and then he wasn't ready for us anyway. His bags and clothes were everywhere, and the linens for the children's beds were not dry and so the beds were not ready. Further, the apartment was definitely not as clean as I expected it should be.

When I asked about the internet connection, he said I needed to use this extra modem cable that he had, and to use a certain phone number so that it was free. I did tell him that I had a network card in my laptop, and I thought it was supposed to be a high-speed internet connection, but he insisted that the modem cable was the way it had to be done. He gathered his things and left, without leaving passwords to the internet connection.

We spent an hour and a half trying to get the internet to work, looking through his papers (at his direction, since he couldn't remember the user name and password) and the TV didn't work (those extra 100 channels he said he had) either. He finally realizes that the whole thing won't work because he unplugged the cable modem service to plug in the computer modem cable that we didn't need anyway, because we should have been connecting to the high speed cable he had in the first place. All of this was not an especially great way to start the week. I told him during all of the phone calls that if we couldn't get the internet problem solved, we'd have to go stay somewhere else, since my husband had work that had to be done while we were there.

The towels in the bathroom were not very nice, they didn't match, and were very old. I guess they were clean, but I don't keep towels that are that old, even to use for rags. The clothes washer had a broken knob, and he gave us pliers to use if we needed to use the washer. There was only one tiny empty closet for us to use, and no empty drawers to put our clothes in. I expected the apartment to look like it did in the pictures, and it definitely did not, since there was much more clutter and things sitting around. I expected that this was an apartment that no one actually lived in, maybe that they had purchased with the intent of renting it out short term. I certainly didn't expect that the person who lived there would just be running out the door when we arrived.

I was really taken aback by the neighborhood, as well (12th district, BTW). We really didn't feel comfortable there. In retrospect, we shouldn't have ever given him any money, and found other accommodation immediately. I was, however, willing to try it in spite of the initial impressions, since we had said we'd rent the apartment for the week in good faith.

We had dinner and returned to the apartment by 9 p.m. for the night. We were awake most of the night. The person upstairs came slamming into the building at around 11 p.m., and had the TV on loud, and slammed around their apartment until 4 a.m. Monday morning. After that, we felt that we definitely could not have a pleasant stay in Paris in the apartment, and we left, receiving our 500 Euro deposit, and 400 Euros of the rental fee (which was only a portion of the total fee we paid), after much negotiation with the owner of the apartment. He also intimated that we had set out to purposely cause this problem, since he felt that ever since we arrived, we'd wanted to leave (due to my comments during the internet crisis).

We paid 580 Euros for one night of substandard lodging in a crappy apartment. I wouldn't even call this a one star accommodation. This was by far the worst experience we have ever had with accommodations anywhere. I've e-mailed the agency to let them know how dissatisfied we are, and request a refund, but don't expect to get it, or any response at all, for that matter.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Is this normal for a vacation apartment rental? Not clean, funky towels, no storage space, icky neighborhood? If you plan to rent an apartment, and these kinds of things would bother you, ASK QUESTIONS!!! Sorry for the length of this post, but I hope it helps others.

Hi DW,

Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. Thanks for the warning.

>Is this normal for a vacation apartment rental?<

No.

How about telling us who rented this to you?

>We paid 580 Euros for one night of substandard lodging ...<

If it was an agency, perhaps you might be able to get some money back.

((I))

Did you research the neighborhood before hand? Sorry you had such a disappointing stay.

Hi ira and Sandi,

Thanks for reassuring me a bit that this was not a normal experience. And to clarify, the price of the rental was 140 Euros per night, not 580, 580 was just what we ended up spending for that one night, since the owner wouldn't give us all of our money back when we left.

Anyway, I was posting here to see what others had to say about this experience before I bashed the agency (after all, it could have been that my expectations were too high, I suppose!). So, for what it's worth, the agency is ahparis.com.
And Sandi, I did as much research as I knew how to do, I guess, but I have to say that my biggest problem is probably that I expect the rest of the world to do what I would do in any given situation (like provide fairly nice, matching towels, not try to rent out an apartment that is in a somewhat dodgy area, etc.) that I'm always surprised when it doesn't turn out that way. My bad, maybe I'll learn someday.

Thanks for the replies!

Dreamweaver, I'm sorry you had such an awful experience. I find the accomodation can really affect my trips, too. It certainly isn't standard, but occasionally we've probably all had the odd bad experience. You may just have to chalk it up to experience.

I've long since given up trying to suffer poor accomodation, and have become adept at checking out and running to the nearest posh establishment. It may hurt my pocket, but at least it doesn't hurt my memories.

Do tell us the rental agent though.

I had a similar experience once. But, it WAS my fault. I didn't check well, say here at Fodors...what the area around St. Severin church was like.
Also, I didn't know about the parisjaunes pages...
Anyway, my "landlord" is going to credit my costs on that apartment to one of his others in the Marais when I'm ready.
It was all my fault ... I think.

Really sorry for your bad experience! Guess things turned out alright as "it's only money" and "thank goodness no one got hurt" -LOL.

While I don't know how you could have known about the apartment being bad and not looking like the photos, I'm guessing posting here on Fodors people could have described the atmosphere of the 13th to you, and/or maybe someone had dealt with the agency before.

You would be doing all your fellow travellers a favor to tell who the agent was and which apt was the problem. You also should really leave a review on slowtrav.com. Unlucky!

Okay, the agency was: www.ahparis.com

Apt. 109

And, if anyone wants to know, the hotel we fled to was very nice, but closer to Disneyland Paris, in Lognes. It's a Quality/Choice Hotel, www.lognes-marnelavallee.quality-hotel.fr. Lovely staff, fairly good service, as european hotels go.

as a private owner myself I do think it is outrageous!
if ahparis is a society, frighten them saying that you're going to tell the DGCCRF( La Direction générale de la Concurrence, de la Consommation et de la Répression des Fraudes,they surely know it like everybody else in France)that protects consumers against abuses like that (they can make a restaurant close down for bad hygiene for ex)
if you can read french :
http://www.finances.gouv.fr/DGCCRF/0...ns.htm?ru=01#4
good luck! (now your flat is 140€!)
corinne

How awful for you! I rented 2 places thru VRBO (Paris and Amsterdam) i June, they were wonderful, spotless, better than described on the internet.

I hope you get a refund and generate some bad publicity. Nobody wants to fly all the way to Paris to stay in a dump.

Hi Corrine,

Thanks for that info. I can't read French, but I would like to report the company to a better business bureau or something like in France. It seems ahparis is a company, not a society, so did I understand that the DGCCRF can't help in this case? And, If I write them in English, do you suppose they can help? Thanks!

society (société) is simply a company in French. Cocofromdijon simply used what is called a false friend.

thank you Michael I was about to say it is the same for them. :-)
I can help you with a french translation if you wish, I'm not sure they can read english!
on your size try to translate this page to have an idea of what you can do and say.
http://www.finances.gouv.fr/DGCCRF/0...5/heberger.htm
I'm sure someone here will give you an efficient online translator.
coco : [email protected]

Dreamweaver, you were so lucky that you were able to find a hotel room at the very last minute.

In 1990 we rented an apartment, dump would be a compliment, in Paris based on the neighborhood, Pl de Furstenburg, and the lovely photos that the French owner who lived near my husband's office, showed him. We had responded to an ad in a local French/English newspaper. Not only did she stick my husband for her lunch, but she stuck us with two weeks of unbearable living conditions.

She said that the lovely antique furniture had belonged to her parents ... read, old old delapidated junk. The towels were threadbare, the oilcloth (!) that covered the dining table, was full of cigarette burns, and the refrig had to be totally cleaned (by DH who has a stronger stomach), because it had been shut off with food left in it. If the bathroom door was open, you couldn't open the front door. The mattress was on the floor - no bed frame!! I guess the best part was that it was so dark, (overlooked a lightwell) that we couldn't see the apartment clearly.

We had no recourse because we had rented directly from the owner in San Francisco.

We had similar experiences in two other apartments. You have to start with the neighborhood, and then try to locate an apartment. Even then you are taking chances.

I had no idea that there was an agency that you could complain to. I'll etch that info in stone.

We tried constantly for most of the two weeks to find a hotel that we could stay in for the remainder of our stay, to no avail. We would have had to move three or four times during that period. Since DH was there for work and gone all day, that would have been a real pain.

Finally the Hotel Angleterre (sp) down the block, which I called every single day, had a vacancy on our last night. I absolutely refused to leave Paris from that apartment.

Having a 24/7 local contact is important, but is not always the answer, as we have found out numerous times.

One semi-decent place had no living room curtains. It was a top floor rear apartment, and the entire neighborhood could look directly into it. The 'claimed' that the curtains were being cleaned and would be hung in a few days. Over a week into our 3 week stay, after much pestering, they finally put up bedsheets .... we couldn't open them. That was their final answer - we never did see the 'cleaned' curtains. The apartment was cute, although the kitchen was not that clean and very the drawers were cluttered.

This was through a well known agency, Chez Vous. So you never know, you always take a chance no matter how much reseach you do. Personal recommendations o Fodors, Slow Travel are your best bet, but they are rarely available for your apartment.

You really lucked out in July, our dump was rented during February.

I don't think this is that outrageous as other folks, none of it sounds extremely unusual for the amount you were spending, except the problems with the internet thing and the beds not being ready.

You can't blame the agency for your dislike of the neighborhood or that neighbors are noisy. I just stayed in that neighborhood myself and wasn't that thrilled with it, but you chose it and part of the problem is that you chose based on price. That is a cheaper part of Paris; I didn't feel dangerous there, though, and had done considerable research ahead of time regarding cafes, places to shop, wine bars, etc. I just didn't care for it that much, but it's not horrific.

I think the problem is what you paid,k only 140 euro for an apt. that apparently was for at least four people (you mention children's beds). You can't expect a lot for that rate. Also, apartment living can be noisy; noisy neighbors are not uncommon, and cities can be noisy on top of that

That only thing I find unusual is the problems with the internet connection and with meeting someone on arrival (somewhat), and the beds not being ready.

But, you chose this kind of rental and arrival conditions should be known when you rent an apartment. I always understand them when I rent and prefer Parisian agencies, not the kind of things where you meet people at apartments, etc. I know some other people expect real personal service and for someone to meet them at the apt. I don't, I'd rather set my own schedule and go to an apt. office to pick up a key as I never know when I'm going to get through customs, get into Paris, etc.

It would be nice to have better towels, I agree, you have a point there, and the beds should have been made up and the linens dry.

There is nothing unusual about someone renting an apt. where someone actually lives. That isn't a reason to complaint, either. Lots of agencies do that, and if you wanted an apt. that was never owner-occupied and solely for rental, you should have specified that. There are some agencies that deal in them, or would know which ones were or weren't. I've stayed in owner-occupied places and prefer ones that are solely rentals myself. I got some space in any empty closet but did not get empty drawers, either, but hadn't expected them. I wasn't there that long, and sort of use my suitcase for a drawer anyway, when traveling. Some things didn't work exactly right in the ones I rented, but I wasn't staying in expensive places.

So, I just don't find most of what happened that unusual and think this is a good warning to others not to assume certain things nor to expect a lot from a cheap rental. It also is an example of why I am not one constantly urging others to rent vacation apts all the time when in town for only a couple days, and for those who don't know the city, but I know a lot of people on Fodors are always telling people to rent apartments.

I agree w/ Christina - some of your complaints are certainly reasonable - but others are just the way things are.

MANY holiday rentals in Europe are somepne's home that are just rented out seasonally. And lack of storage is typical in most small European flats. Now - not having ANY empty drawers might be a problem. But closets are in short supply most everywhere.

The internet/TV snafu is a problem. But old-ish towels and little storage -- that is what you'd expect in a budget apartment and be very pleased if you got better.

And noisy neighbors - you could get that in a €50 per night place or a €300 place.

I think Christina bring up an excellent point. The times I have been disappointed in a place I chose, was when I was trying to save money (i.e., a 57 euro room with shared toilet in Amsterdam was not so great).

That said, certainly it would be nice if everything worked as promised regarding TV, internet and the beds made up on time.

Sorry to hear about your experience. The apartment not quite being ready isnt really that bad since he did take care of it and of course he can do nothing about neighbors stomping about. The missing nob sounds farily unsubtantial to me. However, the towels, clutter and general cleanlyness is unaccebtable. The internet issue was also bad.

Please dont generalize the 12th as one neighborhood. I live in the 12th and parts of it are lovely. The area you chose tends to be younger with night clubs and bars. It is not terribly upscale but is far from being a dumpy neighborhood. I dont know that I would pick it as a family traveling however. I think you simply made a bad choice for yourself. There is nothing wrong with the neighborhood.

The part of the 12th I live in is much quiter and has a more haussman look.

Hi again everybody,

Well, the above comments in the "you get what you pay for" vein are not entirely unexpected, after lurking on the forum for sometime, and seeing that there are always comments of that nature.

However, I do feel that if you pay money (any amount, large or small) to stay overnight somewhere, you should fully expect and be entitled to beds made when you arrive (we made them OURSELVES after the linens finished air drying, BTW), towels that are fairly new and usable (these even had old stains in places), and a non-cluttered environment with all the appliances in top working condition.

I'm well aware that European houses and apartments are not flush with closets, I've lived in Germany for 11 years, 5 of them in a German house, with not one closet in it. When I said there was only one empty closet, I was including the possibility of empty wardrobes as well, not just (built-in) closets.

Yes, we chose this kind of rental, but not solely on the basis of cost. I had a reservation booked at the 3 star in Lognes, closer to Disney, for 150 Euros for a two bedroom hotel apartment/suite, before I changed plans and booked the apartment in Paris. I wanted to be closer to Paris, and the decision was based partly on that not on saving 10 Euro a night.

As for the 12th district, I didn't see that much of it, just mostly between the apartment and the Gare de Lyon, and that I didn't like. When I say "neighborhood" I don't necessarily mean what Parisians mean, I guess. I don't mean the whole 12th district is a dodgy place (although, we ended up having dinner later in the week at a brassierie just outside the Nation Metro station, and my husband has been sick since Friday because of the food, though I don't know whether that area is the 11th or 12th).

My expectations were obviously not met, and I'm sure we won't ever be renting anything like that again, from anyone. My husband and I are quite in agreement that the next time we go on holiday, we'll stay in a great hotel with all the amenities, since a vacation in this kind of situation is not a vacation at all.

It is too bad that some persons do not hold up their end of the bargain. I know I have looked at the ahparis website myself so this is good info. There are only a couple of folks that are mentioned on here regularly w/good reviews, Paris Perfect being the most frequent. I guess I have been fortunate as I use vrbo a lot & have also rented in Paris w/no problems. Better luck next time. But I would continue to try & get more of my $$ back.

Hi dw,

>... the price of the rental was 140 Euros per night, not 580, 580 was just what we ended up spending for that one night,...<

It is still outrageous. Most hotels charge for one night for no shows. Some may go as high as 3.

Have you contacted ahparis and asked for a refund?

If so, and they don't help, report all of them to the local society.

Also post your experience at www.tripadvisor.com.

((I))

<the "you get what you pay for" vein are not entirely unexpected, after lurking on the forum for sometime, and seeing that there are always comments of that nature.> I think there are often comments of that nature because it is often true. I found this out the hard way myself, is why I posted along those lines.

<you should fully expect and be entitled to beds made when you arrive, towels that are fairly new and usable, and a non-cluttered environment with all the appliances in top working condition.> It's called a hotel ;-) As you and your husband have already decided, it seems like you'll be happier in a nice hotel next time.

I think your post will be helpful to others who are considering apartment rentals. I know several people who rent in Paris every summer and have found great deals. So fortunately not all apartments have the problems you ran into.

I may be in the minority here, but I do not agree that "You can't expect a lot for that rate" - - for 140 euro night (roughly $170?) you should be able to expect towels that don't double as rags to wash the car with and beds made up (with dry linen) when you arrive - those are not fancy, expensive amenities only reserved for upper crust travelers - they are BASICS!

I don't blame you for being upset with the overall experience, it sounds like you were NOT expecting the Ritz, but you were (rightfully) expecting what was advertised. Inexpensive doesn't necessarily always mean messy and dirty as implied in a few of the posts above - just look at the numerous budget hotels that we recommend on this forum everyday. There might not be a mint on the pillow, or someone catering to your every whim, but the hotel/apartment is clean, the beds are made and the proprietor usually appears to be expecting you. The owner of dreamweaver's apt acted like he didn't know they were arriving (i.e. his clothes & bags were scattered about; remember Dreamweaver arrived when he wanted her to - she didn't show up early and surprise him!), he was not prepared, he was clueless about the internet service he advertised, and he really didn't care. The noise and the neighborhood really can't be blamed on the agency; a rowdy tenant can happen anywhere and parts of the 12 are not picturesque; however the agency should be held accountable when a tenant pays for advertised amenities and those amenities are inadequate or nonexistent.

Thank you for posting your experience here, you may have saved some other family from a disappointment. If you can, could you please post the address of the apartment and any coordinating rental number assigned to it by ahparis? If you have already included this info and I missed it, I apologize. I hope you have the opportunity for follow up on Coco's (Corinne's) advice. She owns a beautiful establishment and is keenly aware of what is and is not acceptable as far as running and advertising a hospitality venue in France. Good luck!

I went to the apartment website and I think I found the listing by narrowing down the areas - it's the only apartment listed at 140 Euros per night in that area, I believe.

The apartment looks quite presentable, and basing it on the pictures alone, I also would have been surprised with ratty towels, a washer that needed pliers to work and general uncleanliness.

However, I also realize that sometimes the pictures don't match reality - this is something that stays in the back of my mind and makes me hesitant when considering apartments for vacation stays.

Hear, Hear, Marge..that is way over a thousand dollars a week and I would expect a lot more than what was received..there are great apts in the 6th and 7th..much closer in neigborhoods... for that price or juat a bit more! And lots of 3 star hotels, with service, for that or less.

Hope you get some compensation, dreamweaver!

I agree 100% with Margie. A renter has every right to expect cleanliness, order, and decent living conditions. Dreamweaver knew she was not renting a penthouse with a full view of the Tower, but she certainly didn't bargain for what she got.

Noise is every in every large city, we've spent quite a few night on r. St.Louis, a pricey trendy street, filled with late night noise, but we had the inside of an apartment (or) hotel has certain standards to live up to, the price has nothing to do with it. 140 euros while not expensive, is certainly not rock bottom.

Truth in advertising (including websites):

"Apartment or rent in noisey section of decent area. It's not too clean, very cluttered, raggy towels and I'm a surley landlord. There is no storage space because it is MY apartment, with my things, and I am only allowing you to rent it so that you can pay my living expenses. If you are interested in a well maintained apartment, stay home or go elsewhere. This is a business to me, nothing more.

Frankly, I have no owner's pride and no time or nor desire to keep it up. Get um in, get um out. Ask any question that you want, and I'll give you any answer you want".

Four years ago we stayed in a $1,500 a week (not that cheap four years ago) St. Louis apartment which fit the above ad to a T (all except the part about the neighborhood - which as you may know is one of the best in Paris. When we complained to the agency
all we got was, 'OH that old lady, we have asked her many times to paint, clean up the apartment, blah, blah, blah...." That agency no longer has that apartment listed, but way back then, they said that the owner had been listing with other agencies too, so I doubt that they dropped her as they had rented her place for years. I tend to think that she went with someone else. If they still listed the apartment, I would give you all of the info, but it is pointless now.

Nina

Hello again to all,

Thanks for all your supportive replies. The agency has agreed to refund commission monies for the nights we didn't stay in the apartment, but has said they cannot do anything about what we paid the owner that wasn't returned. I'll wait to see if I hear anything more from the owner.

For those of you who want to know exactly where this apartment is so you can avoid it:

7 bis Rue d'Aligre, right off the Place d'Aligre in the 12th district.

I had read about the Place d'Aligre in some Paris travel book as being a great market place, so I guess I was naive to think that meant an okay neighborhood/area/street.

So, in my neck of the woods, it's a new day, and I've made my complaints to the agency and owner, and I'm going to move on now, so I can forget it. Maybe I'll sing the praises of our favorite hotel in a little town in Austria soon, so I can say something good!

hey Margie! when I read you I thought "this is exactly what I would like to write if my english was better..." and when I reached the end of your text all I can say now is Thank you! :-x (I'm going to think I'm too cheap.. ;-) )
DW good luck and have a look at that thread, it could help for other times...
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34600709
corinne

Obviously, dreamweaver has been taken for a ride, but she obviously has a very different sense of location than the average Parisian:

- I know this is personal, but to me rue d'Aligre is no "dodgy neighborhood". dreamweaver, if you want, I can walk you through real "dodgy neighborhoods" in Paris! As a matter of fact, judging by the prices of real estate, this neighborhood is quite sought after.

- You describe Lognes as being "closer to Disney". Firstly, what a criterion ! And secondly, it is not closer, it is IN Disneyland Paris. So, if DIsneyland is your idea of perfect vacation surroundings, why not, but then, don't complain about the noise and the fact that actual people live in the neighborhood.

You are absolutely right not to be happy about the towel and drawer business - even though, at the end of the day, it's the only complaint that really holds: the internet/cable problem was only due to technical incompetence and was solved, and the linen issue, regrettable though it is, was only temporary. We are all the same, including myself of course: you always arrive at a vacation rental full of expectations, then you experience a few hiccups to start with, and there starts the psychological snowball effect, you feel everything is going from bad to worse, and you have one obsession: getting out of that rat hole. I am familiar with the feeling myself, but one or two days' cooling period normally put things in a better perspective and you suddenly realize, that, bingo, you're on vacation with a whole city/neighborhood to explore, so overreaction should be frowned upon. Apparently, the Place de Furstemberg apartment was a real ordeal, but yours was only disappointing and, if you look coolly at it, it wasn't the end of the world.

And, OK, let's be blatantly biased and non PC: in general, I am amazed by the quantity of posts in this forum related to Hôtel this over Hôtel that. People tend to over prepare and get absolutely monomaniac about the size of bathrooms, the wallpaper, the hair dryer. Focus, people, focus: Paris is no golf resort, are you going to spend your vacation in your hotel room/rental apartment ? What are you here for actually?

>The agency has agreed to refund commission monies for the nights we didn't stay in the apartment,...<

Good for them, D.

((I))

I've never rented an apartment in Paris. I'm not quite sure if I understand.

Did you have to pay for the whole stay upfront?

Is that the industry standard?

As someone else (ira?) pointed out, it seems rather outrageous to have to pay more for than one night's "penalty."

111op, when I have rented apartments in Paris, Rome and London, I have had to pay the entire rent up front. I believe this is the norm for short term vacation apartment rentals.

<<fairly good service, as european hotels go>>

That one little snippet of phrasing leads me to believe that maybe you have preconceived notions about things European, which in turn may have affected your experience.

It does sound as if the place was kind of a dump, and the owner irresponsible. But 140€ a night for an apartment for four is not much. And you have only yourself to blame for not liking the neighborhood - there are scads of resources available to check out the neighborhood, right down to the very building and street the apartment is on! Still, I think the owner should have reimbursed some of your money - maybe not all as he was left with an unrentable apartment for the remainder of the week, but certainly most of it given the condition it was in.

Now, why is your expectation of service at European hotels so low? That certainly hasn't been my experience at all.

Thanks Nikki.

It seems like a risky proposition, but I guess it tends to be cheaper than getting a hotel.

a link that could be very useful to have a look around
http://www.pagesjaunes.fr/pj.cgi?lang=en
on the right on "discover" section choose the city you want to see and then put the address :-)
you can see a whole street with its buildings as if you were standing there.
I'm still waiting for Dijon views!!>:o

StCirq,

Well, this is what I love best about forums: you try to post an honest account that will be helpful to others, and there will always be someone who picks at one phrase. Since you asked: I've lived here 11 years, and my stays at European hotels have largely been slightly inferior to stays at stateside hotels in terms of amenities and service for hotels that are rated the same number of stars or diamonds.

At the hotel in Lognes, a 3 star supposedly, we had four complete sets of towels on check in, and asked for a couple of extra bath towels (my daughter and I both have long hair, hence the need for extra towels). We got the extra towels, but the next day when the maid cleaned, we had all 6 bath towels, but only two hand towels. The next day, 6 baths, no hand towels. The entire time we were there (5 nights) we never were given clean coffee cups, we had to rinse them out ourselves, and the beer glass that my husband brought to the room from the bar was never removed. The toilet room light burned out on day 3, and was never fixed, despite repeated calls to the desk.

I've never had an experience like that in a 3 star hotel (or even a 2 star) in the States. Just my experience, and my opinion FWIW. I do understand that the star and diamond rating systems are not foolproof, and may be different depending on the continent.

This is not to say that all of my European hotel experiences have been bad, or even not so good. As I said earlier, our favorite place to go is a family run hotel in Austria, which ought to be a 4 star, but I'm not sure what it is, or if it's even rated. The service is exemplary, the food is incredible, and there's never a "hair out of place" so to speak.

Having said all that, I certainly did not have "preconceived notions" about this apartment. It was an apartment, not a hotel. Why should my european hotel experiences have anything to do with what I expect from a vacation rental?

And, to Mr. Vandalay, we well know what a dodgy neighboorhood looks like, I've lived in them myself, and so has my husband, in Cleveland. If he's uncomfortable in a place, I know its not good. And yes, it's personal opinion, I'm not trying to bash anybody. And truly, I don't care about the wallpaper, size of the bathrooms (but I must say, there was no electrical outlet in the bathroom of the apartment, so how was one supposed to use a hair dryer anyway?! :-) ), I just care that things are clean, well kept, in working order, and I feel safe with my kids there. That's all.

Yes, the other rental was worse, and I feel for her/them; but it doesn't make me feel any better about my experience.

Being "closer to Disney" was not a CRITERION, anyway. It was a locational reference for those reading the post. The only reason we went there, was that at 2:30 a.m. on the night in the apartment when we couldn't sleep, I was on the internet looking for other accomodations, and the easiest thing was to go back to the hotel that I had originally looked at in the first place. What's wrong with being closer to Disney? I have two kids, after all, and we planned to go there. And it didn't seem like it was "in Disney" to me. That would be the overpriced "Disney hotels" in Marne le Vallee (sp?). Our Metro stop was Torcy, 3 (fairly long) stops (I think) away from Disney. Sheesh.

For now, I think I'll not visit the forum anymore, because what I see (not so much in this thread, but others, like the one about smoking on planes that I peeked into today) is a lot of people who think it's okay to write things in a forum situation that polite people would never actually say to someone in person. I know this is NOT EVERYONE, or even most people, so please don't jump down my throat about what I just said. Although, since I'm not going to come back here to look at what anybody says anymore, I guess it won't matter. I'll deactivate my user id, and stay out of the forums.

Again, I do thank the supportive ones for their replies. Caio.

well, I think it was a good idea to complain to the agency about certain things to see what they would do, as you felt so strongly about it. They did refund something, so it was worth it, and the owner will be put on guard.

My comments were not meant to be critical or dismissive, but realistic based on quite a few years of experience with Parisian vacation rental apartments and what the norms are and what you get for your money (as well as the city in genearl).

One of the disadvantages to vacation rental apts is just this -- you do have to prepay, it is usually for a large amount because of long stays, and you do that sight unseen (mostly, unless you've been there before). The problem is when some people what hotel-like conveniences and conditions, but for apartments. I'm not referring to you, dreamweaver, but others who think it can be like a hotel where you don't pay until you leave, or can just get your money back if you don't like it. It's not a hotel, so you can't just leave with one night's penalty. They can't re-rent vacation apts on the spot as easily as hotel rooms.

As for the linens, they wouldn't be the dealbreaker for me (although I would complain), as they were not included with the apts I rented. That's another thing, people often want hotel-like services but in an apartment. Now, I did pay a small fee for a linen service with mine (which was an option by the owner), and they provided very decent towels/sheets once a week. You do expect a lot more services the more expensive places are, that's just natural (I sure would expect it if I were paying $300 a night).

The location has been discussed, you just have to research those. However, what I don't think some folks above understand is that 140 euro is NOT a lot of money for this size of apartment within the world of Parisian vacation rentals; it is a very low price. I viewed it online and wouldn't have booked it myself because there wasn't much information, however, I know which one it was. This was a 950 SF, 3 bedroom apt! The price alone should have been a warning, 140 euro is possible for a decent studio in Paris (1 BR if you are lucky or it's very small or not in prime area). That is just way too low to get a good 3 BR apt of that size. At least, I've never seen one and I've probably viewed hundreds. I've paid that for a studio to 1 BR in a good area (without any special deluxe amenities like free internet, or even washer/dryer).

The apts people are praising about being so wonderful and how this wasn't the norm are things like Parisperfect -- which only has two apts less than $300 A NIGHT, and their 1 BR of only 400 SF is $251 a night. So, I do think this is a problem when people may be inexperienced and don't realize you can't get a nice 3 BR vacation apt in Paris for that rate, and it's too bad one wasn't aware of. But I do think that the reason people say you sort of get what you pay for is because, as someone said, it is often true. If something is really cheap in comparison to others, you have to be cautious. Also, it helps to get referrals or comments from someone, even though it can be hard for things like this, unfortunately.

dreamweaver: You probably won't see this but . . .

>>For now, I think I'll not visit the forum anymore, because what I see (not so much in this thread, but others, like the one about smoking on planes that I peeked into today) is a lot of people who think it's okay to write things in a forum situation that polite people would never actually say to someone in person. I know this is NOT EVERYONE, or even most people, so please don't jump down my throat about what I just said. Although, since I'm not going to come back here to look at what anybody says anymore, I guess it won't matter. I'll deactivate my user id, and stay out of the forums.<<

How silly! Did you notice that thread is nearly FIVE YEARS OLD. It was topped by one of our resident trolls just to stir things up. To take ANY notice of it is just nutty.

Not one person on this thread said your complaints were totally uncalled for - but merely noted that SOME of those things are either not the owner's fault, understandable, or maybe not a big deal.

Dreamweaver, Wow, at the risk of hurting your feeling even further, isn't that a bit over reacting for the situation? I'm sorry you feel that way about this forum. No one was nasty one bit on your thread, just not everyone saw your situation in the same light as you did. If you expect all posters all the time to agree with everything you post, well I guess you won't be happy here. To my mind, that's not the purpose of a travel board. It's an *exchange* of ideas and information.