Fodor's Travel Talk Forums - Paris + Switzerland : Please comment

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Chris, That is exactly the portion I did! BUT, I may have been on overload...we had been traveling through the Engadine and we saw so much beautiful scenery. Gullu, listen to Chris! You are getting some great suggestions on your trip! Cheers to all, Jan

One more thing on Luzern. Many people like to disparage it, and yes, it is touristy, but as a resident I can say that it is a wonderful, little, working city as well. There are several large firms with their European headquarters here. It is the real deal...it is not disneyland. It just happens to have a gorgeous location on a lake and is centrally located and easily reached. I agree that too many tour busses make a stop here, but oh well...they bring money. In September, you won't see as many tourists, but you will see a nice energy from happy travelers. OK...down from my soapbox! Jan

I also think the Bernina Express is one of the most spectacular train rides. Chris, of course I did the hike from Ospizio Bernina via Sassal Masone (surprised about the excellent wine –partly more than 300 Sfr. per bottle – there, who will drink that at this location? But enjoyed the fantastic hot chocolate and the original nut cake.) to Alp Gruem. Unbelievable scenery! And I agree with Jan. I visited Lucerne in late October – a perfect time to avoid tourist crowds. It was foggy in the morning (as usually at this time of year), but doing the Pilatus round trip we had blue sky above the fog (“Nebelmeer”). And in the afternoon the sun peeked through the fog/clouds in Lucerne. Gullu, Glad to hear you appreciate my post. Let me add some thoughts regarding your itinerary! The visit of the castle Chillon incl transfer by bus No. 1 and maybe a short lunch will take at least 2 hours time. I think this means you cannot catch the steamer to Geneva. Two options: go by boat to Lausanne, from there by train to Geneva. Or hop on a train to Lausanne or Morges and from there take the steamer to Geneva. I would opt for the second version: I enjoyed the vineyards between Vevey and Lausanne looking out of the train windows as much as watching from the boat – and the arrival in Geneva by steamer is much more beautiful (“Jet d’Eau” and the cathedral up on the hill are very impressive!) than by train. Check it out with www.sbb.ch and www.cgn.ch! On your way from Geneva to Muerren there is one stop to recommend: Bern! The old town figures on the UNESCO world heritage list. Strolling under the arcades and shopping is pure fun. Have a look at the parliament building (free guided tours), the clock tower, the gothic “Muenster” church (stained glass, sculptured western portal etc.) and the many sculptured fountains. The tourist office in the railway station will provide you with information material. On your travel from Lugano to Lucerne you should try to hop off the train in Fluelen and catch the steamer from there to Lucerne. Maybe it is possible. End of Part I

Part II I definitely recommend to add one day to the St. Moritz area. But I am not sure where to cut off. Maybe Lucerne? You must decide if you want to do the Pilatus excursion. If this is a must for you, there is no time for an additional day in St. Moritz. Anyway, my suggestion for a great day in St. Moritz area is: take the bus to Soglio (change in Promontogno). Stroll through this picturesque village (take lots of photos!). Have a coffee in the beautiful garden of Hotel Palazzo Salis (www.palazzosalis.ch) or lunch in their restaurant. If you don’t mind a short hike, hike down to Castasegna through the marvellous chestnut forest (“Selva”) and further via Bondo (another beautiful village) to Promontogno. Take the bus back to St. Moritz. If there is enough time, have a short break in Sils. Walk through this quaint village or around the peninsula “Chaste” in the Lake Sils. I mentioned “jewels”. Many people will advise you not to stay in St. Moritz. Usually I agree. And if it is in your price range, a must is to stay in the 5star hotel Waldhaus in Sils www.waldhaus-sils.ch . 12 km away from the railway station, but they have their own shuttle bus. Right on a hill overlooking the valley with its lakes and the mountains. A family running hotel with old world charm. But … if this is too expensive (and it IS VERY EXPENSIVE) I recommend the 3star hotel Waldhaus am See in St. Moritz www.waldhaus-am-see.ch . Only 200 meters from the railway station, quiet, right on the lake with splendid view of the lake, the mountains, the impressive “skyline” of St. Moritz with its famous Grand Hotels. Try to get a room facing the lake. A fantastic Whiskey bar and wine cellar, large library etc. For an outstanding dinner experience take the train or bus to Punt Muragl (direction Pontresina), from there the funicular to Muottas Muragl. The mountain hotel of the same name www.muottasmuragl.ch (hm, not up to date)offers very good food and a rustic atmosphere (open fireplace if I recall right). Make a reservation to get a table right on a panoramic window. The restaurant and the funicular are open until 11 p. m. Watching the sunset, the change of colors, the glowing peaks and glaciers – unforgettable. That’s it for now. I suggest you do a little research and come back later with questions. Ingo

Thank you Ingo, Jan, Chris and everyone else. You guys are being sooo helpful. The suggestion of train to Laussane and steamer to Geneva was great. Also the suggestions for getting off at fluelen and doing the steamer was great. You guys are convincing me more and more that I should spend one extra day in St Moritz area. How about this : please refine it for me or call it crazy. I still have to decide if I should drop one day from luzern. But your response to this idea will help : I reach St moritz around 5:00pm by Glacier Express. I do the dinner experience in Muottas Muragl (which sounded way too cool). Next day I do the Bernina route as described by Chris (hike + train) and reach Pontresina/Alp grum (I have to check the map). From there I take a bus to Soglio. Then continue to lugano for the night. The reason I say Lugano so that I can do the Lugano -> Fluelen train ride for 2 nights in Luzern. If this sounds crazy please let me know. If it can be refined please do. I would like to enjoy the St Moritz area + do Pilatus if I can. Don't know when I will return to switzerland again. If I really have to make a choice between the 2 then I guess I will. Any hotel recommendations in Luzern area : 3 star suits my budget ($100-$130). Any hotel recommendation in Lugano (nothing fancy because I will reach lugano in the night and leave the early next morning).

I couldn't read all of the comments but I'll put in my 3 cents worth. Diversity. Paris is a world class city and worth spending a few days to get a taste. Bern is a good location for itself and it's barely an hour (great train connections) from Montreux, Lucerne, Lauterbrunen for day trips. Also a good connection to Venice. This gives you a good taste of the best of Switzerland. Venice is another experience. No day trip here. You must be there in the evening when things change. Three locations and a great trip. My 3 cents.

Hi Guys, Before you can I think I will call my plan crazy. After looking at the map + train routes, I realized I cannot do bernina + soglio to Lugano in one day. It was a bad idea because to go to soglio I had to go back to St Moritz. Moreover there are only 2 busses that go from Soglio to Lugano (The Palm Express). One at 9:35 the other at 15:35. No way can I reach + see soglio by 15:35. So if I have to do the soglio + sils I need an extra day in St Moritz Area. Damn, I wish I had more time in switzerland. I cannot drop a day from luzern because really I am doing 2 full days only. The way my itineray is. The first time I will be there for 1/2 day. Then in the end I will be there for 1 1/2 day. Dropping one day from luzern would mean 1/2 + 1/2 day : doesnot sound enough. So I guess I will only do the Bernina Express as suggested by Chris + the Muottas Muragl. Maybe I will have to come back to Switzerland one day to do the soglio trip.

Gullu, We stayed at the berghotel on top of Muottas Muragl. The restaurant is great but the hotel is very basic. The good points; clean, convenient (b/c of the restaurant and hiking) and inexpensive--about $80. Beds were comfortable and the views were phenomenal. But, dorm like atmosphere and you share a bath. Cheers, Jan

Gullu, whatever you choose to do: if you don't want to spend lots of your time traveling in trains/cars/buses, sitting around waiting for connections, etc.etc., then by all means make sure you don't plan too much. Pick a few areas and ENJOY them! Why is it that lots of folks cram all sorts of things into a trip? - in the end, you'll be stuck with a "If it's Wednesday, this must be Belgium" syndrome. Unless, of course, I'm totally off-base and you thoroughly love that sort of scrambling...

Sorry, I think it was actually: "If it's Tuesday, this must be Belgium; if it's Wednesday, this must be Spain..." You can probably stsill rent the movie -it's an old one (title is likely "If it's Tuesday, this must be Belgium") - all about tourbus traveling in Europe. Quite a scream...

Hi all. Wow what an energetic exchange of ideas for Gullu. Especially since I've just read it all at one sitting. I can't recall exactly which portions of the itinerary are locked in, but for what it's worth, I agree w/Ingo about the Lucerne-Murren-Montreux order, adding a day to the Engadine(Jan too), and trying to boat from Fluelen to Lucerne, and with Grasshopper about staying in Montreux or Vevey instead of Geneve (absolutely). But do you need Zermatt, too? Seems to me, slowing down at Murren and St.Moritz would be nice. When I read your 8/22 phrase "hectic 3-4 days in Murren and Zermatt", it almost broke my heart. Speaking of slowing down, let me say that I thought Myer's three-cents post was very reasonable, if in the minority here. I can really picture the luxury of staying at three hotels instead of a dozen, enjoying the marvelous contrast of Paris and Berne and Venice, and still able to see Lucerne, the Berner Oberland, the Lavaux, etc., etc., as daytrips from that gracious old Swiss city of arcades and painted fountains. Myer's idea may not afford you all those panoramic train rides, so it may not be something you want to consider, but it sure caught my attention. J.