Paris + Switzerland : Please comment
 

Message: 9/13/02 : Reach Paris<BR>9/13 - 9/16 : Paris<BR>9/16 : Paris -&gt; Luzern. 1/2 day in Luzern<BR>9/17 : Panaroma Express (Golden Pass line)from Luzern to Geneva <BR>9/17 - 9/18 : Stay in Geneva. Day trips to broc, gruyere, montreux, lake geneva.<BR>9/19 : Geneva to Murren<BR>9/19 - 9/21 : In Murren. Do the jungfraujoch + schilthorn + hiking.<BR>9/21 : Murren to Zermatt. Gornegrat in Zermatt<BR>9/22 : Glacier express to St Moritz<BR>9/23 : Bernina Express to Tirano. Train from Tirano to Milan<BR>9/24 : Day trip to Venice from Milan<BR>9/25 : Milan to Zurich<BR>9/26 : Return to US from Zurich<BR><BR>Any comments, suggestions, alterations. I am open to modifying my itenary. This is my first trip to Europe!<BR><BR>I wanted to do Paris and switzerland. I threw in Venice/Milan because I was going so close to it. Is it a bad idea?<BR><BR>

Gulu, I don't understand. You are in Geneva for two nights but you have "day trips" to 4 places. And you're in Milan one night with a day trip (3 hour train ride) to Venice. I LOVE train travel in Europe and especially in Switzerland, but you are spending all your time on the train. You should plan more nights in each place and go to fewer places. I would cut it to Paris and one Swiss location. For example, stay in Montreux, Vevey or Lausanne for 4 nights and take a boat ride to Geneva and a train to a mountain top. Give yourself some time to walk along the promenade. The boat from Vevey to Geneva takes nearly 5 hours. On a nice day it's a great way to see Lake Geneva and then take the 45 min. train back.

Sounds to me like you are spending a high percentage of your time running around with scenic blurs going by and taking a superficial view of everything.<BR>So if you were expecting me to say it is the perfect game plan, sorry.<BR>He who travels fast sees the least, and your schedule will enable you to excel at that endeavor.<BR>Having ridden trains around Switzerland, I know that most of the routes are in deep valleys, etc. So you will not see much in the way of scenery from train windows, in my opinion. (There are some who disagree, but having spent many weeks in Switzerland, I know what I like.) I usually rent a car so I can drive over the high mountain passes and stop for a long look when the occasion permits. <BR>(Like Lauterbrunnen to Zermatt via the Grimsel Pass!)<BR>Around M&uuml;rren, you are also not allowing enough time to do anything thoroughly. And the Schilthorn and Jungfrau provide views of essentially the same territory. And if you do the Schilthorn and the Jungfraujoch there will be precious little time for hiking.<BR>Luzern in half a day? Why? You will arrive about 2 PM and have 4 hours before most of the primary attractions start closing.<BR>You also will not do much in Venice except see a canal or two.<BR>And I guess my last comment is that you are hardly allowing much time for Paris.<BR>I have spent a total of 9 days there during recent trips. Even 9 days was hardly enough. And I had been there before my last two visits. So in 2 weeks I will visit Paris again to see places I have not yet visited.<BR><BR>Your trip, your money. And you will do what you want. But my guess is that it all be a big blur.<BR>

Guys,<BR><BR>Like I said "My planning might not be right, so help me plan here". My goal is to spend most time in switzerland. I found a good deal flying into Paris and out of Zurich. I will surely go to Paris again, but maybe not again to switzerland. First I was planning 1 night in Paris then I thought that is way to less, so I increased it to 3. Increasing more will cut back on my time in switzerland. SO HELP ME PLEASE. I STILL HAVE A MONTH!!!!<BR><BR>I am flying into Paris on 9/12/02. I am flying out of zurich on 9/26/02. How should I distribute my time so that the focus is on Switzerland. Please remember I might not be able to go to switzerland again.

Gullu, Switzerland is our favorite place to visit for sheer natural beauty and outdoor activities. We have traveled all over the country (including the Glacier Express). And the Bernese Oberland is the best area by far.<BR>Therefore, my suggestions:<BR><BR>9/13-9/16: Paris (with planning, you can get a good introduction to Paris and see a lot of sights)<BR>9/17: Paris to Bernese Oberland (stay in Interlaken, Lauterbrunnen,or Grindelwald). Take in Murren, Wengen, Schynige Platte, Jungfraujoch, etc. Hikes in and out of these areas except Jungfraujoch. Day trip to Lucerne, if you desire.<BR>9/23: Train to Venice<BR>9/25 Train to Zurich<BR>9/26 Fly home<BR><BR>You could go to Venice from Paris on the front of your trip. Then up to Switzerland. I do not know the train schedules, as we travel by auto. Have a good trip. Jinx Hoover

Gullu,<BR>It is TOUGH to plan a first European vacation! I agree with Jinx and the others. Slow down and get off the train some. WE just did the Bernina Express and I think it is overrated. I recommend getting a car if you are touring mostly Switzerland. It is a very easy country to drive in and you are more in control. This would be my suggestion:<BR>Rent a car in Paris (at the end of the visit) and drive to Geneva. It shoudl be about a 5 hour drive. Explore Geneva area for 2 days and then, drive to the Berner Oberland. En route, you can visit Montreux, Vevey or Gruyeres. Explore Berner Oberland (do not stay in Interlaken) for several days, then drive up to Luzern. It is about a 2 hour drive. Visit for 2 days and then, on to Zurich and home. Zurich is a nice city so spend at least a day there. You can drop the car in Luzern or in Zurich. It is a short (1 hour) train ride to Zurich and the train runs every thrity minutes. I would skip Venice completely...save it for next time! You will be back!<BR>Cheers,<BR>Jan

Hi Gullu,<BR>It is hard to imagine if you will be spending too much time in trains and stations. If you want to see a lot of Switzerland, your itinerary sounds possible. These are not whole-day train rides (except Paris-Luzern; for instance, going from Geneva to Murren late in the day would give you much more time in Geneva. But why are you going to Milan? I say choose between Milan and Venice, and I'd choose Venice for two days from Tirano.<BR>Alternatively, spend the two days in the Dolemites since you seem to love mountains & hiking.

Thank you all. We have decided to skip Milan and Venice. Milan was added because there was no other way to go from Tirano/Lugano to Venice but via Milan. Anyhow we were planning o reach Milan by early afternoon and spend 1/2 day there seeing the Gallerria and the duomo. The train from Milan to Venice is 2 hours. So we would have reached Venice by 9am and returned aby 6:00pm. In that time we thought we would have gotten a feel for Venice.<BR><BR>Anyhow I agree with you all : we will skip Milan and Venice and do 2 more days in Luzern.<BR><BR>In the new itenerary you will not that I spend 1/2 day in Luzern and then come back to spend 2 more days. This is because I have already purchased the tockets from Paris -&gt; Luzern, Luzer-&gt;Montreux. Moreover we fly out of zurich so we had to return to luzern.<BR><BR>So The new itenerary :<BR>9/13 - 9/15 : Paris<BR><BR>9/16 : Paris -&gt; Luzern (1/2 day in luzern). No Mountain rides, just see the bridges and walk around the city. Maybe a cruise on the lake if we have time<BR><BR>9/17 : Golden pass train (panaroma car) from Luzern to Montreux. We reach Montreux at 12:45pm. Visit the castle and then take a steamer on Lake Geneva to Geneva (about 5 hours). This will give us a good feel of Lake Geneva and the country side from Interlaken to Montreux. We do not want to spend more than one evening in Geneva. So this should be fine.<BR><BR>9/18/02 : Geneva to Murren. Do you recommend that I visit gruyere, broc on the way to Interlaken? Any other place you recommend that I visit on the way to Interlaken from Geneva.<BR><BR>9/18/02 -&gt; 9/21/02 : Murren and sourrounding. Stay in Murren.<BR><BR>9/21/02 : Murren -&gt; Zermatt. All we intend to do in Zermatt is the gornegrat to experience the matterhorn. Do a couple of short hikes if we have time.<BR><BR>9/22/02 : Glacier Express. This is a good place to rest after a hectic 3-4 days in Murren and Zermatt. Plus we got reservations in the panaroma car and we get to see the countryside from zermatt all the way to St Moritz.<BR><BR>9/23/02 : Bernina express from St Moritz to Lugano. We reach Lugano around 5:00pm. We do not intend to spend more time here than one evening because we will return when we do Italy some day. Intention is to checkout some good Italian restaurant.<BR><BR>9/24/02 : Train from Lugano to Lucerne, via the Gotthard tunnel. I heard it is a very beautiful train ride.<BR><BR>9/24/02 -&gt; 9/25/02 : Lucerne.<BR><BR>9/26/02 : zurich -&gt; san francisco (home)<BR><BR>Have I slowed down now? Do you guys still not like it? Does it need more work.<BR><BR>I think I have balanced it out by staying longer in some places and driving by (in a train) some. Will it give me a good feel of switzerland? Is one evening in St Moritz, Geneva, Lugano a bad idea? I have used them more like a stopover after a day's travel.

It sure looks like you are backtracking. Why are you doing, in essense Paris-Luzern-..-Geneve-..Luzern? How about Paris-Geneve-..Luzern? Is this because you already made a Panoramic express reservation from Luzern to Montreux?<BR><BR>I liked Gruyere. Regarding Broc, we did not go, but there is another Chocolate Train thread mentioning Broc.<BR><BR>The steamer across practically entire Lac Geneve takes quite lot of time, do you really like to be on the boat that long? Is that the only reason you are going all the way to Geneve?<BR><BR>From you description, I see that you really like trains, so your itenerary seem to support your interest.

Gullu,<BR>Sounds very doable and enjoyable. I just have one comment. I would tack on another day in the Engadine (St. Moritz) and delete one day from Luzern (and I live here!). We just did a bit this summer and it is amazing. Check out Pontresina, and/or Guarda. Many amazing little towns!<BR><BR>If you don't take the suggestion, you will still have a wonderful time!<BR>Cheers,<BR>Jan

Rather than try to redo your itinerary (which for is WAY too busy for my tastes and style) I'll list two different trips I did that worked out beautifully. I have friends in Vevey and Montreux and stayed with them, so that influenced the timing.<BR><BR>Two week trip: Fly into Geneva, train out to Vevey, stay 7 days. Take an overnight train (get a sleeper car) to Venice (you leave around midnight and arrive 6AM). Stay 4 days. Return by day train to Vevey, 3 more days, fly home to Seattle.<BR><BR>Three week trip: Fly into Geneva, train to Montreux. Stay 10 days. Overnight train to Venice (sleeper car), stay 5 days. Overnight train to Paris (thru Milan), stay 6 days. Fly out Paris to Seattle.<BR><BR>

More for Gullu~<BR><BR>Milan to Venice is 3 hours each way by train! That hardly gives you a few hours to see all Venice which is crazy.<BR><BR>Gruyere is a nice day trip but I wouldn't plan an itinerary around it plus it's a bit of a drive outside Geneva.<BR><BR>If you're in Montreux see Chateux de Chillon.

Well, according to RailEurope it is 2 hours. Leave Milan at 6:03am, reach Venice at 8:03am (train number 603). Leave Venice at 7:00pm and return to Milan by 9:00pm. That gives you 11 hours in Venice. Doesn't 11 hours qualify as a "day trip" : to get a feel. This is why I thought about it. Anyway I am not doing Venice and Milan now. I have made up my mind thanks to you all!<BR><BR>Jan, thanks for the suggestion to add an extra day to Engadine. I will have to discuss with my wife.<BR><BR>Greg, I wouldn't call myself a "train person", per se. In California, we always either do drive or fly. Never have I done trains. But I believe switzerland is the best place in the whole world to do trains. So yes, I am keeping a good time doing just that.<BR><BR>This is my first trip to switzerland. I do not want to spend all the time in one place not knowing how that place will be. I know for sure I will love 3 nights in Murren and 3 nights in Lucerne. So I have changed my iteneray to suit that. More than doing Geneva, I want to enjoy Lake Geneva area. I thought the best way to do that is by steamer. Moreover, I have a swiss pass so if I don't like 5 hours in the boat, I can always get off and continue on train.<BR><BR>Besides concentrating on lucerne and murren on this trip, I wanted to get a taste of rest of switzerland. So that next time I will do those in detail. To get a taste of rest of switzerland, I have planned the train rides and the steamer cruises. I don't think I can do all of switzerland, in detail, in 10 days.

Gullu,<BR><BR>your itinerary sounds doable. And I think you will have a very good time in Switzerland. Travelling by train is wonderful there.<BR><BR>Just wondering why you do not Lucerne - Muerren - Montreux. Have a look at the map! It is the locical itinerary.<BR><BR>A second thought: I would recommend to stay another night in St. Moritz area. (Right, Jan!) You MUST explore the lakes and do the day trip to Soglio. You might want to have a look at the "Support Group for Those who love Switzerland part II" - thread.<BR><BR>Have you already booked accommodations? This might influence your overnight stays. There are some jewels along the route.<BR><BR>Ingo

Oh, I forgot: Not only Part II, also Part I of the SGFTHLS - thread will give you much recommendations. But it is much to read!<BR><BR>I.

Well all I can tell you is I rode that train and it was 3 hours (Venice/Milan)~ but won't be argumentative since you're leaving that part out anyway ;-)<BR><BR>The trains along the lake from Geneva (there are two train stations one at the airport and one more downtown) are easy and would get you to Lausanne, Vevey, Montreux all within about an 1-1/4 ride to furthest point.<BR>

I agree with your assessment that the boat ride on Lake Geneva is a great idea. It was a highlight for me. If you can work it out to stay in Montreux two nights (consider Vevey instead), you would really enjoy taking the Les Pliaedes train in the morning and the boat in the afternoon, have dinner in Geneva and return to Vevey by train. Then train to Murren from Vevey rather than Geneva. Less unpacking.<BR><BR>Also, anything Ingo says is a good bet. He's a great resource for Switzerland.

FINALLY I HEARD FROM INGO!!! I was waiting because I have read your posts guiding other first timers to switzerland : ranjan et.al.<BR><BR>I have bought the swiss pass and reserved accomodations. But hotels can be cancelled except Paris. The reason I do Luzern-&gt;Geneva-&gt;Murren instead of Luzern-&gt;Murren-&gt;Geneva is 2 :<BR>1. The panaroma express from Luzern to Montreux is reserved. I will lose that reservation if I chnage my itenerary. I have also reserved the "panaroma car", don't know if I will get it for another day.<BR>2. It will involve too many cancellations/changes<BR><BR>Now why I booked it in the first place : My wife wanted to do the "Chocolate Train" from Montreux, which only runs on wednesdays. So I planned to fit that in. But I kept telling her it was a bad idea and a waste of the whole day. So she started a thread on "chocolate Train" here. Now she is convinced that we should drop it. So I get another full day in Murren!!!! Yippppeeee!!!<BR><BR>Is it too bad the way it is now? Please tell me about those jewels ingo. How should I fit in, one more day in St Moritz? At the expense of what : lucerne? If you say I will do it.<BR><BR>Once the itenerary is fronzen, I would like recommendations on what to do in Lucerne (2.5 days), in murren (3 days), zermatt (1 day : gornegrat + ?).<BR><BR>Thanks!!! <BR><BR>

I disagree that the Bernina Express is overrated! The glaciers on this route are by far some of the most stunning in the Alps. But the trick is just to do the Pontresina-Alp Grum (or even Poschiavo) portion. Since hiking is in your plans be sure to get off at Bernina Ospizia and hike around the lake to the Sassal Mason (restaurant) and than down to Alp Grum, returning on the next train to Pontresina. You don't have to do the Express train. There are several trains on this route-you can use any of them and save money on the reservation.

One big comment: you're too much "on the road", unless you enjoy that kind of constant travel... Suggest you either: <BR><BR>- forget Geneva and go straight to Zermatt (via Montreux); or<BR>- forget Zermatt and use that time in Italy (though you're probably saying "But what about the Matterhorn?")<BR>- or, forget Italy altogether. <BR><BR>One other maxim I've learned living here in Switzerland is: don't plan too far in advance if you're thinking about the mountains, because when it's rainy or even very overcast, it doesn't make much sense to go up into them as the scenery is just not as stunning - unless, that is, it doesn't matter to you. Rather, spend the time in the cities like Zurich, Basel, or I guess Luzern (though just the sound of Luzern makes me cringe, it's on every tourist's agenda...). <BR><BR>Finally, do NOT cut out the Engadin (St. Moritz area), but just don't stay in St. Moritz, it's too big, it'll remind you more of a squashed-together city. Stay in Pontresina or Sils Maria, you will ENJOY this area so much more. <BR><BR>Finally, if you still can - put some FLEXIBILITY into your plans. Book maybe two "cities" or towns in advance, that aren't far (ca. 2-3 hrs train ride) from some mountain resorts, and when you have weather reports that say "sunny next 3 days", then call a pre-determined hotel or two to reserve and head up for some brilliant mountain experiences. And above all - spend more of your time on your feet in fresh air than in trains!!!!

Chris, <BR>That is exactly the portion I did! BUT, I may have been on overload...we had been traveling through the Engadine and we saw so much beautiful scenery. Gullu, listen to Chris! You are getting some great suggestions on your trip!<BR>Cheers to all,<BR>Jan

One more thing on Luzern. Many people like to disparage it, and yes, it is touristy, but as a resident I can say that it is a wonderful, little, working city as well. There are several large firms with their European headquarters here. It is the real deal...it is not disneyland. It just happens to have a gorgeous location on a lake and is centrally located and easily reached. I agree that too many tour busses make a stop here, but oh well...they bring money. In September, you won't see as many tourists, but you will see a nice energy from happy travelers.<BR><BR>OK...down from my soapbox!<BR>Jan

I also think the Bernina Express is one of the most spectacular train rides. Chris, of course I did the hike from Ospizio Bernina via Sassal Masone (surprised about the excellent wine –partly more than 300 Sfr. per bottle – there, who will drink that at this location? But enjoyed the fantastic hot chocolate and the original nut cake.) to Alp Gruem. Unbelievable scenery!<BR><BR>And I agree with Jan. I visited Lucerne in late October – a perfect time to avoid tourist crowds. It was foggy in the morning (as usually at this time of year), but doing the Pilatus round trip we had blue sky above the fog (“Nebelmeer”). And in the afternoon the sun peeked through the fog/clouds in Lucerne.<BR><BR>Gullu,<BR><BR>Glad to hear you appreciate my post. Let me add some thoughts regarding your itinerary!<BR><BR>The visit of the castle Chillon incl transfer by bus No. 1 and maybe a short lunch will take at least 2 hours time. I think this means you cannot catch the steamer to Geneva. Two options: go by boat to Lausanne, from there by train to Geneva. Or hop on a train to Lausanne or Morges and from there take the steamer to Geneva. I would opt for the second version: I enjoyed the vineyards between Vevey and Lausanne looking out of the train windows as much as watching from the boat – and the arrival in Geneva by steamer is much more beautiful (“Jet d’Eau” and the cathedral up on the hill are very impressive!) than by train. Check it out with www.sbb.ch and www.cgn.ch!<BR><BR>On your way from Geneva to Muerren there is one stop to recommend: Bern! The old town figures on the UNESCO world heritage list. Strolling under the arcades and shopping is pure fun. Have a look at the parliament building (free guided tours), the clock tower, the gothic “Muenster” church (stained glass, sculptured western portal etc.) and the many sculptured fountains. The tourist office in the railway station will provide you with information material.<BR><BR>On your travel from Lugano to Lucerne you should try to hop off the train in Fluelen and catch the steamer from there to Lucerne. Maybe it is possible. <BR><BR>End of Part I

Part II<BR><BR>I definitely recommend to add one day to the St. Moritz area. But I am not sure where to cut off. Maybe Lucerne? You must decide if you want to do the Pilatus excursion. If this is a must for you, there is no time for an additional day in St. Moritz. Anyway, my suggestion for a great day in St. Moritz area is: take the bus to Soglio (change in Promontogno). Stroll through this picturesque village (take lots of photos!). Have a coffee in the beautiful garden of Hotel Palazzo Salis (www.palazzosalis.ch) or lunch in their restaurant. If you don’t mind a short hike, hike down to Castasegna through the marvellous chestnut forest (“Selva”) and further via Bondo (another beautiful village) to Promontogno. Take the bus back to St. Moritz. If there is enough time, have a short break in Sils. Walk through this quaint village or around the peninsula “Chaste” in the Lake Sils.<BR><BR>I mentioned “jewels”. Many people will advise you not to stay in St. Moritz. Usually I agree. And if it is in your price range, a must is to stay in the 5star hotel Waldhaus in Sils www.waldhaus-sils.ch . 12 km away from the railway station, but they have their own shuttle bus. Right on a hill overlooking the valley with its lakes and the mountains. A family running hotel with old world charm. But … if this is too expensive (and it IS VERY EXPENSIVE) I recommend the 3star hotel Waldhaus am See in St. Moritz www.waldhaus-am-see.ch . Only 200 meters from the railway station, quiet, right on the lake with splendid view of the lake, the mountains, the impressive “skyline” of St. Moritz with its famous Grand Hotels. Try to get a room facing the lake. A fantastic Whiskey bar and wine cellar, large library etc. For an outstanding dinner experience take the train or bus to Punt Muragl (direction Pontresina), from there the funicular to Muottas Muragl. The mountain hotel of the same name www.muottasmuragl.ch (hm, not up to date)offers very good food and a rustic atmosphere (open fireplace if I recall right). Make a reservation to get a table right on a panoramic window. The restaurant and the funicular are open until 11 p. m. Watching the sunset, the change of colors, the glowing peaks and glaciers – unforgettable.<BR><BR>That’s it for now. I suggest you do a little research and come back later with questions.<BR><BR>Ingo<BR>

Thank you Ingo, Jan, Chris and everyone else. You guys are being sooo helpful.<BR><BR>The suggestion of train to Laussane and steamer to Geneva was great. Also the suggestions for getting off at fluelen and doing the steamer was great. <BR><BR>You guys are convincing me more and more that I should spend one extra day in St Moritz area. How about this : please refine it for me or call it crazy. I still have to decide if I should drop one day from luzern. But your response to this idea will help :<BR><BR>I reach St moritz around 5:00pm by Glacier Express. I do the dinner experience in Muottas Muragl (which sounded way too cool). Next day I do the Bernina route as described by Chris (hike + train) and reach Pontresina/Alp grum (I have to check the map). From there I take a bus to Soglio. Then continue to lugano for the night. The reason I say Lugano so that I can do the Lugano -&gt; Fluelen train ride for 2 nights in Luzern.<BR><BR>If this sounds crazy please let me know. If it can be refined please do. I would like to enjoy the St Moritz area + do Pilatus if I can. Don't know when I will return to switzerland again. If I really have to make a choice between the 2 then I guess I will.<BR><BR>Any hotel recommendations in Luzern area : 3 star suits my budget ($100-$130). Any hotel recommendation in Lugano (nothing fancy because I will reach lugano in the night and leave the early next morning).

I couldn't read all of the comments but I'll put in my 3 cents worth.<BR><BR>Diversity.<BR><BR>Paris is a world class city and worth spending a few days to get a taste.<BR><BR>Bern is a good location for itself and it's barely an hour (great train connections) from Montreux, Lucerne, Lauterbrunen for day trips. Also a good connection to Venice.<BR>This gives you a good taste of the best of Switzerland.<BR><BR>Venice is another experience. No day trip here. You must be there in the evening when things change.<BR><BR>Three locations and a great trip.<BR><BR>My 3 cents.<BR><BR>

Hi Guys,<BR><BR>Before you can I think I will call my plan crazy. After looking at the map + train routes, I realized I cannot do bernina + soglio to Lugano in one day. It was a bad idea because to go to soglio I had to go back to St Moritz. Moreover there are only 2 busses that go from Soglio to Lugano (The Palm Express). One at 9:35 the other at 15:35. No way can I reach + see soglio by 15:35. <BR><BR>So if I have to do the soglio + sils I need an extra day in St Moritz Area. Damn, I wish I had more time in switzerland.<BR><BR>I cannot drop a day from luzern because really I am doing 2 full days only. The way my itineray is. The first time I will be there for 1/2 day. Then in the end I will be there for 1 1/2 day. Dropping one day from luzern would mean 1/2 + 1/2 day : doesnot sound enough.<BR><BR>So I guess I will only do the Bernina Express as suggested by Chris + the Muottas Muragl. Maybe I will have to come back to Switzerland one day to do the soglio trip.

Gullu,<BR>We stayed at the berghotel on top of Muottas Muragl. The restaurant is great but the hotel is very basic. The good points; clean, convenient (b/c of the restaurant and hiking) and inexpensive--about $80. Beds were comfortable and the views were phenomenal. But, dorm like atmosphere and you share a bath.<BR>Cheers,<BR>Jan

Gullu, whatever you choose to do: if you don't want to spend lots of your time traveling in trains/cars/buses, sitting around waiting for connections, etc.etc., then by all means make sure you don't plan too much. Pick a few areas and ENJOY them! Why is it that lots of folks cram all sorts of things into a trip? - in the end, you'll be stuck with a "If it's Wednesday, this must be Belgium" syndrome. <BR><BR>Unless, of course, I'm totally off-base and you thoroughly love that sort of scrambling...

Sorry, I think it was actually: "If it's Tuesday, this must be Belgium; if it's Wednesday, this must be Spain..." You can probably stsill rent the movie -it's an old one (title is likely "If it's Tuesday, this must be Belgium") - all about tourbus traveling in Europe. Quite a scream...

Hi all. Wow what an energetic exchange of ideas for Gullu. Especially since I've just read it all at one sitting.<BR><BR>I can't recall exactly which portions of the itinerary are locked in, but for what it's worth, I agree w/Ingo about the Lucerne-Murren-Montreux order, adding a day to the Engadine(Jan too), and trying to boat from Fluelen to Lucerne, and with Grasshopper about staying in Montreux or Vevey instead of Geneve (absolutely).<BR><BR>But do you need Zermatt, too? Seems to me, slowing down at Murren and St.Moritz would be nice. When I read your 8/22 phrase "hectic 3-4 days in Murren and Zermatt", it almost broke my heart.<BR><BR>Speaking of slowing down, let me say that I thought Myer's three-cents post was very reasonable, if in the minority here. I can really picture the luxury of staying at three hotels instead of a dozen, enjoying the marvelous contrast of Paris and Berne and Venice, and still able to see Lucerne, the Berner Oberland, the Lavaux, etc., etc., as daytrips from that gracious old Swiss city of arcades and painted fountains. Myer's idea may not afford you all those panoramic train rides, so it may not be something you want to consider, but it sure caught my attention. J.