Hotels ARE starting to charge more for "cancel up to arrival time". Just look at booking.com.

Accor Hotels (Novotel, Mercure, Ibis, etc.) allow you to cancel up until 6 p.m. on the day of arrival.

Yes I just found holiday inn 4pm...so mostly the lower end generic chains ..still think one should not book something that seems so risky to them but maybe worth it for them...I do note that PP is opening a building where they own or manage virtually all the apts so maybe they are changing their business model..that way no complaints from other residents etc??

<i>I do note that PP is opening a building where they own or manage virtually all the apts so maybe they are changing their business model</i>

I have no doubt that PP is very concerned about their business model. However, it is very likely that their building project will be operated as an apartment/hotel, much like the Citadine or Adagio models. This would be perfectly legal.

However, profiteers who purchase buildings to operate them as clandestine vacation rentals are given the highest enforcement priority by the mayor´s task force. It would be unlikely that PP would initiate such an investment without full cooperation and authority of city officials.

I actually think this business model could really work...you are not dealing with over 100 owners....risking people in the buildings reporting things....your cleaning staff/maintenance etc. can be concentrated and not running all over the city...greeters can be more efficient and may not be needed at all if there is management onsite. I have no doubt they will be beautiful and not at all like citdadine etc. and PP does decorate their apartments very nicely. The fact that they are making this kind of investment tells me that many of the problems of late as we have discussed are for real and this may start a trend...but cannot imagine what the initial investment in something like this must be...it looks beautiful.

If only they had had a crystal ball about 3 years ago and had known that this evolution would be essential. They would be really ahead of the game now instead of having to scramble. In any case, they are almost certainly way ahead of AirBnB, except for the authentic resident owners who were honest all along and not the mercenary 'entrepreneurs'.

Nevertheless, for the 'resident owners' it will be a considerable disappointment to have to declare their rental revenue to the fiscal authorities. People always think there are ways to avoid this.

Here is another example of the type of accommodations PP could be planning:

www.residencehenri4.com/

Apartment or resident hotels could see renewed interest as the vacation rental market has become increasingly popular. I should assume that the costs for these units will be higher than what one finds with black market rentals but PP´s apartments have always seemed to be upscale and their clientèle may find this a satisfactory option; if that is what they are doing.

At lower cost, the solution will likely be to rent from a resident/owner who may legally offer his personal apartment for up to 120 days a year.

Watching TV and that insufferable airbnb advert just came on . . . dreamy shots of Paris and the tag line "Don't go to Paris, don't 'do' Paris - <i>live</i> in Paris. When you airbnb in Paris you have your own home.</i>"

This "business model" already exists, and is called a "hotel" or "an apart'hotel", if the latter includes a kitchen.

The cost of acquiring enough property in Paris to open a hotel which would be large enough to make a profit - which also includes the price of conforming to City sanitation, safety, and access codes, paying commercial tax rates, paying multiple salaries, contributing to the schedule of benefits for employees, among other things - is astronomical, especially in the high-demand arrondissements. The cost of renovating an existing property, while adhering to the restrictions imposed in historical neighborhoods, adds a significant amount of paperwork and money. It takes an average of 3 - 5 years for a new business to begin to turn a profit, depending on the amount of money spent to begin with. In Paris, a small hotel would have to charge a significant amount of money per room to survive. This is the reason that many hotels and apart'hotels seem too modern and lack charm - it's all about efficiency and keeping costs to a minimum.

People who invest in apartments for short-term rental usually begin with moderately high-quality bedding, appliances, furniture and making the unit look like someone might actually live there. But as time goes on, especially with popular units, they are replaced by much less expensive items, to offset the costs. This is especially true with appliances.

There are agencies which claim that "someone owns the whole building", and it is legal for them to rent the apartments. This would only be legal if "someone" lived in each apartment for 8 months out of the year, which isn't the case.

TF1 just ran a story about the visits by the Mayor's task force. It showed exactly how the investigation process works, including two visits to apartments in the same building which are owned by one non-resident and operated by the same agency (this particular person owns multiple apartments in Paris). It was explained that the property owner has been notified, but the agency continues to rent the apartments, and that the fines are multiplying each day that this continues. It would be far less expensive for the property owner to comply with the City's criteria than to keep renting multiple properties.

There was also a visit to the AirBnB corporate office in Paris. The representative stated that he was fully aware of the City's regulations, and had duly forwarded a copy of the Mayor's criteria for legal rentals, including a mention of collecting mandatory room tax. The representative stated that it was not AirBnB's job to manage the rentals, nor advise the people who list properties on their site. Their job is to list apartments and collect money, which is entirely legal.

Maybe it's time to make it illegal.

Now this is even more confusing. Paris Perfect will have some legal apartments and some (maybe many) illegal apartments.

After reading through this thread I do not know how the average tourist can make a decision. Some here (who have a relationship with the PP owners) believe that they are truthful when saying their apartments are legal. Others say not. Who is to be trusted?

I would hate to negatively impact anyone's business unless I was certain that it was merited.....from all of the above information, I'm more confused than convinced that PP apartments are illegal.

I do not wish to break the law but with many laws, it is easy to discern if what I am doing is illegal or not....either the seatbelt is on or it is not. This situation is different.

Probably a lot of the owners do not know if they are illegal or not, but the very fact that they do not know almost certainly means that they are indeed illegal. Anybody who has received official certification from the city would absolutely have no doubt about being legal.

kerouac, I agree that many owners do know. It is just sometimes challenging for someone who doesn't live in Paris to know who to believe.

The majority of people will lie when the possibility of earning easy money is involved, particularly untaxed revenue.

It´s important to keep in mind that the law ALUR, which basically clamped down on short term apartment rentals, was a very comprehensive law covering many aspects of real-estate to include purchasing and operating property. The vacation rental aspect was only part of the overall law.

What has become apparent is that without some way to easily flag illegal vs. legal apartments and include the listing agents in the process, little can be done to force widespread compliance with the law. Not to mention that visitors, who may be otherwise be sensitive about renting illegal apartments, have no reliable way to know if the apartment which interests them is legal or not.

Thus, the national government is currently discussing changes which will bring listing agencies into the mix and force them to list only legal apartments.

The city has now forced Airbnb and others to collect and forward the taxe de séjour which renters must pay. This is all big business with a lot of new legislation. The wheels of government turn slowly, but turning they are.

My own take on the matter is that most people will get away with it until the Euro 2016 football cup business is finished. After that, all bets are off.

(For anybody who has not been paying attention, this event runs from 10 June to 10 July and will totally modify your Paris experience if you are coming during those dates. For example, a secure 'fan zone' for 100,000 people has just begun construction on the Champ de Mars below the Eiffel Tower.)

Again - the owners of Paris Perfect have recently stated to denisea and ourselves that 100% of the apartments they offer are legal. They have approval "seals" from the Mairie that they can show to verify this. They have been working since 2011 to make their units legal - and it is a very long & difficult task to do so. They realize that many/most other rental agencies have not done this.

They are not "hiding under the radar" - by any means. Just the opposite, in fact.

If someone does not believe what denisea & I have offered here - fine - that's your option. But as a frequent PP renter - we're the ones that are most "at risk" to fraud.

Stu Dudley

So they worked before the law was devised and passec ?
Good anticipation.

As you say, you are the ones at risk.

If their apartments are legal, why doesn't it say so on their website?

In her e-mail to us, she stated that they are working on a "clarification" for their web site.

Their apt complex on 25 Pl Dauphine is opening later this month, and that has consumed a lot of their time & energy, I assume. We toured the interior of 25 Pl Dauphine in October - and it was a mess inside. I mostly had to climb ladders and walk through rubble to see anything. MAJOR project to a major historic hotel.

Stu Dudley