PARIS - LOVE IT OR HATE IT?
 

This is probably going to start a fiasco, but here I go! I notice that there seems to be a lot of Paris 'lovers' on this website and not anyone who 'hates' it. In the last 2 weeks, I have heard from my neighbours how much they loved Paris in the week they spent there. Then the other day, my 24-yr old nephew and fiancee just returned from a 2 month tour in Europe and actually hated Paris. They'd planned 4 days and after 1 1/2 days, they said they were actually 'disgusted' with the rudeness of the Parisiennes (waiters, gypsies). They gave me examples of the rudeness in cafes - this young couple are in their mid 20's and very respectable young people. I was very surprised, they did say they tried to speak French (they are both university grads, she is a teacher who has taken many French courses so understands and speaks a bit). What is it - it just surprises me how there is such a 'love' but also such a 'hate'!!!I guess I just have to go myself to find out!!!!

You do that.

From my experiences I have found that the younger crowd is not as enthralled with Paris as us old folks are.

My daughter felt Paris had no night life to her liking. she was 19 at the time she first went there. After coming from Spain the weather is cold in Paris and food and lodging is more expensive in Paris.

Parisians as a general rule, are more reserved and formal than we are accustomed to.

I'm a die hard Paris lover but like anywhere else, Paris does have a few flaws.

>>guess I just have to go myself to find out!!!!<<

Yep - that's the best idea.

When we were your nephew's age, we embarked on our first trip to Europe. WAY too fast-paced. We visited Paris last & did not like it at all (we were too exhausted & tried to do too much there). We avoided Paris on the next 3 trips, but hit it as the first stop on about our 5th trip to Europe AND FELL IN LOVE WITH PARIS. That was 30 years ago & we return about every other year - just got back from a 3 week "do nothing" trip there.

The French waiters are efficient, but don't want to become your "best friend". When we lived in southern Calif, waiters would usually greet you with "Hi - I James & I'll be your waiter for the evening. Where are you folks from". This does not happen in France, and I'm glad of that. If your nephew expected the waiter to kinda "join" him for dinner, then he would probably think they were stand-offish & perhaps rude. As others like to point out, Paris is like NYC - as you pass people on the street they don't usually smile at you or even notice your existance. But if you are in a somewhat remote location of Paris & are trying to figure out where you are, a local will often ask if they can help.

Gypsies - you should see the homeless/vagrant problem we have here in San Francisco.

Stu Dudley

Hi Stu,

We live in Orange County,CA. I was in SF last September and I was really surprised by the number of homeless and how aggressive the panhandling has gotten.

I've never seen anything like that in Paris.

Sad really. SF is so beautiful. I avoid downtown LA as much as possible.

Your comments about the waiters reminded me of why we stopped going to Outback Steakhouse. The servers literally sit down at the table with you.

OK, let me just say that I've been vacationing there, almost annually, since the mid 70s, so have experienced Paris over several decades.

I find this "rudeness" situation, that you're speaking of, to be a lot better now than it was some decades ago.

I remember, while living in Scandinavia, during the summers, reading a newspaper article on how some French tourism organization was saying that there needed to be an attitude adjustment, so to speak. Travelers were getting fed up with it. Things have changed and I've found things MUCH better.

I'm telling you I have dealt with some, totally uncalled for situations, over the decades so I understand what you're saying. I'm talking situations that if they'd happened here at home, the employee would have have been fired. I won't go into details.

But, then I've also had the opposite experience,too where waiters/waitresses/hotel staff/shopkeepers have been really great.

I think travelers love Paris for many different reasons. I personally can click out a lot of stuff that might go on and focus on the "city" and what I'm there to do. Then I'm not so bothered.

So, just don't worry about it and go and have a great time. I'm sure this thread will turn into a monster, so to speak. I can just hear the comments coming. And I'm sure there will be comments stating that such could take place in any big cities which of course it could. But, it's no secret that this "rudeness" discussion has come up about Paris in particular and for many decades. Happy Travels!

As I tell my kids, it's good that not everyone loves to visit the same places!

Your nephew and his fiancee's opinions may be due to the greater formality in France, and specifically in Paris, or maybe the city just doesn't "click" with them. DH and I are more formal, so that doesn't bother us, but on the other hand, the last time we visited Paris, I had a nice conversation with a waiter at a bar about where they get their morning croissants. So not everyone is so formal.

My husband didn't really like Paris the first time he went, during grad school with some buddies. But when we visited, several years later, he enjoyed himself a great deal. I speak a little French - I can't say that's the reason his experience was better, but it does help.

Love it. But I think if you experience rudeness anywhere and you aren't there long enough to meet all the nice people who make up for it, you might feel the way your nephew did.

Over the years, my tastes have changed. For a while, I preferred vacations in the countryside, but now I'm moving toward appreciating city life more. If you are not a city person, you might not like Paris as much as the French countryside.

But I think your instincts are correct; you'll have to go see for yourself.

Waiting tables in France, especially in restaurants, is a professional occupation - not something someone does while attending classes.

They are highly efficient and usually ensure you a high level of profesionnalism.

So basically, you will rarely (not!) be greeted with a "How's everyon' doin' today'?" Good? GREAT!!! "Tell me dear, you want some fixin' with that?" hmmm-hmmm? "Great! Comin' right up!".

Rudeness? Yes if you compare their style of serving tables with "Sammy" from Boston Pizza.

I'm curious about why I love Paris. I also love Venice - perhaps even more than Paris. I enjoy almost everywhere I've been outside the US (pretty much around the world).

My feelings about "great" American cities are more complex? I really enjoy trips to NYC, Washington. D.C. (usually - had to go there on business lots for a long time), Boston, and San Francisco. I lived in the Chicago area for several years and really like Chicago. But I'm not enthralled with any of these American cities the same way I am with Paris and Venice, where I love simply to walk and walk and walk and get lost and find places to eat, museums, etc.

Perhaps it's the sense of history and adventure and intrigue that I find in cities where I'm not fluent in the language and culture? Or maybe I'm just a little bit nuts? Go figure!

Paris?

meh

I can take it or leave it. Certainly not the center of the Universe that many claim nor is it the armpit of the World.

For me the charm of Europe isn't found in the big cities - they all look the same. Explore the countryside and small villages.

<i>LOVE IT OR HATE IT?</i>

I don't love it but I don't hate it either. I think it's a beautiful city with lots of great things to see, lots of history, and fantastic food. Just because a few people said they hated it doesn't mean that you'll feel the same.

I have encountered friendly people, and have encountered rude people - not just Paris, but pretty much everywhere I've visited in the world, including where I live.

I don't let the rude people bother me. Why let them ruin your vacation?

I have never been, nor do I have any desire to go there. I don't like cities very much and Paris holds no attraction for me whatsoever.
My husband suggested going there for a weekend for my birthday a couple of years ago but I said I'd rather go almost anywhere else - so we went to the Mosel and had a truly wonderful time.
I'm with Otzi on this, and not just in Europe but on any continent, it is the country and the villages that hold the charm and the &quot;real&quot; experience of a country.

I like Paris, but I don't love it. I do, however, love Nice.

Don't love it or hate it. Pretty neutral. If I were to go to France tomorrow it would definitely not be to Paris. No desire to return there.

I'm with Otzi on cities. DH and I normally fly into a city like Rome or whatever, spend a couple of days, then are absolutely itching to get into the countryside and small villages. I'm not a city person and feel that you can find more authentic culture and interesting experiences outside cities. Taking those tiny twisty narrow roads in the country can lead to wonderfully undiscovered hidden gems.

I love cities and I love Paris, but what got me was this comment:

<i>they all look the same</i>

Huh? London looks like Paris? Berlin looks like Paris? Barcelona looks like Paris?

I love Paris!!!!!!! I have run into a couple of rude people, but I chaulked that up to &quot;the authentic french experience&quot;. LOL

Depending on when and where you sit down to eat, sometimes the waiters are very busy and they just don't have time to go over the menu and the specials and the like (they wouldn't anyway) that we get here in the US. I actually hate it when the waiter squats down by the table and starts listing a zillion specials and blah blah blah. In Paris the waiters want you to know what you want when they come to the table. I, of course am generalizing.

There are quite a few homeless people around, but personally, I was never hustled by any of them and I'm glad about that.

You neighbors certainly will not be condemed to the fires of hell for not loving Paris. My brother can't stand it there and I can't believe I still speak to him!!! :D

I don't hate Paris, but there are at least ten other cities I would revisit first. But actually, that is probably not even true, because if Paris is convenient, I tend to include it in my trip. Even though I don't get the feeling of natural comfort like I do in many other cities, Paris is still superb for its musical and cultural offerings. I know for sure that I'll never be bored there.

As to why I prefer London, Berlin, Vienna, Mexico City, Rome, Venice, Florence, etc. to Paris - well, for some reason that is just how it is.

LOVE IT!!!

Can't really explain why, but it's my favourite city on earth.
I love the French language and French literature and am fairly fluent, so that may have something to do with it. French people are like people everywhere - some lovely, some hateful. There's just a vibe about the city that I love.

Younger visitors often have no idea where to go to find their kind of &quot;scene.&quot; Since 95% of the people say to stay as close to the center as possible, they are very unlikely to discover the alternative and inventive places, which are on the fringes of the city.

Too bad for them! Paris is already too crowded as far as I'm concerned, and I would very much like for the number of visitors to drop.

I love all your responses. I agree with you - a lot of times a person just feels a vibe in a place that others may not. I do have French heritage and that is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to this trip. I also am a person who likes new adventures. The cousins I am travelling with all have a great sense of humour and I honestly think that if we meet someone who is rude, we will simply chalk it up and have fun with it. It certainly won't wreck our time! It really is wonderful that we all think differently, otherwise it would truly be a boring world!!

I love Paris and I really didn't think I would... Not sure why, just always thought I'd love London (which I do) and probably not like Paris. I have been there 3 times now and would go back again and again. For some reason it seems magical to me. Unlike a lot of people, I don't really like Venice.

I do love Paris. I love big cities and big museums and city sophistication. I love to look at all the different types of people: the ones that are chic; the ones that are tourists; the business people; the artists.

I especially love the availability of great art from so many periods, including in the present. I love the food and the markets. I love the guy that was dancing to a funky techno beat while he rang up my purchase and stopped to twirl around before finishing our transaction.

That's the sort of thing that hardly ever happens to me in tiny towns.

I love New York. I had a friend that hated it with a passion.

I hate Napoli, but people here think I'm nuts. A woman there punched in the arm, two nasty teen girls yelled at us, I don't like garbage. I don't think Neapolitans are particularly rude; I just think I ran into a couple of nasty ones. We had very bad service (I mean VERY bad) in two restaurants, and a less than helpful desk clerk at our hotel. I still don't think it was all the people, but the ones that were put in my path.

However, experiences influence our desire to revisit a city. I would go almost any place before Naples.

Micah-What specific type of &quot;rudeness&quot; was it? You said that you were given examples of it. I'm just curious. Happy Travels!

Interesting post. If I had my way, every vacation I take would be to Paris, I love it so much.

But a co-worker who travels a lot went last year (early 60's, with his wife), and came back complaining that Paris had &quot;gotten dirty and loud.&quot; Didn't have a good time at all.

I can't argue with his perception, but I do think his expectations must have been a bit skewed. Paris is fantastic because it is both a working city and a living museum. One of the many wonderful things about it is that you do have to deal with lots of people and cars, but then you get to one of the dozens of historic oases, and its as if the nearest car were 100 miles away.

Near the end of our trip, we were walking back from the Eiffel Tower and Musee Quai Branly toward the 6th, and came upon what I would describe as the back end of the Invalides: a huge open grass area that spanned from the Invalides complex all the way to the Seine. It was just awesome in scope, and even though it was just grass and I've never noticed it mentioned in any books, it was like walking into a massive relaxation vat, and all the traffic and noise was suddenly gone. Just one of dozens of wonderful moments in a wonderful city.

To each his own, but for me, I love Paris!

First of all, the word fiasco means failure, I think you meant furor and certainly not Fuhrer.

We have traveling to Paris for over 35 years. I am tired of the rudeness debate since we have been the beneciary of largesse and the object of derision.

Traveling is not about you, it is about where you are visiting. One should do their homework and understand what they will like and what may surprise them.

Parisians are judgemental, accept it. I was 22 when i first visited Paris. The onus was on us to find what interested us, the burden is not on the city.

So both sides stop your whining. France is the most visited country in the world by a wide margin, so take the tourist dollars and shut up. And visitors should grow up and learn the world is a bigger and more interesting place than you.

I do think the young aren't as enamoured with Paris as the old. My mother loved Paris, the wide boulevards, the courtyard apartments, I liked London better because of it's &quot;vibe&quot; and it's nightlife. However, for me Paris took a number of days to get used to. The language difference was the biggest hurdle, especially with my phrase-book French. It was only when the lady in the corner bakery remembered me as we exchanged greetings that I began to enjoy it. Paris is not so much the sum of the museums /sites as it is relaxing and enjoying the little things like people watching. I found the best treatment, from shops outside the single digit arrondisements.

I did encounter some rude staff, but I've encountered the same in London and here at home. As one of the other posters said, shopkeepers and waitstaff in France and Europe aren't the BFF-type found here in the US.

In the end, it's just different strokes for different folks.

Hi M,

&gt;I guess I just have to go myself to find out&lt;

Absolutely.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))
Who first fell in love with Paris about 45 years ago.
&quot;Age cannot wither her, nor custom stale her infinite variety&quot;.

Ok I swore i never would go to Paris because of a bad experience during
a lay over experience on my way to Switzerland. However I did go last
month and had an excellent time and
contrary to my expectations I was treated quite well by everyone I met
I was surprised because of the 1984 experience people were helpful with
directions everyone was nice so I plan to go back

France is the most visited country in the world by a wide margin

It's true, 82 million to France, and it's closest rival is Spain at less than 60 million, so somebody's not bothered by all that rudeness (just kidding, the only time I noticed the rudeness was when I traveled there as a poor student).

I loved Paris when I was a kid.
I loved Paris as a young adult.
I loved Paris as I matured (well, not too mature)
I love Paris as I have become well into being middle-aged.
I'm sure I will love Paris when I'm an old geezer in the not-too-distant future.
In closing, I love Paris!

((H))

We love Paris and have visited some 30+ times but after our first visit over 35 years ago, we swore we'd never return--and didn't for a good 8 years or so. Found the traffic too scary, the hotel staff (at the Intercontinental) too snooty, and everything too uncared for in comparison to Austria which was so clean and orderly, etc, etc. Eventually we lightened up and went a second time and enjoyed ourselves enormously as we have continued to do ever since. A lot depends upon what happens to you on an initial visit--even the weather can make a big difference in forming that first love/hate connection. So give it a chance. And if you're not smitten, give it another.

I love it, my feet hate it.

I didn't really like Paris the first two times I visited the city (stayed only a few days), but the third time I went there I stayed for longer (a few weeks, and eventually on subsequent visits, an entire month), and that was when I really discovered how much I had missed from my first two visits.

I think that people &quot;see&quot; what they want to see in a city; if they want to see all the negative aspects of a city, they will. If they want to see all the positive points of a place, they will. I had a similar experience with many other cities -- when I allow things like homeless people and rude waiters bother me, I start to think the entire city isn't as beautiful as people say it is. But when I choose to see the beautiful architecture, history, and enjoy the local cuisines, I realize how wonderful the city actually is.

I am on the fence.

I was there in 2001 and am going again this year in Sept..

The Marias was a great area and I really enjoyed all the little Jewish bakeries ( ok, all the bakeries :) )

People were reserved and slightly rude compared to what I am use to.

We were there for a week and didnt see even 1/2 of what we wanted to.

Looking forward to seeing d'Orsay especially.

One thing I loved is how there were dogs everywhere... in cafes..stores

My husband went to Paris when he was in college and didn't much enjoy it. He never wanted to go back, but when I finally threatened to go by myself, he gave in. After all, what kind of husband would he be to let his wife go to Paris by herself?

We both loved it. That first trip there still ranks as one of our very favorites and we've been back twice since. It's very walkable, the Metro is easy to use, and the people-watching is fantastic. We've never been pickpocketed and when we've needed help, people were quite willing to tolerate our bad French and give directions or help us find a taxi. We had one rude waiter--not formal, just bad--but heck, it wouldn't be a trip to Paris without at least one experience like that. More often than not, we've been very pleased with the service in restaurants and hotels, but we're not really the type to chat up the waiters or expect them to be buddy-buddy with us.

I hope you go and have a wonderful time.

<i>After all, what kind of husband would he be to let his wife go to Paris by herself?</i>

Why, he'd be a really, really sweet and generous one!

gruezi

(a Paris lover who has been 4 times, so far none with her husband.)

As someone who lives in the capital of the World and it's greatest city Paris is always going to struggle in comparison.

However it is a good second to London. It's more expensive, the foods worse (really it is) and the public transport's pony.

But because they are surrender monkeys the architecture is great, the cityscape is fabulous and it is so dinky you can walk everywhere.

And there's that whole MILF thing that the women can pull off so well....

Planning our 3rd trip to Paris, in September for a month. This is second time for an apartment.
What have we learned about Paris? Parisians aren't rude, they are reserved. Americans need to remember their manners and be very polite. Listen to Parisians on the metros, bus and in restaurants. Rick Steves said in his Paris 2009 book, Parisians would rather have you speak a little bad French and they will correct you than loud English . They speak softly and don't stare at people. They think Americans are loud and we are. We have learned to blend in. We have learned to seek out the side trips and views of the city and to just sit and enjoy the cafes and parks. We ask questions about food and wine even though my husband bought and sold fine wine.

We love Paris because of the experiences we have had and quite frankly, could live there.

I loved Paris as a 14 year old with my family. My brother and I felt like we were completely on our own, touring, and shopping, and yes, drinking carafes of wine at the cafeteria on Blvd. St. Germain and another near the Arc Du Triomphe. I think both are long gone. I love Paris just as much now that I am a grandmother. I have been 9 times over the years. It was a long spell of not going between 14 and 46 and then I was free again to travel. If I miss a year going to Paris I have withdrawal pains. I'm in pain this year. We are heading to Istanbul instead, but it's back to Paris in 2010.

If there is a God in heaven I will retire in Paris. I have encountered rude people in Paris and I have encountered rudeness in cities all over the world. I personally feel Paris and the French have a bad reputation. I think we misinterpret their formalness with rudeness. Paris isn't for everyone and I don't believe anyone else needs to love it just because I do. I avoided NYC for years because as a kid we were treated so rudely in many places throughout the city. When I finally went back as an adult I couldn't believe how gracious and nice everyone is and I can't wait to return to New York City! It's all about preferences.