These kids are unde 18 years of age usually around 13 or 14 years of age, so they get in for free at the Louvre. There are usually 4 or 5 of them at a time who swarm the tourists and workers to steal what they can, money, phones, etc.

They are agressive and a menace to both the workers and tourists. They are stealing for their gang leaders as they have a quota per day to reach.

Also most of these young girls are pregnant too. So underage, pregant and aggressive not a good combination. They work for Roma gangs and are often punished severely when their quota is not met.

It's about time someone did something. It has nothing to do with tourist carrying expensive smart phones or anything else. It's the lack of enforcement and minimal fines for getting caught. And no, the kids are much younger than 13 or 14, more like 8 to 10, very fast and quick to pick a pocket.

We've had to deal with them in Pamplona during fiesta since the advent of the EU, but at least the police are working undercover and know the culprits on sight. But still, Spanish law allows them to walk free if the take is less than €400.

Also most of these young girls are pregnant too. So underage, pregant and aggressive not a good combination. They work for Roma gangs and are often punished severely when their quota is not met.>

most of them are pregnant?

often punished severely?

do you have ANY proof of this or is it just more anti-Roma verbage based on what you may suspect but which may not be true - like most of the girls are pregnant and then these pregnant girls get beat severely - well if Roma beat pregnant girls severely then that is awful - if that is what really happens then Roma are scum bags - I suspect that is not an accurate portrayal of these young girls but perhaps there is some proof for the incredulous-sounding things you say about these Roma girls.

Sorry to hear it
Leaving for Barcelona and Paris in two weeks!
I have visited both cities many times - never had a problem. So far.
The police " inaction" in Spain has been criticized here numerous times,
now it is time to " discuss " the Franchise laws.
What happens to travellers in some places is unfortunate , but we cannot
do much to influence the movement of people across EU or the laws of
a country.
Anyone familiar with the legislative process knows it take years to introduce new laws;
as tourists , we can only hope there is a movement in that direction.

I often travel alone and never really had much of a problem - at 4'10" and thin, people (if they dont'look too close LOL) think I'm a kid. As well, I am savvy and don't carry anything of value other than my camera which is small and not terribly expensive although the pictures are priceless of course. Anyway I am just very aware of my surroundings. Once in Paris my niave companion was given a rose. I quickly whipped it out of her hand and handed it back. "My rose!" exclaimed my friend and I explained to her that the man expected to be paid for it - it was not a gift. I was followed around Rome in 1977 by a man (but I dont' think he meant to steal anything) and was followed off a vaporetto in Venice. And the vendors at Trevi Fountain and the eiffel Tower can get tiresome. But I've been pretty lucky

I have to admit I've never seen this swarming stuff in Paris, and I don't even own a smartphone or carry a camera on me usually. I don't have anything to do with these street people, they pretty much leave me alone, I won't engage with them. But if you were swarmed, that would certainly be quite unpleasant, the police really should do something if it is an issue.

I have no trouble believing they are punished if they don't meet quotas, I've read various reports on this. And if you are so pro-Roma, PalenQ, why are you viewing that as anti-Roma, why did that immediately come to mind? It didn't blame them, they could well be the victims of human trafficking, actually, and the person who said that blamed the gangs, which is true, there are gangs. Here is one report on the subject http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=32379400

Hi Palenq

I have seen them leaving police stations once in the 5th and once in the 1st arrondissement, the girls were released because they were under age. The policeman escorting them out told me they were all pregant to which they overheard him and sure enough, they lifted up their tops and showed me the swelling bellies laughing at us. ALL were pregant and less than 16 years of age. All in a days work.

Here is a link to reportage in the Guardian about the gangs, beatings and quotas. It's very common, more than you can imagine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...pocketing-gang

t is a Dickensian drama that has shocked France – young girls being forced to pickpocket on the Paris metro and beaten, burned or raped if they failed to steal €300 (£255) a day.

Earlier this month, French police dismantled the biggest child pickpocketing ring ever seen in Paris, run by a patriarch who spent the cash on luxury cars and property.

But up to 100 more girls have since been stopped by officers, prompting an investigation into whether the international network is still operating despite the arrests of its ringleaders.

Fehmi Hamidovic, a 58-year-old Bosnian believed to be the mastermind behind the racket, was arrested with his two sons near Rome four weeks ago.

A dozen others were detained in the south of France and Italy, followed by more arrests in Marseille in recent weeks.

Paris's judicial police chief, Christian Flaesch, said at the time: "It feels like we have broken up a completely medieval [gang] structure."

Hamidovic, who already has a conviction for people-trafficking in Austria, is accused by Paris police of being a mafia-style patriarch running a gang of children and teenagers who brought him €1.3m in 2009 alone.

The girls, most aged between 12 and 16 and thought to be mainly Roma, were brought to France from the Balkans and trained how to steal wallets, often targeting Asian tourists, who were thought to carry the most cash.

They were given a target of at least €300 a day and, if they missed it, were punished with "ultra-violent" methods. Police said they were beaten, attacked with knives, burned with cigarettes and often raped.

The male leaders kept their distance from the everyday operation of the gang, said to have been behind 75% of thefts on the Paris metro.

The girls were trained to tell police they were 12 years old – an age at which criminal prosecution is difficult in France.

The 19 people arrested face charges ranging from criminal conspiracy to human trafficking, rape and barbarity.

I suspect the workers couldn't care less about the tourists. But if you read the article, the swarmers are also stealing from the workers!

It's probably going to take more action like this to change anything with the police.

What took Palenque so long to start crying "discrimination"?

That article TPaxe links to is so sad. No wonder these kids are so fearless, when the alternative to not bringing home the right amount of cash is so brutal.

Ugh.

I still say it is safer than Orlando, at least you don't get shot. I don't carry a lot of money and if I do I have it inside my coat pockets. Love jackets with inside pockets. I walked one day last spring all over by myself and only saw them get aggressive with a family of Chinese tourist. They grabbed the mans arm and he freaked. My husband and I ignore them, no eye contact and they never bothered us. I think these girls are older than they say and it is very sad. Going to Rome in a couple of weeks and heard it is just as bad there.

http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/loca...olice-patrol-l

It has reopened

@Kerouac I am coming to Europe for my first time next month. I am also currently unemployed (in Canada) and I see on a few of the sites that admission is free with proof of unemployment. I know it says that the list of acceptable proof is available at the Louvre, but that isn't helpful to me in my current location. Do you (or anyone reading this) happen to know what qualifies as proof? Thanks!

Not sure, but I think whatever proof you present must be from an EU country. Just be sure you do not mention your employment non-status to the immigration folks.

nukesafe..puts it in the right context..Do not mention your situation..You are on holidays!!! That's all!!!

Thanks for the info! I read "visitors" so I assumed that meant from other countries. What happens if you mention unemployment status? (just out of curiousity)

I found the scammers a mild PITA and would consider swarmers as about to commit assault and battery as a prelude to theft, but do feel for the young Africans who at least have a long association with France and a product to flog. Not worried looking after myself, but if things don't improve don't know I could be bothered bringing a laid back family (to Paris at least) knowing that I would be the one always having to keep a look out and that someone in the party may end up very upset. The real grievance though must be for the children, Roma and others, who are being cruelly exploited - crimes against humanity stuff, if the charges of slavery, rape, and barbarity are true and shown to be systematic, which should be urgently addressed as such at EU level.

Jillianchristine14 - I think the "visitors" refers to visitors to the Museum. Versailles (and probably most / all French national Museums) have a similar entry policy.

There is a very detailed document available on the Versailles website that you may find useful - http://en.chateauversailles.fr/prepa...ed-admission-1

We were in Paris in December and had no problem with "swarming" although we were pestered in Paris and across Italy by offers of "help", people collecting signatures n petitions, and plenty of people trying to get a bit too close to us and our bags - although there was one nice old lady in Paris who found a ring she thought my wife must have dropped ;-)

Because there were five of us pretty much together everywhere we went, it probably looked like we were capable of swarming them right back - we actually felt that by being alert, and being obviously alert (by playing "spot the scammer" with each other) and pointing them out, and loudly and clearly telling them to go away that we considerably reduced our attractiveness as potential targets. It possibly helps that I am 6'2" and weigh about 210 lbs, but the rest of my family are considerably smaller.

In fact the only unpleasant encounter any of us really had was at the start of our trip on a crowded bus in London - which is supposed to be much safer. We were spread out on the crowded bus aisle and a grubby little man rubbed himself up against our 20 yo daughter - she gave him a withering look, but was too embarrassed to yell at him, and not close enough to get any of the rest of us for help. She felt a bit unclean, but otherwise un-scarred by the experience, and will hopefully be more assertive if she has such problems in future!

Is this "swarming" still going on, in Paris or in other cities?


I've never seen it before, but I've seen news reports of something similar in my home city of New York, but there it seems to be (do not take my word for this) a gang of (reportedly Chileans or, more lately the Venezolano Tren de Aragua teens) entering a shop selling designer bags or very expensive jewelry, smashing the glass showcases, and making off with millions of dollars in goods that they can fence, either on 47th Street, in the case of gold or precious stones, or elsewhere for the designer handbags, sunglasses, etc.

On a related note, many of the chain drugstores in Manhattan have been closing due to rampant theft and the cost of having enough employees to curtail it..and the lack of severe penalty for the few who are caught.

The Duane Reade a half-block from my apartment has closed for this reason.


https://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/disappearing-drugstores-duane-reade-stores-on-ues-w-village-latest-to-shut-down-XE4240707

Things tend to change in 12 years. No need to revive a necropost.