Paris Louvre shuts as staff strike over pickpockets (April 2013)
 

FYI:

"One of the world's most visited museums, the Louvre in Paris, did not open on Wednesday (April 10, 2013) because of a protest by staff over pickpockets.

"Officials have been unable to say when the museum will reopen."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22098102

How do they get in? the article doesn't explain that.

we grappled for ages with the self-service ticket machines, and that was after queuing for a while.

it's not as if it's cheap.

I'm waiting for the contrary postings about how the pickpocket situation is just like every other big city, take normal precautions!

I think it's not too hard to slip in. As my current status is "unemployed," I can walk into the Louvre or the Orsay (or any other national museum) just by showing my unemployment certificate -- don't even need to get any kind of ticket. However, I am certain that even if you buy a ticket, there are huge profits to be reaped by pickpockets in the Louvre, even if they only prey on one or two people.

The Louvre employees are not paid to watch out for pickpockets. They are there to protect the art and to answer visitors' questions. I completely approve of this strike if the problem has become that bad.

I should mention that it my recent visits to the Louvre, it appeared that at least 30% of the visitors were Chinese. These people are loaded with cash because they do not have credit cards -- and they are oblivious to most risks.

"Western" tourists who are aware of pickpockets in Paris have no problem with them. There are much easier pickings to be made from the visitors from the BRIC countries.

even the French have had enough....

What is that supposed to mean?

The "kids" do not have to slip in. Children under 18 are free, and those 18 to 24 who have EU papers have free admittance, too, I think. If the cops throw them out one entrance, I suppose they can come right back in through another.

G_Hopper--I was just going to post this article and you beat me to it!

It was so upsetting to me in Fall of 2011 that I had to report "swarming" was becoming common in Paris. My daughter, a study-abroad student, had observed "swarming" in her area Starbucks, in two little Ma/Pa grocery stores (she foiled one robbery), and knew of a swarm in the Galleries Lafayette area.

Of course, some people where robbed while checking iphones on street corners, but she discounted that with, "That's stupid."

I've been going to Paris at least once yearly since 1998, and I had NEVER seen anything overtly aggressive before I visited in 2011. I got swarmed crossing the Seine by skinny teens with clipboards. Luckily a) I speak good French and am not afraid of being loud and b) I had been reaching for something in my tote, so I started swinging right and left as I shouted.

I am a rather large woman.

They DID clear off. But I was totally shocked by their aggressiveness. Had it been Barcelona or Madrid, I would have not been so upset. But this was Paris, MY Paris!

The French man that we encountered at the same time as the incident spoke to me in French that "enough is enough" because he certainly thought I was French, not a tourist. When I told him I had never seen this before, he switched to English. And he told me he knew where policemen where across the bridge and he was reporting them.

He was just SO disgusted.

Clearly, these attacks are not limited to tourists, so this "blame the victim" mentality that often resides on the forum is utterly stupid. Paris has a problem now, and it's such a shame.

These criminals are robbing people of their experiences, and to me, that's worse than the loss of any currency or cell phone.

The laws governing the charging of juveniles MUST change, and I think the walkout by the Louvre personnel makes perfect sense as an impetus to so do. Elected officials, no matter where, vote with wallets. A loss of tourism dollars makes an impression.

In a related action, the union of gold ring finders announced that they are going on strike to protest the increasing cost of brass.

Sorry I started a new thread on the same topic before finding this one.

On the radio (France Info), they said the museum should be open tomorrow. But there is no garantee I guess.

Sounds like the Louvre will be open tomorrow. On the same radio just now "The unoin of the museum personel is satisfied with reinforcement of the security staff/ police - in the museum"

Well is it not the job of museum staff to police the place - they are not doing their job? So they go on strike?

What staffers are in charge of security? Why can't they secure the Louvre?

Well again it is the Parisian and French authorities that refuse to tackle the problem - sure they are minors and can't be arrested or incarcerated but where is parental responsibility like in out states - if a kid does something wrong the parents are also responsible - can't these youths be declared delinquents and sent to some kind of home for delinquents?

Why do they French molly coddle under age thieves so so much? Especially young Romani gals - who are they stealing for?

Apparently pick picketers are willing to pay admission and go through security, etc. in many museums. We were close to being pp'd in Topkapi and admission is not cheap.

wow, I'm really surprised the staff would find it so troublesome that they would strike, but good for them. I didn't understand it until I read the article, but I guess they have been having problems getting to work and are tired of it. I just didn't know why they'd strike over pickpockets of tourists.

I've actually never seen this as a big problem and I was just there within the last 6 months. I usually go in by the metro underground entrance, but I leave to the street and hadn't noticed big gangs of kids around, maybe I'm just forgetting.

I think the issue is the street situation, not pickpockets within the museum, as they refer to problems arriving at work. It is reasonable to expect the police to do something on the street.

kerouac, you have to read your Monty Python.. :-)

Minors in France cannot be arrested or incarcerated? Wow. No wonder underage crime is such a problem.

Swarming is nothing new. I was swarmed in 1985 on the rue Royale or rue de la Paix.

The strike reminds me of when a metro line was shut down for the rest of the day because a conductor was assaulted on that line.

My impression is that they are doing the swarming WITHIN the museum. And I totally believe that.

Again, if they swept through Galleries Lafayette on the tippy top floor, they can easily do the same in any museum.

One tends to feel safe in museums...ergo...

No doubt the somewhat recent phenomenon of Tourists carrying expensive smartphones sometimes in open view has exacerbated a long standing problem. As for the workers, It would suck to have to deal with these distraught tourists every day. Maybe the strike will finally drive some meaningful changes by the authorities to address this problem in the museums and on the streets.

These kids are unde 18 years of age usually around 13 or 14 years of age, so they get in for free at the Louvre. There are usually 4 or 5 of them at a time who swarm the tourists and workers to steal what they can, money, phones, etc.

They are agressive and a menace to both the workers and tourists. They are stealing for their gang leaders as they have a quota per day to reach.

Also most of these young girls are pregnant too. So underage, pregant and aggressive not a good combination. They work for Roma gangs and are often punished severely when their quota is not met.

It's about time someone did something. It has nothing to do with tourist carrying expensive smart phones or anything else. It's the lack of enforcement and minimal fines for getting caught. And no, the kids are much younger than 13 or 14, more like 8 to 10, very fast and quick to pick a pocket.

We've had to deal with them in Pamplona during fiesta since the advent of the EU, but at least the police are working undercover and know the culprits on sight. But still, Spanish law allows them to walk free if the take is less than €400.

Also most of these young girls are pregnant too. So underage, pregant and aggressive not a good combination. They work for Roma gangs and are often punished severely when their quota is not met.>

most of them are pregnant?

often punished severely?

do you have ANY proof of this or is it just more anti-Roma verbage based on what you may suspect but which may not be true - like most of the girls are pregnant and then these pregnant girls get beat severely - well if Roma beat pregnant girls severely then that is awful - if that is what really happens then Roma are scum bags - I suspect that is not an accurate portrayal of these young girls but perhaps there is some proof for the incredulous-sounding things you say about these Roma girls.

Sorry to hear it
Leaving for Barcelona and Paris in two weeks!
I have visited both cities many times - never had a problem. So far.
The police " inaction" in Spain has been criticized here numerous times,
now it is time to " discuss " the Franchise laws.
What happens to travellers in some places is unfortunate , but we cannot
do much to influence the movement of people across EU or the laws of
a country.
Anyone familiar with the legislative process knows it take years to introduce new laws;
as tourists , we can only hope there is a movement in that direction.

I often travel alone and never really had much of a problem - at 4'10" and thin, people (if they dont'look too close LOL) think I'm a kid. As well, I am savvy and don't carry anything of value other than my camera which is small and not terribly expensive although the pictures are priceless of course. Anyway I am just very aware of my surroundings. Once in Paris my niave companion was given a rose. I quickly whipped it out of her hand and handed it back. "My rose!" exclaimed my friend and I explained to her that the man expected to be paid for it - it was not a gift. I was followed around Rome in 1977 by a man (but I dont' think he meant to steal anything) and was followed off a vaporetto in Venice. And the vendors at Trevi Fountain and the eiffel Tower can get tiresome. But I've been pretty lucky

I have to admit I've never seen this swarming stuff in Paris, and I don't even own a smartphone or carry a camera on me usually. I don't have anything to do with these street people, they pretty much leave me alone, I won't engage with them. But if you were swarmed, that would certainly be quite unpleasant, the police really should do something if it is an issue.

I have no trouble believing they are punished if they don't meet quotas, I've read various reports on this. And if you are so pro-Roma, PalenQ, why are you viewing that as anti-Roma, why did that immediately come to mind? It didn't blame them, they could well be the victims of human trafficking, actually, and the person who said that blamed the gangs, which is true, there are gangs. Here is one report on the subject http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...l?cid=32379400

Hi Palenq

I have seen them leaving police stations once in the 5th and once in the 1st arrondissement, the girls were released because they were under age. The policeman escorting them out told me they were all pregant to which they overheard him and sure enough, they lifted up their tops and showed me the swelling bellies laughing at us. ALL were pregant and less than 16 years of age. All in a days work.

Here is a link to reportage in the Guardian about the gangs, beatings and quotas. It's very common, more than you can imagine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...pocketing-gang

t is a Dickensian drama that has shocked France – young girls being forced to pickpocket on the Paris metro and beaten, burned or raped if they failed to steal €300 (£255) a day.

Earlier this month, French police dismantled the biggest child pickpocketing ring ever seen in Paris, run by a patriarch who spent the cash on luxury cars and property.

But up to 100 more girls have since been stopped by officers, prompting an investigation into whether the international network is still operating despite the arrests of its ringleaders.

Fehmi Hamidovic, a 58-year-old Bosnian believed to be the mastermind behind the racket, was arrested with his two sons near Rome four weeks ago.

A dozen others were detained in the south of France and Italy, followed by more arrests in Marseille in recent weeks.

Paris's judicial police chief, Christian Flaesch, said at the time: "It feels like we have broken up a completely medieval [gang] structure."

Hamidovic, who already has a conviction for people-trafficking in Austria, is accused by Paris police of being a mafia-style patriarch running a gang of children and teenagers who brought him €1.3m in 2009 alone.

The girls, most aged between 12 and 16 and thought to be mainly Roma, were brought to France from the Balkans and trained how to steal wallets, often targeting Asian tourists, who were thought to carry the most cash.

They were given a target of at least €300 a day and, if they missed it, were punished with "ultra-violent" methods. Police said they were beaten, attacked with knives, burned with cigarettes and often raped.

The male leaders kept their distance from the everyday operation of the gang, said to have been behind 75% of thefts on the Paris metro.

The girls were trained to tell police they were 12 years old – an age at which criminal prosecution is difficult in France.

The 19 people arrested face charges ranging from criminal conspiracy to human trafficking, rape and barbarity.

I suspect the workers couldn't care less about the tourists. But if you read the article, the swarmers are also stealing from the workers!

It's probably going to take more action like this to change anything with the police.

What took Palenque so long to start crying "discrimination"?

That article TPaxe links to is so sad. No wonder these kids are so fearless, when the alternative to not bringing home the right amount of cash is so brutal.

Ugh.

I still say it is safer than Orlando, at least you don't get shot. I don't carry a lot of money and if I do I have it inside my coat pockets. Love jackets with inside pockets. I walked one day last spring all over by myself and only saw them get aggressive with a family of Chinese tourist. They grabbed the mans arm and he freaked. My husband and I ignore them, no eye contact and they never bothered us. I think these girls are older than they say and it is very sad. Going to Rome in a couple of weeks and heard it is just as bad there.

http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/loca...olice-patrol-l

It has reopened

@Kerouac I am coming to Europe for my first time next month. I am also currently unemployed (in Canada) and I see on a few of the sites that admission is free with proof of unemployment. I know it says that the list of acceptable proof is available at the Louvre, but that isn't helpful to me in my current location. Do you (or anyone reading this) happen to know what qualifies as proof? Thanks!

Not sure, but I think whatever proof you present must be from an EU country. Just be sure you do not mention your employment non-status to the immigration folks.

nukesafe..puts it in the right context..Do not mention your situation..You are on holidays!!! That's all!!!

Thanks for the info! I read "visitors" so I assumed that meant from other countries. What happens if you mention unemployment status? (just out of curiousity)

I found the scammers a mild PITA and would consider swarmers as about to commit assault and battery as a prelude to theft, but do feel for the young Africans who at least have a long association with France and a product to flog. Not worried looking after myself, but if things don't improve don't know I could be bothered bringing a laid back family (to Paris at least) knowing that I would be the one always having to keep a look out and that someone in the party may end up very upset. The real grievance though must be for the children, Roma and others, who are being cruelly exploited - crimes against humanity stuff, if the charges of slavery, rape, and barbarity are true and shown to be systematic, which should be urgently addressed as such at EU level.

Jillianchristine14 - I think the "visitors" refers to visitors to the Museum. Versailles (and probably most / all French national Museums) have a similar entry policy.

There is a very detailed document available on the Versailles website that you may find useful - http://en.chateauversailles.fr/prepa...ed-admission-1

We were in Paris in December and had no problem with "swarming" although we were pestered in Paris and across Italy by offers of "help", people collecting signatures n petitions, and plenty of people trying to get a bit too close to us and our bags - although there was one nice old lady in Paris who found a ring she thought my wife must have dropped ;-)

Because there were five of us pretty much together everywhere we went, it probably looked like we were capable of swarming them right back - we actually felt that by being alert, and being obviously alert (by playing "spot the scammer" with each other) and pointing them out, and loudly and clearly telling them to go away that we considerably reduced our attractiveness as potential targets. It possibly helps that I am 6'2" and weigh about 210 lbs, but the rest of my family are considerably smaller.

In fact the only unpleasant encounter any of us really had was at the start of our trip on a crowded bus in London - which is supposed to be much safer. We were spread out on the crowded bus aisle and a grubby little man rubbed himself up against our 20 yo daughter - she gave him a withering look, but was too embarrassed to yell at him, and not close enough to get any of the rest of us for help. She felt a bit unclean, but otherwise un-scarred by the experience, and will hopefully be more assertive if she has such problems in future!

Is this "swarming" still going on, in Paris or in other cities?


I've never seen it before, but I've seen news reports of something similar in my home city of New York, but there it seems to be (do not take my word for this) a gang of (reportedly Chileans or, more lately the Venezolano Tren de Aragua teens) entering a shop selling designer bags or very expensive jewelry, smashing the glass showcases, and making off with millions of dollars in goods that they can fence, either on 47th Street, in the case of gold or precious stones, or elsewhere for the designer handbags, sunglasses, etc.

On a related note, many of the chain drugstores in Manhattan have been closing due to rampant theft and the cost of having enough employees to curtail it..and the lack of severe penalty for the few who are caught.

The Duane Reade a half-block from my apartment has closed for this reason.


https://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/disappearing-drugstores-duane-reade-stores-on-ues-w-village-latest-to-shut-down-XE4240707

Things tend to change in 12 years. No need to revive a necropost.