Paris is OVERWHELMING!
 

I am taking a trip to Belgium this winter but flying into Paris for a much cheaper fare. I have been to Paris several times for short periods, and have never been able to get into its groove, so to speak. Because I don't have the luxury of staying for very long when I'm on holiday I prefer smaller cities that I can get to know very well (which is why I'm going to Bruges and Ghent). I guess I'm wondering if anyone can make a case for spending some time in Paris, even if it's only a couple of days, without feeling like you didn't get it at all (and note I'm a fluent French speaker who lived in the Alps for 3 years so it's not a cultural problem).

It sounds like you just don't like large cities, although you haven't said if your feeling is peculiar to Paris or any large city.

Sure, I could, but if you truly have no desire to go there, I wouldn't say you had to. If you are a fluent French speaker, though, this is even odder to me, unless you have no interest in architecture or art or museums. If not, I could see how you might say so what. If you do want to try it, I'd just suggest you go to Paris and have a plan to just focus on one small area so it doesn't seem overwhelming. That could be St-Germain or the Latin Qtr or Marais, for example. Or, you could stay around Hotel de Ville and Louvre and not budge much from there. But without knowing what you like to do in cities, it's kind of hard to suggest anything.

There are certainly large cities in the world that I have no particular desire to visit even though they are English-speaking, and many in my own country.

Having been to Bruges, though, I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time there, it's too cute and like Disneyland. Sure, I liked it, but a couple days was enough for me.

mp, Christina's idea is a good one. Pick one small area of Paris to stay in, explore that neighborhood, and don't attempt to do more. That's a lot like staying in a smaller town.

Or, select 1-2 things to do that really appeal to you, and just wander around the rest of the time. If you eliminate the pressure to "do" Paris, you might discover how charming it is.

Christina, thanks for responding. I am quite fond of big cities (I live in NYC) and was an architecture student! It's not that I have no interest in what's to see in Paris, it's rather that there is so much there I don't even know how/where I would start. Your suggestion to focus on one area sounds very suitable for me, so if you have any ideas on what that one area might be I would be most grateful! Thanks!

mp413 yes Paris is overwhelming! There is so much to see and do and it is so huge! Even though it was published in 2000 Fodors has a book "Fodor's to Go 48 Hours in Paris". I saw it on Amazon for as little as $3.00 used...perhaps it might give you some sample itineraries. But I do see your point it took me several trips to really absorb the city. Even now many trips later there is still something new. So I can see your point. I wish I was a fluent French speaker...that certainly makes it far easier to adjust. Best of luck.

Thanks for the book tip Katherine. Do you have a suggestion for 48 hours in Paris (a neighborhood to focus on, etc.)? I imagine that wouldn't even be enough time to see the Louvre...

Paris is one of my favourite city, I could spend a lots of time there, just walking around and enjoy the scenery. But not everyone has the same feelings that I have for this city. My DH for example, never cared for Paris. The city, despite its beauty leave him indifferent, and he rather go to Rome instead. Now DH in his Air Force career has travelled everywhere in the world, so he used to see interesting places... but Paris is not for Him...

You could stay in the St. Germaine area, where there are a number of beautiful old churches within walking distance (St. Germaine, St. Sulpice, St. Severin, not to mention the Notre Dame and St. Chapelle). There are many intriguing narrow streets to wander, wonderful cafes where you can sit and just "observe" Paris, and of course, there's the Seine. The Cluny Museum is there, and it would fit the bill for small and not overwhelming.

Or....you could buy a 2-day open bus tour pass, and just ride around the major areas of Paris, seeing the highlights and getting a feel for the layout of the city.

Whatever you choose to do, I hope you go, because it's a glorious city!

Joyce

mp413 tell us what types of things you like to do (eat, go to museums, cathedrals,shop, walk etc..). What I might like to do might bore you to tears....

mp...we were there in June, and we both absolutely loved it. But, we used a guide for 2 of the 6 days we were there, and that made a huge difference. His name is Michael Osman, and he has been recommended highly from this board, where we learned about him. He is a former American art student, and can really help you scratch the surface a little deeper and more meaningfully. It helped us tremendously. With your background, you would do great with him since he is great at planning a day that centers around your interests.

Wren, the tour guide sounds great. Not to be unseemly, but could you give me an idea of how much he charges (by day, 1/2 day)?

Katherine, visiting/walking through historical/architectural sites is #1 for the day, eating and drinking is #1 at night. (In London drinking would be daytime activity #2 because of all the pubs, but I don't expect it's quite like that in Paris). Living in NY I have my fill of museums. (That's not to say I wouldn't love to go to the Louvre for my entire trip but it's just not my priority when I don't have all the time in the world, you know?)

He really is great....he charged the 2 of us 75 euros for the whole day, and I mean from 10:00 to 21:00. He gave us an experience we could have not gotten on our own, because he has been doing this for quite awhile, and he really knows his way around. He is very flexible, comes to your hotel, listens to what you want to do, and then you tour receiving a lot of info and background. http://www.geocities.com/parisfinder/ is his website, but calling works as well.

mp413 with your background in architecture I would then go see places of great interest depending what style you liked etc...Organize them by district (arrondisements). Decide if you want to tour any of them. Check out the opening/closing hours. Figure out an organized route (to maximize your time). I did a search on Google and found lots of online resources for important buildings, structures etc.
As far as places to eat..if time is of the essence eat a light meal while out and about. Eat your main meal in the evening. Since I have not been to Paris recently, someone else or recent trip reports might clue you in on the best eating and nightlife.
I wish you a very nice trip. What a nice "problem" you have :)

Hi mp,

I would suggest the Marais as an area to focus on. I spent some time there last trip and enjoyed it. There's several museums, charming squares, churches, interesting food, walking tours etc.

As an alternative to an area I would choose a theme and focus on that. Suggestions are: the morning markets, a particular artist, or artistic period. The artistic period would be multi-disciplinary and could be interesting. Choose an era and discover the painters, sculptors, writers, musicians, and architects who contributed during that time.

adrienne

I think the guide idea is a good one. I also think concentrating on one area is a good idea. What about staying on Ile de la Cite which is residential, charming, has restaurants, is near Notre Dame? Make it YOUR home. I've taken note of these 3 hotels on the ile-Hotel Lutece, Hotel des deux Iles and Hotel St. Louis.

I 2nd Adrienne's suggestion of the Marais. I was thinking that as I read thru the responses. It has that wonderful little village feel with the old buildings, picturesque squares, plus there're lots of small, non-overwhelming museums to visit. I've also heard only really good comments about Michael Osman, as well. He's very knowledgable concerning art & architecture.

I think you have received some great suggestions - and I agree with Mclaurie about staying on Ile de la Cite. We enjoyed walking, shopping, eating, etc. and most of all just sitting and enjoying a drink overlooking the Seine. This is a great area - the hotels looked lovely, and we thought this would be our first choice of places to stay in Paris. There are so many neighborhoods - and we enjoyed many of them. We are planning another trip to Paris as we never have a lot of time when we are there either. In fact, we spend most of our time in small villages because this is what we prefer. But we still love Paris - but mainly because we do what has been suggested here - we break it down into neighborhoods and concentrate on one at a time.

Hi mp413,
When we went to Paris I used paris vision. They have a website now but don't think they did when I went and I faxed them. We did a full day tour that went to the the musee d'orsay and other sites. We also did a night tour that included the moulin rouge. You may not like group tours but our group was not too large, we had a good guide and saw a lot of things. However, I was there for several days and did other things on our own. If you are traveling alone, you might enjoy others for a brief time. Anyway you could check it out if you desire. Now you know how I feel in NYC--too much to do and not ever enough time but I pack it in and enjoy what I have time for and hope to go back again for more. Since you studied architecture you might want to research and see some of that. You may have already done all the "tourist" stuff but if you have not been to the Rodin museum it was great. There is so much to do there (as in NYC), just pick some things and enjoy what you do. Ride the subway and go to Pere La Chaise (sp) cemetary. Visit Sainte Chapelle for fabulous stained glass. Go inside the Garnier Opera house. See Monet's water lillies . Happy travels.

I can recommend the Hotel du Lutece on the Ile Saint Louis. We stayed there last June and loved it. It is an ideal location for exploring the Marais as it is a 5 minute walk from there, as well as a 5 minute walk to Notre Dame.

The Ile is an oasis in the midst of Paris and you will feel as if you are living in a tiny village.

I also wold suggest concentrating on the Marais. For museums there are the Carnavalet (history of Paris), the Picasso and the Hotel de Soubise for its interiors. Pour flâner, you can do the Place des Vosges and the small streets west of it. If you are there on a Sunday, you can do the Sunday market on the Blvd. Richard Lenoir. Finally, the Notre Dame and Sainte Chapelle are not far away.

I also discovered the Ile St Louis area for the first time october last year and thought it was wonderful, those gorgeous little shop fronts and narrow cobblestoned streets.

Using Michael is a great idea--I have met him and he is super nice. His prices are reasonable--why not ask him. Here is a site that might lead you around.
http://www.hemispheresmagazine.com/three/paris.htm

Personally I do not agree with Paris being "so huge". I find it quite small and walkable by comparison to other world cities, particularly in the more popular central areas where many/most of the sights/sites are.

Hi mp413 - My first trip to Paris I took a half-day tour, glimpsed the sights, and then started walking around on my own. As others have suggested here, walking around Paris is utterly wonderful. Try the area near the Eiffel Tower - or the 5th. Just poke around - look into little shops, stop, eat, drink, watch. I always spend an afternoon in a park, doing absolutely nothing (maybe taking photos). Paris has its attractions we all know about, but I fell in love with it just meandering about. And by the way - Paris in the winter is incredible; the light on a sunny day is too too wonderful; the long shadows, the clear air. I have a great photo of three simple bare trees, the ground underneath them manicured into circles, through the mist in the distance you can just make out a silhouette of the Eiffel Tower. Winter is a fantastic time to be in Paris. Go to Fauchon's and stand outside the bakery window when they open the vents. Egad - heavenly fragrances!! Well, sorry, I could go on forever - it's my favorite city. Even if you don't go, thanks for a chance to walk down memory lane.

mp413,
I think everyone here is on to something. In fact, I think by just concentrating on one neighborhood for a few days, you'll appreciate Paris even MORE than someone touring seven distict neighborhoods in seven days. Added bonus, you'll have six more visits to look foward to! It really doesn't matter what order, but I'd start with St. Germain area.

I like a lot of the advice given, and was intrigued that you were an architecture student. I made a connect from "never been able to get into its groove" and "prefer smaller cities" and "lived in the Alps." MP, we happen to love the city of Bern, Switzerland because a)its architectural style with red roofs is so appealing and b) its layout makes instant sense.

I think there are several ways to approach Paris with that in mind. I have a thing for the rebuilding/revamping of Paris from around 1870 to year 1900, the year of the Paris Exposition. So much of what people think of as Paris is due to that era.

This site has a good chronological outline of architecture from which to begin http://www.archiseek.com/guides/france/paris/

A wonderful place to start your physical tour is in the Musee d'Orsay. Not only does the building itself exemplify the railroad terminals of the turn of the century (ending the era I'm discussing)and not only is the artwork in the building representative of the terrific output during those years, but on the ground floor under one's feet in glass is a wonderful street layout of late 1800s Paris. Next to that is a diorama of the Opera Garnier, built around 1875, I believe.

Walk over to Opera Garnier and take a tour there. Hop up to Sacre Coueur to see that, making sure to visit the Metro Abesses, Hector Grimard's Art Nouveau design. End with the Eiffel Tower, the peak monument of this period of amazing growth and change. In between, you can walk the city in search of all the secret Passages, the forerunner of suburban malls.

This is just scratching the surface, but it gives you an idea of a way to attack the city, and I think it fits with your "architecture during the day" wish.

Does that mean you should stay near the Musee d'Orsay, or near Sacre Couer, or near Opera Garnier? No, I think you can stay in almost any Paris neighborhood and get your "eating/drinking at night" thing because the metro gives you such great access to sightseeing anything you want. If you choose to focus on this era, perhaps staying near Rue Cler (see Rick Steves stuff) or near St. Germain de Pres would make you feel very much a part of it.

And please don't get me wrong. I love the Marais (that's where we'll be staying from here on in) and I love Ile de St. Louis (it's the Paris represented in Disney World), so I'm not excluding them from where you stay.

Just an idea: P is too big, varied, interesting to sample or see in only a few days. Repeated trips are one answer to gaining an overall feel. BUT there may be an approach you can use to get P into your brain visually to which you can refer as you walk about seeing the few things you can see in one or two days. If you can close your eyes and "see" P, perhaps this wonderful city will appear less overwhelming. Here's what I do to help first timers:

On a shirt cardboard - draw the Seine river line - sort of a lazy curve going upward and then back down.

Next, draw adjoining circles for each of the arrondisements, starting at #1 next to the river, working clockwise and going outward, numbering each as you go, from #2, #3, #4 .... to #20. You an now see the result - Paris in its 20 sections.

As a new visitor, you'll probably focus on #1-#7, so learn a little about each, for example, 2-3 places each contains, such as Louvre, etc.

You can now visualize Paris, how it's shaped and its "system" of neighborhoods. This will make it easier to use your city map, understand the Metro network, decide which major streets and bridges get you from one area to the next quickly.

Drawing a city can offer an immediate intimacy with that city that poring over maps unaided by some discovery first will never provide. Give it a try, and then close your eyes - and voila, there's Paris, imprinted on your brain as it has been for many others, for decades.

Hi,

I would also recommend staying on Ile St Louis..great atmosphere and you could eat at a different restaurant on the island every night and eat very well. You also might want to consider walking tours...PAris Walks is one that I've done a couple of times. Since you are bilingual, I also recommend some on the "Visites et Conferences" found in Pariscope and L'Officiel des Spectacles.. I did a few of these and found them different since most of the people taking them are locals, so the style of the tours is different...since they all have an understanding of French history. I have also purchase a couple of books by Thirza Valois. She has borken Paris into arrondisements, and written detailed walking/historical tours for groups of arrondisements. Haven't tried any yet, but they do seem very well written.

Hope this helps!

Santé!

Mike

Hi, mp413!

You are getting some great, great suggestions here! As usual, Fodorites give the best advice!

Don't know how much more I can add, but here goes!

Paris is NOT like New York, Paris is more like Washington DC. Except for the skyscrapers built during the Pompidou era, all buildings in Paris cannot exceed a certain height. Thus, Paris is spread out and "low lying". Yet there is a "center" to Paris which is pretty much focused on the 8 arrondisements by the Seine River. smilingstill has given you a neat way to remember the concentric, spiral curling of the arrondisements as they wind their way around Paris, with the smaller numbers at the center and gradually winding their way upward and outward.

Another way that Paris should not be overwhelming is that each arrondisement, translated as "district", actually has its own mayor's (mairie) office. This gives each arrondisement its own unique flavor and gives all of Paris its charm. You can break up your visit to Paris more or less by arrondisement, as we all seem to do. This is why one poster says he/she will visit the Marais on the next trip over. We cannot see everything in Paris on one trip, let alone a couple of days, so we divide our trips by area/arrondisement: Montmartre, Marais, Latin Quarter, St. Germain, and so forth. You will find that if you divide Paris up like this and take it one area at a time, as several posters have suggested, then it will not be overwhelming at all.

Who knows? You may so succumb to the charms of walking around Paris, the way the rest of us have, that you will decide on a return trip! Personally, I really like Amelia's suggestions on the architecture of Paris and may do a variation of her suggestions on our next trip over!

Happy travels!
Jason

mp, I completely agree with the advice to concentrate on one area at a time. The only promblem I have ever had with this system is that I fall so completely in love with the area that I want to go back again and again and never get around to the other areas!
Have a wonderful time visiting "your" little area of Paris and then Belgium!

Wow--I am so impressed and grateful for all the great advice I've been given! I hope to be able to reciprocate at some point. I think I need to do some more investigation as to what area to focus on, they all sound wonderful. One consideration is that my travelling partner speaks English only, and is only beginning to explore outside the US (been to Europe once), so will most likely want to do some of the more obvious things (Eiffel tower etc.) I am dying to go to Musee d'Orsais so will try to fit that in. I've been to Sainte Chappelle and naturally want to go back. Since we'll probably be using the metro a lot during the day anyway, I would love to know what area would be good for evenings. It would be nice to be staying in a hotel in an area we wouldn't have to venture from at night (so full of restaurants and nice walking, along the Seine would be great). Also, hotel suggestions in such areas would be most welcome! (And please note, we ain't rich!) Thanks again to everyone! PS--I will definitely be getting in touch with Michael, so thanks to everyone who recommended him.

My advice based on your last post: stay in the Marais.

You could stay on either the Ile St-Louis or the Marais or St-Germain, that's what I'd recommend based on your last post. The Ile doesn't have many hotels, however, and none that are really budget.

Your last post is making this sound pretty much like any regular trip to Paris, however, at this point--seeing major tourist sites and taking the metro around the city a lot. As an architecture student, I could recommend some areas such as the 16th or 7th to focus on, if you were particularly interested in Art Nouveau. There are also some in Montparnasse and the Batignolles area. I think you need a specific focus and plan in that regard, however -- you might be interested in some of the more modern buildings, such as the Pei pyramind, La Defense, there are Corbusier buildings, etc, even some Art Deco examples (although not many, Paris is great for Art Nouveau but not much Art Deco).

The center of the city is very very old (surprise) so would probably be of more interest to an architectural history student.

What is your budget on hotels, I still think Marais, St-Germain or Ile St-Louis but this is getting to be like a regular trip and may be overwhelming if that's what you did before.

Paris is a pretty large city as a whole, it's the largest in France, so that's my perspective. I live in Wash DC and it only has about 600K population in the city proper and is much smaller than Paris which has over 2 million in the city itself. I know some people don't like any city over the size of 100K or so.

Perhaps you felt overwhelmed before not because of Paris or its size but just because you didn't have a game plan or know where to stay, etc. I think that can happen to folks who don't plan ahead or understand the geography and arrondisements.

I do recommend the conferences listed in Pariscope which can be walking tours of small neighborhood areas, but it sounds like you may not have the time. For example, last summer in Paris I took two that were like that: one concentrated on the Batignolles area in the 17th arr. and the other interior gardens/private streets with a lot of flowers and parks in the 13th arr./Buttes-aux-Cailles.

Can recommend the Hotel Europe St. Severin, on rue St. Severin, just steps off Blvd St. Michel and a stone's throw from the Seine. A 5-minute walk from St. Chapelle and Notre Dame. A double goes for 115 euros, small but nicely decorated, with A/C. We liked the variety of cafes and nightlife just outside our door, and you can't beat the location. Literally steps from the St. Michel metro and RER.

Great ideas here. We felt overwhelmed also when planning our trip and took others advice about looking into Michael the tour guide. We cannot recommend his services enough. We feel we would not have seen as much of Paris without his help. Kept saying to ourselves that we would not have seen half of what we saw without his help. If you are really at a loss for ideas to help you see Paris-contact Michael.

I also disagree that Paris is "huge." It's actually quite small by city standards, at least geographically. It does contain a wealth of things to see and do, though, so in that sense it is large and possibly overwhelming.

I agree that focusing on one area is probably a good idea for 2-3 days. Also, using a guide is a good idea. I had lunch at La Coupole about 10 days ago with a group of people from the AOL and Fodors message boards and one of them, plus another woman I met in Paris on the same trip, had used Michael Osman on separate occasions and been VERY disappointed in him. They both said he didn't speak French, which they had fully expected him to be able to do, and one said she hired him to take her shopping and he basically dumped her at the door of department stores, which she could have easily managed herself. Now, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE - I am merely repeating information I got from two different people with two recent experiences, and I have no personal stake in this as I don't use guides myself, but if it is, and you are a French speaker, this might not be the guide for you. I do know a fabulous tour guide in Paris who has 20 years of experience with ParisVision who is going out on her own. She's French, and even when I met her 20+ years ago she knew more about Paris than anyone I've met since. If you or anyone else is interested in further information, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]. Again, I'm just a messenger. I understand many people have been extremely happy with Michael Osman's services. But there are alternatives.
There also used to be a publication called "Paris Walks." I don't know if it's still in print, but it contained some absolutely wonderful planned walks around the city in different areas. I used it on several occasions back in the 80s and learned a tremendous amount about Paris from it.
Also, bus routes 29, 69, and 96 are great for seeing the major sights of the city. You might ride one or more of them and get off to visit some of the important sites and areas.
I hope you find your groove in Paris this time around.

My dear mp,

May I respectfully suggest that your problem with Paris is that you have never immersed yourself in the city?

This trip, forget Belgium. Spend all of your time in Paris. Pick one "must see" per day and spend the rest of your time walking around the area, sitting at cafes and people watching and just getting the feel of the city.

I think that Paris is the most vibrant and alive city in the world, and I am saddened that you haven't gotten the feel of it.

Focus on one neighborhood and it is not overwhelming at all. I would give this advice for any urban area (New York City, my hometown of Seattle, etc.). Large cities are truly a collection of small towns adjoining geographically! And if you approach it this way, it is absolutely as easy as what you've experienced in smaller places.

ira, you're right that my problem is that I haven't ever immersed myself in the city, but I attribute that to the brevity of my visits there. Unfortunately, I don't get to visit Europe more than once a year, and Belgium is a must for me. So we'll have 5 full days in Paris, mon-fri. We couldn't find a cheap enough place on Ile St. Louis but we're staying near it, at Esmeralda in the 5th. We plan to make that area our base, and take the subway out to see the 'must-sees' (Eiffel Tower, Sacre Coeur). Thanks for all the wonderful advice. Esmeralda has gotten mixed reviews here so I'm excited to find out how it is--and of course let all of you know. A bientot!

StCirq, I was surprised to read a poor mention of Michael's services. We had the chance of using him during our trip this year in Paris. As part of one of our days with him I had him accompany me as an assistant to my shopping chores. He did quite a lot more than leave me at the door of any department store! He was extremely helpful in getting me to the shops that I wanted. Knowing where to find exactly what I was searching to bring home from Paris for myself and gifts for others back home. He had to help me explain what I wanted to a sales person in French, so I am surprised that someone said he does not speak the French language. We found his knowledge of the French language a huge help to us along with his informative history talks about the sites we visted together and especially the art of Paris. Take him with you when you visit the Louvre and d'Orsay! He made our trip. We had a wonderful experience with Michael. I'm sure that personalities may differ from person to person. Still, I can't imagine anyone not getting along with such an easy going gentleman like Michael. People should contact him themselves to find out just how helpful he can be.
Laura

I don't think negative things should be repeated abbout someone like Mr. Osman unless it was YOUR personal experience. That makes it gossip.