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Paris History Trivia Test -- Where is Robespierre?
That's just the easy one but I figured it would get someone's attention -- maybe Robespierre himself. But it stumped me for a bit--I was reading a book by a British historian on Napoleon and it said there is a metro stop named after even Robespierre in Paris, but none for Napoleon. I had never heard of it and was skeptical, but I did find it.
My real question was a statement this author made about the fact that nothing in Paris is named after Napoleon as they distance themselves from him and that history (even though they name a metro stop after Robespierre, which is kind of odd). There aren't really that many places named after various kings, I thought -- not a lot of Louis XVI metro stops, either. Anyway, I thought -- there is rue Bonaparte, that seems obvious. But then this author had a small footnote claiming that didn't count because it was obviously named after Napoleon as a general and not as emperor. hmmm, I wondered if that were true or how he knew that. Does anyone know the history of the name of that street? I know it's been named that since at least about 1850. Does anyone have a copy of "Histoire de Paris Rue par Rue" or "Histoire et memoire du nom des rues de Paris" by Alfred Fierro around? I just wondered if they said anything on that street. This is for a book group and we are meeting tonight, so thought it would be fun to know -- the book is Napoleon by Steven Englund which I did not like so much (maybe I'm not academic enough), but out of interest I picked up Napoleon, His Wives and Women by Christopher Hibbert (another British historian) and I loved that book. Maybe I'm not academic enough for the Englund as I like the info on the clothes, living arrangements, love affairs and women, but I really learned more in that book about the period and history and wars than I did the other one, as you do get that in there in the background, and it held my attention more. It had lots of good supplementary info, also (pictures, even of where Napoleon was born, lineage charts, chronology, etc.), which the Englund book lacked. So I can recommend this Hibbert book for good reading, and I've found he round several others on the French Revolution and Napoleon (as well as some on Italy and England). if anyone knows the history of rue Bonaparte, I'd be interested |
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weren't there more than one Bonaparte who were Emperors - like the ones around 1850?
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There is however a Cours Napoleon in the Louvre.
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Rue de la Paix, Paris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Rue de la Paix, in the IIe arrondissement of Paris, though depending somewhat on ... At first named Rue Napoléon, its name was changed at the Bourbon ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rue_de_la_Paix,_Paris - Reid Productions, Diana Reid Haig, Elliot MazerWalk west on boulevard Saint Germain, pass rue Bonaparte (which is now the only street in Paris named after Napoleon), |
There was a Napoleon I and III. I believe the throne room at the Louvre is #IIIs.
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ah yes - Paris and her inhabitants distanced themselves from Napoleon in the mid-1800s?!
Well, it stands to reason. I simply wonder, why they reinterred him in the Dôme des Invalides under big pomp and had that church turned into a shrine to his memory in 1841? Your British historian should have his fact checked or his head examined.... By the way: Robespierre Metro station is not in Paris, but in Saint-Denis. Politically Saint-Denis has been left wing for decades. Robespierre is not only remembered as the dictator of the terror; his life and actions were far more complex than this (but I fear your British historian would probably not know too much about this). |
I just googled (on the French google site - www.google.fr) rue bonaparte paris histoire and got a ton of urls.
Can't check them now myself, but it might give you some good leads. |
Napoleon's stuffed dog is also in the Invalides
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Actually, the métro stop Robespierre is in Montreuil.
Of course, even if the name Napoléon is avoided, there are plenty of references to his victories: Wagram, Austerlitz, Jena. |
I wonder if Corsica has streets, squares, etc. named after Napoleon?
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Cours Napoléon is the main drag of Ajaccio.
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I did think of Google as I know how to use it very well and know French so I googled before I posted, but none of those threads answered this question, unfortunately, and I looked and read a lot of them. I did almost buy that history of the names of streets book when I was in Paris last time, as I wanted it, but didn't because it was so big (darn). I couldn't find that book on the internet excerpted.
The citation by MichelParis was somewhat useful though, in that it appears to be official -- most of it doesn't have anything to do with history, but at the bottom it does say it was named after Napoleon I, emperor (there were 3 napoleons, and I thought maybe the III named it after himself as that was around the time he was in charge, actually, and they did a lot of street renovations -- or that he could have named it after his ancestor). Englund is pretty well-known and educated, and the fact that France doesn't revere Napoleon so much as other figures isn't really a radical opinion, and not something I quarrel with him about that much. He was re-interred in Paris later on (due to intercession by some to Louis-Philippe, I think, it wasn't that France adored him at that point given he was exiled, and so was his nephew still at that point). It wasn't that France was dying to bring him back for that reason. But that was a long time ago, and this author was talking about attitudes towards him in more modern times. He did make some snarky comment about how the big deal of Invalides is just to re-assure themselves he's still dead. He wasn't stating that was the attitude towards him in the 1800s, he was talking about now. I did find Robespierre metro stop out in Montreuil,which is very leftie, that's true. I hadn't thought of that. I read somewhere that his sister Pauline and Josephine lived on rue Bonaparte at some point, and wondered if that could have just been the reason, but obviously it couldn't have been called rue Bonaparte when they lived there. It was named in 1852, if I understand the document on the www.v1.paris.fr thread, which just says it was named after Napoleon. I don't know how Englund can know it was named after him as a General, not an Emperor (or if that even means anything, I would say it's sort of a silly thing to say if it wasn't named until after his death). Unless I am misunderstanding that document as to when it first got that name. It says "arr. du 12 aout 1852" which I am taking to mean that's when it was named, but am not sure what "arr." is an abbreviation for (arrondisement wouldn't make sense in that phrase). It's under the heading of "denomination" so that's what I think it means. Interesting comment about the names of his victories, I hadn't thought of that. That's a good point. |
arr. is probably short form of "arrete", which is a government order/law.
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I think "arr" is an abbreviation for a French legal term standing for arrêté which means order or decree -- if anyone French can verify that, then "arr du 12 aout 1852" under deonomination, would mean it was named rue Bonaparte by order on that date, I guess.
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" ...there are plenty of references to his victories: Wagram, Austerlitz, Jena."
Not only his victories; there are a number of boulevards named after Napoleon's marshals: Berthier, Kellerman, MacDonald, Masséna, Murat, Ney, Oudinot and Soult come to mind. Anselm |
Which Napoleon are all those pastries named after then?
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Which part of Robespierre are you looking for? The bloody mass murderer had his head severed from his guts portion in 1794. |
Dukey, you always get to the heart of the matter, don't you?
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With the very greatest of respect for Christina (whether or not she believe it) since everyone seems to be wondering about whether or not there was, or is, respect for Napoleon, etc., etc., it suddenl;y dawned on me that there are those pastries called "Napoleons" and I honestly wonder if they were named after one particular Napoleon.
I apologize if my question seems snarky, etc., but it isn't. OTOH, the naming of any Metro stop surely happened years ago and I do wonder if the politics of the area in which a stop is located rally had anything to do with its naming. |
Dukey,
I doubt that the métro stop Louise-Michel would have been so named in the 16th arrondissement. Political tendencies have a definite role in the naming of métro stations, especially in the period before W.W.I and after the Dreyfus affair. |
Unfortunately, all I know of Louise-Michel is that she was a well-known anarchist and communard. Didn't she at one time actually advocate the destruction of Paris?
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Not snarky, <i>funny</i> - I laughed! thanks.
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Speaking of Robespierre - the fodorite - where is he?
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Dukey,
You are correct about Louise Michel, and she also spent a number of years in New Caledonia (I believe). But that is why no métro station would be named after her in the 16th while it has been in Levallois-Perret. |
"Napoleon" is the English name for those pastries. The French name is <b> mille-feuilles</b>.
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However, were this Métro station in Levallois built today, it certainly wouldn't be named "Louise-Michel". Lveallois has hugely changed since the 1930s ...
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People tend to distinguish between Bonaparte, the revolutionary general, that is roughly before 1800, Bonaparte the First Consul (1800-1804)and Napoleon the emperor (1804-1814). Of course, his nephew Napoleon III, to whom Paris owes so much of its architecture, came much later (1855-1870).
Napoleon I was celebrated throughout the 19th century, whatever the regime, because is was a simple way for governments to flatter a significant part of public opinion : it was the liberal monarchy of Louis-Philippe who had Napoleon's remains translated from St. Helena to Paris in 1840. Today, Napoleon is no longer politically correct in France, as some historians emphasized the fact that he re-established slavery in the French colonies, which had been abolished by the revolution. The Napoleonic bicentennials of the last few years (coronation, battle of Austerlitz) have been very low-key, while the French navy sent an aircraft carrier to Southampton as part of the Trafalgar anniversary celebrations... On the contrary, Napoleon III, long loathed for his foolish foreign policy and his responsability in the French defeat during the Franco-prussian war of 1870, has been re-evalued in the last decades, especially for his role as a modernisor (the railroads, urban renewal, etc). Therefore, contrary to what visitors might believe, few things are "Napoleon's" in Paris. Among the most common errors : - "Napoleon's apartments" in the Louvre : they were designed for the Duc de Morny, in the 1850's, that is much after Napoleon's death (1821).They are absolutely not in Napoleonic style, - "Napoleon's tomb" : in fact the Dome church, as part of the Invalides complex, was built much before Napoleon (1710). It was simply remodelelled in the 1850's to accomodate Napoleon's huge sarcophagus. Few of the places where N. lived still stand in Paris, since the Tuileries palace burnt down during the Paris Commune (1870). Outside Paris visitors with an interest in Napoleonic history and decoration may visit : - The Malmaison - The Grand Trianon at Versailles - the chateaux of Fontainebleau and Compiègne |
Trudaine,
thank you very much for posting that condolidated history as I found it helpful. Now I will spend the rest of my days wondering which English-speaking individual named those pastries after which of the several Napoleons! |
Metro stations are named after the streets, squares or train stations they are at.
So your question is really, "why is there no avenue Napoléon in Paris?" |
Or railroad stations perhaps?
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Dukey- Now you can ease your mind!
< Origin of the name 'Napoleon' The name appears to come from napolitain, the French adjective for the Italian city of Naples, but altered by association with the name of Emperor Napoleon I of France. There is no evidence to connect the pastry to the emperor himself.> In France, a Napoléon is a kind of mille-feuille filled with almond paste |
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>In France, a Napoléon is a kind of mille-feuille filled with almond paste
I have this memory of Napoleons being a rectangle of sponge cake (possibly almond cake) topped with whipped cream, in a trapezoidal cross-section, and covered with chocolate. If it's not a Napoleon, does anyone know what it is? ((I)) |
If you ask for a Napoléon in France, anybody in France will tell you that today's price is 95 euros. The Napoléon is the 20 franc gold coin first minted in 1803 and used as currency until the first World War.
As for a mille-feuilles (the thing called a Napoleon in the U.S.), it is a rectangle with grotesque thick white icing with chocolate stripes and most definitely no whipped cream. |
<i>However, were this Métro station in Levallois built today, it certainly wouldn't be named "Louise-Michel". Levallois has hugely changed since the 1930s ...</i>
Whereas "Robespierre", located in the second biggest city of Mali, might still be given that name. |
The city of Paris renamed the square at the bottom of Sacré Coeur "place Louise Michel" just a few years ago. Before that it bore the name "place Willette," a painter who was a notorious antisemite.
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Nothing named for Napoleon in Paris? You've got to be kidding. They're everywhere. If you don't believe me, here's a picture:
http://www.fotosearch.com/BDX132/bxp28775/ |
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