Paris first timer needs restaurant advice. Please!
 

Hello all. I will be in Paris on Oct. 1st throught the 8th and have some questions and am hoping that some of you might assist me. First, I am staying on the Champs Elysees @ the Marriott (It is already paid for so I dont need hotel suggestions!) but do not have Champs Elysees money!!! I have done some research and have found many places that I want to try but just not enough time to do it in. Having said that, I am thinking of going to Le Clos du Gourmets in the 7th the first night. Is this a good idea and is it going to be close enough to the hotel? I also plan on eating @ Le Violon d'Ingres for lunch on the 3rd, Taillevent for lunch on the 5th (they still have the 70 euro lunch available, oui?) , Le Comptoir du Relais for lunch on Saturday (unless you guys think dinner would be better on Saturday), Fish La Boissonerie for dinner maybe Saturday the 6th then closing with Reminet in the 5th on Sunday the 7th. I want to try , L'Ami Jean, Cafe Constant, Spring (in the 9th), Chez Clovis and Chez Denise.
Ok, so now you have heard some of my ideas. What would you say I need to reserve before I go? I think the concierge can take care of most of that but what must I absolutely reserve before I go? Also, can anyone recommend a good (no, great) place for lunch in Montmarte? Thanks for any and all assistance. I want to get a good feel for Paris during my first trip and want it to be special for my new wife. Cheers.

btt

"can anyone recommend a good (no, great) place for lunch in Montmarte"

La Mascotte 52, rue des Abbesses
01 46 06 28 15 18th arrondissement

We had a reservation at L'Ami Jean and I'm glad we did. They rang the hotel in the morning for confirmation and it was packed before 8.30pm. Great place and food. Wanted to go to Fish but one of the owners was getting married on that day so no go. We made reservations for all Paris restaurants we wanted to go to before we left home a month earlier - safer and you won't have to worry about it once there.

Yikes!!! Restaurant reservations? I awoke with a start yesterday when I realized we had no room reservations in Switzerland and Italy Just wondering how many people make reservations before they arrive in Paris?? We leave next week to embark upon a house exchange and side trips to Geneva and Turin.

back to the top.

I'm not sure what you mean by Champs Elysées money, but it seems you're already planning to eat at some pretty expensive places in Paris, so what IS your food budget?

I'm a major foodie, but my body could never absorb that many high-end meals in such a short time. Is your goal to have some major gastronomic experience with every meal during your week in Paris? I'm not sayin' there's anything wrong with that; I just personally would prefer a few laid-back bistros and brasseries and cafés. One of the most wonderful things about Paris to me is having a stellar dining experience in some small, intimate place with no major price tag where you leave feeling like some French family just cooked especially for you.

You dont know what I mean by Champs Elysees money? I mean extremely expensive. I realize that Taillevent is extremely expensive but I am a huge foodie and feel like I can handle the 70 euro per person price tag for lunch because it is rated the best restaurant in Paris by Zagats. You say you could never absorb that many high end meals? In my estimation there are only a few that I have listed. The rest seem pretty average when comparing the average cost of other restaurants. Right? I mean this is my honeymoon and can only do this once. We are both big foodies. I am pretty sure that with all the walking we will be able to burn off a lot of the calories and be ready to eat again and may as well eat somewhere we are going to really like rather than somewhere we will regret. I mean, thinking that you may be pissed about the meal when you could have just spent 50 dollars more and been very pleased. I just want to know if I am on the right path.

I know I just replied a minute ago but I was reading St Cirq's response and was thinking, "Didnt I mention a few places that were bistros/brasseries or cafes?" Isn't Cafe Constant a bistro? What about Chez Clovis and Chez Denise? Arent those bistros? I named a variety of restaurants to try to get a well-rounded experience of Parisian restaurants. I have also left out a few days for lunch and dinner so that I can stumble upon a place or two. Am I going about this wrong?

No, I don't know what Champs Elysées money is because to me the Champs Elysées is just a long, ugly street with American chain stores on it - not attractive, not typically Parisian, in a neighborhood I'm not remotely interested in.

I don't know if you're "on the right path or not." I'm guessing you are new to Paris and young with a lot of money to throw around and want to impress your wife. For example, I'd never stay at that hotel for my honeymoon in Paris unless I'd never been to Paris before and was thinking I was doing something impressive and expensive (but really had no clue about what Paris hotels were all about). Whether that's the "right path" or not is not for me to say. What I'm suggesting is, if you stop focusing on how many $$$ you're spending and maybe get a bit more in tune with what Paris is all about, you'd end up having a better, more authentic (and not so "impressive") experience.

Or not.

Yes, Café Constant is a bistro, but a VERY expensive one (as it should be, as Christian Constant is a Michelin-starred chef...and a wonderful one at that). Just suggesting that it seems you are out to impress, but part of the charm of Paris is knowing the places that aren't places Americans can tick off on Places I Ate In Paris (aren't we cool?) but rather places like Florimond and La Fontaine de Mars, where you can eat amazing food at fairly reasonable prices.

St Cirq, you have 100% misjudged me. I am staying at that hotel because my parents own a timeshare and I was given a free week at that hotel. I do not have a lot of money to throw around and "impress my new wife". I work at the Harley Davidson store selling motorcycles in Kentucky. Does that sound like the makings of a young millionaire to you?
I have actaully been to Paris twice when I was in high school with the EF tour program but you are right, I probably dont know what Paris hotels are all about.
I want to experience this town on my own and have made the deductions on restaurants based upon this website and chowhound.com, as well as other books. They sound like places I would like to visit but I dont know if I am making a mistake or not. I do not care about spending more money than I have on eating well and enjoying myself becuase this is not something I do very often (honeymoon that is).
I think I could deduce a bit about you and I think it would be much more accurate than how you have portrayed me.
Why make such comments when you dont know me? And of course you know what the hell Champs Elysees money is. It is the more expensive part of town where the rich and famous hang out. I am not saying I fit in there but if your lodging was free, you can honestly say that you would turn it down for a tiny bedroom with no closet and a bathroom that your cant stretch your arms out in because you wouldn't lower yourself to stay in an American hotel in Paris? You should get over yourself.

A Paris honeymoon is great! You'll find a wealth of restaurant recommendations everywhere, including Fodors.com. The search engine is a bit clumsy, but there are plenty of recommendations. Also, check out http://tinyurl.com/292tb5
which has lots of links.

My own foodie experience suggests that Zagat's is much less reliable than Michelin and Gault or even Great Eats in Paris, by the way.

No, I wouldn't turn down a free hotel in Paris in any location. Fine, good for you, enjoy it!

But you seem hell-bent on spending beaucoup bucks on high-end restaurants in Paris, when you don't have to, is all.

And the comment about not being able to stretch your arms out in a Paris hotel room without staying in an American hotel is telling, too. Clearly, you don't know much about hotel rooms in Paris.

I was actually trying to help you out by pointing out that you didn't need to spend a small fortune to eat well in Paris, but apparently it's fallen on deaf and defensive ears, so I'll stop now with the suggestions.

Review of Cafe Constant in Zagat's-- please read. "When you arent up to the big stars, chef-owner Christian Constant's cozy second restaurant makes a nice substitute for its posh parent. No reservations, but it is worth the wait for classic (if not classy) bistro food prepared with love at PRICES AMONG THE MOST REASONABLE IN THE WHOLE 7th. The decors old...."
Average dinner with a drink and tip per person= 37 euro. Prix fixe not noted.

Your suggestion: Le Fontaine de Mars,
same book.
"...the cuisine is equally classic, with copius servings of fine Southwestern eats (foie gras as large as my fists); the waiters are professional and while prices may STRIKE YOU AS STEEP for the food of grand-mere, you will feel like family here"
Average price with a drink and tip: 47 euros per person. Now what recommendation would you give for the money?? Yours sounds great but weren't you chastising me for picking a restaurant such as the one you just named? Very hypocritical St.

You werent trying to help. You were trying to belittle me and make the choice of hotel and area seem like a horrendous one. You are really accusatory and honestly, you sound like a very jealous person. Maybe you are angry because life has dealt you some bad cards and you have been forced to "rough it" and you feel like you are so much better off than others who haven't because we have been "fortunate" enough to have found the little gems you stumble upon by staying in the offbeat places. Look, if I would have been paying, I would have been staying at an 80 to 90 euro place a night. As luck has it, my parents were kind enough to give me a hotel room for a week that costs around 600 euros a night. Dont hate me for that.

I'm sorry..I'm just having a good chuckle at the thought of St Cirq "roughing it"...

I sincerely doubt I was jealous. I own a house in France and live there part of the year and have done so for the past 17 years. Nothing to be jealous about, honey. And when I stay in Paris, I stay with friends or at the two hotels I've come to love and enjoy over more than 20 years of visits, one of them under 80 euro a night for a double, the other about 120 euro a night for same.
I haven't ever had to "rough" it, but after so many years of travel to France (73rd trip to Paris coming up in October), I thought maybe I could offer you some tips about dining that wouldn't empty your pocketbook.
And as I pointed out, you're lucky to have a timeshare in Paris, and one that, according to your apparently limited experience, has more room than a normal Parisian hotel room.
I don't "hate you" for anything. I just think you're kind of clueless and want to impress and are more fixated on the wanting to impress factor than the good food/good ambience factor.

But what do I know? I've only been traveling to France since 1973, own a house there, live there part of the year, give tours there, speak the language, yadayadayada....don't think anything is going to change your perspective, so good night. Was just trying to help, and save you some money...is all.

Travelnut: Yes, I was having the same thought, though I suppose I have been "roughing it" at my house on a few occasions when we had big rains and the first floor was flooded.

I'm actually a fairly good "rough it" person. Can don hiking boots and all and rough it up with the best of them and refinish furniture and gut a garage and get into the bowels of a car. Can also get all elegant for a lovely dinner in Paris in high heels and silk. A real chameleon...

well, I can't really participate here for naughtyb because I'm not a foodie... I can't fathom actually making it to all 11 restaurants cited in an 8-day stretch, but it's a fine line-up no doubt. Perhaps he was hoping for some comments to help prioritize the list.

I imagine nearly all of them would be best to reserve, but how far in advance? Would a day or two, after he's arrived, suffice? Or reserve some prior to leaving home? I guess any that are 'starred' should be reserved prior to leaving on the honeymoon.

Another thought - if the honeymoon actually immediately follows the wedding, the bride might like a night off, relax and not have to 'dress' for dinner. Maybe an evening picnic or a room picnic (gourmet goodies, champagne, etc). It could be fun to shop at a couple of upscale traiteurs (right word?) for the treats.

ok, G'night, St Cirq, hope the creek don't rise.. :)

Let me offer another foodie perspective. I can understand the feeling of "I only have 12 meals (or whatever) in Paris, and I can't bear the thought of "wasting" a meal." I go through that angst on every vacation, including those to Paris! I can't offer much specific advice on your restaurant ideas so far because I haven't been to any of them except Taillevent, though I've considered eating at a number of them.

While you do have a number of cafes on your list, I think they're more (i.e. Cafe Constant) on the upscale bistro/cafe side. So even though they might be called cafes, your experience at them might be more like a somewhat formal restaurant. And it sounds like you're trying to balance out that type of place against a more casual type. (Eating a wonderful, lengthy somewhat-fancy meal day after day can get tiring, I'm sorry to have to admit.)

I've found that, while DH and I love food and love to eat, that we can't eat a big meal more than once each day. You may alrady know that about yourselves, too, and it does look like you're trying to space out those big meals. But also try to pick out some places that are less well-known (which also might be less pricy, but that's not the point) and less of a big event. You'll get a different, but just as good, feel for Paris that way. For example, on our last trip to Paris, in May, for our Sunday night dinner (sounds like you've done enough research to know that many Paris restaurants are closed Sun. night) I came up with a charming little place in the south part of the 6th arrondisement (south of the Luxembourg Gardens). It was walking distance from our hotel, and felt very local to me. If you want to check it out, the restaurant was Le Parc aux Cerfs. It's definitely not the kind of place you'd stumble on, just because it's not an area that you (or I) would be walking through otherwise. The food was very good, and the experience was charming, even though its not on the same tier as Fish or Le Comptoir, etc. I think that's the kind of place that StCirq was suggesting that you include in your list.

Based on what I know about restaurants that I haven't been to, Reminet has new owners, and as of May, right before our trip to Paris, I hadn't seen anything (positive or negative) about the place under the new owners.

I don't remember where, exactly, in the 7th Le Clos du Gourmets is, but I don't think it's close enough to your hotel to walk. You could probably get there and back just fine on the Metro. Fish on Saturday would be fun, because the 6th arr. on the weekends, especially on the streets near Fish, is a VERY lively place - you'll like that. I would suggest to go to the 6th early and have drinks at a cafe in the area, on Rue de Buci or thereabouts. Or if you're picky about your wine (like my DH), go to l'Ecluse, right on the Seine.

On reserving before you go, keep in mind that I'm a little overly organized about planning our meals, and my darling DH has a totally irrational fear that - gasp - we'll have NOWHERE to eat (in Paris? time to stop laughing). So I reserve most of our dinners in advance, and definitely reserve any place that I know we want to eat at. And with those I don't, I'm inclined to have a "short list" of restaurants and check them out beforehand, and reserve them earlier in the day or the day before. (I don't reserve lunches, though I go armed with a list of possibilities for wherever we are at lunchtime.)

In addition to chowhound, look at egullet, anther very good foodie website that will keep you going for HOURS on checking out restaurants. Their Paris board is very active and organized. As compared to chowhound, I would say egulleteers are more focused on the high-end experience.

I have only eaten at L'Ami Jean, Le Reminet, and Chez Denise from your list. L'Ami Jean seems to be on "everyone's" list these days, even more popular with Americans since the laudatory article on Chef Jego in the New York Times Magazine and coverage in Food & Wine and other US publications. I would reserve there before you leave. It is not at all fancy, rather rough-and-tumble in a positive way. Our meal last fall was wonderful.

I have read one negative review of Le Reminet under new ownership, on Chowhound. I thought it was a nice little bistro, with many tourists.

Hi

My wife and I went to Paris last year. If this is your first visit to Paris you might find some useful info in my trip report with pictures, links, maps etc. You can find the trip report on my homepage http://gardkarlsen.com/Paris_France.htm . I have also written a bit about the places that we went to eat. Have a great trip :d

Regards
Gard
http://gardkarlsen.com - trip reports and pictures

Although I think the chances of persuading you any differently are quite slim, I agree with Lexma and St Cirq (who, in my opinion, is a person whose thoughts are worth listening to). Many of us have done what you are attempting for your first trip to Paris. You need real variety in the type of food and the type of restaurants.
Now we look for the type of restaurant that Parisians eat in. If you scan the posts you will discover places that don't get shared in some of the gourmet sites but can be the best meals in Paris. Posters don't always share these indiscriminately (if you know what I mean).

To be fair, I think there is quite a variety of ambience and style of cuisine between the places listed by the OP...at least there is between the three I am familiar with...

I do know the feeling of so many meals, so little time! Just don't eat more than one pain au chocolat at breakfast!

Naughtyb: Here is my trip report from last fall with brief descriptions of meals at: Chez Denise, L'Ami Jean, and Le Reminet. You have to scroll down past the Basque country and the Dordogne to get to the Paris part of the report:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34894706

eks - I re-read your report on Le Reminet. Interesting because we visited Le Reminet May of 2005 and May of 2006 and we noticed a change in one year - hardly definite data but interesting. It has become much more "discovered" and we were less impressed with the food. Still a place to go on Sunday but we will move on.

...and Le Reminet changed ownership last fall, according to what I read...I think part of the reason it is so popular is that it is open Sundays and is in a neighborhood well trod by tourists. I think the best advice one can give a new visitor is to get away from these areas at least for a couple of meals..

I think it might be useful to distinguish between visitors to these sites who want to benefit from the experiences of others and those who seem to have other agendas.

For the latter, let's be glad there are still many visitors to Paris who want to dine at the high-end and/or touristy and/or well-known restaurants--leave them undisturbed so the rest of us will still have access to the neighborhood and local-favorite ones.

Naughtyb,
I think your restaurant picks are great ones.

You asked about closeness of the first night's pick....I would guess a 15 minute taxi ride tops, but I'm not sure where on the Champs the Marriott is located. We have actually walked from the Champs to the 7th on occasion.

About reservations: don't wait until you get there to reserve Taillevent & Violin d"ingres. They're very popular and fill up fast. (Coat & tie required at Taillevent for sure, suggested at V.d'I.)

I love the Comptoir. Did you know it's basically 2 different restaurants? Lunch throughout the week and dinner on the weekends it is a brasserie with no reservations and you order off the menu.

Weeknights it's a prix fixt gourmet treat with a set menu that changes daily(a bargain at around 45 euros). Reservations are next to impossible to get unless you're staying at the adjacent hotel. Just didn't want you to be disappointed.

You might want to try to reserve Fish in advance too. I always wanted to try it but never could fit it in.

One word about the Champs prices: There are so many places to eat along that strip that are not expensive. Seafood, Italian, bistros. Just start walking along and you'll see what I mean. Shopping is well, another story.

I can't help you with Montmarte. The one time we went there we were not inclined to linger very long. I guess we're not very adventursome.

You've done your homework it looks like to me. You'll do great! Good luck.

We had a very nice dinner at a new restaurant in the Marais district of Paris. It has taken over in the location of Le Petit Phamphlet which is now closed.
The new owners as a husband and wife team, the husband has been a chef at other big Paris restaurants and his wife has left her finance job to help him run the restaurant.
It is called Le Carre des Vosges and is located at 15 rue St. Giles 75003 Paris
01 04 71 22 21.
Its a nice setting, trendy but relaxed. The food was excellent and a very nice wine list.
We enjoyed it there.

I just checked the map and you can see from here that you're just a hop skip & a jump from Le Clos du Gourmets.

http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguid...ets_le_paris-i

Your hotel is number 6, the one with the star is the restaurant. We usually stay on the left bank, but you're in a super spot to hop on the FDR metro or walk down the ave Montaigne and cross the river.

Chez Denise and Chez Clovis are so far from the typical "high-end" Parisian tourist traps! At lunchtime at CD the dining room was packed with locals who appeared to have great appreciation for wonderful, unadorned classics in what some might call a down-home setting.
The crowd at Chez Clovis also looked like workers from nearby businesses along with a coterie of trenchermen who looked left over from the days of Les Halles. The atmosphere at L'Ami Jean is even more downscale; the place was a Basque tavern in its previous incarnation. Again, most of the diners I shared the room with did not appear to be tourists, although I suspect that may have changed due to the rash of press recently, but then again, I was too busy looking at what was on my plate!

Another similar post here makes me post the same thought I expressed there.
For those discussing being surrounded by other tourists or dining with locals, much of the answer lies in the time. When people say you must arrive early as it is packed by 8 or whatever, please realize that you probably WILL be surrounded with tourists. At least in the summer, most locals wouldn't think of heading out to dine before 9 or later. That gives all the tourists plenty of time to finish their meals and leave making room for the locals.
We tend to be late diners, and we have eaten at many places totally surrounded by locals that others say is all tourists. I suspect the main difference is that we were there at 9:30 or 10:00, while they were there a couple hours earlier.

Hi Neo - where are you now?
Your point is well taken.
Some of these places, however, do become over publicized and trendy. Our visits to Le Reminet (one to reserve and one for dinner at 9:45) plus a conversation with the owner confirmed our suspicion.
Places like that do only one sitting.

Does anyone who has eaten at Chez Denise recenty remember if gateau de foie de volaille is still on the menu? (Tell me yes, and I will have to book a flight ASAP.) I have eaten there only twice, but will ever forget this spectacular appetizer. It seems that the menu doesn't change often (if ever, aside from daily specials?).

Likewise, anyone know if Chez Clovis still serves stuffed goose neck? (Can't remember the French name --- cou farci perhaps)

There are perhaps a half dozen posters on the Paris restaurant scene that are worth heeding. St. Cirq is one. John Talbott writes often as well. Most of us who have spent a lot of time in France and Paris tend to avoid the starred restaurants because much of what you are paying for is ambiance etc. Clos des Gourmets represents the "sweet spot" in Paris dining. No star, because the staff is limited to the bare minimum. But the food is superb! Close by is Vin sur Vin, a one star that is excellent, yet not frequented by the Zagat crowd.

robjame, in Amsterdam now. Will arrive in Paris next Tuesday (my birthdday) for 10 days.

I'm still sort of chucking that the original poster makes a point of saying they don't have "Champs Elysees money" but I'm trying to think how many places on the Champs compares to the higher prices of much of the planned list. Is there some notion that Champs Elysees is the most expensive area of Paris -- particularly for dining? How many "bargain" $90 lunches per person BEFORE wine are typical on the Champs Elysees, for example?

The Champs Elysee has sort of a long held but outdated reputation as being "tres cher". I figured that was the case with the OP, having just heard a nationally recognized newscaster say something to the effect, "Well, if I could afford to wine & dine on the Champs Elysees I wouldn't be up at 5 A.M. to interview you."

Funny how those illusions stick around.

So are you guys saying that the 8th's dining scene is not the most expensive any more? Seems as if there are many expensive places around such as Guy Savoy and Taillvent to name two!

Also, I want to reply to a few posters. First of all, I never said St C doesnt know what he/she is talking about. I just loathe the accusatory tone taken by him/her. I despise when people act as if my intentions are anything besides trying to enjoy great meals and have a great time. St C is WAY OFF BASE and completely out of line with his/her comments toward and about me. There is absolutely no one that I am trying to "impress". Nobody that I know would care or have any inkling about any restaurants in Paris and my fiance and I are planning this trip together so who am I trying to impress? Certainly not anyone on this site.
Robjame-- I dont know why you would say that "the chances of persuading me any are quite slim". I am more than open to any suggestions you may have. After all, that is why I came to this site with people who are informed, such as yourself.
Thanks so much to Lexma, Linda431, and ekscrunchy for all the assistance. I really appreciate it.
d_claude_bear---- I hope your comment wasn't directed towards me. If I wasn't interested in the opinions of others, why would I ask? I want a myriad of Parisian experiences and I thought I made a decent opening list with varying types of French restaurants that I will most assuredly revise after a few comments. i.e. Le Reminet makes me a little nervous now with new owners and not much info on the restaurant itself. If your response was directed towards me, it is people with responses such as yours that taint an otherwise enjoyable website.