paris apartment opinion airbnb
 

Hello

Looking for an apartment in Paris for family of four (2 children 11 and 8) for june next year. Wondering if anyone has stayed in the one below or has an opinion on this one and its location. Have never rented an apartment before so not sure about airbnb - have read a few threads on the forums which is how i got the name. Want an apartment in a central location within walking distance of many Paris attractions such as Louvre, Notre Dame, and easy to get to Eiffel Tower and Eurostar.

https://www.airbnb.com.au/rooms/904689

thanks

This apt looks awfully small - there is a tiny cafe table with 2 chairs and 2 tiny benches (which look too large for the table). They say 2nd floor (which is 3rd floor US - no elevator) and there is no AC.

It looks awfully small for 4 people.

I would ask the owner for more photos of the apt - including the bedroom divided into 2 (can you still walk around the bed). And there is no photo of the bath.

No photo of the kitchen either. And only a washing machine, no dryer? Unless it's a combo washer-dryer.

The location is good for your needs. Though a bit busy for my taste. What time of year will you be in Paris? How long will you be staying there?

You may want to make sure what you rent is a legal rental. Or you may not care who you do business with.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...-is-legal.html

Nowhere is within reasonable walking distance of all the attractions. You are bound to use public transport at some point, so you might as well embrace it and look further afield. This sounds like it's in a business-oriented area, which wouldn't be my choice.

I think it is obviously small, but so is the price. So that's what you can get in Paris for such a low price, doesn't surprise me. The location is good, I think it's fine for that rate, but of course it's not large.

Many many Paris apts only have washers and not dryers, actually. They aren't good for much but underwear, etc., stuff you can hang to dry. Depends how long you will be there as to whether that matters. You don't even say how long you will be there, if less than a week, I wouldn't think you'd need to be washing tons of clothes, anyway. I never wash any in a week except stuff by hand.

Yes it is small but it is certainly larger than the same money would get in a hotel. The location could not be more central. Not my favorite area but for a first timer it would be in the middle of things. And the owner seems very responsive (see all the comments re the reviews and he lives nearby)

Lots of reviews so it is obviously legit.

I do wish there were more photos - especially of the bathroom (you can see a glimpse of the shower stall in the bedroom photo)

You could certainly do worse. As long as you don't expect spacious and climbing two flights of stairs isn't a problem, it looks fine to me.

Reviews don't establish whether an apartment is "legit" in Paris. The laws of Paris determine that and whether or not those laws are enforced. Airbnb apartmetns are a major target of a crackdown against short term rentals in Paris. The landlord should be able to supply you with written proof this apartment (or any Airbnb apartment or short term rental is not in violation of the law.

The issue is not really whether you are willing to rent illegally. The issue is whether between now and the time you get on a plane the apartment you believed you had rented is suddenly yanked off the market under threat of legal action by authorities. For some of the larger rental agencies that manage many properties in Paris there is often a back up of them being able to offer you a substitute vacant apartment. (But even there you should get written guarantees and proof of a legal rental.) But Airbnb "hosts" usually can't offer you anything except your money back.

The law is being challenged and may be changed. But you need to know exactly what it is and why AirBnb for Paris is a questionable way to secure lodgings for your family vacation.

I didn't mean legal 'legit', I meant it really exists and is as depicted.

I think it looks fine. And I like the location.

The OP should follow sandra's advice - especially for an apartment booked that far in advance. I wouldn't touch anything being rented through AirBnB in Paris. If you do, you'd better have a backup plan for another place to stay - you might well need it.

Anybody travelling with children or the elderly should realize that these apartments are not regulated, so are not required to meet basic sanitation or safety codes - most of them don't even come close, especially with wiring and plumbing. There's probably a reason there's no photo of the toilet - it could be one of those annoying "sanibroyeurs". No smoke detectors, no fire exits...chances are good that you wouldn't stay in a similar place in your hometown.

You might look at hotels with kitchenettes and laundry facilities - but as someone mentioned, washers and dryers in Paris leave a lot to be desired, and are not the convenience you are used to. I would have another look at your budget, adjust where you can, and look for a hotel.

As far as budget goes, if you will be taking public transportation anyway, you should be looking for hotels in the less-popular arrondissements. They are just as safe, often more interesting, and always less expensive - you could get a much better deal, in return for 10 mins or so extra time spent on the Metro.

Well there is no air conditioning.. so you will likely want to leave the windows oopen at night.. but guess what.. there is a "late night" ( by ads own words) pizza place below it.. could be a noise issue.

I would keep looking. Location ( neighborhood) is fine, but the one bed for you and wife/hubby is just two beds pushed together.. ..( ok for me I would not like that )

Also as noted.. 2nd floor is not one level up but two.. so kids may not enjoy lugging suitcases up those stairs.. after a full day of sightseeing.

Personally the fact that she asks people to be polite to her neihbors makes me nervous too.. it means there may have been issues and she is trying to keep the peace. Renting an apartment like this is actually not legal.. but has been tolerated for many years with no enforcement.. but recently they have stepped up enforcement.. and neighbors are the ones ratting out the illegal apartments.. so...

Hi everyone and thank you all for your input.

To answer your questions we will be in Paris friday 19th June (lunch time) to tuesday 23rd june late morning. Unfortunately not a long time but thats all we could fit in. I have looked at lots of hotels but accommodation for 4 seems to be an issue and i thought an apartment might be a better option - handy to have a kitchen for the kids. We won't be in the apartment or hotel for long as we would like to make the most of the limited time we have so it probably isn't a deal breaker if the place is small as long as we all have somewhere to sleep and room for luggage.

i didn't realise that some apartments on this website might not be legit - any other suggestions would be appreciated. How long in advance would you recommend booking? In terms of budget I was hoping for $1000 Australian dollars equivalent but from what i have seen we may need to increase this.

I had a look at a previous thread about hotel accommodation for quad share but when i went to the websites many were triples only. Any other suggestions would be most welcome.

Thanks

http://www.adagio-city.com/gb/hotel-...wer/room.shtml
They have many different locations and options. I would just be afraid of using airbnb in a large city this far out. I use them but in places that aren't fighting to make them illegal to use. There are many legit places that rent for example:
http://www.vacationinparis.com/search-results

Or just Homeaway.com. We used them when we were in Paris and got a great apartment. We were in the 2nd (much less expensive) and from there you can walk just about everywhere.

Oh, and you can read our trip report here: http://rovingrichards.com/travel/france-2012/ Our girls were 9 and 11 for that trip.

Hi MonicaRichards - just read your trip report. Sounds like you had a fabulous holiday! This is our first trip to Europe so it has been fun planning it all with the help of this forum!

http://www.vacationinparis.com/ is a fine outfit. The apartments can be sorted by location, # of bedrooms, # of beds, price, etc. Bonus: they mail you the keys before you leave home so you can move right in upon arrival regardless of time of day/night.

emmamarie..lucky you .. you will be in Paris for June 21st when they have the Fete de la Music ... street performers and bands performing all over the city ... it will be a fun evening!

Most vacation apartments in Paris are probably not "legit" that are advertised on these type of websites where owners are doing it themself. VRBO is the first/biggest one that people tend to know, but there are plenty of others. Homeaway (which I think is affiliated with VRBO), Airbnb which does the same thing although I think they have a little more financial protection, etc. It is hard to find vacation rentals that will rent for only four nights, to begin with, which is what you want.

I don't know how you can rent out such apts in Paris that are legal, but I think you have to get authority to do so from the government and something about how you have to also have standard rentals of the same size (which rules out people renting one apt they own). I don't know how someone above can say that Vacationinparis is legit or how they know that, perhaps they can explain (if so, that's a good choice). They use apts with private owners just like those on Airbnb, they don't own the places. Maybe they are legit if all their apartments meet all the necessary criteria, but I don't see that their website makes any statements about that.

I don't think AC is a must-have in June, it might be desirable if it is the end of June, rather than the beginning. Two flights up isn't much, I've rented several apts like that (without elevator), and I'm no kid, if people can't walk up and down a few flights of stairs, something is wrong (unless you do have physical disabilitis, of course), including with simple luggage, which is all you should have. There isn't any reason you'd be lugging suitcases up stairs after a day of sightseeing as someone said, you do it once upon arrival.

But the all-night pizza place below would bother me, that's for sure.

Also, you must be aware that when you rent vacation apts, you usually cannot enter until the afternoon. I've had ones where I could enter at noon, but I've also seen many that won't let you in until 2-4 pm in the afternoon.

The problem is your budget is somewhat low for Paris at peak season rates to get a place for four people. 1000 AUD is 700 euro and for 4 nights that only 175 euro a night. That would be fine for a double hotel room, but is low for a quad room in June. But I think you may be able to find something close to that rate in the Adagio aparthotel chain (or www.citadines.com). The advantage of those places is there are no huge nonrefundable payments nor security deposits, like you will have with apartments.

If I had to bet on legality, I think most Parisian vacation apts are not legal but the owner would be fined, not the tenant. The worry is it not being available--I'd probably think the govt cracking down on public agencies like Vacationinparis less likely than the indiviaul owner websites liek Airbnb and VRBO, but I'm guessing.

To get back to the question of how far in advance to book an apartment, for a moment...
This has become very tricky. Yes, 90+% of vacation rentals are illegal, but people are still renting them (on both sides of the equation) - both seem willing to take the chance and pay the consequences, if need be.

Does this mean you should rent an apartment? If you are a flexible traveller, who would not mind at all if the property and amenities you paid for were suddenly not available, if you wouldn't mind staying in another apartment and location not of your choosing and probably not up to your standards, if you are willing to chalk all this up to experience for the sake of stretching your budget - then go ahead. Just don't say you weren't warned.

The better apartments - the ones everyone dreams of staying in, expensive or not-so-much - are booked at least a year in advance. The rest of the stuff is available for a reason, and usually a good one - nobody else wanted it, for one reason or another. So, if you don't rent far in advance, you won't have many good choices.

On the other hand, renting a year in advance during the current situation will not guarantee that your apartment will be available when you arrive. Even though the Mayor's task force is investigating slowly, neighbors are busily reporting illegal rentals to the authorities. You may be told that there was "a sudden plumbing problem", but it's likely that the apartment was pulled to avoid confrontation with the homeowner's association. AirBnB is one of the companies to avoid, since most of the rentals are unauthorized sublets. When the owner discovers illegal rentals in his property, not only can the tenant be evicted, but you could be, too.

Who should you rent from, assuming you still want to? Rental agencies that have been in business for a long time cannot guarantee that your apartment is legal or will be available - however, they will probably work hard to find another place that would come close. Signing a phony 1-yr lease that is torn up at the end of your stay is no protection, and is illegal. An independent owner, or a small agency, would very likely not have many properties to offer - if at all. You could very well find yourself in Paris with a refund and an apology, but with no place to stay.

Since the apartment craze exploded about 5 years ago, it seems that many people think they must rent an apartment for an "authentic" stay in Paris. But many people don't realize that other options exist. Many hotels are affordable (and family rooms are available), many have refrigerators, guests are usually allowed to eat in their rooms if they're considerate and neat about it, and staff will always accommodate your needs, especially with a little advance notice.

It's a lot easier to search for and book a hotel, than to deal with the due diligence it takes to find an apartment that will be there when you arrive. If I were travelling with children, I would go for the sure thing, and choose to stay in a hotel. If you search in the slightly less-popular arrondissements - 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 17 - you will add only about 10 mins of Metro time, but will find significantly lower prices, as well as much more choice. There are more family rooms available in these locations, too, since the buildings haven't been carved up, as they have in the city center. There are the usual markets, shops, restaurants, etc and these areas are just as safe as the more popular tourist areas.

Many people rent apartments in Paris one time. When asked how they enjoyed their stay, the common response is, "Well, there were problems, and it wasn't what we expected, but we made the best of things. At least it was cheap." When asked if they would rent next trip, most say they would not. Just make sure you are making an informed decision.

I stayed in this one in August and can verify that it exists and looks just like the pictures. It does cost more than your choice but it has 2 bedrooms and is a "normal" apartment with 3 rooms plus a real bathroom. Your choice is really one room with a divider that pulls across and who knows what the toilet looks like. I can't imagine how the childern will use the loo in the night.

http://www.vrbo.com/192356

Frankly, AC and a dryer are not realistic options for affordable Paris apartments.

Thanks everyone -you have given me a lot to think about. I really appreciate the time you all took to make your comments. I am going to keep looking at options and might start looking at hotels again.

I wish posters would stop moaning about the lack of dryers. They are very rare in Europe because energy costs are so high. Hang out your clothes like everyone here does.

As you say, Tarquin. I suppose that many North Americans do not actually know how to hang out clothes to dry, sad to say. Dryers are so ubiquitous that many neighborhood associations have rule prohibiting hanging clothing outside on lines because they are "unsightly".

Do any of you old codgers recall how wonderfully fresh a bed sheet, dried in the sunshine and wind and just off the line, smells?

It's silly to assume that homeaway.com apartments are any more legal than are AirBnB apartments.

Also, many people stay in apartments because they are cheaper and more convenient than are hotels, and not because they are looking for an authentic experience.

My idea of an authentic Parisian experience would be a suite at the Georges Cinq. However, my budget leaves me to repeated apartment rentals through agencies like Vacation in Paris and RentParis.com. RentParis.com has somewhat lower prices and may be of interest to you.

I'm an American, and I might guess that just as many people would be disappointed in a budget hotel room in Paris as would be those disappointed in a budget apartment.

The OP sounds well prepared for any inconveniences that travel on a budget might involve, and I think you'll do fine.

The search engine here at Fodors Forums isn't great, but there are Paris Apartment threads that can be helpful to you.

Here's the big one:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ent-thread.cfm

Actually, the reason we stay at an apartment is simply for the space. We like different rooms so on a long vacation we can get a break from each other. And being able to make breakfast on my schedule is pretty cool too--my husband sleeps two hours a day longer than I do, and when we're in a hotel expects me to wait for him to go to breakfast...for two hours! We stayed in a hotel for two days on our last vacation and guess how many fights we had over whether it was rude for me to go to breakfast without him--that's right, two!

Yes, tarquin, most Americans are so used to using dryers -- they are used to doing 3 to 4 loads of laundry on "laundry day" and do the wash, dry, and fold all on one day.

When you hang clothes to dry, it normally takes about 24 hours for them to dry, so you need multiple racks plus all the room for all those racks if you want to do multiple loads.

nukesafe, since we're talking the city here, there's little chance the drying racks will be outside to get that wonderful sunshine smell. Most likely, folks will have to cram the drying racks into a side of the hallway or an edge of the bathroom, etc.

s

No, swandav, I realize the thread is talking about drying things in apartments, not the suburbs, but what I was getting at is that many North Americans with dryers are not even familiar with the process of drying stuff au natural, any more. For example, we were with another couple on a canal boat a few years back when one lady wanted to wash out her only pair of jeans. She insisted that they would be dry by the morning; just drape them over the railing, she said, and she could wear them the next day. She had to wear her good slacks for two days until the she could put the still slightly damp things on.

If you intend to do laundry in Paris, particularly if it is humid, be sure to bring things that dry quickly, be prepared to find a laundromat, or wear damp undies.

Emmamarie - I looked at the link for the apt. again. If the couch is the same as mine (looks like it), when it is pulled put to make a bed, it is really huge and takes up most of the space in the room. Unless your two children are small enough that you don't have to open it.
And I do agree that it is better to be certain that the apt. Is legal.
I have never seen a dryer in a rental.

Why is the assumption always that it is a hotel room or an apartment? Has no one heard of Aparthotels? They can be found in most major cities with Paris certainly being one of those.

https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...is+aparthotels

Let's be honest about why people use Airbnb, it isn't for more space, it's because they are cheaper than hotels. Let's also be honest about why some people don't care if the rental is illegal or not, it's called selfish.

I can understand a family who have to rent 2 rooms while a couple need only 1, looking to find somewhere on a budget they can afford. But the assumption is that they CAN afford it. There is no RIGHT to be able to visit Paris or anywhere else.

If you can't afford the cost of staying there legally, then looking at something illegal as a way to make it possible doesn't become OK. That is called situational ethics. Someone who would not knowingly break the law in general, decides it is OK to rent an illegal rental in this case.

Emmamarie, besides hotels you can look at aparthotels as I mentioned and you can also look at actual B&Bs. The name Airbnb is misleading in that it originally referred to an Airbed and breakfast. That was the original concept, that someone would rent out a place to sleep in their home in situations like a major event where hotels were all booked and someone couldn't find a place to stay.

Unfortunately, exploiters jumped in seeing a way to make money and started renting an apartment and then subletting it to the travel for profit. Actual B&Bs (there are some on Airbnb) are not illegal anywhere that I am aware of. But that means the owner LIVES in the property.

Look at some of the sites here for actual B&Bs. If it says it is an 'unhosted' apartment it is not a B&B. It isn't hard to tell which is which.
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...q=paris+b%26bs

Look at Chambre d'hotes (bed and breakfast) or Gites (self-catering accomodation). Read here to see what is required for a property to be listed as either.
http://paris.angloinfo.com/informati...unning-a-gite/

They are legal rentals. Illegal rentals don't hang a sign outside indicating a 'Chambre d'hote'.
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/med...s-oliviers.jpg

I lump apartment hotels in w/ apartments/flats . . . More space.

>>Let's be honest about why people use Airbnb, it isn't for more space, it's because they are cheaper than hotels.<<

That isn't why I book flats/apartments. Yes, generally most flats will be cheaper than the equivalent hotel rooms. But I book flats even when it costs more. The extra space, the kitchen/kitchenette, the washer or washer/dryer unit.

Nothing to d w/ cost for me, everything to do w/ comfort.

Whenever I'm in a city more than 3 nights a flat is my first choice

This is an interesting website, which lists the B&Bs that are listed with and approved by the City of Paris. www.hotesqualiteparis.fr To qualify, they must meet several criteria set by the city, including privacy, sanitation, paying taxes, and hosts must live on the premises and be willing and able to treat their guests like family. Some of the properties will allow light cooking (microwave, coffee/tea) and fridge privileges, especially if kids are involved.

There is a great myth about apartments being "spacious" - only the good ones are, and they are always taken. Not all hotel rooms are small, either.

>>Let's be honest about why people use Airbnb, it isn't for more space, it's because they are cheaper than hotels.<<

I don't think vacation rental lovers are dishonest at all. The word has been out for a very long time. In spite of the risks, we love the additional space and the substantial savings on the equivalent hotel space. We also love, and have tremendous respect for the experience of living like a local. We also love the ability to eat our meals in, often at a kitchen or dining room table, at more affordable per-night prices.

Airbnb is very new at this game, and with their service fee, it isn't always the cheapest choice. Holiday Rentals and VRBO have been around for decades, serving exactly the same customer. One could argue there's less risk with Airbnb, given their structure, software, and review process.

>>Let's also be honest about why some people don't care if the rental is illegal or not, it's called selfish.<<

Much like those who enjoy smoking marijuana or double parking for 5 minutes where it is illegal, if a service or convenience saves us money and delivers the pleasure and opportunity we seek, perhaps old laws will one day change in our favor. As long as we're being truly honest, whom do the rental laws mostly protect? While you sort out that answer, I don't mind being called selfish if my vacation turns out great and I saved several hundred dollars to put towards the next one.

>>But the assumption is that they CAN afford it. There is no RIGHT to be able to visit Paris or anywhere else.<<

So only the elites should be able to visit and enjoy the heart of Paris? Middle class travelers must stay on the outskirts? Classism is alive and well in these vacation rental discussions.

>>If you can't afford the cost of staying there legally, then looking at something illegal as a way to make it possible doesn't become OK. That is called situational ethics.<<

Renting an apartment for a two week visit to Paris isn't murder or a Ponzi scheme. Is the "elites only" example ethical? I'm trying to plan an affordable once-in-a-lifetime vacation. Do I really need to test and judge the ethics of others? Do I really need to study and interpret local laws in black and white, and honor them, when the owner who's renting to me for two weeks only sees the color of money?

>>If you are a flexible traveller, who would not mind at all if the property and amenities you paid for were suddenly not available, if you wouldn't mind staying in another apartment and location not of your choosing and probably not up to your standards, if you are willing to chalk all this up to experience for the sake of stretching your budget - then go ahead. Just don't say you weren't warned.<<

Renting a vacation apartment in a popular city has always come with risk. Does anyone remember what it was like before the internet? There were never any guarantees or insurance policies that are offered today.

Back in time, nobody wanted to pay taxes on their extra income. These days, nobody wants their city to turn into another Venice. In New York City, it's all about who gets a portion of the money. Every popular city has a similar issue, the affordable choices for middle-class travelers are far and few between.

Does the wealthy hotel lobby get to tell us where we can and can't go? Do landlords have the right to prevent their residents from making extra money? Do I really have to ask to see someone's tax return before I agree to stay with them for two weeks?

While the politicians and the lawyers, most of them crooked and in need of tested ethics, figure the minutia out, my life's clock is ticking. Do I go to Paris now and live like a local in an affordable way, or do I pass and hand one more dream over to the 1 percent? Some say you only live once.

Like Janis said above, nothing to do with cost, everything to do with comfort.

Manouche wrote above that many people rent an apartment once only and because of problems, never again. I could not disagree more. I don't know of anyone who chose carefully and went back to using hotels unless they were just passing through or on a very brief trip. Once a traveler gets accustomed to the advantages offered by an apartment, returning to a hotel seems like such a let down.

cynthia, I agree. I don't know anyone who, once they've rented an apartment for a vacation, chooses to go back to a hotel. The only reason we ever stay in hotels anymore is if we're staying too short of a time to get an apartment.

I also disagree with Manouche that "all the good apartments are taken". I usually book six months out with lots of choices, but even closer to the date there's still usually places available. I find they're the more expensive properties, not the dives.

Even though my last rental apartment was not great I'll do it again. I love the extra space and when I go to those great markets I get to take the food "home".

Believe it or not, I am not anti-tourist or anti-apartment.
However, I live in a building that currently has 4 very popular vacation rentals. This has had a very negative effect on the quality of life of the residents of our building. We have dealt with noise, strangers and associated property damage for 5 years, and have now taken action with the Mayor's task force. Our building is only one affected - there are 200,000 illegal rentals that the city of Paris is aware of.

Anybody can rationalize their own actions, and that's up to their own personal ethics. I don't care what anyone does, unless it directly affects me in an adverse manner.

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that happy-go-lucky, money-saving, space-loving, eat-at-home-enthusiasts who rent vacation apartments would never allow short-term rentals in the buildings where they live - probably not even in their neighborhoods. In fact, I would guarantee it. Not in my backyard, etc...

Monica.... well I have rented an apartment on vacation in PAris.. a few times now.. and I STILL ALSO use and love hotels..I will rent an apartment again.. and I will still use hotels.. I don't find they replace one another for me.

Apartments are more work,, something I do not wish to do on vacation. Love having my bed made ,, the towels washed by someone else.. and the mini fridge in the hotel rooms has always been enough for me to keep some snacks/drinks in...

Mancouche I agree with you.. many of those same posters would be most unhappy to see different strange people in THEIR hallways every week...