Paris Apartment
 

What is the best agency to rent an apt in Paris for 1-2 weeks? Reliable listings etc.

None unless they provide the apartment's registration number (most short term rentals in Paris are illegal).

IF the flat does have a registration number you can be fairly confident it is legal -- but there aren't many % wise that are registered yet.

Your best option is Paris Perfect. We’ve been using then for several years.

Paris Perfect doesn't provide reg. numbers . . .

If you do not see the 13-digit registration number on any website you consult, it is an illegal apartment.
That's really all you need to know.

ParisPerfect is a time-sharing outfit, used by wealthy members.

vacationinparis, they have an NJ number, call them and talk to them about all of this.

Paris Perfect bar none! Like Robert2016, we have been using them for years. I have no doubt about their veracity.

Interesting idea Macross. What possible motive would a business in New Jersey have to warn anyone about illegal apartments in Paris? Particularly as their own inventory is probably 100% illegal.

As anyone who has driven down a French highway and had a motorcycle pass them on the right at a speed far in excess of the limit can verify, the French are not particularly apt at passing laws and then enforcing them unless it can be done by a speed camera.

Another example would be the breathalyser sticks that were required to be carried by all motorist and which had a fine of 0.00€ if you were found not to be in compliance with the law.

I´ll stop before I mention the Crit´air badge requirement but I sense that the government is slowly moving towards tightening its grip on illegal apartments.

Within the last year the mayor has had her enforcement staff strengthened from 20 to 25 inspectors (still woefully inadequate) and had convinced legislators to increase the fine to those offering illegal apartments from 25000€ to 50000€. She also wants the 120 day maximum annual rental period reduced to 90 days and wants legislation to hold advertisers (aka Airbnb) accountable for listing illegal apartments on their websites.

It remains a serious possibility that additional crackdowns on illegal apartments are coming. Other European cities have done it and I believe there is sufficient will in Paris to follow suit.

Just don´t expect it to happen this week.

I believe that Paris Perfect does list the registration number.

I've recently spent time looking for an apt in Paris. I've looked at agencies and AirBnb. There are some apts that list the registration number, but not many so far. Paris Perfect has some apts that show a registeration #.

"I believe that Paris Perfect does list the registration number."

"Paris Perfect has some apts that show a registeration #."

The ones I checked did not have a registration number. Plus, Paris Perfect is still soliciting owners to list their apartments without a mention of registration numbers or the limits on the number of days.

I checked 7 PP listings at random and not one had the Reg #. That is not to say that some might . . .

Their website makes no mention at all of having procedures to ensure the listings are legal - you'd sort of think they would flaunt it IF they were obeying the laws.

If the website lists the 13-digit registration number and if the calendar is not filled in all the way - as in the prescription for the 90 day limit on vacation periods for the property owner - you might be safe.

If, on the other hand, the calendar is full up, I wouldn't rent it.

As Sarastro points out, enforcement is the issue. Have any of you ever heard of anyone being kicked out of an apartment they rented because it was illegal?

No, but I have heard of people having flats pulled out from under them a few days before arrival. That is the big concern I'd have, booking something months ahead and having the owner 'caught' in the meantime.

I personally would ONLY book a registered/legal property.

"If, on the other hand, the calendar is full up, I wouldn't rent it."

If the calendar works anything like Airbnb's, an owner can block days for any reason and someone looking at the calendar will have no way to know whether those days are booked or blocked for another purpose. If the apartment is registered and the dates are available, book it if it's what you want.

I used to say www.parisbestlodge.com but I don't know about them under the new rules.

Out of 23 1-bedroom apartments that came up on a search on the Paris Perfect website, 2 of the apartments have a registration number and the rest do not.

I found an apartment on AirBnB for a stay next fall that does have the registration number. I was in touch with the owners before it was registered and they contacted me as soon as they received the number.

Gradually, some (but not all) apartments on many rental sites are complying. What that means as far as enforcement has yet to unfold.

Regarding PBL - I just checked their web site. They have 7 apartments listed. They used to have dozens. We tried to book through them last year and couldn't even get in contact with them. The new rules are clearly affecting them. I hope they make a comeback because they were always great.

sarastro, they are an agency and we have always used them. You can call and at least talk to them as I did if you live in the states. Tell them your concerns, yada yada yada.

Alas Macross, I do not live in the US. I live in Paris.

The website doesn't open for us in Paris...
Neither does Adrian Leeds' website.
They are blocked, apparently.

The agency I have used in the past has blocked French IP access to their site too. If that isn't a clue, I don't know what is. Doubt it will work for them.

In today´s news, the city has decided to start legal proceedings against Airbnb, Wimdu, ParisAttitude and Sejourning, forcing them to remove any listing on their websites which does not display the city required registration number.

http://immobilier.lefigaro.fr/articl...-b69e8584ef79/

And in English:

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171211/par...red-properties

<The new rules target landlords flouting France's 120-day legal limit set for renting out primary residences.

It is believed it could also put an end to tenants putting their apartments on Airbnb without the permission of the owners.>

Paul Manafort's daughter was renting out three apartments she had leased in NYC and making 30,000 a month. She had leased them for her film company. That is greed. Luxury apartments for huge amounts each night. So this states an owner of the said apartment can legally rent 120 days?

<Paul Manafort's daughter was renting out three apartments she had leased in NYC and making 30,000 a month. She had leased them for her film company. That is greed. Luxury apartments for huge amounts each night.>

Greed? How much was she paying for them? I'm no fan of Paul Manafort, but this sounds a lot like sour grapes.

Modern mega cities are crap at providing affordable housing, period. Going after short term rentals in prime locations is a distraction because the working poor were never going to be able to afford to live anywhere near them anyway.

Yes, basically legal apartments are those which are occupied by their owner who may rent his primary residence to tourists for a period not to exceed 120 days annually.

Full time renters or those with leases may do the same if they have approval from their landlords. They may not accept revenues from the short term rental of their apartment which exceed their own monthly rent/lease amount.

I have the impression that renting a room in a residence in which the owner or tenant remains during a vacation tenant's occupancy may have different rules as the "guest" is in addition to the full-time resident, not instead of the resident. Can anyone fill in this gap in the discussion?

I have seen nothing written that differentiates an owner´s being present or not as far as it pertains to short term rental rules and the 120 night maximum annual rental period. It would make no difference unless the room in question was rented all year in which case should term rules would not apply.

In fact, the original model for Airbnb was that only a room was rented from the owner/occupant. Airbnb did start out renting entire apartments.

"Airbnb did start out renting entire apartments."

Didn't?

I suspect the law applies only to entire apartments. I cannot see the point of limiting the number of days a guestroom can be rented as in most cases it wouldn't displace a long-term resident, as apartment rentals do. The point, one would suppose, is to get more apartments back onto the rental/purchase market.

So that they can be purchased by shell companies controlled by Russian oligarchs?

As far as the law ALUR is concerned, the 120 limitation has nothing to do with where an owner is or is not. While it is true that sharing accommodations will not necessarily consume apartment resources, many co-owners do not want any commercial activity in their building and have it written as such into the homeowners rules.

The law allowing 120 days of activity supersedes any written homeowner agreement thus you might consider it a compromise between various interests.

The mayor is pushing to have the 120 limit reduced to 90 days.

Newbe, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-family-affair

I rented from someone before that owned the building and the apartment we rented was where her daughter stayed when she was in France. Her job kept her in other countries. She felt like she was very legal as she paid taxes and rented only when the apartment was empty. I live in a tourist area and our property tax came with a notice about paying taxes if we were renting airbnb style units. I think Orange County got a similar notice.

The average 1 bedroom rental is approximately 30 square meters. The average rental income from this rental is normally 1,500 EU.

The average 1 bedroom rental with a yearly lease at 30 square meters is 850 EU.

Whew, didn't mean to start a firestorm. Update, Paris Perfect did not have an available flat for our dates in our neighborhood and the AirBnb website was not working properly in Paris so went back to HomeAway. I did see many places did list their registration number so thanks for that heads up. I would advise anyone shopping for a place to stay to really study the photos and read all the reviews carefully. I would not rent a place that had no reviews and could be a scam.

Just mention Paris apts on here and a firestorm is certain to erupt. Have a great trip.

There should be a thread with apartments that have got the registration numbers... maybe when they switch over to the new forum I will start one.

yestravel, a firestorm of four posters isn't really a firestorm. It is a tempest in a teapot. That is more true when not a single one of these posters are capable of answering the question, which was which agency was the best for renting - reliable listings, etc., and it was followed by the tiresome refrain of the interpretation of a french law by various ex-pats who live there now. Being in Paris would make one think that they would actually have a leg up on finding that answer, but I suspect that isn't in the cards.

rialtogrl: Never happen. The four horsemen of Paris apartment apocalypse would never let the information get out.

Some reviews are phony. You need to know that.

You also need to look very closely at the "metre carre" - the space you are going to be occupying for the time you are in Paris.

Sleeping arrangements, a kitchen with just a hot plate and a coffee machine, not many dishes, would turn me off. So would a non-working elevator, and grumpy neighbors.

Take off your shoes and everybody will be happy.