Paranoid about Safety
 

Hi all, we planning our first trip to Europe this northern winter. Have been perusing all the travel sites I can find and am reading some real horror stories about pick pockets, thieves, scammers etc. Apart from wearing neck belts/waist belts, what else can we do to be cautious. We are taking an SLR digital camera, which is quite large - we have bought a special pack for it which can be worn at the front or back, worried about it, but will not leave it at home - we are the type of people who will be taking hundreds and hundreds of photos. We will be travelling on public transport in Paris and through Italy. Don't want to be looking over my shoulder constantly. Is there no one we can trust over there?

Hi amandab ~

I would use the same precautions that you would use in any city.

If you are concerned about your camera, widen the strap so that you are able to carry it across your chest rather than over a shoulder.

The good news is that you are traveling during the winter season therefore you will be wearing a jacket. Previous to our last winter journey to Italy, I had our tailor put inside pockets in my husband's and my jackets so that I did not have to carry a purse. Very safe.

Carfeul with your comment: "Is there no one we can trust over there?" I am sure you would not want to offend anyone.

I have traveled to Italy alone and with my husband and felt equally safe during each vacation.

Best wishes, T.

Hi

I see that some people do get carried away when touching this subject. Yes, there are some problems with pick pockets in Europe and yes, from time to time people get stuff stolen from them. But I think it is important to not let this fear take over...remember that you are supposed to enjoy this trip and not live in constant fear that something might get stolen. The only thing I fear is that my pictures will get lost if my camera gets stolen. So I try to have many memory cards..or upload them to my laptop every night when I travel. Have a great trip. Take a look at my trip reports from Paris and Rome on my homepage http://gardkarlsen.com . As you will see we have not experienced anything while travelling there :d

Regards
Gard
Stavanger, Norway

Get a sling pack for the camera, rather than a two-strap backpack. Make it a habit to wear it mostly in front. Carry loose change in pockets, not in a wallet, so that you have money ready for small purchases without haveing to give away where you carry the real stuff.

If you have a wallet, make sure it's so far inside your layers of clothing and zippered away that it can't be got at.

No waistpacks ("fanny packs" which is an expression that, well, ask a Brit what it really means...), they're a give-away of where your stuff is that should be stolen....

Read up on various websites what people who got done have to say - often they don't come forward because they are embarrassed, but anybody who makes light of the realities is not doing you a service.

"Nothing ever happened to us" does not qualify as good advice.

Yes, take is seriously, but - no - don't be paranoid, just aware, not naive; there are thousands of people from the Balkans and other deprived countries woring (yes, it's a job for them) all over Europe, and they're good - you don't know you've been had until it's too late. In Venice a citizen's watch comitte has formed because it has gotten so bad. Nothing violent, mind you, but they're quick and experienced, so - don't let them.

You have to be equipped and practiced to the point that you need not think about it all the time, but many things need to be practised, like when the two of you are at an ATM, don't both be looking at the screen with your backs to the world - one of you stands the other way and peruses the scene. Elementary. Same at a newsstand, ticket window etc.

Don't put your bags on the ground when waiting, without having a strap on a firm grip or a foot through a strap or something like that.

And on and on, it's only commonsense, but do it or you'll be sorry. And - no - it's not like "in any city" - there's not nearly the same level of pickpocketing going on in NYC or LA as there is in Barcelona, Venice, Paris, etc.

It's really up to you - prepare, and you'll be fine. Be smart and go have fun.

ditto wally's advice, and stay aware of who is around you, especially if suddenly there is a small group of innocent enough looking people.

the thieves don't "LOOK" like thieves.. just ordinary looking people on a mission. and i do mean they are on a mission from the time they get up til they go to bed.

this is their livelihood(sp?) and they are very good at it.

it is something we all must learn to deal/live with, but i haven't been bodily robbed (that i know of!!) in 35 years living here.. but unfortunately many of my clinets/guests and students have.

if you heed the warinings and incorporate the recommended safety measures into your daily routine, you should have no problem.

enjoy your trip!

Oops, sorry, I certainly don't want to offend anyone. Thank you for the advice and comments - yes alot of it I guess is just having common sense and being aware of your surroundings. No doubt we'll be wearing jackets so perhaps any day packs/bags we will be carrying could be under the jackets - good idea.

Gard, your web site looks great, I'm going to save it to my favourites and read all about your travels later. :)

I wouldn't carry your daypacks under your jackets or anything that extreme - just carry your day packs like normal but don't put your valuables in them. Keep your money, passports, credit cards, etc. on your person rather than in the bag. That way, if someone snatches your backpack they just get your guide book, bottled water, and gum - LOL - all of which, including the backpack can be replaced quickly and without hassle. My husband travels with a big camera and takes plenty of pictures (1200+ pictures in 2 weeks). He has a daypack type camera bag, which is ok, but I would prefer a messenger bag style so he could carry it on his side.

Dont forget that only a tiny proportion of travellers end up as victims of crime. But of course, all the millions who aren't don't immediately log on to forums on their return to say 'we went and nothing happened to us!' So you are not getting a realistic picture from the horror stories. It happens everywhere in the world, not just in Europe, but it probably won't happen to you unless you are either extremely unlucky or extremely dumb.

As a Newbie I have a simple question what does topping mean?

jrecm - "topping" means adding a post to a thread in order to bring it back to the top of the list, i.e. to stop it sinking into obscurity as new threads appear. Most people just post a reply that consists of the word "topping", or "ttt" ("to the top").

You could for instance top one of your own threads if you'd like to bring it back into prominence in the hope of garnering more answers to your question, or you could top someone else's thread for whatever reason.

Amanda just remember that you are in a different place and no matter how hard you try, depending upon the degree of contrast from your own culture, locals will pick up on that you are not from there. That being said, i think, after traveling through quite a few european cities, living in some for extended periods, I found it most helpful and fun to pick up on local sayings and styles of fashions...when in roma....If you don't want to be seen as a tourist, don't look like one. Yes, comfortable shoes are a must, but if you wear the brand new Reeboks with a brand new pair of travel khakies that you just picked up for the trip, along with a T-shirt that says 'Twin Lakes PTA' for example, all the while toting your camera, shoulder bag and map, you most definitely will stick out. Speaking for Europe, the style is pretty casual but nice. People take pride in their appearance and you won't see a lot of t-shirts and shorts, even in Portual in the summer in 100+heat. Bottom lin e when people go out, they want to look nice, whether going for a paper or a dinner with friends. You can find those comfortable shoes but maybe try the local shoe shops when you arrive and keep the reeboks in the suitcase for traveling through airports. You can find great deals on a good back that looks sylish too, so you don't need to carry the old reliable gear bag for all your things.. In terms of language, try and learn as much as you can of the not-so-travel-guide book phrases...pick up some local slang and you'll start your journey toward blending in! One more tip i give people, is this. Chances are, in this day and age you have a cell phone with you, in fact that's probably how you'll call your relatives when you arrive back home...?? keep it with you and if you get in a situation where you think someone might be eyeing you up (sometimes is really obvious), pull out your phone and make like your dialing...it sounds silly but can be a good deterrent and a would-be pickpocket or purse snatcher might just think twice.

I just want to finish though by saying that it's most important to go and have FUN on your vacation. Europe is not exactly teeming full of marauders and hoodlums, in fact most big cities such as Lisbon and Porto, are perfectly safe to walk around at night, all night. These places have a great night life and there is usually plenty to see and do, and lots of people. IF you ever get in a jam, language wise or whatever, stop someone and simply ask if they speak English and can help you out...many college age students will surprise you with their english.

Best of luck
aaron

Hi Amanda,

Let´s turn this round a bit. Several years ago we flew into Los Angeles airport. I was very nervous because I had read about the murder rate in USA and had seen horrific movies about what can happen to people in the USA. I didn´t want to go outside my hotel for fear of being mugged. We had to walk to the parking lot where the hire car was located. I was looking over my shoulder all the time. I even took my jewelry off just in case. When we drove out of Los Angeles, I kept all the doors of the car locked, because I had heard that people can attack you while you are stopped at traffic lights ...........

Does that sound reasonable? Of course not, I made it up,but if you believe all the bad things you read will happen to you, then you would think like this.

Where do you live ? Like Tiff says, use the same precautions you would in any big city. I've never used a money belt or similar in Italy, but I keep an eye on my handbag and don't carry too much cash, just like if I go down town here when it's busy. And a special note for any Americans who think Europe is full of thieves - I had my coat stolen in New York City !!

You also will probably find that the risks vary from city to city, and of course within cities themselves. You will start to get a feel for it. For example, I have had more trouble in London with credit card/bank card-related frauds and scams than anywhere else I've travelled in world. For example, I lived in London for a year, and found that if I left my garbage out for pick-up more than an hour before the pick-up time, someone would have gone through it and stolen the credit card receipts. A few years ago, they also had quite a problem with thieves messing with ATMs so that they could access your code and copy your card. On a subsequent visit, after I had used my credit a few times in a couple of shops and a restaurant, someone (an employee, I'm sure) took the credit card number and charged $4000 worth of plane tickets online and by telephone to my credit card. On the other hand, I never felt uncomfortable moving around the city and on the tube with a daypack (as my purse) containing my wallet in the outside pocket.

In Paris, where I live now, overall I feel safer - in terms of physical safety, lack of concern about pickpocketing, scams, etc. For example, in French restaurants, waiters bring the credit card reader to your table (instead of taking your card away to run it through the machine). I'm careful on the Metro (I try never to sit beside the doors) and hold on tightly to my purse, but otherwise don't take other precautions.

In Madrid, Barcelona and Sevilla, I felt that I needed to be very careful with my wallet, bag, etc. I heard stories every day from residents and tourists who had had something stolen.
These are just not the places where you hang your purse on the back of your chair in a restaurant, or put it on the floor or a chair beside you. I knew someone who had his credit card stolen from his wallet, which was inside a jacket hanging on his chair in a very upscale restaurant. A very nicely dressed man appears to have stolen the card, surreptiously copied it and handed it back to my friend, saying he'd found the wallet on the floor. My friend never suspected anything - until he got his credit card bill a few weeks later and saw all the unauthorised charges.

You have already received lots of good advice from other fodorites. I'll add a few more suggestions here.

Neck belts and waist belts aren't always necessary, but you do want to keep a hand and an eye on valuable belongings. That also means that, in restaurants, be careful about what you hang on the back of your seat. I usually put my purse in my lap, unless I'm sitting somewhere where the purse can really be placed in an inaccessible location.

Try to avoid carrying everything with you. Lock it up in a safe, don't bring every credit card you own with you, and split your cards so that you have one and your travelling companion has another card, so if one get's stolen, you've still got another one to use.

Avoid situations where you both are distracted (or look distracted) in very crowded places. Plan your route with a map in a cafe or hotel before you go, so that you don't have to pull it out and pore over it together on crowded streets. If you do need to pull out a map, try stepping into a less crowded shop - or, at a minimum, do so with your back against a wall and your travelling partner keeping an eye on your surroundings.

In situations where you are going to be carrying all of your valuables and are likely to be particularly vulnerable (e.g. when you've just arrived in a city and are trying to find the bus to your hotel, loaded down with luggage, tickets, passport, etc), take extra precautions. Sometimes, my husband and I take turns. For example, he's in charge of navigation and I'm in charge of thinking about where our stuff is. Similarly, if your husband is going to get snap-happy and distracted by thoughts of taking pictures, that's a good time for you to be more conscious of your surroundings.

Likewise, if you go to an ATM, one of you should stand guard (back to back with the person using the machine) to keep an eye out.

Keep the money you need for the day, or part of a day, relatively accessible. There's not much point of using a neck pouch if you have to half-undress yourself and expose all your valuables in the ticket line-up in the metro or for a museum.

Think carefully about the situations in which you hand over your credit card. In the UK, I often used to pay with cash - because I just didn't trust the situation. (It's different now since they introduced microchips in credit cards, but that also means that yours might not work.) Don't hand your credit card to a shop assistant who has to disappear with it to run up the charge. If they can't do it front of you, pay cash (or go get cash to pay for your purchase).

Finally, you might want to invest in one of those services (offered by some banks and credit card companies) that allows you to register all of your cards, so that you can make just one call to cancel everything if your wallet is stolen.

Don't forget to call your credit card companies before you leave to tell them you'll be travelling and where. They will put a note in your file, and this will reduce the risk that they will flag your foreign use of your credit card as suspicious. At the same time, if you are travelling somewhere with a bad reputation for scams, you might want to let the credit card company know after you've left the country - so that if additional charges come through, an alert is raised.

KateW: "I lived in London for a year, and found that if I left my garbage out for pick-up more than an hour before the pick-up time, someone would have gone through it and stolen the credit card receipts" ?!? I find this very hard to believe : I lived in London for 10 years and never heard of this happening to anyone. Or indeed any of the other credit card scams you mention.

And how can you tell that someone has been through your garbage looking for credict card receipts to steal? Rummage through the bags yourself? No thanks. I;m with Caroline.

Anyway, you should have put them in a paper recycling bank :-)

Where are you going in Italy? Some places require more alertness than others. In general, the Italian countryside is extraordinarily safe, and so are trains (if not all train stations). Where you need to be very mindful of your belongings is in areas that attract thousands of tourists (the Trevi fountain, the Colosseum area, the Vatican, Piazza San Marco in Venice, etc). The big city train stations and the buses that lead from are also places to keep a firm grip on your valuables.

I've been to Italy close to a dozen times. I've never been robbed or pickpocketed, and I go to all the major tourist sights and take public transportation.

>>>>>
And a special note for any Americans who think Europe is full of thieves - I had my coat stolen in New York City !!
>>>>>

i would guess that the OP is NOT from the US, so there is no need to *teach* her that crime exists in the US as well. american crime levels are quite irrelevent to this thread (although any foders discussion of crime in europe always shifts to a discussion of crime in the US --for some strange reason that i fail to understand!).

Hi A,

As noted, of the millions of people who travel to Europe only thousands have problems with pickpockets, etc.

It is those few who report.

Re your camera: Where it in front.

Never put anything valuable in a backpack; they are too easily opened.

I put safety pins on my pockets.

Good advice above on how to use an ATM.

If any stranger offers to take pictures of you with your camera, check to see if their own camera is more expensive than yours. :)

Don't worry so much, and enjoy your visit.

((I))

I believe it is important to take precautions. But I also feel that crime may appear exaggerated when you read on internet travel forums.

As one person already mentioned, the thousands of people who do not have anything bad happen, do not rush home and post "Hey I did not get pickpocketed in Madrid"... but the ones who had a problem are more likely to be vocal about it.

Be cautious and careful but no need to be constantly looking over your shoulder. Enjoy your trip.

A little anectdote about safety-

We've run the Barcelona-Napoli-Roma-Paris Metro gauntlet with jewelry, expensive digital cameras, a thousand + in currency and laptops...All the biggest no-no's you can do and we haven't lost a euro. We stayed alert and kept our valuables safe-guarded.

AND THEN...

Our home got robbed while we were at work last week and we lost all of those things we worked so hard to keep secure while on vacation. The best, most accomplished thieves in the world couldn't get what a couple of teenagers got in 20 minutes.

C'est La Vie

Carlux and caroline_edinburgh:

Yes, people did go through our garbage in London and yes, you can tell that they've gone after the credit card receipts. Where did it happen? Two different locations: a) Tavistock Square (apt 1) and b) Clapham (near the Clapham north tube stop). You can tell that they're going after your credit card receipts and similar items (e.g. bank statements) because the bags have been pulled apart, everything else is on the ground and the receipts and statements are missing. Once we started shredding this stuff, we still had some garbage bags opened, but the shredded paper was left on the ground. I don't think it was raccoons (that's who gets into your garbage in Canada, but they're looking for other treats). As for other scams and did they really happen, well, yes, I really did have my credit card number (but not my card) used by someone else to charge plane tickets following a transation in either a restaurant or a store. And as I was only in London for 14 hours on that trip, I can narrow down with a fair degree of precision where it happened. And I'm not the only person who experienced this particular scam. Several other people told me of similar experiences.

As for the other scam mentioned involving ATM machines, well, you are entitled to your opinion as to whether there was a problem in the UK, but you might want to ask yourself why the UK recently introduced the chip + PIN system, or why the UK set up a special task force in 2002 to deal with the huge increase in fraudulent activity relating to bank and credit cards: http://www.cardwatch.org.uk/default....&pageid=82

(Of course, the new chip and pin system has its own risks.)

Of course, I could make the same dismissive comments you did about the occurrence or non-occurrence of theft, fraud, etc in other various countries. I've never been pick-pocketed while travelling (and I travel a lot). I guess that means, therefore, that other peoples' first-hand experiences with being pickpocketed or observing pickpocketing must not be true.

The reason I gave the examples I did was twofold: a) to illustrate the point that the prevalance of various types of security/theft/fraud issues can vary depending on where you are (so be alert to what the particular problems are in certain cities); and b) to encourage the OP (and others) to be careful about the use of credit cards and ATM cards in the UK - and elsewhere.

Cadillac,

OUCH!!! So sorry to hear that. You have the sympathy of all of us.

:-(

The only place I've ever had thieves get something from me was also in my home when I lived in a small town in Washington State many years ago...I left for an overnight trip to my niece's baptism, and came home to find my stereo missing, along with my jewelry box rifled through, and my John Elway jersey missing from my closet. Kids.

I've been to New York, London, Paris, Rome, Athens, and Istanbul, and places in between, and have never been robbed in those places. It's important to act like you would in any big city here or there -- wear a money belt for your credit cards, passport & other important documents (don't bother with the hotel safe, just keep it with you), and carry just a day's cash in your front pocket or purse.

My camera was the only thing that was worth anything that I kept in my bag that I would have been sad to lose, but it <i>could</i> be replaced, minus the pictures I hadn't downloaded onto my iPod.

You can't walk around on vacation being completely paranoid, or it's not a vacation...just take appropriate measures to keep your belongings close to you at all times, pay attention to your surroundings, and you'll most likely be fine.

Happy travels,

Jules

When binbags are pulled apart, it's usually seagulls or dogs.

Amandab:

I've only once (touch wood) been robbed while travelling in the past 30 years.

In Auckland.

0. I know that credit card issuers have made people paranoid about keeping their credit card numbers secret, but you have to understand that they do this to protect THEMSELVES, not YOU.

1. Receipts from modern POS machines don't have credit card numbers on them - usually only the last four digits. Thieves know this, and wouldn't bother with dumpster diving, regardless of what the fear-mongers selling security devices would have you believe.

2. Having a credit card number does not allow charges to be made on your account unless there's a rogue merchant involved. No merchant with an IQ above room temperature would take a number over the phone without requiring the CVV and doing a mailing address check.

3. Airline tickets obtained fraudulently are useless, as the carriers require the credit card used to buy the tickets to be presented at check-in.

4. Your Cardholder Agreement protects you against fraudulent use of your card. If it doesn't have your signature on it (or authentication for on-line transactions), you're not liable for the charges.

Be careful of your cash, passport, and valuable equipment.

&quot;3. Airline tickets obtained fraudulently are useless, as the carriers require the credit card used to buy the tickets to be presented at check-in.&quot;

I have never been asked to show my credit card when checking in - must just have a more honest face that Robbie :-)

Reading the reports on this forum, it would seem that your experience is atypical. But thanks for the valuable insight.

Might be typical for US domestic travel - but is not typical for European travel. Can be used for &quot;quick check-in&quot; at booths in airports but is not necessary. Also web-check in is becoming much more available and no one there to see your credit card.

caroline_edinburgh:

They must have been very smart seagulls or dogs who pulled apart my binbags, because they only took the credit card receipts and bank statements.

And yes, paper should be recycled. Thank you for the lesson. Perhaps you'd like to come over to my apartment and check my garbage every week.

Hopefully the bickering of fodorites will reassure the Original Poster that they will be safe on their vacation.
:-)

That's funny, Suze.

My world-wise friend fell for the most common trick in the book. In Paris someone tapped him on the shoulder and said mustard was on his jacket, being a fashionisto he panicked and put down his briefcase to check his beloved jacket. Pouf, off with the briefcase! And there was mustard on his jacket as well.
Poor guy.

Thank you everyone for the very sensible advice here, its really appreciated. I will use the tips and advice given and am looking forward to having a wonderful time in Europe.
To 'flanneruk' - I'm stunned.

I have never been the victim of crime, but I HAVE lost and misplaced things myself more than once, by being distracted or unorganized or simply not understanding something while traveling. (The time in Italy when I confused my train ticket with the reservations slip and nearly threw out the ticket part! for example).

One tip: Don't leave anything out on the balcony of room with connecting balconies. As in balconies that someone could climb across, even with considerable effort.

I left my fairly new, but smelly white athletic shoes on the balcony to air out after a day of sightseeing. They were gone in the morning. This was in Greece.

Funny, I thought that Europeans were aghast as the sight of white athletic shoes.

Suze
I am with you - I have sewn more things around the world than I care to admit. Jacket in pub in Lake District, lovely pen and pencil set on plane; waterproof in room in Agra; shoes in Darwin; alarm clock in Venice; once even left bottom half of pyjamas in Singapore!

Only time I have even been robbed was in Orlando airport - my own silly fault, bag was not completely zipped up - lost walkman and about a 12 CDs - bet the thief was less than impressed when he/she discovered the majority were opera! Okay I realise that could be seen as a sweeping statement in that the thief might have been a huge Wagner fan!

I've never had anything stolen or my pockets picked while in Europe. Just use the same precautions there that you would in the States. I do recommend using safety pins on your pockets while using the Metro, just as a precaution.