Packing light December in Germany
 

DH and I are going to the Christmas markets in Germany early to mid December and need help assembling a wardrobe. what do you suggest I need in addition to this: jeans, one pair lined wool flannel slacks and one heavy lined waterproof pair of pants. In addition, I have several cotton turtleneck tops, a cashmere pullover, a lightweight cardigan, a down-filled coat, waterproof boots, waterproof lace up shoes, a waterproof rain jacket, and silk long johns. We will be on the ground 9 days. This does not include what I will wear on the plane coming and going. Am I taking enough? The right stuff? Best head gear? Thanks for advice.
K

Sounds like you have it covered. In addition, I would not forget an umbrella, gloves and some sort of fleece (or other warm) hat. I prefer polypro long johns but many are happy with silk. Have a great time! I find that trip easy to pack light for because no one sees what's under your outerwear. I also throw in a scarf to 'dress up' the top at night.

We did this trip a few years ago. Included Vienna and Prague, by train. 2 weeks out of a Rollie, including "dress-up" for holiday dinners and concerts. I would not take jeans--too much weight for the warmth they provide and they don't work as well for evenings as a pair of good black wool pants. I took one coat, a lined waterproof. That was enough, with a couple of sweaters for layering. Down is likely to be more than you need. And one pair of good walking shoes, with some light warm wool socks, is enough too. Light (fleece or smart wool) gloves, hat and scarf. If you get cold, you can take refuge in a cozy stubbe or have another cup of gluhwein!

Early/mid December is usually more wet and cool (but above freezing, at least during the day), than snow and bitter cold. Any softshell type fleece plus that waterproof jacket should be able to substitute that down jacket.
The latter would be fine if you planned to hike. But in the city you will probably change between indoors and outdoors numerous times each day. So anything "too warm" may become more a burden. Jeans are worn anywhere, anytime here.

Sounds good but I would include a shawl/pashima..Good for dress up, good for adding to the short duvets that seem to prevail in Germany.

Thanks all. Will prepare for not-quite-so-cold and take rain gear. Had forgotten about the short duvets - will plan to take something for cover.

We went to the Christmas markets in early December five years ago and are going again this year. I took one pair of jeans, 2 or 3 pairs of cords, one of which I wore on the plane, and one pair of dressier light weight black wool slacks that I used primarily for evenings out but could be worn during the day as well. I took one winter coat. This year my coat will be probably be a hooded waterproof one with a detachable vest. I also took turtlenecks that could be layered with a heavier sweater if needed, one or two sweaters, hat, gloves, scarf/pashmina and socks. I mostly wore a pair of fleece lined boots but also had another pair of shoes that I could walk in but were a little dressier. My boots were not rain boots. I did not take long underwear but took a pair of tights that could be worn under slacks. I took an umbrella, too.

The weather was not terribly cold that year but there was one rainy day and several days that had a damp feel to them.

You only need one coat - one that is waterproof.
Take an umbrella.
You need two pairs of waterproof shoes/boots.
I suggest a hat, scarf and gloves.
Leave your jeans home. Even if you can wear them anywhere, if they get wet, they take days to dry out.
Warm socks - I suggest smart wool or something similar. You want them warm and breathable. You will be walking on cold, damp pavement.
Cashmere is your friend - lightweight, warm, layers well and looks fabulous.
Absolutely take the silk long johns!
Have fun!

Thin merino wool sweaters (washable); Marmot or Patagonia base layers; packable down jackets (folding into their own pockets,& make perfect plane pillows); waterproof hooded at least to hip jackets (my down fits under it); smartwool socks, waterproof boots, waterproof shoes (I have gortex low hikers very good on slippery cobblestones as well as trails); cuddleskins or undersilks that can be p.j.'s as well as worn under thin ponte knit pants. I never travel to Europe w/ jeans, too bulky, cold and forever to dry. We bring windblock caps to wear under hooded jacket and never bring umbrellas either, too much a bother in the cities. Black cashmere turtleneck is another travel staple. Two silk scarves, perhaps one pashmina as your plane blanket or over a jacket/sweater at night. Look for 'performance' sportswear which is no maintenance, stretchy, and drives in a flash.

P.S. the down jackets we love are the 800-denier weight that work from 30-60 degrees, not our traditional down that are much bulkier. For warmer pants, I'd get a pair of corduroy or heavier leggings, now available (finally) at fine stores and so cool w/ boots.

The pashima also can help as an extra "blanky" in bed as the comforters can be a little short as I remember them from a few years ago.

All I will say is that December 2012 wasn't too cold and I wore a light jacket every day, December 2011 was frigid and I wore my heavy pea coat almost every day, and December 2010 was somewhere in between.

Bag the jeans, take only one pair of lined trousers, and take a pair of light wool trousers. Your ideas would be fine if you were climbing mountains but too warm if you ever go indoors.

While Germany is generally more wet than cold in December, our last two Christmas Market Visits in 2010 and 2012 were unusually cold and snowy. I would prepare to layer. A couple pictures to describe the weather.

http://mcchelsea.smugmug.com/Advent-...5028020_t5NQGm

http://mcchelsea.smugmug.com/Advent2...7268742_XPCq6D

It is better to leave off a layer than be without one that you need. I pack in a smaller than carry-on size roller. I rely on silk, smart wool and poly fleece to give me light, packable layers. I have a Goretex shell jacket to block the wind and rain.

It is a wonderful time to visit. Have a great time. Gary

I was in the eastern and the southern Germany the first week of December last year. The temperature went above freezing for a few hours one day. Half of the time, it was snowing sometimes very hard and the lowest temp was 18F. To deal with big difference in temperatures between indoors and outdoors, it is best to use layers as opposed to heavy items with less options to adjust the warmth. You need good head/ear/neck covers as you are likely to walk around and spend a lot of time cold windy outdoors at night to visit the markets. We carried perhaps half as much thing as you listed for the same number of days. We chose clothes with high tech materials having wide operating temperature characteristics. We don't take cotton tops. While they are comfortable, I don't think they do well at low and high temperature (indoors are sometimes too hot in Germany) ends. If things get wet, use those towel warmers in the bathrooms often found in German hotels to dry your clothes.

I really appreciate all your suggestions, recommendations and the beautiful snow pictures. We're hoping to see a little - not a lot of - snow while there. I'm busy re-thinking my wardrobe, making lists, getting excited about the trip.
K

A contributor to over packing is a prevalence of one-time-if-at-all-only wears in the luggage. You mentioned what you wear on the plane being different, from the rest of the trip? Is there a compelling reason for this? I don't like packing this way because it eats up a space and add weight to my luggage for something I wear 16 hrs out of 2weeks. Also, in case of delayed/lost luggage, what I wear on the plane, at least the outbound trip, must better be what I would wear once I arrive at the destination.

down is BULKY???? It compresses to almost nothing in many cases and takes up much less room than some fleeces.

I think one pair of jeans is OK and nice to have with you, I would wear them on the plane.

I'm no expert, but I'm questioning:
*one heavy lined waterproof pair of pants
*down-filled coat
*waterproof boots
*waterproof lace up shoes
*waterproof rain jacket
Do you really need that many different pieces of outerwear? Is it really going to be pouring rain the entire time? Seriously I'm just asking because this seems kind of outdoorsy and overkill for visiting Christmas Markets in towns/cities.

Definitely add a scarf, hat, gloves.

greg,
What I wear on the plane, either jeans or khakis, would work well at my destination if luggage goes astray. I generally wear the same thing coming and going and don't wear it while on the ground because I probably won't have the opportunity to get it laundered. To me, 20+ hours in one outfit is enough. Yeah, I do have to tote it around for the duration, but I still manage to pack relatively light (one 20" roller plus a tote bag for a month-long trip). The upcoming December trip will require the next-larger bag (22") because I plan to make some purchases.

suze,
You're probably right that I should leave some of the stuff at home. I still have a while to work on this. Part of my problem is that I'm not really used to cold weather and tend to feel cold when others don't seem bothered. Same with wet -- I like dry. So why, I ask, am I going to Germany in December, when it's much colder than here at home and often rainy, to prowl the outdoor Christmas markets? Heaven only knows! I think I've lost my mind.

I'm no expert and have never once been to Germany in December (there's my disclaimer)! I was in Switzerland once in November is the closest I've gotten -lol!

But if I were making this trip I'd go with nice city winter clothes... low heeled/rubber soled water resistant black boots, winter trousers, a couple layers on top, a winter coat of some sort, gloves, hat, scarf... not in waterproof clothing like you'd use for hiking or camping.

Just make sure you have enough so if one outfit gets wet, you have a dry one as backup. The beauty to me of winter travel is don't even worry about washing any of the outer layers for only a 9 day trip.

Oh if it's raining, you duck into a cafe and have a glass of wine or something warm to drink ;-) You don't need to plan this trip assuming the very worst weather and as if you'll be out in the elements 24/7.

Gary - Your pictures illustrate why I keep going back. I get a warm feeling just looking at them. I'm sorry I will miss St. Nicholaus day this year. But, better late than never.
crckwc - Enjoy!

You need ONE wind- and waterproof warm coat, and wear it for the flight, so it does not go into the luggage. Packing two coats, and wearing a third for the journey? does not make sense. Also wear the bulkiest pair of shoes for the flight and take them off on the plane.

Add scarf, hat, gloves as the others said, and thin insulating inlay soles to put into your shoes - they make a helluva difference on freezing pavement. If you can't find them at home, buy them when you are here, they cost just a few Euros.
I prefer fleece to wool because it dries quickly and can be washed so you can wear it twice as long.

I have experienced the Christmas markets in Saxony in temperatures of -15°C and icy wind, which was really something, Glühwein did not help any more - however, the least comfortable conditions are temperatures slightly above zero, rain and strong wind. Prepare for all eventualities.

I take a down jacket that fits into the pocket of the down jacket. That compressed. It also makes a great pillow. I have a jack wolfskin coat from Germany that is waterproof with a hood that I am taking next month and can wear over the very light weight down jacket. Scarf, gloves, head band style hat, smart wool socks and I wear jeans. We have a washer/dryer where we are staying. I am taking a pair of tights to wear if I am really cold. Shoes, one pair of leather walking shoes and a pair of boots just in case on gets wet. I am a Floridian so don't have a lot of winter clothing. I do layers.

No, not three coats - two - pack the lightweight jacket and take the heavier (it's not really heavy but it's down and it's warm) coat onboard. Maybe I don't need the down coat. I don't live where it's very cold so it may be overkill but I would rather take it and never wear it than be there needing it and I left it at home. Wearing boots onboard which I'll take off and slip on fold-up slippers, packing another pair of thick-soled, waterproof shoes because I never, ever go anyplace with only one pair of shoes. I wear orthotics with a cushioned insole over, so there's lots between my feet and the cold ground. I have the smart wool socks, scarf, gloves, umbrella, earmuffs, silk long johns, 3 pair slacks, several long sleeved tops, a cashmere pullover sweater, one gown (or p.j.s), one warm but lightweight robe and 2 or 3 sets of undies that I don't mind washing while traveling. All this fits into my 20" roller but I'm taking a slightly larger bag so that I can bring back stuff. So, what am I missing?

You will need more than one sweater, or do you intend to wear the same one nine days in a row? Better pack two or three instead of the additional jacket. I am still not sure why you need two jackets.

Why not? (wear the same sweater every day). I wouldn't pack more than one of either (jacket or sweaters).

**sniff**

That's why.

I assumed you have another piece or two of clothing on under the sweater, that it was not against your skin.

suze - yes, a pullover sweater to wear over a knit shirt which goes over a light thermal undershirt, if needed.
quokka - I failed to mention the black cardigan that I take on every trip. Probably don't "need" two coats - just "want" two coats. All layered up, I might not need even one coat, but I'm taking two -- just because.

We depart Thanksgiving Day 2013 for the Christmas Markets. Heading to opening ceremonies at Rothenburg for that Friday. I think this will be our 6 or 7th time to do this. Really looking forward to it. Rothenburg is small, quaint and a lot of fun to go to.

You seem to have a good handle on what you need. Some years have been nice and sunny for us, others have been cold. You will not know that until you get there. I always take normal pants and use long johns as needed. May take one pair of jeans but agree on them getting dry if wet. My wife is taking only black jeans and pants. Good for the day, good for the restaurants at night. Definitely gloves, scarf and hat.

I also take travel underwear and socks. They wash out in the sink and dry overnight. Love these things! Been using them for 10 years on trips. Expensive to buy from Exofficio but great for trips like this to keep down the weight and not have to carry your 10 day supply of dirty underwear along all trip. I also have some undershirts from them.

You have me tasting the Gluwein already! Great time to be in Germany! We will also be in Garmisch and Heidelberg this time. Staying at our old haunts from previous trips.

<<a pullover sweater to wear over a knit shirt which goes over a light thermal undershirt>>

See that's why one sweater is plenty. Plus it's only 9 days.

I still don't get the reason for 2 coats though, or how that's "packing light". And definitely do not take those "waterproof pants"!!!!

When I read "waterproof pants" I envisioned the rain gear that the highway patrol wears in the rain :)

But yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about the all-weather gear - just plan to visit museums and cafes when the weather is bad. I keep telling my husband that we need to go to Europe in the winter - he wants to know why. So we can haunt museums and cafes, of course.

I did not read all the replies but one thing I just discovered was Capeli fleeced lined leggings! There are so soft and warm. They also make fleece lined tops and they are cute and stylish.

annesherrod - the Capeli lined leggings sound great. Thanks. Where would I find them?

november_moon - not bright yellow LOL but black and look like regular slacks - lined with something lightweight and warm

suze - we both seem to be obsessed with the two coats - you because two are too many, me because I think two are just right - LOL - pack the light one,weighs nothing, wear/carry the down one on the plane - not technically "packing light" by some standards, but whatever, it's what I'm going to do.

It's going to be cold in Germany, so you already got the warmers you'll need in your list. Scarf/shawl, gloves, winter coat/jacket, beanie/bonnet and of course umbrella (if it rains - winters can be unpredictable) is all you need. You only need to pack lightly.

I lived in Munich for 15 years in the '80s/'90s so got used to living in a Central European climate. When visiting friends in December (doing it again this year for 8 days) I make sure I have at least one pair of warm shoes/boots that are properly waterproof. Because it can rain heavily, and because it can snow. Snow in the city turns into slush very quickly, and it's no fun walking with wet or cold feet. If you've got a pair of shoes or boots with proper ridges on the soles you've also got a bit of help if/when the snow/slush turns to ice. Everything else I do with layers that are easy to put on/take off when going into museums/shops/restaurants or friends' homes. The lace-up waterproof shoes I wear on the flight, I carry or wear the quilted coat, gloves in the pocket, and everything else fits in a carry-on suitcase for the flight out. If I've bought a lot at the Christmas markets, I check in my carry-on on the flight home and have a large soft shoulder bag as a carry-on for the breakables. Hand-carved Christmas decorations from the Erzgebirge being one of my weaknesses and great for Christmas presents when I get back home. Have a wonderful time!

I just bought pair of the Capeli leggings at Bed Bath and Beyond. $9.98 They seem warm and fit under my wind pants nicely.