you can also order silk long underwear and packing cubes/envelopes from llbean.com. lynda

Got the silk underwear today. Since we don't leave until 11/1, it will get cold enough in Oct., here in Indiana, for me to "test" them. Thanks for the info.

Also got some more treasures! 3 oz shaving lotion, 2.5 oz spray cologne, .17 oz Tide sink washing gel (3 of them), & a shaving oil my hubby is going to test - but doesn't feel will work as aerosol replacement.

For me, got 3 pairs of black knit slacks the other day, with matching zipper knit black sweater with hood. All pack small & will be warm enough (which was my concern) & shouldn't wrinkle. Wore pair of the pants today to test & they are very comfortable. Later I'll test hand washing & drying them.

Now if I can just find my hubby a 3 oz aerosol can of shaving cream!

Did test packing yesterday. I was shocked! Everything fits in our backpack! 5 tops, 3 slacks (as above), 16 days undies (won't do undies by hand), 8 socks, sweater (as above), nitegown, toiletries, etc.

However, must still check a bag because we are flying RyanAir & can't get carryon down to 22 lbs. So this trip, checked is necessary on one leg of the trip only. We will carryon our backpack & check our little 22" wheelie. That is still so much better than our customary bringing of the kitchen sink! Much better for Venice bridges & the train overhead luggage racks!

Thanks everyone. We are excited to see how this goes. I have a feeling this is the new way of traveling for us :-)

Julie

I've seen the mini cans of shaving cream at Target in the sample size toiletries section.

Thanks for everyone's hints and encouragement. Don't think I can do it with a carry one for this trip but may try the next time to Hawaii where there will be no dress up needed.

Don't forget you still have to get all those 3oz containers into a litre plastic bag per person - those bags don't hold very much. IME a 3oz/100ml container is too big - you'll only get a couple into a bag. When I do carry-on only, for weekends, my containers are more like 15ml each and they only just all fit into the plastic bag.

you can easily get at least 4 or 5 3 oz containers into a qt/litre baggie. But since few travel sized toiletries are as big as 3 full ounces, you actually can put many more things in. My demo gets more than 20 items in the baggie from very small like shout wipes, nail polish remover pads, packets of woolite, lip gloss, mascara, etc -- to .5-1.5 oz facial creams, toothpaste, eye drops etc -- to 2-3 oz hair gel, mouthwash, body butter, shaving foam . . . .

Most people don't need a fraction of those items - but I use them as a demo just to show the possibilities.

Hi Janis. My bag contains the smallest possible sizes of shower gel, shampoo, conditioner, toothpaste, cleanser, toner, eye cream, moisturiser, body lotion, hairspray, mascara & lip salve; it's only enough for 2-3 nights & I struggle to seal it.

So am I to understand that you can stuff that little quart size bag to the gunnels as long as you follow the guidelines? From what I read, it only has to be sealed. I can seal mine but it looks like Santa after a few too many eggnogs. It doesn't need to be flat?

No it definitely doesn't need to be flat. But everything must fit inside. I've always zipped mine closed - but don't know if that is absolutely necessary. I would though, just to make sure everything stayed inside.

The last few European airports I've been through -- they had staff along the security queue handing out baggies if anyone needed them. They were not zip lok - just simple plastic bags w/ a small flap but no closure.

Thanks Janis. What a relief! Now excuse me as I see what else I can squeeze into my baggie...

Those of you who'd like to optimize use of your toiletries (or other liquids) allotment may want to consider the following options:

1. Ziploc bags. Yes, I know, you're already using a ziploc bag, but that doesn't mean that you can't use another ziploc bag (a smaller, sandwich or snack-size one would likely suffice) for something like lotion or shampoo or conditioner. Re-sealable, and because the bag itself takes up almost no room, and you can squish all the excess air out there's no virtually no "dead space" to consider.

2. Test tubes. Test tubes, you ask? Yep, test tubes. Those of us with access to laboratories have already figured out that they are lightweight and sturdy (the plastic sort, not glass, though they're also pretty durable), and come with variety of very reliable closures (stoppers, screw-on, etc.). They also come in lots of different sizes, so you can pick the size you need for the application: 30 mLs for three shampoos (5 mLs is a teaspoon, so that's plenty), 5 mLs for a week's worth of undereye cream, etc.

but if I transfer my product to a non-labeled container, such as, a test tube, plastic bottle, etc., how do I prove to security that it is less than 3 oz?

Julie

I love the thought of packing light - my problem is the books I take. No kidding - I count on at least 1 per day, plus 2-3 for going, and another 2-3 for coming home. One of my favorite pleasures is reading a book while in the area it's about - think about the enjoyment of sitting on a temple platform in the Forum reading about the plot to kill Caesar, or sitting in the gardens at Versailles reading a chapter or 2 of "Abundance". Then, there's bedtime and mealtime reading. Well, you get the point! On a recent cruise I learned it was not de rigeur to read your book at the black jack table while the dealer is shuffling!

Julie_Hurst: &quot;<i>but if I transfer my product to a non-labeled container, such as, a test tube, plastic bottle, etc., how do I prove to security that it is less than 3 oz?</i>&quot;

As long as each container is 3 oz or less, that is all that matters. Each one doesn't need to be labled &quot;2.3 oz&quot;, &quot;.75 oz&quot;, etc.

Believe me - they are looking a thousands of tiny containers every single workshift - they can spot ones that are too big.

And even IF they don't think your container is w/i the limit - the worst that will happen is you'll lose about 3 oz of something you can replace at your destination (or even airside)

Momofrajah, I'm also a book addict. But instead of taking all the books with me, I take one and buy more as I go along (typically giving the one I've finished to somebody I've met). And so now you're thinking, well, how am I going to find books while I'm traveling in Europe? Especially books in English if I only read in English?

Well, that's actually not too difficult, at least if you're visiting a good-sized city. And it's a great way to learn a bit about local history and authors. Just go into a decent-sized bookstore, ask if they have any local authors in English (not original English books, though they'll likely have those as well), and they'll set you up. Clerks in bookstores (in the U.S. as well as Europe) love to talk about books, and love to show you which ones are the very coolest.

I do usually come home with a few more books than I left with.

&quot;but if I transfer my product to a non-labeled container, such as, a test tube, plastic bottle, etc., how do I prove to security that it is less than 3 oz?&quot;

As janisj points out, Julie, security is very good at eyeballing the volume of small containers, and a 30 mL container is very obviously smaller than a 100 mL (about 3 oz) container.

But as it turns out you don't even have to worry about possible arguments over the issue, as plastic test tubes and similar containers are almost always labeled as to their volume (some of them in 1 or 5 mL graduations), as of course the staff who work in laboratories need to know the volumes of their equipment.

&lt;&lt;Yes, I know, you're already using a ziploc bag, but that doesn't mean that you can't use another ziploc bag&gt;&gt;

It does if you are carrying on as only one quart size bag is permitted for liquids and gels. I use others for non liquid items.

&quot;It does if you are carrying on as only one quart size bag is permitted for liquids and gels. I use others for non liquid items.&quot;

I'm afraid you've missed the point here, kfusto. The other ziploc bag would fit inside the first one: you'd put an ounce or so of whatever toiletry you'd need in the other bag, zip it shut so as to exclude as much air as possible, and then fit it inside your official toiletries bag.

Note that this technique does, in fact, break the rule about container volume, as most commercially available ziploc bags will contain, when full, more than 3 oz/100 mL. But then of course so does that first ziploc bag, and any other ziploc bags that you might be using. Heck, you can bring along gigantic two gallon ziploc bags, and if 10 of your terrorist buddies got on the same plan, and all of them handed off their supposed toiletries (really bomb-making liquids, of course) you could whip up a really gigantic bomb, right?

And if you wanted a rigid container, you could just bring along one that contained a solid or powder, like baby powder. You can get pretty large containers of baby powder that would work just fine.

I saw a ready-to-pack kit at Bed Bath &amp; Beyond for $9.95 that had more than a dozen empty perfect sized containers in the 1 QT ziplock, even with sticky labels. For newbies or people confused or intimidated about this issue, seems an easy solution.

suze, post a link to that product if you can find it---I looked on the Bed Bath &amp; Beyond web site and couldn't find it, but they may not offer it on line.

I've seen some other kits that didn't quite work, as the bottles were too big (so not enough of them for us high-maintenance sorts). I rarely need 3 oz of anything, so I end up with too much dead space.

And then there's the issue of my typically wanting to throw away my left over toiletries at the end of the trip (ideally this is minimal, as I've figured out how much I'm likely to need) so as to maximize space for purchases made en route. If I've splashed out $10 on the containers I'll want to keep them, whereas test tubes cost pennies a piece.

Oh, and another cool thing about test tubes et al.: many of them include a frosted, opaque area on the surface so that you can easily write on them with a Sharpie and thereby distinguish your shampoo from your conditioner, etc. You can write on the ones without the frosted bit as well, but they're not as easy to read, and not as water-resistant.