On looking "American"
 

There have been a couple of threads lately about people worried about looking like an unsophisticated American when traveling in Europe, as if that were something to be ashamed of. I had an interesting conversation recently with my next door neighbor, who is originally from France. I have always been somewhat in awe of him, being from the land of my fantasies, until he brought me down to Earth when I asked why he would leave paradise to live in Suburbia, U.S.A. What followed was a half hour rant about plumbing, telephones, service, groceries, roads, drivers, hygiene and a few other things in French that I didn't catch. He ended up with something to the effect of "it's paradise allright, fool's paradise." I guess I won't worry about my white tennies anymore!

The grass is always greener on the other side - I wouldn't worry about the white tennies one way or the other. :-)

Same story from my transplanted French friend. While Americans complain about having no (vacation) time, he said the French have plenty of it -- but no money to do anything. He was able to come to the U.S. and earn the money he wanted, then complain about having no time, like the rest of us!

It is all about personal preferences. I have Dutch friends who went to the US and are happy there, and I have American friends who live here in Amsterdam and are happier here. <BR>Let's forget about the stereotypes. Wear what you want as long as you respect local cultures. Be nice to the people at home and abroad. Be open to people who do things differently.

noname: to each his own, I always say! Isn't it wonderful! Ess: I <BR>agree with the grass is always greener motto......ya never know? <BR>Judy ;-)

Many of the threads about "looking American" were really more about fear of being robbed / pickpockted / accosted. I'm sure some posters will say that those are legitmate concerns - and they are - but so many of the posts border are paranoid I wonder how these people enjoy their trip while on it. No wonder they have to take pictures to look at when they get home because they're being ever vigilant against that roving group of gypsie children. <BR>Of course there are also the fashionistas - AKA: the fashion police. They want to appear sophistcated - read elitest. They go on their 2 week vacation throwing airs of being of so sophicticated (I never wear jeans! Tennis shoes? What are those?) then go back to their middle class suburban life. I don''t have a problem with suburban life - what I have a problem with are people who put on airs. I've been around crass crude well-to-do educated people and I have been around poor dignified people - I've also been around dignified well-to-do people and appalling trash ( who are quite interesting in a peverse sort of way ) <BR>As numerous posters have said - politeness will work its magic whether you're wearing Prada or white tennis shoes.

Found this wonderful quote of John Adams in David McCullough's brilliant new biography. In response to a young man's query as to what sort of manners he should cultivate prior to a European trip, Adams said: <BR> <BR>"..permit me to take the liberty of advising you to cultivate the manners of your own country, not those of Europe. ...the more decisively you adhere to a manly simplicity in your dress, equipage, and behavior, the more you devote yourself to business and study, and the less to dissipation and pleasure, the more you will recommend yourself to every man and women..whose friendship or acquaintance is worth your having or wishing. There is an urbanity without ostentation or extravagance which will succeed everywhere and at all times. ...I know that some younger gentlemen have come to Europe with different sentiments and have consequently injured the character of their country as well as their own."

Short of growing a beard, shaving my head, and dressing up like a man from Saudi Arabia, I don't know what I could do to disguise my national origins. <BR>Also, I don't know what my wife could do short of similar extreme measures. <BR>One day we were hiking in the Swiss Alps. During a breathing pause we were standing off to the side of the trail. Another hiker passed us from behind. As we walked past, he said in English to my wife, "Your pack is unfastened." I don't think he could have heard us talking because he was moving right along. <BR>But somehow he knew without much doubt that she was an American. <BR>She had on hiking boots, hiking slacks made of a quick drying material that is commonly seen in hiking centers, an ordinary blue shirt, and a black Seattle Sombrero that she got from LL Bean. Her pack is a standard black day pack. Was it the hat? <BR>In build, my wife is 5'9" and around 140 pounds. So I don't know.

If you want to look like a European just wear one of those riduculous "Banana Hammock" bathing suits. Fat guys in bikini briefs - a truely European look!

What is looking American? My rule of thumb is wear what I wear to work on dress down Friday's. I love Europe and respect the culture of every country but we read so much on this thread of dressing American. Would you wear tennis shoes, black socks, shorts and a t-shirt to the mall? If you do wear it in Europe and you'll be a dumb --- in both countries.

Hey Mikeycora, <BR> <BR>Boy that was close! But for my white socks instead of black, I guess I'd be just another dumb*ss (although I rarely go to a mall--guess I'm not ready for that heightened level of intellectual endeavor yet).

I think it's not about American, it's about tasteless. Americans have a greater degree to tolerance for this then Europeans, though...

YS, <BR> <BR>Is there a universal handbook of tastefulness? If so, I must have missed that. When fashion becomes a value, I think we're all in trouble.

Chuck, <BR> <BR>Tastefullness can not be tought; it has to be sensed. It also depends on one's perseption, culture and background, but there are some more or less common things... for example, you may not want to wear blue bright pants and and bright green sweater. Simplest exmplanation - it just doesn't look good, but theoretically we can talk about the harmony of colors and the implications that they have on one's ability to recognize and distict colors and hot this ability affects the brain...

THIS tired old CRAP again !!!!! <BR>Wear whatever you like, others don't like it ? Tough Shit.

I don't think the original poster intended fashion to be the gist of this thread- It seems to be more about the more sophisticated than thou attitude copped by some Europeans.

noname, to be sure, many people from various European countries choose to move to the United States. (But I'm equally sure that quite a few U.S. citizens choose to move to various European countries.) Just because your French neighbor prefers the U.S. to his homeland hardly means that's the prevailing attitude among French people. We all value different things in different ways. <BR> <BR>Personally, I'm not ashamed of looking like an American. I just prefer to *try* to look as least like a tourist as possible in order to, hopefully, not be such an obvious target for pickpockets.

Noname- That reminds me of a conversation I had once with a colleague from India. He was well educated, spoke several languages, and could have lived anywhere in the world he chose. When I asked him why he lived in the rude, crude, violent U.S. instead of the land of my lust (Europe) he looked at me like I just sprouted another head. He told me something like "it's important and interesting to study the past, but I don't want to live there. The future is in the Americas and the East." When you think about it, isn't that why most Americans go to Europe? If it wasn't for the history, it would lose a lot of it's appeal, for me anyway. I guess the moral of the story is, don't worry about what those snooty ol' Europeans think, they're not exactly playa's on the world scene anymore anyway.

Just as I wouldn't bring a box of Nutrigrain bars to eat for breakfast in Paris, I wouldn't bring my trainers to wear in Milan. Just because it's familiar and comfortable, doesn't mean it's inherently better. If we choose to spend our hard earned American dollars to eat and live for just a few weeks as a European, why not dress like one and truly try to blend in? It doesn't mean you're embarassed by your homeland. It's just another way to enjoy your holiday. None of should have to apologize for immersing ourselves in the host country's culture in how we eat, drink, or dress.(And be still, those of you ready to jump on the 'camera and language' argument. If you just walk quiety down the street and soak up the city, you can blend in as much as you like.) If you dress like you do at home, that's your choice. But hold your tongue rather than mocking those travellers who put some thought into their appearance. It's just one more facet of their memorable trip.

One thing is that when Americans travel, they want everything to be "American" -- the false friendliness, the gulped down dinners and lunches, the casual attitudes, and the prevailing idea that "everyone speaks English, they just don't WANT to." Americans look at Europe as a huge Epcot Center, and treat it as such. <BR> <BR>Is life better in the US? Yes and no -- sometimes it's nice going out in sweats, but it's also nice to get a little "dressed". Sometimes all you want is a quick meal, but sometimes it's nice to sit down and enjoy the food (but then again, not all American food is all that enjoyable, so the faster you gulp it down, the less you notice how bad it is). Service wise? Gee, in France your prescription is filled when you hand in your request (no "when do you want to pick it up?", or "it'll take an hour"). A pharmacist applied bandages to my blisters (didn't just take my money and tell me to have a nice day). Stores have been turned upside down to find the right color, size, etc. <BR> <BR>And if you're h*ll bent on being "American" wherever you go, you miss out on some of what makes other countries great -- tourist menus are always more expensive and the food is tailored to "American tastes." Though I will grant you, there are some "local" dishes that aren't making it past these eyes... :-0 <BR> <BR>And Americans are seen as stomping anyone that gets in their way -- from the political people down to the tourists. Most European countries have been invaded at one time or another (and many times) and are fierce about protecting their identities and cultures -- Americans are so diluted now (everyone's a "something-American"), Americans have to fall back on being the "biggest", "richest", etc. And tourists' attitudes reflect that. <BR> <BR>Ashamed to be American? No, but I am ashamed of the stereotypes that American tourists perpetuate.

Last line should have read, "I am ashamed of the stereotypes SOME American tourists perpetuate."

<BR> <BR>I'm an American who has lived in England for almost 15 years now. I prefer it here in many ways, but weighing all the pros and cons, I'd say there's nothing like being on your own turf. It means more than you ever realize before you emigrate. <BR> <BR>Your own country might be crappy, but it's YOUR OWN!" <BR>

If the grass is really greener, you'd better not wear white sneakers - those grass stains are impossible to remove.

There is only one way to avoid dressing/looking like an American. Take nothing in your suitcase except underwear. Wear one set of clothes on the plane. As soon as you land head to the nearest clothing store and buy a whole new wardrobe. Then head to the shoe shop and buy a couple pairs of shoes. Then over to the hairdresser for a new do. If you wear glasses then visit the optical shop and get some nice Euro style frames and lenses. Finally, make sure that your accessories have the Euro look as well (watch, rings, ear rings, etc)..if not then buy all new. Now, you should have the Euro look. Just remember to never speak (pretend that you are mute) so that no one can ever hear your obvious American accent. There now you will fit in and no one will ever, ever know that you are a low life scum sucking American tourist.....

Response to wanderlust: Then please hold your tongue about your fashion choices regarding shoes, clothes, etc. People who take time to type posts about their clothes and how special it makes them feel must have personalities that are like black holes - look at me, notice me, want me, admire me. By your mid 20's you should have a certain amount of common sense when it comes to dress - if you have to go on and on about it then you never will blend in - even if wearing black from head to toe. Find something worth giving time and attention to - fashion is for simple minded, vacuous individuals. People who talk about fashion are more lame than people who talk about politics.

Just a question - here you are at the colleseum in Rome standing amongst several hundred tourists, most of whom are Americans and the temperature is in the upper eighties - you are dressed like a "local" in dark pants, dark shirt, heavy leather shoes with cool sunglasses - everyone else is in shorts, light sport shirt and white tennis shoes (maybe cool sunglasses) - who do you think sticks out??????

If I saw Sophia Loren walk close by, I might stick out. :~)

To NoSpam: <BR>Yes Americans do want a piece of home when they travel and don't always think about where they are. (Which I think is unfortunate and frankly, a waste of money.) <BR>However, that is human nature as European's and Japanese act the same way. For example, in the Canary Islands I saw plenty of restaurans that catered to the national taste of the visitors, English pubs, German food, etc and <BR>Japanese eating Japanese food in Hawaii and in NY. <BR>Other tourists, Americans included, want to enjoy the local culture and enjoy the difference. The contrast between the two types is one of personality, not national origin. <BR> <BR>If you think I'm mistaken, go to Disney World and count the Brits in "Football Jersey's."

Monty Python's Eric Idle does a very funny bit poking fun at British people on vacation. <BR> <BR>Idle's character (ranting to a travel agent about package tours)... <BR> <BR>"Yes, you're quite right, I'm fed up with being treated like a sheep, I mean what's the point of going abroad if you're just another tourist carted round in buses, surrounded by sweaty mindless oafs from Kettering and Boventry...in their cloth caps and their cardigans and their transistor radios and their 'Sunday Mirrors', complaining about the tea, 'Oh they don't make it properly here do they not like at home' stopping at Majorcan bodegas, selling fish and chips and Watney's Red Barrel and calamares and two veg...and sitting in their cotton sun frocks squirting Timothy White's suncream all over their puffy raw swollen purulent flesh...cos they overdid it on the first day'! And being herded into endless Hotel Miramars and Bellevueses and Bontinentals...with their modern international luxury roomettes and draft Red Barrel and swimmingpools...full of fat German businessmen pretending they're acrobats, forming pyramids and frightening the children and barging in the queues and if you're not at your table spot on seven you miss the bowl of Campbell's Cream of Mushroom soup,...the first item on the menu of International Cuisine,...and once a week there's an excursion to the local Roman ruins to buy cherryade and melted ice cream...and bleedin' Watney's Red Barrel, and one evening you visit the so-called typical restaurant with local colour...and atmosphere and you sit next to a party of people from Rhyl who keeps singing 'Torremolinos, Torremolinos', and complaining about the food, 'It's so greasy here isn't it!' and you get cornered by some drunken greengrocer from Luton with an Instamatic and Dr Scholl sandals and Tuesday's 'Daily Express' and he drones on and on and on about how Mr. Smith should be running this country and how many languages Enoch Powell can speak and then he throws up all over the Cuba Libres...and sending tinted postcards of places they don't realise they haven't even visited, 'to all...at number 22, weather wonderful...our room is marked with an "X". Food very greasy but we found a charming little place hidden away in the back streets, where they serve Watney's Red Barrel and cheese and...

Thank you, Capo for Eric's rant -- I've been wanting a written copy of it for years; it's priceless! <BR>As for the dress issue, I'm surprised, I don't think you can generalise, really. I've seen plenty of German tourists in shorts and loud tee-shirts and sneakers, and often can't tell an American until they open their mouths. <BR>If you want to feel disoriented, try the experience of having everyone take you for the wrong nationality. I've travelled in Europe for years, and been greeted in French (which I hardly speak) in Germany, Austria and the Netherlands. This year I finally got to Paris, and for four days people were asking me directions, in halting or fluent French. I dress plainly, am not fashionable, am definitely American, so I find this mystifying and funny. You never can tell.

You're very welcome, Carla. Always nice to meet another Monty Python aficonado! <BR> <BR>I actually condensed the skit, "Travel Agent", a bit. If you're interested, here it is in its glorious entirety... <BR> <BR>http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/finalripoff.htm#Travel

Carla- A co-worker of mine appearantly looks British to Irish eyes. He is often snubbed only to recieve profuse appologies when he starts to speak with his heavy Southern drawl!

Mark - <BR> <BR>I read your message and you sound as if you have your own airs to contend with. I enjoy reading info on this board for what it is meant to be -helpful.

To nospam1: I agree! Our good French friends who we did a home exchange with a few years ago told us ... "you have the future, we are weighed down with the past". This last trip to France made it very clear. <BR> <BR>As Elvira said on another thread, we Americans *smile*. And for good reason. We are happy. We tolerate a broader range human behavior than many europeans, particularly the "sophisticated" French, who can't seem to get past their class and ethnic issues. With them, things have to be *just so*. Try travelling there with two teen age boys! <BR> <BR>As an aside, T & I noticed that the French don't do much with their teen-age children. We didn't see families with teens out together in Paris. A few in the country, but it was unusual. As you might imagine, our little family pod was the subject of much attention. <BR> <BR>To nospam2: I don't quite relate to the stereotype of the demanding Americans abroad, although I am sure there are examples of that kind of behavior. I just didn't see it. The Americans I saw in Paris were trying to blend in as much as possible. I even overheard a young woman tell her friend at an open market, "well, o.k., then. I'll be quiet". Talk about having to adjust to an external set of expectations to just be able to walk throught a market! It was funny, that afternoon I was mistaken for a French "du sud" because I made a few hand gestures when it started to rain. That was too funny. <BR> <BR>Many nationalities can and do display loutish behavior. It's unfortunate that to a great degree, Americans are tagged as the worst examples. <BR> <BR>We have SO much to be proud of. I came back happy with the memories, and very glad to be back in the land of Aloha. <BR> <BR> <BR>

This is a bit of a tangent... <BR> <BR>There was an article in this past Sunday's Seattle Times (written by Ray Moseley of the Chicago Tribune) entitled "WHO rates France's health system No. 1" <BR> <BR>It notes... <BR> <BR>The World Health Organization (WHO) in Geneva rates national health systems by a variety of criteria, and on all scales France is among the world's leaders. In overall performance - relating achievement to expenditure - France ranks No. 1 in the world, the U.S. 37th. All 15 nations of the European Union, with similar systems, fare better than the U.S. in the WHO ratings - even Britain, with its chronically underfunded system.

"we Americans *smile*. And for good reason. We are happy. We tolerate a broader range human behavior than many europeans" <BR> <BR>Come on! This is bullsh*t talk. I don't think you even believe this. <BR>

C'mon j: At least I sign my name. I was born in Europe. I lived abroad for most of my life, and studied in France and Italy as a college student. I did graduate work in European Languages, and have returned to Europe every few years or so. Nevetheless, I believe in everything I said. Granted there are a LOT of regional differences within the USA, but I have never been prouder of being an American than after this last trip. :)

Kalena, I respect your perspective, since you've spent a lot more time in Europe than I have but, nevertheless, I disagree with your assertion that Americans "tolerate a broader range [of] human behavior than many europeans". <BR> <BR>Yes, we Americans have a lot to be proud of. But I also think that pride can, and does, slide into arrogance.

It is not about the clothes or the pickpockets--it's about assuming things about us-It kind of annoyed me that they assumed I wanted a coke with dinner--My father is German and I will always be American-- but I like water with gas!!-I didn't like being pointed at and being called American in a snide way in Italy by some old man--I don't do that to vistors here.I know how they did it--deductive reasoning!! I was in a tourist town but I didn't dress a dorky like the German tourists,I didn't dress like a Brit and I was obviously not Italian in syle or attitude. However a classy Italian lady approached me outside the laundry and asked me directions in Italian so .. You can change you clothes but sometimes not your looks and attitude-- so learn the language(Cuss words) and really shock them. And just remember when you see a German tourist with those short shorts and white legs and dorky Adidas shoes not to make fun of them so they can hear!!

Right on, noname. It's the assumptions and snide comments that get a little tiring. We heard them too, even though we were given high marks for *la politesse." <BR> <BR>Our very American looking but well behaved teen age boys were the definite give-away. And sad to say, they were a bit put off, because they do not treat visitors to our state that way. <BR> <BR>On the plus side, we visited the Norman Invasion Beaches on June 6, the anniversary of the invasion. There were many Americans there on that date, and of course, the experience was deeply moving. Many French people also came on that day to pay their respects. Their quiet acknowledgement and respect was genuine and quite touching.