OK Fodorites, what are some ways of spending less money in France or Spain on a 2 week trip to offset the weak dollar? This is meant to be constructive and not a whining session over our ever plummeting dollar!
 

Besides the picnics in the parks, what other suggestion do you all have to economize in Europe?

So why did you bring up "our ever plummeting dollar!" in your question?

Oops! Im bad. Sorry! Anideas though?

1.Don't eat breakfast at your hotel in France.
2. Visit Museums on free days or search for free museums.
3. Churches are beautiful and free; often there are free or inexpensive concerts. If the concerts cost money, stand outside the church door and listen for free. Or, go to Vespers.
4. Avoid cafes. Buy a bottle of wine and sit on a park bench to people watch.
5. Do your own walking tours with guidebooks you get from your library.
6. Don't buy souvenirs.
7. Cemeteries are also free and very interesting. Make a list of all the famous people's graves you want to see.

Don't go to Paris, Barcelona or Madrid. See some of the smaller, less touristed cities and towns instead.

They're wonderful and cost less.

I'm going to Lyon in May. Using the 'bon weekend en ville' plan I'm staying 3 nights for 109 euro in a 2 star hotel.

I was in Lyon last spring, and believe me it's certainly not a podunk little town. After this trip I may decide that I prefer Lyon over Paris.

If driving, I think the gas at the Intermarche' is cheaper than at many other stations. We made a point of trying to fill up when we saw one. I am glad this question was asked. If we put our heads together and come up with "strategies" I think most of us will realize that travelling overseas is still a good possibility.

Do as the Europeans do: stay in inexpensive B&Bs. You could find some really nice places for about 30-40 euros per person, double occupancy.

Stay a bit further away from the center of town, but close to a metro/bus/trolley stop. Spending ten to twenty minutes on a bus or metro can get you considerable savings in room rates.

Eat less. Don't expect American portions. Drink more wine - you'll feel better! :)

Instead of France and Spain, go to the Central European, Baltic, Mediterrean countries that will join the EU in 2004. Cheaper.

Circumnavigate Notre Dame Cathedral instead of going in, you save the entrance fee! :) ..... there are plenty of ways to save money, just don't forget to have fun!

You think you've got it rough-try travelling in Ozzie dollars!! We try to have carpet picnics for dinner and cheap lunches everywhere. Dinner is usually a more expensive meal than lunch. Find a good deli and buy supplies and a bottle opener. Eat where office workers eat their lunch.

If I were that desperate to cut costs after doing all that has been suggested, I'd quickly find a native and get very friendly with him/her. So friendly, in fact, that he/she invites me to stay at his/her house/apartment for a day/week/month, with free meals to boot. Some might consider this a whimsical concept, but I have done it and enjoyed it beyond my wildest expectations.

Don't worry over the cost of the trip so much; several months after it's over, the total cost will be taken care of, and the memories will be what you hold on to. I don't mean to be flip; it's what I've always found to be true. A few hundred dollars in the scheme of things really won't make that big a difference in the long run.

And while that's true, I also agree with the posts that say that it's not so hard to keep costs down.

1)Find a less-expensive hotel. Even in Paris, it's not so hard to do that. Try the suggestions in the budget guides (I used Frommer's budget guide 12 years ago and the place was small but comfortable).

2)Don't eat in expensive restaurants. I've always found it pretty easy to find decent places at modest prices; again, try budget books like Lonely Planet, Let's Go, and others, but also, just follow your own nose and go into places that look less "touristy".

3)Definitely buy food in stores and in markets! That is part of the fun of travelling, too! We generally ate lunch in picnic form, and it was always fun, finding a place to eat. I LOVE shopping in outdoor markets; it's entertainment in its best form, and so much fun to participate in.

Go in the off season. October or November. This will give you some extra time to save up for the trip. You'll save on hotels and best of all there won't be as many tourists. Plus the weather in Spain is great that time of year.
Take the train instead of renting a car.
Spain has some wonderful little hotels that are inexpensive.

Excellent suggestions from everyone. In sum, stay out of the big cities, stay at B&Bs, don't eat breakfast if you're paying for it as part of a hotel/B&B package, have a crêpe or sandwich for lunch, drink wine instead of soft drinks, stay off the toll routes, use museum free days for museum visits, rent a diesel car for better mileage, get your gas at supermarkets (may not work, as in France, e.g., U.S. credit card PIN nos. don't often work), have picnic lunches, go in off season, use your ATM card for the best exchange rate, and most of all, enjoy the myriad free things that Europe has to offer - incredible views, ancient buildings and churches, fabulous markets, lovely pedestrian areas in cities. There is so much beauty at every turn in Europe that is free for the taking. When I went to Europe as a young student without money, I was still dazed with wonder at the beauty around every corner. Think like that, and you can make any trip a bargain, even with the lousy exchange rate.

There is more to France than Paris. Visit the rest of the country and stay in Logis de France for minimal prices. The web site (in English) is http://www.logis-de-france.fr/uk/index.htm

The Gites de France are another possibility. http://www.gitesdefrance
You can rent a gite (small rental house or apartment) for a week for next to nothing, cook most of your meals there after shopping very inexpensively at local markets (and enjoying a very French experience) and take the bus, train or hike.

We've camped in France and it's wonderful. (We're in our 60s, not college kids!) Almost all French campgrounds have a nice and inexpensive little restaurant on the grounds or you can cook. You really meet French people that way too.

For goodness sake, stay off the expensive toll autoroutes. Take the back roads. You'll drive through charming villages and gorgeous countryside. Remember all those pictures of tree lined country roads? They really exist in the 21st century and are every bit as charming as the photos. An added bonus is very little traffic.

Take pictures for souvenirs or buy things you need anyway, like towels, linens, dishes, etc.

You can have a wonderful time in France and not spend much more than the air fare. You do have to spend money to live at home!

Go and have quiet fun . . . long walks, free concerts, art in churches, enjoy the architecture, watch an artist, listen to street musicians, drink tap water, skip a meal or two. It's easy and it's lots of fun.

All - well, at least most - of the above ideas sound reasonable. Let me also offer something that may provide some comfort.
In Paris late November/early December '03 we noticed that prices at restaurants seemed to have actually decreased. When we inquired of a friendly owner about this, she replied that many places had reduced their prices in order to attract American tourists who were wary of the plummeting dollar/rising euro.

Not sure when you are going, or where you are departing from but have you looked at the packages to Paris from gotoday.com? I saw this on MSNBC: The lowest price is $379 from NY to Paris, air AND hotel for 6 nights. Now, you will not be at the Ritz for this price, but hotel upgrades are available if you want something more luxurious. This price is good through February, please read the restrictions carefully on the website - to get this rate you must depart on a Tuesday or Wednesday, and the price does not include taxes (add about $130, but it is STILL a great rate.) A similar package is available in March for $439 (+ tax). Also, I have heard that octopustravel.com also has excellent air/hotel packages and that you can book through March for about $375 (again, add the taxes)

1. Stay a week or more at destination and rent apartment instead of using hotels. Then take day trips from that base.

2. Buy food from supermarkets and eat some meals at the apartment and pack lunches.

3. Never use taxis. Get transportation passes (such as Paris Carte Orange) and use Metros and buses.

4. Walk a lot. No better way to learn and get the true feel of an area.

5. If you are a Coca Cola Light freak like me, buy it by the 6 pack at the supermarket for 2.29 euros instead of paying 2.50 per can.

6. Use e-mail instead of telephones to call home and make reservations for next destination.

7. When in big cities look for cafeterias in department stores for cheap lunch.

8. When choosing hotels use chains such as Accor (Mercure, Novotel, Ibis) or Best Western and book on web for discount rates and also frequent guest programs can get you fee nights.

9. Always use the same airline, book on the web for discount fares, get their credit card linked to f.f. program and use the card for all purchases at home and abroad. The points due add up to free trips.

10. In France buy a special fare card. If you are over 60 get a "Senior Carte" and all rail trips will be at least 25% off and very often 50% off. It's cheaper than a RailEurope pass.

11. Check each city for their version of a tourist card with discounts on museums, transportation, restaurants etc. As previously suggested find out what days the museums are free.

12. Always visit tourist office to find out what special events are taking place. Example: Weeks before Christmas I visited lots of Christmas Markets in Monte Carlo, Nice, Nimes, Lyon and Paris. Lots of good cheap regional foods at the food stands.

13. Always travel light. That way you need no help from anyone requiring tips and can use public transportation.

14. Take a china cup, little immersion heater, jar of good instant coffee then buy a .65 euro baguette and a cheap jar of preserves and breakfast is taken care of for practically nothing per day. Breakfast at the hotel won't amount to much more and will cost you 7 euros or more.

15. Visit street markets for good but cheap meals and food items to take back to hotel or apartment.

There are lots of things you can do to reduce costs now that the dollar is so weak. 18 months ago the Euro was .82 on the U.S. dollar and now it is 1.27. That means things cost 45% more now than 18 months ago in Europe. You have to find ways to overcome that if you want to travel as often as I do.

Larry J

Excellent ideas!!!! I also read about an idea in Frommers where you contact a hotel and offer them free English tutorials for their staff in exchange for room and board. This might be possible if you had the time and were in one place for an extended period of time. It would take some work but you might find a hotel that might be willing to offer something.

maletas,
I'm so glad you asked this question. I've enjoyed these travel tips not only to save money but heighten the enjoyment of a trip.
I like Lyndie's idea about eating lunch where office workers eat. I always skip the restaurant portion of the guidebooks. I don't like being bothered spending my vacation time searching out an address to a restaurant.
Buy one souviener. Make it a really good one and spend some bucks on it. You'll find that in the end it will be money better spent then all the little cheapo ones that eat away at your money and get lost in drawers at home. Face it, how much room do you or your best friend have for another Guadi lizard on your keychain? Another mug? Even if it does say, "Praha Loves Mozart", no one actually needs another mug.

This summer we will be in Europe for approximately 12 weeks. To suggest that the "falling dollar" won't play a part in how we travel would be foolish. Here are a few things we're doing differently this year from our usual long trips in Europe.

1) Staying put in apartments for a week at a time -- considerable savings over our usual hotel routine.

2) I've always done car rentals with Auto Europe and gone the "full coverage" route deciding it was worth the added convenience should we have an accident or problem. This year, we aren't, but relying on the credit card to take over where the insurance leaves off. This will save us a couple hundred dollars total on a couple of rentals. The incovenience of bookwork will be worth it, should we have a problem.

3) Normally we have at least a half-bottle of wine with lunch and a full bottle with dinner. We're planning (well, maybe -- we'll see) to cut out wine for lunch unless it is really a special meal.

4) When booking hotels, no more paying extra for "water view" or "deluxe" room. Sure we prefer those, but we've got to cut somewhere. Besides, we've learned we seldom stand at our hotel window and look out anyway!

5) We're returning to the Amalfi coast for a little over a week. We've toyed with Positano and a couple more nights on Capri. Instead, we're spending five nights on Ischia -- a whole lot cheaper. And when we fly into Naples from London, we're spending two nights on the harbour in Naples for 104 euro per night instead of going over to Sorrento for two nights at the Bellevue Syrene as planned -- more than double the cost. We looked at some beautiful hotels for our 2 nights in Ravello, but instead we've accepted half board (something we normally refuse to do) at the Hotel Parsifal for 155 euro per night -- a fraction of what some of the hotels (where we normally would have stayed) would cost.

6) Here's one that really makes me eat my own words after all the raving I've done for years about splurging for a car service on arrival in London. Since our flat is just a block from the Covent Garden tube station, I think we'll actually take the underground from Heathrow to our flat this year. Gasp!!

Camping comes to mind.

Patrick, what is half board?

If you are flying from the states fly to london or paris, probably you will find cheaper rates, then take a local tour, sort of ten days around europe inlcuding Paris, Amsterdam, Lyon barcelona or wherever you want to go.
They normaly travel by bus and offer unbeatble rates for hotels and food.
You can check in agencies like nouvelles frontier or that sort. You will meet people and have fun.

I strongly recommend B&Bs. Gite de France is what I used. The cost was 35 to 50 euros for a double-occupancy room with its own bathroom with shower (I am reporting this because it is contrary to easytraveler's cost report). This included breakfast, and while the Gite de France rating system seems to be an equivalent of two star hotels for these rooms, they were much more pleasant than hotel rooms. Two years ago, we found a two star hotel for 65 euros a night. Check the Lyon web site. Two star hotel rooms, no matter how small, will include a bathroom with shower.

Hi wsox,

Half board is what was once "Modified American Plan", bkfst and dinner.

Patrick suggests:

>We're planning (well, maybe -- we'll see) to cut out wine for lunch...<

OH, Sure. :S-

Patrick: you could save a bundle on auto insurance if you lease a car. Need to keep the car 17 days or more. The lease agreement covers EVERYTHING - damage to car, theft of car, everything that might happen to the car.

Summer of 2003, some of my family RENTED a car for 15 days and I was leasing another car for 21 days. My lease amount came to less than their rental amount and their insurance coverage was not as comprehensive as mine was.

We both dealt through Europebycar and we're both very happy campers with Europebycar, although I've noticed that AutoEurope is the favorite here on Fodors. Shop around. Oh yes, one more thing, rates for the same car same period differ in different countries.

With the money you save, you can now afford a full bottle at lunch! Cheers!((D))

The apartment idea is a good one - if you stay by the beach during the week instead of the weekend, you can get a good rate, and a lot of places in Spain will negotiate with you on the price. Visiting cities on weekends can also be a bargain - stay bit outside the popular areas, and use public transportation.

Ordering a coffee or drink while standing at a bar is cheaper than the same beverage at a seated table.

You can make your way through southern Spain by visiting bars with "tapas", literally a lid of free snacks that comes with your drink. The farther south you get, the more traditional the practice. Ask around to see what bars give the best ones. Since these are usually fried fish or starchy tidbits, you'll also want to order a side dish or two of something more substantial. Just keep going - after three or four different bars, you'll come to an understanding of Spanish nightlife!

In Paris, don't picnic on park lawns - it's often against the law.

We always had wine in a restaurant while in Paris. Can you really wander around with a wine bottle and drink on a public street there?

Yea, Ira, we'll see about that forgetting wine at lunch. Something tells me that may go by the wayside (especially in Italy).

Yes, easy traveler, I'm very familiar with the savings on the lease plans. We've done it several times. But this year we're only doing car rentals for 7 days, 8 days, and 3 days, separated with having no car. Incidentally, at one point we were thinking about doing an AutoFrance lease for the minumum 17 days changing our itinerary slightly. But guess what? We were actually finding it cheaper to do the same car through AutoEurope as a 17 day rental without the full insurance package than it was to do the 17 day lease. Of course, the longer the lease the better the savings become -- a three month lease we did a couple years ago came out under $20 a day all inclusive!!

The half-board question has now been answered, but the Parsifal, like some other places lets you choose either lunch or dinner in addition to the breakfast on their half-board plan.

As I love cities, the suggestion for skipping them for the countryside is not an option for me. Having said that...

Stay in cheaper hotels (since I don't know your usual choice/standard it's hard to say), take it down a star from what you'd normally pick. Hotels and long distance transporation are percentage-wise where most of your daily budget is spent. Finding a $60/night place instead of a $175/night would sure buy you lots of nice meals!

Stay in each place longer, don't do the 2-days here, train trip, 2-days there thing. I'd choose 1 country and 2-3 towns max. from your original post.

Don't spend money on museum entries, taxis, etc. Do things on foot, sit in the park, watch the people go by (obviously this method isn't for everyone, but since you asked, this works for me, and I don't like museums anyway LOL).

If you drink alot, buy a bottle (wine or alcohol) for your hotel room, and have your own happy hour before you go out to a restaurant.

Don't go shopping. Skip souveniers.

Patrick,
If you put the car rental on a gold card isn't it the same as the insurance?

I have the same question as McGeezer, Patrick. What are you doing differently this year with regard to your car coverage? If you're totally covered on your credit card, as some are, why were you paying the extra to AutoEurope to being with?

I'm totally covered on a credit card, and I rent or lease from AutoEurope several times a year, and even when I have had problems - a broken headlight, a broken side mirror - it's been covered by my credit card and I never had to pay a dime. I never paid extra for NOT being covered on my credit card. I don't understand what you are paying for and why.

Am I missing something here?

Why? Well, call me stupid if you want to. But there was the time in Finland when we backed into a concrete barrier and mashed the rear right corner of the car. When we turned the car in at Ivalo, Finland, the man said we'd have to wait there until they could get someone to come estimate the damage to have us pay or put it on our credit card. We were not free to leave until the damage was estimated and paid for, regardless of what our insurance says or what card we put it on. When I pointed out we took out the full coverage, he changed his story and we were free to go. We never heard another word about it. If we had to stay there and settle, we'd have missed the only bus to the spot we were headed to in Northern Norway, and would have missed our boat the next morning. If we are in Europe for five months and have a problem, I never trusted the idea that my credit card was going to take care of the problem -- if we had one. And I'd have a lot of difficulty providing the required information for payment for damage when I was not at home for weeks and weeks.

Trust me, I'm not the only one who normally took (takes) the full coverage just to be safe and avoid problems. If anyone thinks that you do major damage to the car and your worries are over because you charged it on your gold card -- think again. There's a ton of paperwork and problems involved.

We use the Peugeot lease plan at http://www.peugeot.com/sodexa/en/html/index_ns.html and have had excellent results. They have a small automatic which is good for us since I don't do stick!

We've only had one problem and they were there and had it fixed within 30 minutes and there was no charge.

Gas mileage is quite good and they give you all the info on their web site.

SalB mentioned the automatic transmission.

If you're going to rent a car in Europe, learn to drive a manual transmission at home.

Maybe you can learn from a friend. Maybe you can rent one at home for cheap weekend rate. The cost of the car rental at home to learn would be way less than always renting automatics in Europe. (Though I don't know if you could even rent a stick shift in the US or not.)

Please be careful of using your credit card for car insurance. I understand that it does not cover property damage but only car damage. I've heard of people getting an bill for the propery damage. Please check with Tony at francevoila.com.. His page has given specific info on CC insurance. Check with your CC company as I'd hate to see anyone get nailed with an extra bill when they are trying to save money. I have leased through an Australian leaser(Renault) at cheaper prices than US and Canada by at least 20% with earlybird specials and repeat customer insentives. The price is also in Aussie $ which still has a good exchange rate for Americans. Email if you wish the site. [email protected] I am not associated, just a happy customer.
Gerry

ON the subject of renting cars and presuming the insurance is covered by the credit card, I suggest you be very careful. I found that some countries, one being Italy will not allow this feature. Your credit card company can give you details. It is not the credit card company making these rules, it is the particular country. I did find that the traveler's insurance company Access America has a package that does offer insurance for rental cars. If you are requesting the insurance from the right state, you will get insurance coverage for your rental at a much better rate than the car rental company. Again make sure you ask the right questions when looking for outside rental car coverage.

When traveling thru France check out the Logis de France hotel chain. They range from 1 to 4 stars. We have stayed at many during our travels. Many/most have great restaurants. They are located throughout France with a few in Italy in small towns and large cities. There are thousands in France.
Regarding rental cars using credit cards, read the fine print because Mastercard allows rentals for up to 15 consecutive days while Visa allows up to 30 days.
Patrick,
The LaTorrenella in Sorento was 155 euros for half board last year.

I'm not sure anyone should tell someone to "learn to drive a stick shift" to rent a car in Europe. My husband drives a stick shift but prefers the automatic in Europe. Unless you're pretty fluent in the local language, you are driving on strange roads in a strange car and reading signs in a strange language. He thinks adding the stick shift to this is asking for trouble, especially considering the high accident rate in France (which has vastly improved this past year!).

We get over 40 miles per gallon on our little automatic and that's just fine with us. The European cars get much better mileage than American ones.

We have only leased from Peugeot (and once from Kemwel) and it was very reasonable. Just don't get a big car and you won't pay big bucks. You don't need to feel you have to learn stick shift if you don't use it at home. There are lots of European automatics on the road.

[RENTAL INCLUDES]
* Sales tax as of Booking Date: 11/17/2003
* Unlimited mileage and fire insurance. Liability Insurance for injuries or damages to persons or things outside the vehicle.

********

rootbear

the above is a line taken from a contract brokered by AutoEurope for car rental without CDW (collision insurance). It concerns the 'property damage' of which you speak. Most CC insurance doesn't include it because it is, as you can see, already automatically covered in most instances by the rental company.