Non Rev Stand by Nightmares?!
 

For those of you that are an airline employee or a friend or family member that have experienced difficulties getting to your destination you will appreciate this.

My boyfriend and I have been planning a trip to Turkey for months on a Delta F&F pass. Originally we were flying from Portland to Istanbul via Atlanta on May 20th. Everything looked good until 2 weeks ago! Now all the flights are oversold by 30+1!! As you know, you don't even attempt to fly stand-by when flights are this oversold.

We decided to fly to JFK and THAT looked good until a week ago. Check out our new revised plan to get to istanbul:

Flying out a day on May 18th on another airline due to full flights getting to JFK on May 19th.

May 18th depart Portland, OR at 3:30 on Southwest Airlines and arrive in Salt Lake City that evening.

May 18th Delta to JFK on the red eye arriving at 5:30 a.m. 13 hour layover in New York.

JFK to Amsterdam on Delta arriving at 8:30 a.m. 8 1/2 hour layover in AMS.

Corendon Air to Istanbul arriving at 9:40 at night, May 20th,two days after our departure from Portland!

Due to the fact that Corendon Air does not fly every day from Istanbul we are leaving Turkey 4 days early and staying in amsterdam for several days.

Obviously we are determined to get to Istanbul!

If you have similar nightmare stories please post them!

We will see if it is as much fun trying to get back!

Not meaning to sound flip, because I am truly curious... what would a plane ticket for your trip cost with a normal and civilized itinerary?

They couldn't pay me enough to do all those flights and long airport layovers you describe.

:-)

I agree with you on this one, suze. Must be a student or someone with a lot of time on their hands to spare. I can't imagine losing two days of vacation just to try to get somewhere - with no idea when and how I'll be able to get back. You'd have to PAY ME to do this.

Call it temporary insanity, Suze!

The flight from PDX to Istanbul is about $390 round trip AND we would have flown first class if there were seats open. When we bought the tickets the flights were wide open. A week later they were completely oversold. We had considered buying a ticket but then realized we could get to JFK and then on to Amsterdam and puchace a cheap ticket from AMS to Istanbul because those flights looked good. Amsterdam was an appealing place to spend a few days because I have friends and relatives there.

During our 8 1/2 hr Amsterdam layover my friend is picking me up and we will hang out with him for the day.

Now, 3 days before we leave, the flights from PDX to JFK have filled up so we leave a day early on the red eye.

After doing some further research this morning I have found a Delta red eye from Portland to JFK via SLC so we now only fly on 2 airlines to get to Istanbul.

The trade off with the difficulty in getting there is that we fly first class. I hate flying coach all the way to Europe and 80% of the time I get bumped to 1st class.

Believe me, next year we will do it differently by flying off season rather than on the shoulder.

When we bought the Delta Friends and Family pass we were not told that Delta discontinued the code sharing on other airlines when flying on a pass. That really limits our choices.

I worked for an airline for 5 years so I know the ins and outs of space available travel. That helps a bit.

Cheers!

Starrsville, given these two options which would you take:

1. Fly first class from Portland, OR to Amsterdam for less than $400, leaving at 4:55 on May 18th as opposed to leaving at 6:30 a.m. on May 19th (losing only the one night and 1/2 day in Istanbul on the other end.

2. Fly coach from Portland to Istanbul packed elbow to elbow with your knees crammed into the back of the seat in front of you for $2000 (I checked fares yesterday to see if that was an option).

If I had known two weeks ago that the flights would fill up at the last minute I wouldn't have done it this way. Given our options we have opted for the much more comfortable option.

Cheers!

So I don't understand....

Are there no seats AT ALL or no seats in First Class? For the rest of us, first class is a luxury we can only dream of. (No, wait, I once got a chance to use upgrade certifficates from Winnipeg to Vancouver. Ooh!)

This is the point at which some would make a sarcastic comment about no sympathy for people who get a (relatively (pun!)) free ride. However, in light of the recent United pension decision, and other trends in the airline employment industry... Go for it! Get what you can while you can! God knows it probably won't be there in a few years. You have my support and sympathy.

Air Canada is doing something similar to it's frequent flyers. They introduced "Avenue Rewards" - if the regular seats aren't available, there are a few more for 50% more points. Since either seat quantity is secret, I suspect it is a way to ease into a higher cost for reward travel; with the unfortunate side effect of making us all more cynical and less inclined to want or appreciate bonus travel.

Along with tricks like eliminating code-share, I have to wonder what else Delta is doing? Is it a case of airline passenger counts suddenly picking up dramatically - Is business looking up? Or, are the reduced seat numbers/overbooking a result of reducing the number flights (reducing costs)? If so, what did they plan to do with the 30+ people if most showed up, having paid full fare? If the next flights are full too, then I forsee a PR problem.

Well then I guess it's fortunate I don't know the "ins and outs" so would have bought that ticket for $390 way back when -LOL!!!

Have a great trip, eurotraveller.

eurotraveller, none of the above at this point because evidently this is too weird for me to follow.

Are you saying that YOU PAID $390 for tickets (or passes or whatever) that at present time will take two days to travel to your destination and you have no idea what the return arrangements might be?

You PAID money?

If so, I'll have to bow out of this conversation. You don't want to know my opinion.

Nevermind... I think I'm lost too. But I know it has something to do with how good it is to travel 1st class (of which I have no doubt!!).

I thought it was that for $390 you could have had a normal itinerary at some point in the process, but maybe that's not it either.

I suspect it might help, mentally, to think of this as a relaxed trip to Istanbul, stopping along the way. Given the current state of airline finances I'm suprised that they are even selling those passes at all.

Have a wonderful trip. Istanbul is worth the effort IMO.

Starrville, It takes us a day and a half to get there no matter WHAT we do since we travel from the west coast.

As I said in the original post and as the title states, this is directed to other stand-by travellers that are pass riding.

We have never had trouble heading west bound and we are not terribly worried about what day we come back. I can think of worse things than staying a day or two longer in Amsterdam!

MD, there are no seats on the flights we had originally intended to fly, hence the reason we are flying the redy eye the night before we were scheduled to leave. On the flights we are now booked on there are lots of seats in coach and 1st class. Ahhh, Can't wait!

Cheers!

<As I said in the original post and as the title states, this is directed to other stand-by travellers that are pass riding>

Oh, sorry.

Wow! At 10:55 you called it a "nightmare". Now, it appears I am being chastised for not understanding it's not a big deal after all.

Hmmm...guess this feeble mind really can't follow.

By the way, my feeble mind can't also find the reference that you find so clear - >> As I said in the original post and as the title states, this is directed to other stand-by travellers that are pass riding <<

Happy travels. If Intrepid1 says it's worth the effort, I'm sure it is. Enjoy Istanbul.

But, I am usually not this dense. Did you not say you are leaving a day earlier than plan and leaving Turkey 4 days earlier too?

I have had experience matching up my flight plans with someone traveling on free passes (taxes paid) so have some experience but never anything like this. Best of luck.

When did Delta stop accepting code-shares? Even though I confess that I have started buying nearly all of my tickets due to standby nightmares of the sort (although a flight being oversold has never stopped me from trying and it very often works), I have often made a point of showing up for AF flights with DL flight numbers, because DL has atrocious service -- but good passes. Last time I took AF with a DL pass was about 2 years ago.

Delta lets its employees SELL passes? Used to work for United they fired people who tried that.

If you worked for an airline, you should be aware this is high season for any travel. And if you're not an employee now, you will be very far down on the stand-by list. And since 9/11, there are barely any seats empty on any plane. I think you or the person who supplied the passes have your heads up where the sun don't shine.

By the way, MD, when I worked for United I traveled first class a lot..standby. I don't think I would have attempted, even as an employee, what this person is trying. And believe me, employees do earn these perks. Each employee is given so many passes for friends. These people pay so much per mile (at United). Usually it's about what a coach ticket would cost. I have two passes a friend gave me but I would rather pay and have a confirmed seat. And I would never try to use these passes for Europe during high season!

Hi Kerouak,

Apparently Delta stopped accepting code share in January. Prior to that, you could fly to Europe and hop on a few other carriers to get to your final destination. That isn't the case now, unfortunately.

HB, the employee didn't sell me the pass, Delta did and it is completely legal. I have flown every year in May to Europe and always gotten where I wanted to go. This year is more difficult because of the lack of code sharing.

I didn't start this thread to get flamed. I wanted to hear of creative routes from other pass riders.

As it stands, I am quite happy with my route and and if I can get bumped to 1st class it makes it all worth it! I don't mind going to plan b, c or d to get to my destination. I am a flexible traveller and I keep an open mind.

It is getting to hot in this thread so I am signing off.

Happy Trails!

The passes are called "Friends" and family LOL. DL employees can give them to anyone and then you pay for the flight.

I have used them, but only domestically (I don't have the flexiblity for International travel)

DL does have guranteed space tickets, but you have to be pretty senior to have one (and maybe they don't even give them anymore, my source is retired)

"It is getting to hot in this thread so I am signing off."

Oops! I meant "too".

Whoever the Delta Employee was to get you a Family and Friends ticket will probably be sorry he or she did. You are putting that person's job in jeopardy. The first thing one learns about traveling on a pass or reduced rate ticket is keep a low profile, keep your mouth shut, and don't make waves. What you received is a privilege not a right. Also you don't plan a trip during high travel periods. If you don't like the rules and inconviences that may arise, buy a regular ticket and not embarrass the people who appreciate the pass benefits. Also, if you have not read the rules concerning pass riding, you should do so. The employee will be held responsible for the actions and behavior of the "guest pass rider" and non-compliance with Delta's non revenue policy and procedures can adversely affect the status of the employee. So, don't look a gift horse in the mouth and keep a low profile.

"HB, the employee didn't sell me the pass, Delta did and it is completely legal"

I still don't think I understand. Did the Friend and Family pass come from an employee's ration or can "civilians" (don't know a better word) buy a F&F pass directly from Delta?

If so, how does one do that?

My experiences were with someone flying on American family passes years ago. Things were tight then. I would imagine things would be more difficult now in these very lean (unprofitable) years.

Any active employee or retiree can provide a Family and Friends pass form from their allotment of those passes. The recipient then contacts Delta directly to pay the ticket fees and get the standby confirmation. Arranging a flight then gets done thru an automated telephone "pass line".
You are right--seats to many favorite destinations are very tight or impossible to get-especially if your standby category is low on the standby totem pole. I have been marooned several times due to weather and cancelled flights which crowd ticketed passengers onto the remainning flights.

forgive me for hopping in on this at last minute--

Are you saying that for normally earned Frequent Flyer points, that Delta NO LONGER code shares for International travel?

I have used Delta FF tkts to Paris ( via Air France) and went business class- using up almost all of my saved points for the luxury of business--NEVER, in a million years, could I afford to buy a business class tkt...

IF this is the case with Delta, when did this affect Frequent Flyers?

I have a cousin who works for an airline and he flies STANDBY but Frequent Flyers are booked well in advance and I have never been bumped from a flight....they always call with schedule changes but NOTHING like what Eurotraveller had happen..

What is going on? I used Delta for US travel in April and had no trouble...but I booked the tkts 6 mos prior to when I needed...

I normally don't fly Delta- I normally use USAIR as they are easier to deal with...

Andy, frequent flyer miles and friends and family vouchers are two different things

Just curious, but does anyone know Delta's boarding priority for non-revs? I worked for AA for ages and anyone besides employess and their immediate families had lower priority.

where are the "less popular but still interesting" places Delta goes, directly? anything international sounds like wayyyyy too much trouble.

it may be better to use the passes for something domestic, short and sweet, (and no layovers - reduce your chances of sitting somewhere) and just pay regular fare to go somewhere "exotic".

presumably fuhgeddabout using Delta F&F to Paris, eh?

If you are flying standby you just have to be able to change your plans if need be. We delayed leaving Paris by a day to get on (first class--and free).
And Eurotraveller, you still don't know what those flights are going to look like for your return. Our kids stayed tuned to the internet cafe to check the boarding totals. All the airlines have cut back on numbers of flights so they are flying fuller. And for the US bound flights, the weakness of the dollar is bringing the Europeans to the US on that leg--also full.
Payant, why is the employee in trouble--you give a friend or family member a "buddy pass" and they buy a ticket. I don't think Eurotraveller is going to misbehave on the flight.
As we see, it is not necessarily a big bargain at almost $400--but it is, if they fly first class.
We flew first RT to Paris last year with our daughter. While we were pretty sure to get FC, we weren't cleared for boarding until everyone else had "shown up". And the buddy passes,Friends and Family pases are the last to get cleared and it is by the employee's hire date--at least on CO.
I have had some nightmares trying to get in and out of Denver and have ended up buying a (very reduced fare) ticket on another airline--where you also fly standby to get on.

Peter Greenburg was talking yesterday about catching a sale flight to London and then taking a discount airline to varied sights in Europe. I'd not considered that before.

I must be too old or tired or just stingy with my vacation days to spend hours/days in airports on standby "hope to get on a plane" layovers.

Of course, one would have to switch airports, but I'd rather have confirmed seats. No chance for upgrade to first class - but I know a seat on the plane.

Those passes I was always so envious of don't seem to be as attractive nowadays as they did a decade ago! :-)

Dad has the highest priortiy for stand by with a major airline and it still was a NIGHTMARE just trying to fly domestically....We always purchase tickets now...everyone who upgrades or regular passengers standing by get priority over you and the flights just always seem to be full...When I was a kid, even though his Priority was less, it was much better it seemed and I didn't sit in coach till I was 18 and bought myself a ticket, I didn't even realize you could wear jeans on a flight Iwas so used to dressing up as their policy dictated..Things have changed alot..

Peep-

Delta's stby priorities are very similiar to AA's, and other major airlines. Buddy Passes are second from the bottom in terms of priority, and even then within the buddy pass priority it goes by senority date of the employee. So, yes...they are at the bottom of all the other non-rev stby passengers.

And, realizing "eurotraveller" who started this post is probably on her way right now, and not reading this, I am 100% in agreement with Payant. I fear the employee will regret the day she/he gave a pass to this friend.

For those who are thinking this is a hideous way to travel, it isn't as bad as "eurotraveller" made it out...if you're smart. I have worked with a major airline for 10 years, and because of it have had the benefit of seeing some amazing places I never would have been able to afford otherwise - and yes, traveling in the comfort of a business class seat. My mother is retired from one major airline, I work for another...so I am used to stby travel. It works for me - it doesn't work for everyone.

I rarely go during high season, and I plan for travel on certain days of the week. And...I RARELY give passes to friends, for this very reason, but if I do I am sure to fully explain the process, and carefully help them choose days and flights. Something, it sounds like the employee did not do in this case.

When I used Delta FF miles to fly internationally, I book them 364 days PRIOR to leaving the US and the returns are also booked 364 days prior to coming home...

DELTA ALWAYS runs out of FF seats to Europe- that is why it is soooooooooo
frustrating to use your miles for International travel...

I much prefer USAIR to use their code share flights for International...or else I fly Virgin Atlantic to London IF they have a cheapie sale..then transfer to another cheapy airline to head to Eurupe (mostly British Midland as it flies to Italy- my favorite destination)..

Well, andy, you just gave me the gold at the end of this rainbow! I'm going to look into the London/ British Midland combo when I try to book a reasonable flight to Italy next year. Thanks for the suggestion.

The introduction of Frequent Flyer Clubs pretty much meant the end of Non-Rev Standbyes for airline employees. Those were the days though... I used to have a nervous knot in my stomach every time my wife and I stood-by for flights to Europe.

For those of you criticizing Eurotraveller, try affording a trip overseas on an airline employee salary. We HAD to go non-rev and hope for the best. It was an adventure. You could end up sitting around in an airport for three days when no flights were open or you could maybe end up in First class all by yourself in the Upper Deck of a 747. We once sat up in first with the Seattle Supersonics. Another time we sat across from Hodding Carter and Scoop Jackson. Getting $10,000 worth of airfare for free was a major perk for a 25 year old kid making $20,000 per year back in the late 70's.

erm, Zeus, hate ta tell ya, but the younguns out on the line now are making in the 20s... they don't pay pilots squat starting out. it's criminal.

I have a couple family members who work for airlines and they get paid pretty well for what they do in comparison to many jobs. These folks are hardly someone who need our pity because they are working minimum wage or have no benefits. Why should a 25-year old starting out get paid a very high salary? I don't know any 25-year old in their first professional jobs who get paid tons of money. People are completely unrealistic in terms of what they think they should get paid in comparison to other professions. The people I know who work for airlines can afford vacations in Europe as much as I can or anyone else, but they fly standby because they consider that part of their benefits and have a lot more free time than people in many other jobs.

My nephew works for United and his mother gets to fly standby free on one of those passes. It's cheap, but I think only that useful for expensive trips that she might not be able to afford (to Europe). Otherwise, you can be wasting hours of time to get a free flight worth a couple hundred dollars. I remember once she got to fly standby from Connecticut to COlumbus Ohio and it took her around 8 hours due to a couple connections and layovers.

My nephew works for United

I STILL don't understand why you folks are concerned that this person will get the employee in trouble--what is she doing wrong. The employee could have explained everything to her but until close to the date you NEVER know how the flights will fill up.
And what Frequent flyer "clubs" have to do with it, I have no idea.
And yes, jeans are not acceptable attire. IF you do show up in jeans, you will not get the first class seat that you might have--back to coach with you.
Standby travel is a very nice perk--domestically or internationally. You just have to choose your times. i would never attempt Euope in high season.

Gretchen, let's face it...very FEW people are ever going to "feel sorry" for anyone who is a non-revenue passenger and their so-called "nightmares" since we all know you get what you (don't) pay for sometime.

The post may very well have belonged on the "Whine" board.

If you really BELIEVE that people wearing jeans don't get bumped into First Class I think you need to check out the sale on the new Brooklyn Bridge.

Non rev flyers can get bumped into first class wearing jeans??

Here is a dress code anecdote: I was flying with my kids and one of their friends who was pass-flying becuase her dad works for Delta. She was DENIED BOARDING becuase she was wearing flip flops instead of close-toed shoes! We stepped away from the gate and panicked. We switched shoes- I gave her my too-big tennies and wore her tiny flip flops. (Her dad had warned her about the dress codes but we got lax in Hawaii I guess.)

Intrepid, I don't see ANYwhere I asked anyone to "feel sorry" for non-rev travellers. And the guy sitting next to me in First Class was wearing jeans--but he paid (!). And indeed, people who are big frequent flyers in jeans or not, probably do get bumped into first. Where did I say they didn't. Non-rev flyers in jeans do NOT fly first class. You really need to have some reading comprehension exercise.

I worked for AA for 10 years and flew non-rev loads! The coolest thing is that if you plan carefully, you can do cool stuff like daytrips to Washington DC or wherever, or long weekends to cool places. I flew first class to Hawaii a zillion times (sat next to Stefi Graff once) and also to Europe. It was wonderful!!! Non-reving gives you the freedom to take trips you'd never pay for. It's a blast! I never got stuck anywhere in all those years. Hmmmm...I think I need to go back to work for an airline... :)

When I worked for United, we were responsible for the behavior of the people we gave passes to. And there was a very strict dress code for non-revs. I had fairly low senority and never got first class to Europe, even in low season, off peak days. As for high season, forget even getting a seat! I was very careful to whom I gave passes. Also their fees came out of my paycheck (which was pretty small anyway). And, yes, one is supposed to be low keyed and keep a low profile while travelling on a pass.

Once I took a call from a person trying to get to Hawaii for his best friend's wedding. An employee gave him a buddy pass. The poor guy was stuck on the West Coast with no prayer of getting on one of our very crowded Hawaii flights for days. The employee who gave him this pass was very irresponsible by not advising him of the difficulty in using it.

I don't think eurotraveller works for an airline. I think he/she just wants to brag about his/her escapades. I am putting a curse on her to get only a middle seat in coach surrounded by shrieking children!