Newbie Traveler Questions
 

My wife and I are heading to Europe in October for the first time and have some questions regarding our trip (mainly in regards to transportation). First, our itinerary:
Fly into Munich on Tuesday morning
Take train to downtown and spend day
Take night train (CNL) to Amsterdam
Arrive in Amsterdam on Wed morning
Spend day and night
Take train to airport on Thursday
Fly to Venice Treviso (Basiqair)
Take train/bus to Venice
Spend day and night
Take day train to Garmsich, Germany on Friday
Stay in Garmsich through Monday AM
Take train to Munich airport to fly home

Here are my questions:
-Should we get a rail pass or pt to pt tickets?
-On the CNL, will my wife and I be able to get a private double in 2nd class or do we need to go 1st class? Any idea of cost?
-Has anyone had any issues with Basiqair?
-What is the best mode of transportation to get from the Venice Treviso airport to Venice? Approx. time?
-Are there any tours running out of Garmisch to the castles (Neuschwanstein and surrounding) that provide transportation?

Sorry for the 20 questions, but I'm sure that this is just the tip of the iceburg. Once I get the travel blueprint set, then I can dive into the sightseeing questions. Thanks in advance!

Hi t,

For pricing your itinerary, go to www.railsaver.com. They will tell you if a pass will save you money.

Sorry, but if this is the first time you go to Europe, you should really rethink your whole itinerary, as it makes absolutely no sense. You're spending basically all your time travelling, and have really little time at each location. Is there a reason why Amsterdam? I suggest you cut out that portion completely for a start.

I have to agree, this is a terrible itinerary. You will be exhausted and you don't have enough time to see anything. How about just going to Munich, spending a few days there, do a day trip to salzburg maybe and then head to Venice and finish the holiday there?

Agree with rkkwan. Your itinerary is, um, overly ambitious (insane is a much better word, but as this is your first post we might as well be polite :) ). One of the beautiful aspects of traveling in Europe is the proximity of so many cultures, and it is tempting to try and sprint through as much as you can, but, to get philosophical, you may want to ask yourself what you expect out of your trip - is it to hit as many of the "must-do's" as possible, or is it to try and mingle in a little local flavor, to get a feel for the place (or at least a passing knowlegde of landmarks so your nose is not constantly in your map) or let the feeling of the place come to you, rather than feeling your rear on a train seat knowing you should be sampling the wine from the vineyards that you're whizzing past.

You've got seven good days by my count, and your first will be jet-lagged. Pick two places, just two, keeping in mind the distances between them, and explore away. Don't cheat yourself out of your vacation by spending all your time traveling or running from must-do to must-do. And have a wonderful time.

I am a big fan of intra-Europe low-cost airlines, but even I cannot get comfortable with this ping pong itinerary.

I took a (whirlwind) 7 night trip, starting and ending in Munich, with two days Venice in the middle - - even that was mildly crazy, but it was with a bunch of high energy youngsters and it turned out okay. It included (as other highlights) Salzburg, Bassano del Grappa and Hall in Tirol - - and I think this, or something like it, could be a big improvememnt over what you have planned now. You can still fit Garmisch in, in place of the Austria destinations I mentioned.

Best wishes,

Rex

Thanks all for the quick responses. As far as itinerary goes, I realize that we're all over the place. We're more of the "let's check out a lot of places first and then go back to stay at one longer" type of travelers. As far as spending most of the trip traveling, I really don't see it. The Munich to Amsterdam leg will occur while we're sleeping and we really want to experience a night train. Amsterdam to Venice is about a 2-hr flight, then maybe an bus ride...not bad for going cross country. The longest traveling leg is Venice to Garmisch...which I understand is a very scenic trip through the Alps. Also, Garmisch is a must at the end of the week because of business.

Once again, we realize a best case scenerio for travelling would be to spend 3-7 days in each location to really get a good feel for the people, culture, etc., but we are who we are...

I too think this is crazy. You think the trip will only be 2.5 hours, however when you take into account: checking out of the hotel, getting to the airport/train station early enough to make your flight or train, travel, waiting for bags, getting transport to your hotel, then getting downtown tot he city.... it will take at least 1/2 a day..probably more. You will literally be spending all your time running between ariports or train stations. Do at least 2 nights in each place.

I am amazed that people here cannot stick to the questions at hand and cannot accept the fact that not everyone travels they way THEY do. If you like your itinerary then stick with it.

I doubt a railpass will be helpful in this case but Ira's suggestion to input the itinerary into www.railsaver (or railpass).com is a good one. You'd need a pass that covers Austria to get you from Italy back into Germany and having that extra country included for a one-time pass-through isn't usually economical.

I advise storing your luggage at the main train station in Munich, either in lockers or at the left luggage room...easy links all over the city from the station.

There is a website for citynightline services although I do not know the exact address..a Google will work, but I am almost certain you can get 2nd Class doubles since these services are somewhat more upscale than the usual night trains.

I am not sure Garmish is the best place to base youself for Neuschwanstein since may people opt for Fuessen or Oberammergau. I cannot comment on tours out of there, either, but you might want to check on the local bus services (you do not need an organized tour to see the castles N-schwanstein or Linderhof) if you are willing to take local transport.

Have a great trip.

I really hope that you reconsider your itinerary and listen to the wisdom of the previous posters. They are all seasoned travellers in Europe and know what they are talking about.

You will be jetlagged on Tuesday when you arrive in Munich and you won't have anyplace to "crash" for a little nap to help you adjust. Your first real chance to relax will be on the night train to Amsterdam, and having done a night train, believe me, you won't get much rest (unless you just pass out from exhaustion).

On Thursday you will be spending most of your daylight hours commuting to Venice. I hope you take some time Friday before leaving for Garmisch to at least look around Venice during the day.

I realize that you want to hit as many places as possible, and then decide which ones to go back to, well I can tell you right now you'll want to go back to all of them because you will only get a little (very little) taste of what each place has to offer.

Please, please, reconsider...go back to the drawing board. Peace.

Robyn

If you must do Garmisch at the end because of business, wouldn't it be better to visit Munich at the end too? It seems to me that you can save some time this way, but I could be mistaken.

I think that you insist on visiting Amsterdam, I'd head to Amsterdam right away. I'm not sure if I'd take a night train myself though.

I'd also investigate how far Treviso is from tourist Venice. Amsterdam to Venice can be longer than you think if the airport in Treviso is far away, but then it doesn't seem like you've much of an option to get between the two.

Proceed with your initial schedule and you will learn many valuable travel lessons.

Even though you think you only have a short flight, by the time you add in the travel to/from the airports and the additional time required for security check-in, your 2-1/2 hr trip suddenly has become an almost 6-hr trip.

We did the same thing when we flew from Edinburgh to London last month and that's only a little over a 1 hr flight. But by the time we allowed the extra time at Edinburgh airport for all the security and baggage checks and then the extra time required to find our way thru Gatwick Airport to the train, we had eaten up almost 5 hrs for a 1 hr flight!

I've used City Night Line once. The trains have two- and four-berth compartments with wash basins, and two-berth compartments with bathrooms. You pay an inclusive fare which depends on the standard of the accommodation - there is no such thing as first or second class. Fares include a little breakfast. I went from Karlsruhe to Dresden and would use them again.

I have to chime in with... this sounds overly ambitious and not much fun, concerning the proposed itinerary. If you insist on it, you can come back and let us know how it worked, and why 98% of us were wrong (most kindly).

Have you looked into an "open-jaws" plane ticket? They can be helpful so you don't have to backtrack to the city you began in. Fly into Amsterdam, out of Venice with Germany inbetween, or like that?

Personally I'd skip Amsterdam, as I'm not overly wowed with that particular city.

Each time you change locations, I subtract 1 day of siteseeing (by the time you check out of hotel, transpo to train station or airport, flight or train journey, transpo to new hotel, check in - what you think will take 2 hours, never does take only that long). You will be seeing more of the inside of trains, busses, taxis, planes, than of the lovely cities you plan to visit.

You might post some specific questions separately (like the Venice airport to city one) so they don't get lost.

I don't think there is anything I could add that has not already been said. To expand on ChatNoir's comment about learning valuable travel lessons...if you proceed with this plan, I'd love to hear an honest account of how it went.

hi tlombardo-

I'm afraid I'd have to agree with others about too many places in too little time. With 7 days you're visiting 4 cities in 3 countries. Like others have said, you'd be jet-lagged on Tuesday when you arrive in Munich, and you'll be even more tired on Wednesday due to lack of quality sleep (on the plane Mon night and on the train Tues night). If I were you I'd be too cranky to even enjoy the sights.

If you're sticking with your itinerary, check Basiqair's website. It looks like they only have 1 flight/day from Amsterdam to Treviso, and the flight is at 2pm, which arrives in Treviso around 4pm. Treviso is 1hr by bus from Venice. So, if things go smoothly (no plane delays, traffic jam), you will get into Venice the earliest by 5pm. I don't know how much you'll get to see/enjoy Venice if you're only there from 5pm until the next morning before you have to get on the train to Garmisch.

This is your first time in Europe, but we have all been many times, so I wish you would believe us when we tell you this is not good. You will barely have time to see anything or get a sense for what you like and dislike. However, it sounds like your mind is made up already, so all I can do is wish you well. Chat Noir is so right, you will learn many lessons in travel from this rushed trip. But it makes me sad that these lessons will be so expensive, in terms of both vacation time and money. I hope some good comes from this and you will learn how plan your vacation better next time. Good luck to you.

Looks like the ATVO Eurobus goes from Treviso to Venice. It take 1 hour 10 minutes.

As someone who lives in Europe and flies regularly (we do not own a car), I just want to again stress that flying somewhere often takes many hours more than expected. Planes are late, you sit on the runway, baggage delays and strikes are common.

Also, understand that you will be mentally exhausted from trying to figure out where to catch the next train, how to get to the station, how to buy a ticket, etc.

Most airports do have a website. Before we fly anywhere I check the website to find where the train or bus connection is, how often it leaves the station, cost (and make sure you have change for that to buy tickets from a machine in case there is no live person at the ticket desk).

The more pre planning you do, the less exhausting it will be.

In light of yk's comments, I think that if you want to fit in both Amsterdam and Venice, you should probably investigate one of the big airlines -- like KLM or Alitalia. They should have more frequent flights but you'll probably have to pay more.

I have to agree on this one.

My suggestion would be to fly into Munich towards the end of the previous week, do Garmisch in the end of that week, and then spend a few days (whole days would be preferable) in Venice the beginning of the next week, flying out of Venice. That way, you get to be in Garmisch-Partenkirchen when you need to be, and there is no backtracking. Also, from what I've heard of Amsterdam, it isn't exactly the most lovely of cities to visit. You're only in Europe for 7 days, and if you are constantly moving, you will get home feeling as if your vacation was a blur. When i was young, my family would drive an itinerary much like yours from Los Angeles to Minneapolis. It would only take 2.5 days, but we never really visited or saw anything. Also, keep in mind you will be doing all of this with a suitcase rolling behind you. Not Fun. Also, you are pretty much just sleeping in Venice. Ogallala Nebraska is a good place to just spend the night, not Venice.

These guys are seasoned travelers talking above, they know what theyre talking about.

Regardless, enjoy your vacation. I would suggset you keep your itinerary the same if much of it is already set in stone, and if it gets too crazy, you can always stop and settle.

Hi,

First of all, congratulations on planning your first trip to Europe! Beware...it can be addicting!

I'm not as seasoned of a European traveler as many people are on this board, but I thought I would give my comments and share my experience. My husband and I just returned from a week and a half trip to Vienna (with a day trip to Germany), Florence and Rome in March. We had originally planned a trip similar to yours (we cut out two other places that we were planning on visiting in this 10 day period) but decided not too after reading some of these posts, and I am so glad that we did. Even the trip we took was too rushed for us, and we aren't artsy museum-lovers either. We generally see the highlights, wander around the city, and things like that. This was our first trip to mainland Europe (we've been to England and Wales) and we thought our itinerary would be fine. However, we definitely lived and learned.

While seeing as much as you can sounds exciting, you really will be spending way too much time traveling. It took longer to travel than we thought it would. Checking out of our hotels, lugging our luggage to the metro stations, riding them to the main train stations, waiting for the trains, the ride itself, lugging our luggage back off the train, finding our way to our hotel, and checking in took almost half a day. With your itinerary, you will be seeing a lot of Europe from a train window, but you won't be truly experiencing it or the places you plan on visiting. While nobody on this board is trying to tell you what to do, we are trying to give you some advice so you could enjoy a better vacation. When we were in Europe there were tons more places that we wanted to visit, but I kept on telling myself that I will go back.

As far as the night train is concerned, I do recommend it. We took a night train from Vienna to Florence and riding through the Alps at night with my husband was truly romantic and the scenery was breathtaking. Just keep in mind that it can be very hard to get a good nights sleep on the night trains. Still, I wouldn't change the experience for anything!

Good luck!
Tracy

Wow...I think I see a pattern here. I guess I will go back to the drawing board. The only thing set in stone is that we are flying in and out of Munich and that we must be in Garmisch on Sat 10/30. Thanks again for all the advice.

You're biggest problem is that you fly into Munich and have to be in Garmish at the end of your trip. Can you change flights so its into Munich and out of Rome or Venice, with Garmisch on 10/30 in the middle? You can make a much better itinerary, that goes in one direction. Either that or dont go to Venice. Putz around all there is to offer in Bavaria. It would be much more leasurly, and if you rented a car it would be a really fun vacation. Also, with less flying and no rail, you can maybe upgrade your hotels a bit, or what you can spend on seeing the sites. Maybe a sleeper train to Prague or Berlin, if you really are interested in that.

How about?? Land Munich and fly directly on to Venice? Stay 3 nights. To Garmsich Friday and stay 3 nights. Skip Amsterdam and skip an overnight train ride this trip. (IMO) This is a HUGE improvement on the itinary but still covers (mostly) what you hope to see.

I need to check with USAir to see if I can change my tix. We used frequent flier miles for this trip and already have them in hand.

When we came up with this itinerary, I think our main mistake was flying into Munich. We really wanted to do Amsterdam and Venice. I have business in Garmisch and didn't really view that as a "destination to see." Same holds true for Munich. It's not a place that I'm dying to visit, but really just needed to kill time until our night train arrived to take us to Amsterdam. I'll apologize in advance for those that I'm probably insulting because they love either Garmisch or Amsterdam. I'm also getting an extra day in Garmisch on Sunday because all flights were booked until Monday. I'd have much preferred that day earlier in the week...especially since downtown Garmisch will be closed on Sunday (hence the castle tour questions).

Like Singletail, I say if this is how you want to travel, go for it. You will see lots of scenery through the train windows. You will also spend lots of time in airports and train stations. I think what you see through these responses are big warning flags going up: most people find that sort of zip-zip travel is not satisfying for them. (I am one of "those people" I'd take one week anywhere rather than the sort of itinerary you've designed.)

Have you done other such scouting trips in the past where you have covered the same sort of diversity: distance, language and culture? Ultimately only you can decide. Travel is so very personal.

Have a good time. Keep a good travel journal and report back to us.
- Sharon

It doesn't seem like you'd be able to fit Amsterdam or Venice easily in with Munich unless you revamp your itinerary.

If you're not too excited about Munich, what about Salzburg? Further out there's Vienna, the Rhine area, and maybe even Berlin.

Or if the tickets are not changeable, then maybe pick Amsterdam or Venice (my pick would be Venice) and work it into the itinerary. I don't think that it's impossible to fit both, but you probably need to have some very good planning and you'll need to be sure that you can a rushed trip.

tlombardo,

Since you're locked into your plane tickets and you're not really interested in seeing Munich, I'd use some of the time there to crash at a hotel. You will be so tired! Take a few hours to take a nap, eat, shower, and you'll start your vacation with a full tank. Otherwise, it looks like a couple of days before you can even take a shower.

Good luck with your planning.

Wow. You've gotten some great advice from some very seasoned travellers here. I'll chime in and suggest you save Amsterdam (which I love, BTW) for another trip. The reason the posters here are being so emphatic is a protective reflex - not unlike grabbing someone's arm who is about to walk into oncoming traffic. Whatever you decide, I hope you and your wife have a great time. I suspect you'll already be planning your next European trip on your flight home. Please report back and let us know how it all worked out.

bardo, perfect way to sum up our responses. beautifully said!

mmmm... it really is a protective reflex. Maybe it really is and not so "know it all" anyway. Must ponder that this weekend.
Love the comment that Tlombardo will be planning the next trip on the flight back home...too true, too true

Either planning the next trip, or totally disgusted and worn out. I'm going to give this a think this weekend. I'll be back.

tlombardo, what's your trip objective? What do you like to do? How do you and your husband like to spend your time together? What makes a "vacation" and offers you respite from your daily routine? How do you plan to spend your time at the destinations? (Maybe it's my turn for 20 Questions!)

- Sharon

Well for starters, I'm the husband. Secondly, I'm probably not the typical fodors traveller. I'm more of a top-line, cliffs notes type of traveller. I like to see a lot of different things without the need to be totally immersed in it to get something out of it. Not to say that one way is better than the other, but that is just my way. So far my wife seems to be more like me than not.

As far as my trip objective, it really just started out as a business trip...which still is the reason for the trip. That is where the whole fly in and out of Munich started. It wasn't until after that my wife came on board and we decided to see some places that we both agreed on (Amsterdam and Venice). We're not really the museum-type, but more the wandering the streets and soaking up the atmosphere type. I think of a "vacation" as more of a relaxing time. I can take a vacation by staying home. I see this as a chance to see the world...and as much as the world as I can see in that timeframe. Once again, that's just me. I do appreciate the concern and advice that everyone here offers. My wife and I will definitely reconsider our plans. I also appreciate the very few responses that actually answered my questions.

Naturally, I agree with the posters who think you are exceedingly ambitious. You are also underestimating travel time -- a two-hour Amsterdam-Venice flight is more than 3.5 hours traveling factoring in pre-departure and post-arrival. Perhaps you could help yourself by identifying what you want to see and maybe consider a short 10-day tour through a bunch of places. If you're young (sub-35), Contiki is a good option.

There is nothing wrong with your style of travel, there are even lots of people on this board who like to see lots of places in short periods of time. I for one, totally agree with you that I can relax at home, when I go to Europe I want to see stuff - lots of stuff. But - and this is a big but -- there is seeing lots of stuff and seeing only the inside of train stations and airports. And with your original itineray that is really all you'd see. Until you've done it you can't imagine how you can eat up an entire day with a two hour flight but you certainly can. What everyone else has told you about that part of it is true. Trust them.

I would definitly can the Amsterdam leg. If you really want to experience a night train see if you can't get one to or from Venice. If you could find one from Munich to Venice you could stick with day one - see a little of Munich (lots of people can sightsee on their first day in Europe, some need a nap, but I never do). If there isn't one then just skip the night train this trip. If you just do Venice and some of Bavaria/Austria you'll still see two very different cultures. And you can visit several places in each area. For example you could do Verona from Venice and there are numerous places in Bavaria/Austria so you don't have to just stay in one place. Have you thought of renting a car at all?

Let us know what you decide to do.

You've gotten some wonderful advice and it sounds like you are mulling it over. But the bit in your last post about "We're not really the museum-type, but more the wandering the streets and soaking up the atmosphere type. I think of a "vacation" as more of a relaxing time" REALLY confuses me. You won't possibly be able to "wander and/or soak up" anything using your original itinerary.

If you really are laid back, smell the roses, soak up the atmosphere types -- all the more reason to re-read everything above and re-think your plans.

Agreeing with janis (and topping this post) "strolling the streets" takes time! Seriously. I am not a museum person either; soaking up local ambience requires time to get settled and find your way around. This seems somewhat contradictory to the "see as much as possible" style trip.

Hi tlombardo,

Munich is actually a pleasant town to spend a day. Terrific knoedeln, great beer.

The train ride over the Alps from Munich to Venice is quite lovely.

The night train leaves at 23:39 and arrives 07:36.

How about
Fly into Munich on Tuesday morning
Take train to downtown and spend the day.

Tuesday night take the train to Venice. Stay in Venice Wed, Thurs and train to Garmisch on Fri?

tlombardo, Can't believe I assumed you were a woman... sorry for the oops.

Wow! I like Ira's suggestion. I think you'll enjoy Munich, Venice and Garmsich. You'll see a lot, be on the move, and still have time to do more than simply travel from place to place.

Last year Ira started a fantastic FAQ of sorts for Italy. Pull up this link, then search through it for Venice: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34443340.

As you search through find and read BobtheNavigator's options for 3, 5 or 7 day itineraries in Venice. He also listed best times of day and what he felt were good durations for the activities. There are all sorts of goodies for travel to Italy in this thread and I'm sure you and your wife will be able to pick what suits you.

I have also found WGuides (http://www.wguides.com/) to be a fantastic trip-planning resource.

For Germany trip reports... http://www.bensbauernhof.com/tripreports.html

Wish I had some first hand experience so I could address the specific questions in your original post.

- Sharon