Need help planning our Itinerary and budget for our first Paris,Munich and Germany visit
 

Hello everyone. I have been reading Fodor's for about 3 months now trying to come up with an itinerary however, I am in over my head and really need some help. That's why I am posting today for the first time. I feel like it's crunch time since We leave in 55 days. Here's a little background on us. We are a 40 something married couple (kids are grown) going to Europe for the first time.
We leave from Bentonville Arkansas (XNA) Monday September 17 at 12:05pm with one stop in Dallas Tx (3hr 50 min layover) then on to Paris at 5:10 pm arriving at 9:40 am (CDG) Tuesday September 18 for six nights.

We leave Paris (ORY) Monday September 24 at 9:40 am arriving in Munich (MUC) at 11:05 for two nights.

We pick up a rental car from Avis on September 26 and leave from Frankfurt(FRA) Sunday September 30 at 11:05 am.

I pre-paid as much as possible and here is what is paid for so far.

Airfare to Europe. $1,569.00 total.
Paris shuttle from and to airports. 79 Euro.
Paris visit passes. 55 Euro (54.40).
Airfare to Munich. 198 Euro.
Bavaian shuttle to hotel. 42 Euro.
Holiday inn Munich on Effnerstrasse through Priceline $477.00 total.
Steigenberger airport hotel Frankfurt September 29 through Priceline $123.00 total.

We have $3,300 or about 2,400 Euros in our budget but have pre-booked (not paid yet) some things

Hotel Bellevue D'oro in the 4th for 70 Euro per night 70x6 = 420 Euro.

Upgrade at the Holiday inn Munich 30x2 = 60 Euro.

Avis rental car for 4 days using our Walmart discount 190 Euros total plus fuel of about 75 Euros.

Post hotel Mittenwald September 26 100 Euro.

Upgrade at the Frankfurt hotel 25 Euros.

Total 870 Euros. Leaving us about 1,530 Euros for the rest of the trip.

Two nights lodging between Mittenwald and Frankfurt,Food,drink,Sights and transportation around Munich for two days.

We would love to see the major sights of Paris. Have wine at a street cafe. and people watch.

Go to Oktoberfest ( That's why we are going to Munich!) eat at the hofbrauhaus. go to a beer garden in the English garden park. See the glockenspiel. Go to the marienplatz. Take a bike tour.

See small beautiful German towns on the way to Frankfurt. See the Alps?

What do you think. Can we do it on such a limited budget? Do you have any ideas that would help us get the most bang for our bucks? Thank you very much in advance for any suggestions and help. Roger and Lisa.

P.S I have $350.00 in reserve just in case but I would like to not spend it if possible.

HI RL,

>Leaving us about 1,530 Euros for the rest of the trip.

I think that gives you about 100+ E/day.

Bkfst (coffee and croissant) 2.5 pp
Lunch (Salad and a cuppa) 8
Dinner (2 courses) 25

Your fuel cost looks OK.

It's doable.

>P.S I have $350.00 in reserve just in case but I would like to not spend it if possible.<

Plan on spending it, and an equal amount on the CC.

Don't pass up that absolutely wonderful whatever because it is not in your budget. You will be much happier having the whatchamicallit than you will not getting it and wishing you had.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

I have to admit, I read your post 3 times and got pretty bogged down in the details. I am not sure how long the 1500 euros needs to last or what exactly it needs to cover.

When my husband and I were in Germany, we spent about 100-110 euros per day on food, drink, public transportation, museum entrance fees, etc.

We got a transit pass in Munich, which was inexpensive and allowed us to roam all over on the S-Bahn, U-Bahn, and trams.

We took an afternoon bike tour with Mike's Bikes, which I think was something like $40/person, but it was worth it because we saw a lot of things in a reasonably short amount of time and the guide was really great.

We ate at the Hofbrauhaus, which was really crazy and fun, but the food was just ok. We had some really excelent food at a place right of the Marienplatz called Andecher am Dom - it is off a small pedestrian street behind the Frauenkirche (the church with the 2 onion domes). Very reasonable prices too, esspecially for being about a block of the Marienplatz.

Thank you ira. I think you are saying about 70 E per day for food.. right?
I think we could save a little on food if we only ate in restaurants half the time and street food the rest?


Hello J_Correa.
The 1530 E will need to cover...
12 days of food.
2 Nights of lodging.
Transportation for 2 days in Munich.
A little wine in Paris.
Some beers at Oktoberfest and at a beer garden in Munich.
Tourist sights while we're in Europe.
Sorry if my post is a little confusing.

Hi RL,

>I think you are saying about 70 E per day for food.. right?
I think we could save a little on food if we only ate in restaurants half the time and street food the rest?<

You are paying $580 for two nights in a Munich hotel and you want to skimp on food?

I consider that very penny wise and pound foolish.

You are going to go over budget. Skimp when you get home.

Get a job at the local Burger King for a month. Take in laundry. Babysit. Walk the streets, but don't be pennypinchers on your 1st visit to Europe.

I still hate myself for not taking out a loan and buying a set of Flora Danica 35 years ago.

((I))

Agree with Ira that if your budget is so tight, why would you spend such a big chunk of it on 2 nights hotel in Munich?

Most of your hotels should include breakfast with your room rate but be sure to check. If so, then you only need to worry about the other two meals. Fortunately, food in Germany is not that expensive but in Paris, I'm not so sure as it's been a long time since I was there.

Do you already know where you want to stay for the 2 nights between Mittenwald and Frankfurt or are you asking for recommendations? If you are asking for a recommendation, then I would suggest a couple of nights in a little town called Iphofen near Wurzburg. We stayed at a wonderful hotel called Gasthof zum Hirschen for around 60 Euro per night including breakfast. From Iphofen, it's just a short drive to Wurzburg and many other small, charming towns in the area.

I also think you could have done better than $123 for your last night at the Frankfurt Airport. We usually stay at the Holiday Inn Express in Moerfelden which is only a few minutes from the airport. Prebooked, a room cost around 70 Euro. But since you've already done the Priceline thing, you can't cancel anyway.

I definitely think you could have done better budget-wise with the funds you have available. And I agree with others that you will end up spending more than you had hoped.

Believe me I didn't want to spend that much on a room in munich but, I offered $200 per night that was accepted then there was $79.00 in other fees. I called the hotel to ask what kind of room we will get and was told a basis cheap room then they offered me a very nice room for 30 Euro per night more and I agreed. Same thing with the hotel in Frankfurt I offered $100.00 for the night but with fees it came to $125.00 I called after priceline accepted my bid and was offered a Jr suite for 25 Euros more. ira, If I had the time to get another job I would! LOL. I would walk the streets too but how much could a 45 year old fat man make? The wife said NO WAY!!! LOL. I think $6,000.00 for 12 nights is about as far as we can go. Remember I still have an extra $350.00 and a credit card. When I said street food I meant things like Gyros,Falafals,Bratwurst and sandwiches! We love things like that.
Thank you bettyk I am lookinh into your suggestions.

There are other ways of finding a hotel besides Priceline. There are many websites with hotel listings including the town's own website (ie., www.munich.de or iphofen.de). For Germany, I have used www.hotels.de successfully. But I'm sure Octoberfest jacked up the prices you had to pay.

And, while I'll admit that a Jr. Suite sounds nice, that 25 Euro could have paid for some of your meals. Also, a standard room at the Steigenberger probably would have been find for 1 night. IMHO, I think they sold you something you didn't really need.

Here's a website link for info on the Zum Hirschen:

http://www.tiptop-hotels.de/gb/hotel...mhirschen.html

I can't help too much with the trip planning, but I am of the mindset that I don't want to skimp on sites, but I will skimp on food. So I don't mind getting supermarket take-aways. In Paris, I often made lunch just out of a baguette ... that will be a Euro or 2 at most. For a good sit-down meal at a great price, I've eaten twice at Crepe de la Cluny in the 5th (rue l'harpe) and really enjoyed my meals there.

I've never used Priceline before, but did you look at sites like biddingfortravel.com? They post previous winning bids and will provide bidding strategies, so you may want to keep that in mind for future trips to avoid overpaying.

Roger

Actually your price for the Munich hotel doesn't sound that bad. I am getting quotes for $295 and up for the week before Oktoberfest because of trade shows and conventions. There is a shortage of available rooms so we may stay out of Munich this trip.

$580 for two nights in a Holiday Inn?????????? I don't care if it is during Octoberfest. Going to Germany and staying in a Holiday Inn is something I would never consider. I don't even stay in them in the US.

Good luck.

Curious

Curious replied,

"$580 for two nights in a Holiday Inn?????????? I don't care if it is during Octoberfest. Going to Germany and staying in a Holiday Inn is something I would never consider. I don't even stay in them in the US"

Ok I'll bite.. Where would YOU stay in Munich at Oktoberfest time.. in a superior double room with breakfast included... at a 3 star hotel for 210 Euro per night or less.. that is 3 miles or less from the fest grounds?

JoeTro I agree with you. I know where some people eat is very important to them. It's really not to us. We will eat like the locals do and I am sure they don't spend 70 Euros every day for 2 people to eat.. We are looking forward to our visit in Europe and I think eating in sit down restaurants half of the time we're there will be good enough for us.

I also think that some brands tend to be better in Europe than in America, or at least don't have as much of a negative stigma attached. Definitely Best Western, but Holiday Inn also comes to mind. I stayed at a Days Inn in Dublin that was just fine.

I think that for Oktoberfest time, those hotel prices aren't bad.

Your budget will be tight, but I think it is totally doable. Some people don't have as much fun if they have to be thrifty, but as long as you are a budget-minded person, then you will be fine.

This won't help you this time - but perhaps the next time you use PL ---

I'd personally NEVER contact a priceline-won hotel to ask "what sort of room am I getting?" Of course they will say a basic one. But ain't necessarily so . . . If you arrive at a hotel and don't like the room THEN you can ask about the possibility of an upgrade. I just don't get using PL and then immediately paying more for an upgraded room.

Most of teh time there is absolutely no difference between a PL booked room and anyone esle's (and I've sometimes been upgrades w/o any extra $$ right at the front desk)

First off, don't get stressed out about hotels you have already purchased and cannot change. Just know for future trips that your options are not limited to your basic hotel chains. Personally, I don't like Priceline or Hotwire because I need to know everything I can about a place before I commit to paying for it! :)

I prefer to stay in bed & breakfasts or smaller guesthouses when we travel in Europe. I get to experience a smaller, more local place - often much cheaper than a hotel. Don't be afraid to do your research and try one of these types of lodging for the other nights you still need to book. Incidentally, my husband and I were in Germany for Octoberfest last year and we stayed at the Hotel Laimer Hof in a great room with breakfast for only 140E per night. It was convenient to public transportation and best of all, just a few minutes walk to the Hirschgarten

Oops - that was weird - a flash of the screen and suddenly I had posted what I typed while I was still typing!

Anyway, what I was saying, was that the Laimer Hof was near the Hirschgarten - a wonderful beer garden that should not be missed.

Enjoy your trip! Don't forget to make time to enjoy the little things, and don't stress about the stuff you can't change

>that is 3 miles or less from the fest grounds?

Just a stupid question - why does it need to be within 3 miles (5 km) of the Theresienwiese? I would generally suggest any Munich hotel with a good subway connection to the center and fest grounds. Is avoiding additional 10 min on a subway or tram that much worth?

I was asking Curious where he would stay in Munich for what I paid. I can't change our hotel because priceline has a no refund policy. The Holiday inn Munich seems to be an ok place for 210 Euros a night and is close to the Theresienwiese grounds. Some people think I got ripped off. Next time we go to europe I will not use Priceline because I think their fees are too high but hey..I lucked out this time and got a pretty good place to stay. In frankfurt I could have booked the same hotel for $100.00 through the hotel's web site and avoided the priceline fee. Oh well.. live and learn. What do you think about 70 Euros per night at our hotel in Paris, Hotel Bellevue et du Chariot D'or?

what "priceline fees"??

On PL you pay what you bid - w/ the extras being local taxes (which are payable on any hotel booking)

What fees are you paying?

Hi RL,

>I would walk the streets too but how much could a 45 year old fat man make?

You'ld be surprised. Wear red wig. :)

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

MUNICH:
"Your Offer Price Per Room, Per Night: US$200.00
Subtotal: US$400.00
Taxes & Service Fees: US$77.22
Total Charges: US$477.22"
I assume the FEES are for their service?

FRANKFURT:
"Your Offer Price Per Room, Per Night: US$100.00
Subtotal: US$100.00
Taxes & Service Fees: US$23.00
Total Charges: US$123.00"
What travel service do you know that doesn't charge a FEE?

ira I think we'll be ok with the budget we have planned. I am still looking at things to see and places to go.

I second the recommendation for the Hirschgarten - and the Hotel Laimerhof for that matter :) Since your hotel in Munich is already set up, you are set there, but the Hirschgarten is worth a tram ride outside the city center. We visited the Chinese Tower beer garden in the English Garden, but we liked the Hirschgarten much better - just a more friendly, relaxed atmosphere. I think the beer and food was a bit cheaper too.

Thanks J_Correa and sherhatfield. That's a great tip. I believe the Hirschgarten is close to the palace we wanted to visit?

Too bad you're only staying 2 nights in Munich...you can't see the whole city in a week, and there are many, many day trips you could take. I've been there many times, but I was there when the exchange rate was much more favorable for U.S. travellers. It is very crowded and more expensive during Oktoberfest. You might try outside of Munich....I've stayed in Augsburg before (30 minutes by train) during Oktoberfest. If you have time, try Andechs Monastery....30 minutes via the S5; get off at the Hersching end station. Monks brew their own beer....great place. On your way towards Frankfurt, you might see if Rothenberg on der Tauber is on your way....best preserved medieval town in Germany, maybe in Europe...fantastic place.

Just a follow up....while you can't change some of your hotels, in those locations you have yet to book, try a bed and breakfast or maybe an apartment. They usually are cheaper and probably nicer than a hotel. I've often found hotels in travel books (Fodors, Frommers, etc.); you might want to try Karen Brown's Germany book....she has a series of nice books with nice places to stay. You might also try Earl Steinbicker's Daytrips in Germany book...I've used two editions of his books for my travels in Germany over the years.

After our visit to Munich we are heading down to Mittenwald for the night of Spetember 26 at the Post hotel. Then we will make our way toward Frankfurt at our hotel there for the night of September 29 ( hotel is already paid for) I am looking into Iphofen or Nordlingen for the 2 other nights we have in Germany. Is Andechs Monastery in the same area we will be driving in? I think I have heard of it. Does it have a bridge over the road from one side of the Monastery to the other? and they brew very strong beer?

No - you really are not paying any fees to priceline. VAT in Europe is that high. Your "taxes/fees" are taxes (VAT) plus probably some sort of small hotel fee or local tax of some kind at the Frankfurt property . . . .

I guess they get their service fee from the property then? Thanks for the info.
Do you think I should try PL for our hotel in Paris? Our reservations are for the Hotel Bellevue et du Chariot D'or at 39 Rue de turbigo in the 4th for 70 Euro per night or about $96.00 (not including breakfast) Do you think I could do better using PL again? Thanks

PL is not that great for Paris - the bidding zones are just to spread out to get a specific area. And since hotels are relatively reasonable priced in Paris it is usually better to just book directly.

Our hotel list a price of 6 Euro PP for breakfast of just bread,juice and coffee. Do you think we can beat that price at a little cafe in the area around rue de turbigo and sebastopol? Thanks.

Andechs Monastery is south of Munich, but I don't think there is a bridge there. I have never driven there, and, if you intend to drink beer, I would recommend that you do not drive....drunk driving laws are usually a lot more strict in Europe than here. I have always taken the S-Bahn (above ground) train, in this case, the S5 from the main Munich train station (Hauptbahnoff) to the Herrsching end station. From there, you can either hike up the hill (kind of steep, about 1.5 to 2 miles), or take a bus....10 minutes. It really is a nice place, especially in the fall...and, yes, the beer can be strong! The dark beer in particular I think is the strongest. I've never been to Mittenwald....it also is south of Munich, near the Austrian border....supposed to be a really nice place. I've never been to the other two places, Nordlingen and the other one. I did check a map....Rothenburg is a little more than half way between Munich and Frankfort, closer to Frankfort. If you haven't completely made up your mind on Nordlingen and the other place, you might look at websites on Rothenburg. It really is very nice.

Another comment, this time about the Oktoberfest: it is very crowded in Munich, especially at the "fest." The "fest" is particularly crowded at night and even more so on weekends. However, it is some of the best fun I have ever had in my life. As a matter of fact, I have been there 6, 7, or 8 times...lost track. I first went in 1987, when one of my sisters was studying in Munich for the year. 14 breweries set up these huge tents, each one holding something like 6000 to 8000 people. There are also all sorts of carnival rides, games, and food....try the spit roasted chicken...this is so good! Each tent has an oompah band playing. At night, you might have to walk around for awhile until you find a table to sit down at; it would be easier during the day. But, it is more "wild" at night; at night, even though you're not supposed to do so, people stand up on top of the tables drinking beer, singing, and in general participate in much merry making. People generally do not stand up on tables during the day. I don't know if I would necessarily go to the Hofbrauhaus restaurant/beerhall, although there is a Hofbrauhaus tent. The reason I say that is because the Hofbrauhaus will tend to have a lot of Americans....might make you feel more at home, but I kind of like mixing with the locals when I travel....but there are all sorts of foreigners at the "fest"...many Americans, many Italians, many Irish, many Australians, etc. The Hofbrauhaus restaurant/beer hall, however, is still a lot of fun.

Roger_Lisa, we are staying in Noerdlingen in September at the Braunes Ross. It's in the center, looks nice and the price is right -- we're paying 60E for a double.

http://www.hotel-braunes-ross.de/

However, I agree that if you haven't yet been to Rothenburg you might want to look into staying there. It is one of our favorite places, especially after all the daytrippers leave. That's why it's nice to spend the night. There are a lot of good, reasonably priced hotels and B&B's, so you should find something to fit your budget.

http://www.rothenburg-online.de/hotels/index_eng.html

You could save a few dollars/euro by booking your Paris airport transfer through Bee Shuttle. You can reserve online. Used them before -- and will again -- and liked their service. The rate is 17 euro/pp w/ a 10% discount for the return (15,30 euro/pp). BTW, we'll be in Paris the 19th-21st. Have fun!

Hello Narnya. I have already pre-paid our transportaion through Paris-shuttle but thank you for the suggestion.

bettyk. When will you be there? Maybe we can meet in person? Lisa and me are regular people ( not rich ) and we think you sound/advise very cool. what is your age and are you married?

Zermatt2 Thank sooo much I am looking into all of your suggestions.
Roger and Lisa Barton.

Narnya, Let's meet in person and have a drink on us ok? We'll be in Paris from September 18 to the 24th. We're cool down to earth people and always ready to meet fellow travelers. Email us and we'll set up a place to meet. Cheers.

Roger & Lisa, thanks for the nice comments. We leave the US from Houston on Sept. 12. Noerdlingen is actually our last stop before we return home on Oct. 4th. We'll be there on the 2nd and will spend our final night somewhere close to the Frankfurt Airport -- probably the Holiday Inn Express. So, unfortunately, you'll be home before we get to Noerdlingen.

My husband and I are in our 50's. I've been retired for a couple of years but my husband just retired in May. We've always loved to travel, but since we aren't rich either, we try to pick and choose where to spend our money. Some things are more important to us than others. We're not into fancy restaurants but like a comfortable, central place to stay. When we can, we use miles and a few extra $$ to upgrade from coach to business class on American Airlines. When you get older, comfort is everything!!

We lived in England for a year and in Vienna for 2 years in the early 1980's so we got to travel around alot then. We learned a little German so we feel more comfortable in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, altho you can get by with German in the upper parts of Italy too.

Bentonville isn't so far from us. We've been to the Hot Springs area a couple of times on our motorcycle.

If there's anything else you think I can help you with, feel free to send me an email to [email protected].

Hi, Roger and Lisa.

I have been to Europe many times, especially Germany. Don't remember if I mentioned it, but I lived in The Hague for 4 years. I absolutely love travelling. If there are any more questions you have about Germany, please let me know....be happy to try to answer them.

Richard

Thank you all for the tips and suggestions. I am sure I will have a few more questions to ask before we go.
BTW. We are down to 51 day until we leave. yipeeee. R&L