Need help planning a trip for 2 18 year old girls
 

Hello everyone,

I am trying to get ideas on planning a SAFE, fun adventure for my daughter and her friend. This will be her high school graduation present. They want to go for around 14 days in late June/early July.

Areas that they would like to see: London, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam, Venice, Munich
I know it is alot but they probably won't be able to hit all of them. At least the first 4.

Looking for ideas on ways to travel (which trains), places to go and see and try to get the most out of the trip. Inexpensive hotels near the main parts of the city that won;t cost an arm and a leg so they can easily get around (walking).

My biggest concern is their safety with 2 young girls traveleing by themselves!!

Thank you for your great insight. It is greatly appreciated

Just two quick comments for now:

1). That might be too many places for such a short time. They will have jet lag and lots of travel time to deal with.

2) don't get upset if you get some push back from some of our European members. Most of them wouldn't dream of planning a trip for their 18 yo/ I.e. adult children.

Unless yuo are going n the trip with them - they should be planning it.

First - they need to decide what THEY want. If they don't do the work up front they won;t enjoy the trip nearly as much

Second - if there is a problem they need to know all the details to be able to handle it.

As for safety - unless they are incredibly naive they should be fine - no different than traveling in the US or living at school

If they really want to know they can come here and ask. But I would suggest they look at the Let's Go Student Guides and the Thorn Tree section of the Lonely Planet website to see how other students travel - and get the best info and tips.

When my 18 year old went with 2 friends a couple of summers ago she told me where they planned to go (briefly) in the week at home before the trip - and in more detail after they came back.

Looking for ideas on ways to travel (which trains)>

Well the European train system is fantastic and safe even for solo young gals - when you settle on the itinerary you and them can go online in the various National Railway sites and book all their required tickets if you want or they can do as they go along

But advance booking often now results in a sizable discount over just showing up at the station - but discounted tickets are sold in limited numbers on each train and thus musts be booked weeks in advance to guarantee and then typically are non-changeable non-refundable so they have to make that particular train or have to buy another full-fare ticket - there are also Eurail Youthpasses for anyone under age 26 but in 14 days where they will presumably spend most of their time in cities like Lonon, Paris, Amsterdam, etc they probably won't be traveling enough on trains to merit even looking at railpasses.

Check out these IMO fantastic sites for understanding the European rail system - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

And buy them a copy of Let's Go Europe - the 'Bible' of young backpackers with a wealth of relevant to younger folk in it - or check one of the your library and have them take it, etc.

I don't have any problems with people helping out two 18 year olds plan a trip, I think it is a good idea. Perhaps it wasn't noticed, but this is a GIFT and that is why it is going to be more or less arranged. Nothing wrong with that, it is kind of a completely different gift to say I'm giving you a gift to plan a trip to Europe, go do it yourself with $x. And the parent here is probably going to need to figure out what things cost before deciding a budget, also.

I agree Let's Go is a very good resource for that age. I'd worry about hotels later, that is the easy part. Narrow down the itinerary and figure out how to get between the cities first.

The reason they picked all of those cities is because she originally was looking at the Contiki tours and that is most of the places they visit.

In reality, you can probably take out Venice and Munich.

They are going to plan much of their trip, I wanted to use the suggestions from this forum to give them ideas on what to do. They would have no ideas on where to stay and what hotels are good and bad. I am just dooing some of the early leg work for them.

I am just doing some of the early leg work for them.>

And IMO well you should - they are high school kids who have little idea of what such a trip entrails - forget the daggers and you'll find lots of folks here who want to help not just criticize. janisj warned you!

Basically what I am looking for is to figure out how many days to spend in which city. I have never been to Europe. For example: How many days would be enough in each city to get a good feel not just a quick visit and running to the next place.

As Christina noted, this will be a gift. I do not want them to go ultra cheap but not an unlimited budget. I need to get an idea how much this is goinng to cost. Once I get a ballpark figure, then the plans can start to be tweaked.

You are only talking about two weeks. When you deduct all the travel time you are looking at three cities max really. Five or six days in London, five or six days in Paris and a couple of days in a third city.

To be able to squeeze in a 4th city, would there be enough time to do everything but cutting a day or 2 from London and Paris? For example: 4 days in London and Paris, 3 days in Rome and 2 days in Amsterdam?

Again, once it is figured out how many days in each city, then the next step would be trying to plan what to do in the city.

Let THEM decide . ..

I agree that three destinations is ideal. They'll lose a travel day, or most of one, getting between places. So I'd say 6 days London, 6 days Paris, and 2 days Amsterdam, for example, but you could play around with that. You'll want to get them open-jaw tickets in all likelihood (flying into city X and out of city Y), so as to avoid backtracking.

As for safety, they'll be a lot safer in those cities than they would be in Philadelphia, New York, Boston, and DC. European kids of their age and younger travel all over by themselves (with any luck, the girls will meet some of them). They do need to know how to keep track of and protect their valuables, of course. Nothing quite screams pickpocketing target like the 18-year-old who hangs her purse on a café chair and tosses her iPAD on the table. They can read up here and on Trip Advisor and Thorntree and elsewhere about how to keep themselves and their possessions safe.

Since they seem to be visiting only big cities, they will want to travel by train. Tickets are cheapest when purchased considerably in advance and from each country's individual national railway. There's tons of information here on how to do that. Before they get to each city they should familiarize themselves with that city's public transportation system so they're not looking naïve and bewildered (which is an invitation to be taken advantage of).

"Again, once it is figured out how many days in each city, then the next step would be trying to plan what to do in the city."

If you flip this statement around and think in terms of what they want to see and do in each city, it might help to plot the amount of days. Will they want to see lots of museums and art, shop, explore markets, etc. If you have an idea of what is attracting you to each city, you can plan on amount of time.

What city are they most excited about?

Good advice above. I'd look at the http://www.yha.org.uk/ in London, these are not hotels but very safe hostels with a range of rooms and also a chance to meet a bunch of like minded people. Given that you speak English they should get an easy intro to Europe-Lite as the UK can be described.

Some of the London YHA hostels are well placed for the things the girls will want to see.

As they step into the France and Holland you can choose hotels.

Just a reminder to be sure to factor in travel time when counting the number of days in each city. Even with a morning flight arrival, it will likely be lunchtime by the time they get through passport control, collect their bags, and transfer to their London hotel. And they will be jet-lagged.

Then, they will typically lose about half a day to travel each time they move cities. If you are thinking 4 London, 4 Paris, 2 Amsterdam, and 3 Rome, you really have at best 3.5 London and Paris, 1.5 Amsterdam and likely only 2 in Rome, as it is more difficult to reach.. Another way to think of it is you need 5 nights in a city to get 4 days there.

If they really feel the need to tack on another city, consider a day trip outside a major city. For example, a visit to Oxford from their base in London. Happy planning!

As everyone has suggested take into account travel times at jet lag to start with. I woukd suggest going to london first that way it will help them aclimatise to europe as we speak english. But I would suggest from there to go from london to paris via the eurostar train. This is due to the check intimes duration needed is shorter and with london st pancras and gare du nord stations both being in the middle of london and paris respectively, it is easier and quicker for them to get to their next hotel.

Have them get some travel books and decide where they might want to go, then look at forums like this one. Ask specific questions and you will get some good answers.

I agree with msteacher that a day outside the city would be a good idea.

I disagree with those that recommend Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree. The questions I see there when I look at it are as bad as the worse ones here.

I also see no problem with your helping these girls plan their European vacation. My children, smart as they are, could no more have planned a trip like this by themselves when they were 18 than sprouted wings and flown! The "devil is in the details" and that's where a parent can be most helpful.

First, as so many have already suggested, have the kids do some research as to what they MOST want to see and then pare down their list to, at most, 3 destinations. There's no reason to see Europe from a train window which is what they will do if they try to visit more than 3 cities.

Second, instead of hotels, suggest the girls stay in hostels. That's where my kids have always stayed when they travel overseas. Hostels aren't just huge dorm rooms--they also offer private en-suite rooms. (My kids never stay in the dorm rooms in hostels.) My kids used HostelWorld.com to find and book their hostels. They tell me they like this website because the hostels are rated and reviewed by people who have actually stayed in them. They said that they found the reviews to be quite accurate so they didn't encounter any surprises. Also, hostels are a good place for young people to find others with whom to sightseeing, dine, and socialize--something they probably wouldn't have in a hotel.

Not sure the girls would really know what to do? I understand a lot of research is needed. In the major cities (London, Paris and Rome) there are a million things that can be done in each city.

Hihrmkr, what a wonderful graduation present! I am sure that the girls will be so excited. I think that it is nice that you have the time to do some research for them as well. I agree that their input into what they want to see and do is important but any and all suggestions from those that have been to Europe are certainly beneficial to the trip planning. Isn't this what we all do when we plan our trips? I rely upon the expertise of others who have been to the places I am planning to visit. My adult daughters always ask my advice when planning trips as they know that my husband and I travel and cruise frequently and have a better knowledge of what to expect than they do.

I found this website that you might check out:

http://www.aesu.com/default.aspx

It is geared to the 18-35 age group and they have many nice educational trips that your daughter and her friend would like. There are some discounts if traveling w/ a friend. Check it out and see what you think. They would be traveling in a group w/ similar ages and also meet new friends that they can hang with. Think it would fit the picture nicely. I am sure if you google you could find other young adult trips as well. Good luck. Happy planning for you, your daughter and her friend.

Luz2travel15...
I have looked at a few tours already. aesu, contiki.

Contiki just seemed to rushed around and not really seeing everything and more of a party, party, party.

With aesu and other young adult tours, you lose days flying in/out of Europe and again rushed around.

I am still considering the tours but think I might be able to plan (with help of Fodorites) and others to come up with a better trip.

can anyone else recommend some tours (good or bad)for young adults?

If the girls do their own research, they will be more able to take advantage of the trip. They will know how to get around, what sights there are and which ones they want to see. Even if they take a tour.

Rick Steves is not popular here, but his book Europe through the Back Door is an easy read and a good introduction to European travel. He prioritizes sights in a given city according to how many days you have.

We travelled in Paris with our nieces who were the same age and their favourite day was a bike tour of Versailles. Organized tour that we accessed through public transit in Paris. They set us up with bikes, we took them on train to Versailles. Shopped in village for food and wine for lunch then they escorted us around these massive grounds, looked after our bikes while we were in the specific sites. Girls still talk about this day. K

I would choose London, Paris, and Amsterdam and have the girls design their own trip rather than taking a tour.

Will the 14 days be in Europe or are you counting travel days within the 14 days?

If truly 14 days then 5 days London, 5 days Paris, 4 days Amsterdam (might be a bit much for Amsterdam but perhaps with a stop someplace in between).

Book some admission tickets on line before departure. Buy maps for each city (once you/they determine destinations), use post it flags to mark sightseeing locations and then they can move around efficiently using public transportation. They can easily take trains between cities (again book ahead for best pricing).

The Let's Go series of guide books are great. They should begin by reading the introductory sections which have great travel and safety tips (although these cities are very safe). Then go on and read about the sights and choose what they want to see.

Lots of people like the Rick Steves guide books but he only includes those sights he enjoys so his books are not comprehensive. He omits many wonderful sights from his books so if you do choose RS guides add at least one other guide book for a well-rounded approach.

Most guide book companies but their sights on line (Fodor's, Frommer's, Lonely Planet, Let's Go) so you don't need to spend money to look at sightseeing options. Local libraries are resources to browse through different guide books before choosing which ones to buy. City guides are more comprehensive than general country or region guides.

They should stay in hostels for inexpensive lodging where they will meet other young people traveling around. Hostels are now rated and you can book ahead. You can even find hostels with double rooms rather than dorm rooms.

Hostels usually offer free walking tours also.
I would definitely book ahead. They are going at a busy time.

We stay in a lot of hostels when we travel. We, and primarily our teenagers, talk to a lot of young travelers. The notion that you need five or six days in a city is bizarro. Old people talk.

<< The notion that you need five or six days in a city is bizarro. >>

Shallow people talk.

Is the family of your daughter's friend as involved in planning their trip?
(If they are paying for their daughter (?) could there be resentment that basically you are deciding how to spend their money?)

And you haven't been to Europe yet - assuming you'd like to, I respectfully suggest you really trim expenses for your daughter and plan a visit yourself!

^^^<i>longhorn55 on Nov 8, 13 at 9:16am
"I also see no problem with your helping these girls plan their European vacation. My children, smart as they are, could no more have planned a trip like this by themselves when they were 18 than sprouted wings and flown! "</i>

And I bet they could have, if the trip was something they really wanted to do.

Almost like buying a car for someone without a driver's license.

I have information on free walking tours in various cities if you are interested. Let me know. Haven't used them myself but bookmarked them just in case.....

Paris is easy to do on your own. Metros easy to navigate, etc.

London also easy on your own. We just spent 2 days in London pre-cruise this past Nov. and loved every minute of it. We did do an all day bus tour to maximize what we could see while there and that was an excellent day tour as well. There is so much to see in London. Lots of people do the hop on/off trolley tours and they are popular. U can buy tickets online as well.

What kinds of things do these two young women like to do? If it were either one of my kids, I know what they like to do (especially in Europe), and would help them make a list of those places in each of those cities. But really, for first-time visitors, you can get a Rick Steves book for each city (I like him, and he IS good for first-time visitors), and see the top sites that are listed.

Then have them see what they think they'd like (for example, maybe they know they like ancient history. Then, definitely, a day in Rome at the Forum, the Coloseum and other nearby sites.

Keep in mind that as 18yos, they may lose quite a bit of time wandering around and getting lost, but will (I hope) enjoy the getting lost (older people end up in the same situation!). They won't get to half of the places on their lists, because of enjoying other things. And that's ok too.

Are they city-smart? Do they live in big cities? Are they already familiar with getting around by public transportation? And of course, have they traveled abroad, and to Europe? Have they visited those places before. All of those things would help.

For transfers like going from London to Paris, the eurostar is the best way to go. To include Rome, the best way would be to use a discount airline, like RyanAir or Easyjet, though I don't know where their airports are (one of them flies into smaller airports outside of big cities). Amsterdam is an easy train trip from Paris. Discuss with your 18yos what getting from city to city would involve - they may decide 3 cities is enough for them.

And keep in mind, and discuss with them of course, the fact that they will be legal to drink. (Sitting on a piazza in Rome, or at a sidewalk cafe in Paris, with a glass of wine, is one of the greatest pleasures of being there, IMHO.)

Lots of good advice from Lexma90 and those that recommend (the oft-maligned) Rick Steves. He does a very good job of outlining the major sites in each city and country and even has a suggested itinerary for various days in each place. He also has free MP3 downloads (and a free app) on his website for walking tours in London, Paris, Amsterdam, Athens and several cities in Italy. We used 7 of his Athens, Rome and Pompeii downloads this summer and I thought they all gave a great overview of the sites.

http://www.ricksteves.com/news/audio-tours.htm

Are the girls sure they want to go to these cities or is it still open to discussion?

I'm asking because of your priority on safety. None of the cities on your list is unsafe. But if you have a hostel which is too far away from city center to walk, public transport has stopped and you don't want to spend 50 bucks on a taxi, that's a moment when I made decisions as an 18-year old which my parents wouldn't have been happy about.

London and Paris are huge and expensive. Cities like Prague are way cheaper to get a hostel room which is no more than 20 minutes away from any place a young tourist will probably want to go to.

It might be an idea to check whether the budget you want to spend is okay with the cities you're currently considering. And depending on the priorities of the two girls, a city where they get more bang for their buck might be a more fun place.

And one comment to the original itinerary: if they want to go to Rome, they should fly. I think in that case they should skip Amsterdam but go directly to Rome from Paris.

kids are all different...some have the wherewithall and some dont

my niece travelled earlier this year but she had friends with her who had a lot of common sense ...but they did still manage to miss a train and they did miss out on new years in london simply cos they didnt research enough

id not send my 18 yr old on a trip with a friend..id get them to book a tour...at least theyd have the support of the tour company in their first foray...
but then thats just my opinion

they arent really adults///legally yes...but theres often a big gap between that and reality

i dont blame you for wanting to help... theyre precious cargo ..and even if theyre safe all the way its a lot of money to waste if they dont get at least most of it right

my son went years ago with a male friend ... i received a frantic phone call from friends sister worried that the boys had not met up with a friend in portugal...i spent the next three hours ( weeeee hours of the morning) ringing amsterdam..the police..you name it...
all the while the boys were sitting in the airport lounge in lisbon not realising there was whirlwind of panic going on!
i have never been so relieved when i got news that they had turned up
their mobile phones werent working for one..and they got the meeting time mixed up...

all good in the end..but id not want to go through that gutwrenching worry any time soon
i suggest you the pair with all types of scenarios so theres peace of mind for all

safe and happy travels for the two young ladies..and peaceful sleeps for you !

I see that mom hasn't been to Europe either, which gives me pause for preparing the girls for travel. There is much to be learned here--and lots of places, but real life when faced with these large cities is different. I truly think they would have more fun on a tour with others their age. That was my first trip to Europe a little older than they and it prepared me for all to come later.
And I don't think we've ever really discussed their budget. Just one glitch can send a budget into oblivion and then what happens.

"my son went years ago with a male friend ... i received a frantic phone call from friends sister worried that the boys had not met up with a friend in portugal...i spent the next three hours ( weeeee hours of the morning) ringing amsterdam..the police..you name it...
all the while the boys were sitting in the airport lounge in lisbon not realising there was whirlwind of panic going on!
i have never been so relieved when i got news that they had turned up
their mobile phones werent working for one..and they got the meeting time mixed up..."

This makes me remember the time when you left home and then there was no communication possible until you came back. The postcard arrived two days after your return :-)

18-year olds aren't the most responsible persons on earth but they're adults and they need to learn to make their own decisions. Typical European tourist centers are full of young people making the same experiences and they are quite certainly not the worst places to make some stupid decisions.

"And I don't think we've ever really discussed their budget. Just one glitch can send a budget into oblivion and then what happens."

Which is the reason why I question London and Paris.

If they always wanted to go there and see the attractions, no question, go there.

But if they are rather looking for the experience of a different culture, consider meeting other young people as similar important as the sights they'll and need to consider a budget, then an itinerary including considerable cheaper cities as Prague or Berlin might offer a better experience for them.

A vacation is just a Little bit nicer if your hostel is close to the city centre and if you think that you can pay the prices in a lot of the pubs and restaurants.

I don't agree with you about Paris being expensive, And if they plan, London can be affordable also. I can be on vacation in Paris cheaper than in my hometown, doing the eating out thing, etc.
If there are two of them, then can stay in hotels such as Ibis and split the cost for about the same amount.

And in London, if they are there in the summer, they can stay at the LSE student halls of residence: http://www.lsevacations.co.uk/Home.aspx

Central, and likely to be more fun than an Ibis!

One can visit fairly inexpensively in most places - barring Switz and Scandinavia. They should go where THEY really want to go - but they need to decide that - and figure out what is important to them.

And agree that we haven;t seen any budget numbers yet. Since the OP herself has not yet been to europe it would be interesting to see what budget has been allocated.