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Need help from Czech history experts
Please help me find my ancestral village. My great-grandparents came to the US from a town near Prague in 1892. I don't know the exact distance, but I would guess it to be 50 miles or less ("near" is the closest description I can get from family members). At that time the area was part of Austria and the name of the town was "Eichorn." I imagine since the area became part of Czechoslovakia in 1918 and then Czech Republic, the German-sounding name was changed to Czech. I've explored many internet search engines and can only find verification that there WAS an Eichorn - Winston and Clementine Churchill spent part of their honeymoon there circa 1908.
Does anyone know the name of the town formerly known as Eichorn? Or if there are any web sites that might be helpful in my search? Thank you much. |
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/w...sys~shtetlexp5
Hope this is helpful. 5 possibilities shown. I found this on Cyndi's List, a primo source for genealogists. http://www.cyndislist.com/czech.htm If Churchill honeymooned there, perhaps it was at one of the spa towns in Western Czech Republic (which then was part of Austria-Hungary) |
poohgirl:
The town of Ryzoviste, on the Polish Border, would be that small town (Braunseifen during the Austro-Hungarian Empire days)that was very close to the former small town of Eichorn (don't know what the name is now). It's also near Harrachov in the heart of the Silesian mountain region (The Krknose Mountains) in Northern Czech Rep....approximately 125 kms due north of Praha (Prague) (75 miles). This, by the way, is an exceptionally scenic area of the Republic and I have driven it two times in the past 10 years. It is within a National Park. Stu T. |
pooh: This old map of the Bohemian part of the Austro-Hungarian empire shows "Reishenberg at the top of the page...this is the general area you're seeking. Reichenberg was probably quite close to Braunseifen, today's Harrochov and Eichorn. It might have been the Austrian name for Harrochov.
FEEFHS Map Room: Austro-Hungarian Empire (1882): Bohemia (138K) Stu T. |
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The Austrian (German) name for Harrachov is Harrachsdorf. Reichenberg is Liberec today.
I live nearby in Germany and have not heard yet of Eichorn. I'll see if I can find it somewhere. |
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Great link, logos!
Well, then it must be Veverská Bítýška, a few km northwest of Brno in the region Moravia. |
Thank you so much Logos and everyone else. I really appreciate it. I would have looked a LONG time before I put together "Eichorn" and "Veverska Bityska." :D
Tomboy, I too had thought it might be one of the spa towns in the west. I'm going to CR in September and will be the first in my family to visit an actual area from where we came. That makes me even more excited about this trip than I was before. Again, thank you. You rock. |
Poohgirl:
I must beg to differ with Ingo <<Well, then it must be Veverská Bítýška, a few km northwest of Brno in the region Moravia>>. Eichorn, from all the information I passed on to you, is not a few kms northwest of Brno. It is, as I've written above, in the Krknose Mountains of northern CR...a very long way from Brno. If I uncover anything else, I'll be sure to write again.Good luck. Stu T. ([email protected]) |
See genealogy of former village in South Bohemia (German Eichorns, Czech Veveri) http://jihogen.ic.cz/veveri-sassmann.htm
Near of Brno is castle Veveri and towns Veverska Bityska and Veverske Kninice are nearby of the castle. Good luck. |
Oh well, nothing is ever as easy as it seems. Thanks, Stu, and I'll also do further checking, too.
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Pardon, tower, but I don't see a town with name Eichorn on this map. Could you please clarify what makes you sure this town is located near Reichenberg (Liberec) and Harrachsdorf (Harrachov)?
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Ingo:' It stems from Czech Genealogical charts that claim a town called Braunseifen during Austro-Hungarian control was nearby to a village named "Eichorn"...current Czech name for Braunseifen is Ryzoviste. Checking this (pardon the pun) it is in the Krkonose Mountains of CR, in the former Sudeten region of Silesia...thereby assuming on a preliminary basis that whatever was "Eichorn" is in the vicinty of that Ryzoviste.
However, turns out there is another Ryzoviste, near Bruntal and Rymanov about 60 kms north of Olomouc, or 135 kms NE of Brno . But there is no indication that it, too, was once named Braunseifen. Could be I'm wrong, you're wrong or we're both wrong. I intend to do some further research and will share. Afterall, it is Poohgirl who stands to benefit if we can solve this puzzle. Poohgirl, ask if your family members remember whether Eichorn was in mountainous country, or was it definitely in flatter Moravia rather than Bohemia. This would help us zero in on the right Ryzoviste. Seems that the Moravian Ryzoviste is about 280-300 miles east of Prague..and your guess is "50 miles"..that in itelf would indicate the Ryzoviste in the mountains, approximately 70-75 miles north. Don't you guys just love genealogical research! Stu T. |
That's interesting. I still doubt that "Eichorn" is located in the Krkonose - I live only a few km away, on the German side of the border and have travelled the region extensively. I never heard of a town or village with such a former German name (my native tongue is German and many Czech I met speak German).
By the way, the distance Praha - Brno is about 200 km. Praha - Liberec is 109 km. Neither is about 50 km. |
Mileage or kms..the OP has talked in terms of miles, so I was following suit...I did not consider Brno at all..but rather Bruntal where the second Ryzoviste is located. The distance from Bruntal to Praha is indeed about 270 kms or 160+ miles..I should have written kms. BUT, our purpose is not to nit pick here, Ingo..we merely want to help the poster (poohgirl) zero in on her ancestors village...I assume you agree.
Stu T. |
I absolutely agree. The reason why I needed to make this correction was to show that Veverská Bítýška is closer to Praha than you said. Distances are important because Poohgirl could not give us an exact number of miles/km but wrote: '"near" is the closest description I can get from family members'.
Maybe we should concentrate on Churchills biography. Did he write down something about the honeymoon? |
poohgirl,
my daughter-in-law is Czech and I have forwarded your inquiry on to her - expect to have an answer on Tuesday and will reply further then. in the meantime, suggest you follow up with the genealogy website listed below: you will find your way around it easily and you could perhaps list the same posting for both your ancestors/Eichorn in the Austria and German sectors of the site along with the Czech section I have given. http://genforum.genealogy.com/czech/ good luck .... Jay from Oz |
OK, Ingo..let's go to work...your suggestion to check out Churchill's biographies is a good one..maybe there will be an indication of his honeymoon. I hope he didn't smoke and chew his cigars at that romantic time of life!!
Stu T. |
I find these kind of puzzles interesting as I do research for a living (although not this kind).
However, I wonder if the Churchill connection would prove anything anyway. I think poohgirl just found that mention on Google (as did I) for Churchill, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the same Eichorn as her parents came from. Eichorn is a fairly common German name, isn't it, so there could be lots of towns by that name. That was just the only verification she found of any Eichorn, in Austria, that's all. The entire connection to Churchill could be meaningless. Now I found the Eichorn up near the ski resort and the mountains also on the web (I've been to Prague and Moravia, so was sort of interested) and would have bet it was that one, rather than the one near Brno (which I also found on the web). First, because it would be closer to Prague, although ancestors fuzzy description of something being "near" Prague could mean anything or be wrong, you know how that goes. However, if it were the place Churchill honeymooned, wouldn't it make more sense to be in the mountains than around Brno? I don't suppose it was a resort then, but maybe, that is when skiing resorts and holidays started up in Europe (I don't think Churchill skiied himself, he wasn't really a big sports buff). Wherever Churchill went, I don't think that means poohgirl's ancestors were from there--they were from some Eichorn in Austria and there were apparently at least two in what is now the Czech Republic. |
Christina:
Thank you for joining hte Z"help" crew for Poohgirl... I agree with your assessments...I, too, have traveled the old Czechoslovakia several times, and the new CR and Slovakia as well,,,the ski resort region is quite beautiful. Now, to nail down the "Eichorn" where Pooh's ancestors were from. I somehow cannot picture Winnie on skis! StuT. |
Poohgirl: Another submission. My Czech relative has come up with two towns/villages that may help you.
The jewishgenweb/ ShtetlSeeker is showing two towns/villages named EICHORN/EICHHORN, one in Austria, near Steyr, and one in Czech Republic which is now called Veveri and is South-East of the town of Rymarov. To find information on the towns in CR http://mesta.obce.cz The Czech phone book is at http://phone.quick.cz which may have the surname you are seeking listed therein. Successful searching. Jay |
I was away for several days and away from computers. I really do appreciate all your help in this - and for a relative stranger!
As to some of the questions asked - I'm afraid the 50 miles thing is a total guesstimate on my end. "Near Prague" is the most accurate I could get regarding distance. My thought was with transportation being what it was in those days anything beyond 50 miles would not be considered near. Unfortunately, any family member who had direct knowledge of that area is no longer alive. I rechecked family history notes and with family members to see if they could remember anything further, but they could not. Jay and Michal: Thank you for the web sites listed. When I get a bit more caught up after being away, I'll be sure to visit them. Stu, Christina, Ingo et al: Thanks very much for your help and insights. I've been impressed with many of your posts on Fodors, and I do thank you for using your brain power on my behalf. |
well, I don't suppose this is really relevant, but I did find out where Churchill honeymooned. I found out from the Churchill research center in Wash DC, where I live, and some documents at Churchill College in the UK.
Unless poohgirl knows "her" Eichorn is the same as Churchill's, it doesn't really matter, but for interest, I'll include it on this post. Churchill honeymooned at a private estate in Morvaia belonging to a good friend of his, Baron de Forest (aka "Touty", aka the Count de Bendern). This was a rich Englishman, I believe, who owned lots of estates and properties around Europe, this being one of them (also in Biarritz where Churchill also stayed). Churchill went to his Moravian estate several times because he liked the scenery and to go hunting on it. After the gaining independence from the Austrian-Hungarian empire in 1918, the Czech govt. took over the estates of some foreigners, and they took over Baron de Forest's estate in Moravia. Churchill wrote a letter to complain about that (of course, he liked the hunting -- not sure if that estate was from German gains). I don't know the current name of this Eichorn, which I think was the name of the place it was near, not the estate itself, but it was in Moravia and not that far from the current Austrian border. That would fit the mention of Veverska Bityska near Brno, perhaps. It is definitely not the one in the ski mountains. However, it still may not be the one poohgirl is seeking because it isn't near Prague. |
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