Navigation System Required or Not
 

We will be arriving in Frankfurt Germany and making our way South to Munich and over to Vienna. Normal tourist spots along the way. Do I need an in car Navigation system or do maps work fine?

Maps have worked for thousands of years.

Seriously, the German autobahns are well marked and easy to navigate.

"Maps have worked for thousands of years." So have candles.

I like knowing where I am, how long it's going to take to get where I'm going, and how much it will cost at what speed. But I'm not typical. I installed a trip management computer in my car in 1982.

Sure, you can get there with a map. But in the 21st century, being able continuously to pinpoint your position has its merits.

I've used GPS systems while driving in Europe and I've NOT used them (relying on paper maps instead).

The routes arew ell-marked in Germany as has been mentioned.

IMO maps work fine; GPS systems which are CURRENT work fine, too.

Having just returned from Europe and used a GPS, it was invaluable in rural areas and center cities. I can certainly remember in the past getting lost in the city of Munich because I couldn't find a street sign, was rerouted due to construction, etc.

Driving from Frankfurt to Munich, traveling the autobahns with a map, you should be just fine.

Having a GPS, you could preprogram your waypoints and let the GPS do the road mapping for you. Makes the navigator's job very easy. ((b))

The question was: &quot;Do I <b> need </b> an in car navigation system or do maps work fine?&quot;

The answer is: No, you do not need an in car navigation system. Good maps work fine.

If the question was: &quot;Will an in car navigation system be useful, or does it aid in trip routing and management?&quot; then my answer would have been 'yes'.

Oh, and another thing, you could be stuck on a stretch of Autobahn with a 10-20km parking lot. We ran into one of those in 2002, and it was extremely difficult reviewing a map to take back roads getting around the area. ((b))

&gt;back roads getting around the area.
That's what the &quot;U&quot; signs are for, they'll lead you to the next entry. Sometimes they're rather small, though.
http://www.training-for-germany.de/signs/z19/1010.html

A bit of further advice...GPS systems are not foolproof and if you are in unfamiliar territory and do decide to use a GPS it wouldn;t be a bad idea to HAVE a paper map backup.

Do you NEED a GPS...you already know that you don't (otherwise everyone would have them).

Do you NEED a paper map if your GPS fails..absolutely.

Hi J,

Of course you don't need a GPS.

How much extra will it cost?

((I))

If you want a GPS - get one. But you certainly don't &quot;need&quot; one. And as Dukey says - you'd be well served to have a road atlas/paper map too. If the GPS fails in any way (bum routes or a technical glitch or anything) you WILL want that handy dandy map.

Maps are great. I will continue to use them. GPS can be a good suppliment to map. Imagine yourself trying to drive and keeping an eye (despite voice response) on the GPS at a busy round-about. Maps also tell me what the surrounding areas are during planning for a trip, and at time of touring. We did not use GPS for the last four driving trips to Europe, and we did just fine.

Imagine yourself trying to drive and keeping an eye (without voice response) on the map at a busy round-about.

AutoRoute also tells me what the surrounding areas are during planning for a trip, and at time of touring. I can also selectively display any number of about 30 categories of Points of Interest.

We find computer mapping and GPS locating worthwhile enhancements to our touring experience.

Robes...have you EVER driven with the loaded laptop ALONE in the car?

If so, how did you get it to stay where you could easily see it?

Pre-GPS I rented a car &amp; drove over a lot of unfamiliar UK territory alone which is much more difficult than having someone navigating in the seat next to you but it can be done.

That said, these days with the technology available even with a navigator I'd use one.

My wife, as The Navigator, loves our GPS.

What did we ever do without cell phones. People got along just fine without them. :-) ((b))

Robes...have you EVER driven with the loaded laptop ALONE in the car? <b>Sure.</b>

If so, how did you get it to stay where you could easily see it? <b>Have you heard? They talk to you now.

&quot;Follow the roundabout, 2nd exit, on A3005.&quot;
&quot;Leave the roundabout on A3005/South Road.&quot;

You don't have to drive with your eyes glued to a GPS any more than to a map.</b>

I never opened one map on my past trip. My GPS did all the navigating for me:

<b>&quot;In 200 meters, enter roundabout.... (then near the roundabout) Enter roundabout and take the second exit.&quot;</b>

When getting off a major route, the GPS would tell me: <b>&quot;Bear off to the right in 500 meters, then take your next left....&quot;In 200 meters, bear off to the right, then take your next left.&quot;</b>

The GPS would then go into split screen as my wife would say: &quot;Exit here, then turn left&quot; as she was watching both the GPS and the road.

It really took a lot of stress out of driving around Europe. Can you get by with just a map -- yes.

As we approached the main road to Grindelwald, one of the bridges was washed out. The GPS told us to turn right. We saw that we couldn't go right, so, we turned left on the detour. In about 10 seconds, the GPS recomputed/recalculated and had us back on track. It was simply amazing. ((b))

We had GPS, lovingly referred to as Frau Unibrow, in our car last November in Germany and found it to be very helpful. It cost 9&euro; extra per day. (We rented through Auto Europe and arranged the GPS on arrival w/Avis).

Since we've got the GPS discussion going on this thread, I thought I might slide in a question:

I've used Microsoft Streets and Trips and the only complaint I've got is that even with every volume setting on my laptop turned up to the max, the voice instructions can be hard to hear over road noise. Any possible solutions for that, like a way to have my car radio pick up laptop audio?

I guess it depends on how good you are with maps. At 9 euro a day a GPS would have cost us around $120 on our recent trip. Thinking of the three times that it would have come in handy on that trip and saved us perhaps 30 minutes total, at $240 per hour saved I think I would keep the money.

But someone else might could think it money well spent to avoid frustration while on vacation.

That's one of the nice things about money, excluding that which the government takes, you can decide what you want to do with yours that will give you the most pleasure or utility.

I just returned from a trip to some rural areas of Italy. My GPS (Garmin) was extremely helpful. We don't mind getting lost at times but it was certainly comforting knowing we could always find our way.

My navigator (my wife) is not good at map reading and I've spent a lot of frustrating time in years past trying to get from point A to point B! I bought a Garmin GPS and it was a great step in the right direction but it too, had its limitations such as having to load and unload maps frequently because of limited memory. I recently bought what is generally regarded as the new benchmark freestanding navigational GPS . . . the Tom-Tom 910. It has complete maps of the USA and Europe, plus a few others that I'll never use, preloaded. It 'speaks' in several languages with a whole list of various 'voices' as well as selected computer voices. I've preloaded several planned itineraries into the GPS and have done dry runs and have been blown away with what it can do. Bluetooth technology allows for playing back your MP3 music files (12 G free space!) through the car audio system. It is even possible to select from points of interest, such as restaurants, hotels, etc. and tell the GPS to connect you via cell phone, all hands free. For a nominal subscription fee you can have instant access to up-to-the-minute traffic and detour information as well as weather conditions.

I am totally amazed at the number and accuracy of the POIs preloaded into this GPS. I guess that being a product of PALM coming out of the Netherlands could have something to do with this.

If the Tom-Tom 910 works as well in Europe as it has so far here in the States I'll be able to leave my wife home from now on!

Looks like you have one of the top-of-the-line GPS systems. Most features you describe I would never use, so I wouldn't need to pay for them. But, they do work well in Europe.

They are great, but I must bring my wife -- the designated driver thingy. :-) ((b))

Thank you for all for the great posts. I think I may splurge the 8 euros a day for peace of mind. (It's vacation)I'll bring the maps too.

In my experience, the train engineers always know how to get to the desination. No navigation system needed. Just take the train and don't worry.

Hey Larryincolorado, lighten up a little! The original inquiry was for help in choosing between a GPS or maps to navigate around Europe, not which mode of transportation is preferable. But as long as you bring it up . . . if you have traveled Europe strictly by train over the years you've deprived yourself of some wonderful opportunities OR have had to endure a variety of alternative modes of transport, schedules and luggage schlepping to get to some of the best places in Europe.

JOE68, stick to your intuition . . . get a car; don't be affraid to get off the beaten track (OR the train track). The total freedom to go and come at your own pleasure is well worth it. As for either maps or GPS . . . maps worked just fine for us in Europe over the years but the new generation GPS systems, to me, are a quantum leap forward.

Trains don't need maps or GPS because they can only go where the tracks go! Sorry Larryincolorado, the original poster has the right idea; don't sidetrack his pioneering enthusiasm and development!

You should visit the &quot;control tower&quot; on open day. Impessive there's a zillion ways to make a train go the wrong way. :D The engineer on board doesn't even know for sure on which platform he'll be arriving.

&gt;Trains don't need maps or GPS because they can only go where the tracks go!

With the train tracks going almost everywhere this is not a big problem :-)

&gt;With the train tracks going almost everywhere this is not a big problem&lt;

The operative word here is 'almost'. I would say that about 75% of the places we visit in Europe are no where near any train tracks; so it IS a big problem. I can get to anyplace where there are train tracks with a car but a train cannot get to most of the kinds of places we frequent without finding alternative modes of transport; which sometimes don't even exist!

Getting back to the first request for info on a nav system in Germany, I would really recommend it. No-one it seems has spoken about the benefits of finding a hotel easily while driving on the opposite side of the road (that you are used to). This is true of big cities and small where you may not be staying in the 'main drag'. We found the nav system invaluable.

pef,

I can’t speak for all of Europe as most of my 12 weeks of leisure travel have been in Germany. However, I can say that your assessment of travel, as it applies to Germany is incorrect, perhaps biased.

I have traveled all over southern Germany, picking my places not by accessibility to trains, but where I wanted to go. And with a modest ability to speak the language, I have felt free to go to many very “backwater” places. I have never found a place where I wanted to stay (80+ nights) that I could not get to by train. From these places I have traveled to many surrounding sights by train or by bus. For instance, I have on several occasions stayed for a week in a small town in the upper Allg&auml;u and from there gone by train and/or bus to Oberstdorf, Kleinwalsertal, Lindau, F&uuml;ssen, and Bolsterlang, to name a few places.

For the first four trips to Germany in this century, I saved enough by using rail instead of renting a car to completely pay for my fifth trip to Germany, including air fare to/from the U.S., twice over. Effectively, for what 8 weeks would have cost me by car, I will get nearly 12 weeks.

I recommend to anyone to first THOROUGHLY research where you want to go and what the options are with public transportation. Only if you can’t get to where you absolutely have to go, should you consider renting a car.

I don't have a car and I know there is a bus stop in almost every place, but I have experienced numerous week ends in the Allg&auml;u and in Franken waiting at bus stations on sunday mornings to get home. I doubt, tourists go tho those places, but if they do sitting at a tiny bus stop &quot;somewhere in the pampa&quot; for 2 hours with nothing to do, they might consider hitchhiking. I remember my &quot;sessions&quot; at the bus stop as well as those parties when you have to leave before midnight because there are no more busses or trains before 7.30 am the next morning (And I'm talking about suburban Munich here) :-)

Yes, you can probably go just about anywhere in Germany by taking trains and busses, but I think the optimum word is &quot;convenience.&quot; I don't want to wait for 1-2 hours for the next train/bus. I don't want to cart my luggage on trams, busses, and thru trains stations. I like to getty up and go when I want to go. For me, the convenience outweighs any costs. ((b))

We just returned from 3 weeks in Bavaria. I drove a borrowed car from Bavaria to southern Switzerland and &quot;around and about&quot; in Bavaria. The large scale maps (available everywhere) are incredibly detailed; but you DO need a good &quot;map-reading navigator&quot; (it helps if they have some familiarity with the language... not for translation purposes but because they can more quickly identify what the signs MEAN) because there are so many signs and they come at you so fast you'll easily suffer from &quot;information overload&quot;. But it can be done and isn't really all that difficult.

We also rode the trains... a family of four. They had a deal where, for 27 euro, you could buy a family day pass for the entire system (except for the high-speed, premiere trains). That works out to about $40 for 5 people or $8 per day each!... unlimited. And the train system has to be experienced to be believed. You can't buy these tickets from North America however but must get them locally....NOT a problem since any German airport also has a train station attached! (and the clerks can help because they almost all speak English...especially at the airports). And &quot;Yes&quot;, the trains literally DO go everywhere...even little, two-bit villages 'out in the boonies'.

It's true that you will be stuck to the train schedules... but the time you save over driving (in most cases... Bavaria is a bit difficult since track routing is dictated by the mountain range orientation) and being able to look at the scenery instead of the bicycle you might be following pays for itself.

Gasoline was running 1.34 euro/litre in Germany, 1.17 in Austria and the equivalent (about 1.8) in Swiss Francs. That's another cost to consider when travelling by car.

Tootsall, the family day pass to which you refer is the &quot;Bayern Ticket&quot;, and it is indeed a great deal. If you travel off the beaten path, all of the travel is by regional trains anyway. Even if there are express trains, they often take a different route which is no faster.

The Bayern Ticket costs &euro;27 at ticket counters, but it is only &euro;25, and probably faster, from a ticket automat. If you are in Bavaria, you can use the blue and off-white &quot;Nahverkehr&quot; automats. You select the Bayern Ticket with one of the buttons near the bottom of the two columns of button slightly right of center. You can also use one of the red, touch screen, Fernverkehr automats, which are in most stations. It is a bit more complicated, but you can select it to display in English.

The car vs. train argument is a lost cause; some prefer trains, some prefer cars. There is no right or wrong answer. I prefer trains in some counties and cars in others, such as Germany. Go with what you are comfortable with.

I personally wouldn't feel the need to pay extra for the GPS in Germany. The roads are so easy to follow, and any good map would do just fine. We only had problems a few times, and figured them out pretty quickly. However, 9 euro per day is a good price, so if it makes you feel more comfortable go for it.

Tracy

&gt;since any German airport also has a train station
Hamburg comes to mind first ;-)

Yeah, pick almost any airport in Germany that is served by RyanAir (Weeze, Hahn, Altenburg, Karlsruhe) and it is almost guaranteed not to have access by rail. Most of the rest will. I guess rail access to the airport is just one more thing to look for when flying into any country in Europe. You don’t want to fly into an airport without rail access.

So, now the optimal word is &quot;convenience&quot;. Last week the optimal word was accessibility.

I guess convenience is in the mind of the beholder.

As for carting my luggage on buses and trams, as I said, I have always been able to get to my over night destination by train - no buses or trams, no inconvenience.

Second, since I am, for very good reasons, averse to checking luggage on flights, my one, regulation size and weight, carry-on bag is hardly an inconvenience.

On the other hand, I don't have to worry about watching the road instead of scenery while driving or finding a parking space or about my bags being stolen from my hatchback (the least expensive rental cars) when I do park.

Lastly, because I have done my research and know the schedules, I don't wait for 1-2 hours for trains or buses. I know when the train arrives and I am ready. My trips go like clockwork.

And I don't have to bring along maps or need an expensive GPS system to keep from getting lost. I don't have to worry about someone dinging my fender or taking off the side view mirror.

&quot;Convenience&quot; is just another excuse care renters use because they don't want to learn the schedules for public transportation. I have said all along that those who rent cars do so because they don't want to plan.

But, you can save so much money by not renting a car. Next spring, when I enjoy my second &quot;free&quot; trip to Germany, I will try to remember how inconvenient it is.