My Ireland ITINERARY: please add a wee bit of magic!
 

Here's our NEW updated itinerary for our first visit to Ireland for next June/July 2006. Travelling with biologist hubby and 2 lovely lively daughters, 19 and 20.

Please help me add a wee bit of magic! Suggestions welcome.

A big "Irish" thanks for your help on my other posts.

ITINERARY:

FLY into SHANNON
Rent car. Drive to Lisdoonvarna.

3 nights: LISDOONVARNA
(Daytrips: Cliffs of Moher; The Burren; Dunguaire castle medieval banquet).

4 nights: DINGLE
(Day-trips: Dingle Peninsula; Great Blasket Island; Killarney National Park nature walk.)

2 nights: GALWAY or CASHEL?
POSSIBLE Galway Activities: step-dancing show at Siamsa; Kenny's Bookshop; Connemara day trip.
POSSIBLE Cashel activities: Rock of Cashel; day-trip to nearby Caher Castle

2 nights: TRIM
(Activities: Trim Castle; Newgrange day-trip).

3 nights: NORTHERN IRELAND:
Need hotel in Belfast, Bangor, or Newtownards;
(Activities: Visit Belfast and Lurgan where my Irish grandmother lived; Ulster Folk and Transport Museum; Muckross House and Gardens).

1 night: DUBLIN
(Activities: Book of Kells or National Museum or Killmainham Gaol or Dublin Writer's Museum or Grafton St.)

FLY HOME from Dublin!

Suggestions? Should our stopover be in Galway or Cashel? Also, should we have 2 nights in Dublin and only 1 night in either Galway or Cashel? Or vice versa?

MANY THANKS!

Oopsie...that's CAHIR Castle in County Tipperary...NOT "Caher" Castle.

I just found out using the aa site for driving times that there's "Cahir" in County Tipperary and there's "Caher" in Galway.

Melissa,

You will actually find "Cahir", of the town and castle of Cahir, spelled "Caher" on the Irish maps, too. It really depends on how old the map is and who printed it. I'm not even 100% which is correct though I use "Cahir" more often than not. Either way, say "care" when talking about it and you will be fine!

I think that you should go to Galway for your stop over. I know it is really just around the corner from Clare but I really think your daughters will enjoy the town of Galway and shopping, hubby will enjoy the Connemara and you will enjoy just being there - not to mention the bookshop!

Galway is a college town so there's lots of young adults around. Plenty to see and do, many lovely little town you can stay in and, perhaps, taking a trip out to the Aran Islands. I wouldn't stay in Galway town itself but out further in the country. You can even make a day trip to Cashel and/or Cahir from Galway if you stick to the main roads there and back. It would make for a long day but I know you guys will be up early anyway!

I think your family should stay in the town where your grandmother was born and take a day trip to Belfast. If you are searching for family you will have a better chance of finding someone who knew her or the family in the town she was born in. (FYI, you have listed to visit Muckross House and Gardens in NI but that place is actually in Killarney. Probably a typo but thought you'd like to know...)


Your trip is almost ready! I'm so happy for you.

Wendy

Your itinerary looks well thought out, and not too hectic. Me and my group (8 females) will be in Ireland around the same time next year (last week of June, first week of July) and will be in some of the same places, just at opposite times.

The Rock of Cashel is truly impressive, and they have a nice cultural museum next to it (underground!) but if I had to choose two days, I would rather choose Galway.

When you do your Newgrange daytrip, don't miss two other ancient sites nearby. The Hill of Tara is south of Newgrange, and is where Irish kings have been crowned for over 1000 years. Also, right near Newgrange (maybe 10 minutes away) are some prehistoric burial mounds that you can actually crawl into. They are much more 'personal' than the imposing structure of Newgrange.

You will have a wonderful time!

WENDY: Yeah, I blew it, I meant Mt. Stewart in Northern Ireland, NOT Muckross House! Oopsie...

GREENDRAGON: If you get to the pubs ahead of us, save us some Guiness! I have to sample that (research for my trip report of course.) Have fun!

Galway or Cashel, tough choice! Both sound good. I lean one way...then the other...

I have juggled my itinerary a bit and came up with this:

Fly into Shannon.

3 nights: LISDOONVARNA
--Burren, Cliffs of Moher, Galway day-trip

3 nights: DINGLE PENINSULA

1 night: KILLARNEY
--stay in hotel close to park entrance...Killarney National Park nature walk for hubby.

1 night: CASHEL
--Rock of Cashel; Bru Boru traditional Irish music & dance show.

2 nights: TRIM
--Trim Castle; Newgrange

3 nights: NORTHERN IRELAND
--visit places Irish grandmother lived

2 nights: DUBLIN
--Killmainham Gaol; Book of Kells; National Museum; Grafton St.

FLY HOME from Dublin!

How does that sound? It fits in both Galway and Cashel (maybe).

Are there any authentic traditional Irish music & dance shows in Galway? You know, that aren't too hokey? The one at Bru Boru Centre sounds promising...

Cashel is a little closer to Trim than Galway is...which means we could get to Trim a little earlier from Cashel...

It's sure hard to eliminate great-sounding places. How do you all decide?!

Melissa,

So, now you know why I go back to Ireland every time I get the chance; there is just NO WAY to see it all in one trip... not unless you plonk yourself down for a good year or two! lol

I think your adjusted itinerary looks fine. I know you don't like the one night stays but you will fit in a lot more with just the few you do have plus everyone gets to see and do stuff that particularly interests them. Your one night stays are right in the middle of your trip so it's not like you will be rushing around at the very end or the whole entire time. It's a good balance for the 4 of you, I think.

There are several dance shows that you can partake in including Siama (sp?) in Galway, Ragus on Inishmor (Aran Islands), song and dance at the various medieval banquets like those held in Bunratty & Knappogue Castles and I'm sure a few others around during the summertime. I'd do a Google serach and see what comes up.

As for staying in Cashel to be closer to Trim, yes it is closer in distance but the roads between them are not as good; not nearly as good as the main one between Galway and Dublin anyway. So while it may be less in distance it is not necessarily less in time. (You'll see that TheAA.com puts Galway to Trim as being 114.1 miles and taking 2h37m while Cashel to Trim is 105 but 2h 24m - either way you are looking at 3+ hours to get from one place to another. If it's only time you are worried about then each location is about equal to the other. Main road from Galway will be a bit quicker...)

Cheers,
w

Hi WENDY, so you really seem to think that we'll miss out on something if we don't include GALWAY? Even if we only get 1 night in Galway?

I guess the drive times are more similar than I thought for Cashel and Galway.

I'm so torn on this! Such a delicious problem...Galway or Cashel?

So, why do you love Galway? What would you do in Galway if you had only 1 night there? I am intrigued by Kenny's Bookshop and the Siamsa for Irish music and dancing.

But on the other hand, as I mentioned, if I use Cashel as the 1-night stop we might be able to squeeze in Galway as a day-trip when we have our 3-night stop in Lisdoonvarna.

What do you mean when you say the roads aren't as good between Cashel and Trim? Are they narrow country lanes with pot-holes and pebbles? What is the road between Galway and Trim like?

What does your hubby love about Galway?Some people don't like Galway and think it's a mini-version of Dublin.

The reason I am reducing the Galway or Cashel stop to 1 night is I think I will regret not seeing the historically significant sights of the Killmainham Gaol and the National Museum. Plus there's the Dublin Writer's Museum, and the Book of Kells, and I'm a book-lover and writer! Have you seen those two, Wendy? So I think Dublin needs a 2-night stop, which only leaves 1 night for Galway or Cashel.

Wendy, what would we do without you, you are a fountain of Irish information! Thanks!

Hello, Melissa5 -- regarding roads to Trim: yes, they can be narrow little roads without clear directional signs (but what else is new!). At any rate, as Wendy and the other regulars say, allow for getting lost and enjoy the experience --we did encounter pleasant folk along the way!!

I think you can skip Galway. There, I gave you permission! Its a neat town with some hustle and bustle, but you'll have that in Dublin and Belfast. 3 nights in Dingle is plenty, in my opinion. Rock of Cashel is a must see. There's a b&b in Cashel that has working sheepdog demonstrations, I wish I'd stayed there when I went. (can't remember the name of it, tho...) If you need a hotel in Belfast, we had a very nice two night stay at the Holiday Inn Belfast. Sometimes in the middle of a long trip across the pond, a nice American-style hotel is a treat. The pool was gorgeous, the rooms nice and staff helped us book a black taxt tour.
http://www.belfast.holiday-inn.com/bfsoa/photo_03.html

Hi there. My husband and I just returned from a cycling vacation in Western Ireland with 4 days in Dublin in early July 2005. We had a fantastic time and can offer some advice on your itinerary. Lisdoonvarna-we had the best time listening to live music at The Spa Hotel (amusing storyteller Tom is there most nights and plays with the informal group) and The Roadhouse. We stayed at Sheedy's Country House right in town. I highly recommend splurging on a gourmet dinner in the restaurant at Sheedy's one night. John Sheedy is the owner/chef and his wife Martina is the hostess. Near Lisdoonvarna is The Burren Centre in Kilfenora which also has an interesting old church ruin, St. Fachtnan's. Since your husband is a biologist, we were very impressed with our two-hour walking tour to get the lowdown on the history, flora and fauna of the Burren with one of the natives, Shane Connolly. More info at: http://homepage.eircom.net/~burrenhillwalks/guide.html. Shane is brilliant and fascinating to listen to, although you have to put up with his sarcastic sense of humor:). If you are driving around it is worthwhile to drive the Coast Road from The Burren up through Ballyvaughan (lovely lunch at An Fear Gorta Tearoom if it's open) and then to fabulous old Corcomroe Abbey nearby. You asked whether it is worthwhile to stay in Galway for two days. That is my preference over Dublin. You can do a lot of shopping in the city centre and the shops were more charming (more chain stores in Dublin). Galway is a young city due to the # of University students and your daughters will enjoy it. Galway is also famous for oysters and our guide recommended Cooke's Wine Bar and Restaurant in the city centre-my husband thought the oysters were the best he had ever eaten. We stayed there for an overnight before taking the ferry from Rossaveal to Inishmor for another overnight on the island. I highly recommend staying in Galway for a few days so that you can have at least one day on the Aran Islands (where you can rent cycles, walk, or hire cabs). We had lunch at the Man of Aran on the north side of the island near Kilmurvey - a thatched-roof cottage with a view of the ocean - cheese toasts and seafood bisque with rhubarb crisp for dessert! One of our most fantastic vacation experiences was to see the young adult group, Ragus, perform in the small community theater on Inishmor the night we stayed there. We paid 10 Euros each and it was better than any Riverdance experience we have had -- the parents of the dancers and musicians were in the audience cheering them on. See info about this group at http://www.ragusonlinesales.com/about.asp. The Connemara day trip is important. This is beautiful country and so different from the Burren. We took Sky Road out of Clifden and saw some breathtaking views. Our days in Dublin were enjoyable but after having spent 10 days in the country we found the city a little tiring, hectic, and noisy. We stayed at The Schoolhouse Hotel which was in a quiet residential neighborhood yet close to walking to the major sites or to a bus stop for one of the "hop on/hop off" buses that drop you off at the various sites, too. Book of Kells is a must, especially if you spend the time going through the exhibit prior to the viewing to understand the feat it took to create this book so many centuries ago. The Gaol was more interesting to us than the National Museum. I also suggest seeing a play at one of the theaters for which Dublin is known. Grafton Street can be seen in a few hours - the people watching is fun. Your daughters will love Temple Bar and the nightlife that goes on there - it's pretty lively and Dublin is a very young city, too. I hope this helps and you don't mind my going on and on about food -- I was very impressed with the quality of the food in the restaurants compared to my last trip there 10 years ago.

Another "vote" for Galway. You could drop one night in Dingle, to make room. Your husband will enjoy even a small bit of the Connemeara and your girls will find Galway City much to their liking. I'm personally very fond of the Spanish Quarter and The Quay Pub, though there are several others as good. Eyrie Square is undergoing a rebuild, so it won't be much to look at. We have always stayed at the Jury's Inn beside the Wolfe Tone Bridge over the River Corrib. It is an unremarkable, US-style hotel, quite reasonably priced, but it has stunning views of the river and Galway Bay. There is a parking garage beside and connected to it. When you exit the garage, you are on Quay Street, less than 100 feet from the Quays Pub and the Claddaugh Museum and jewelry store, and just across the road from the Spanish Arch.
As Wendy says, this is why we keep going back.
Bob

Itallian_Chauffeur: There you go again, Bob, sprinkling your magic everywhere on us fodorites. Sincere thanks!

Oh no, Bob, don't tempt me with Galway...it's like having that third helping of cheesecake when you know one is enough and 2 is far too many and 3...well... Trouble is I have already included Dublin and Belfast in our itinerary and want some time in the countryside. Dublin has a lot of history and I don't see how I can leave Dublin out. It's tempting to leave Belfast out but the spirit of my Irish grandmother is calling...she was born and raised in County Armagh and Belfast, Northern Ireland.

Everyone has told me that means I must go there, though other places sound more appealing. If I keep Belfast and nearby areas in, I will either end up having a real spiritual reunion with my Irish ancestors, and it will be the highlight of my trip, or else I will get to Belfast, see that there isn't any trace of my grandmother left, and I will wonder what I am doing there. That is very much what I am afraid will happen. After all she did leave Belfast and came to "America", so for all I know her spirit is haunting the Cliffs of Moher or the pubs in County Clare...how do I know where I will find her? She might even have gone to Croppy's Acre to scold the ghosts of the English soldiers...

I suppose I could take one night away from Dingle, but here's what I learned on our trip to Italy...Your favorite place often turns out to be that well-researched placed where you spent the most time. 2 nights on the Dingle Peninsula is really only 1 full day. 3 nights gives us 2 full days.

I am still tempted to give up Northern Ireland all together, and put those 2 nights somewhere else...such as in Galway/Connemara. Or Kenmare/Beara Peninsula. I very much regret I had to take the little Ceim Hill Museum near Skibbereen out of my itinerary...just the kind of non-touristy place I want to visit.

But this is probably the one time I will ever be in Ireland with my 2 daughters...Shouldn't we see where their ancestors came from together? (However I don't know where grandmother's Irish father's ancestors lived...for all I know, he could be from another county, Cork or Galwy, and might only have moved to Northern Ireland after he married to get work and raise his kids...I think he worked in the linen industry...

Thanks for putting up with my babbling. I have always felt a strong connection with Ireland and am very excited to be going there. But I have never felt drawn to Belfast area in particular...in fact it seems a bit intimidating and probably too industrial for my tastes. Belfast is a big city and grandmother always enjoyed the countryside, so maybe she doesn't want me to visit Belfast...(Do you hear me trying to talk myself out of this?)

Have to stop babbling now! thanks for listening and for all your great info.

SFORMBY: What did you do in Belfast and what was your reaction to visiting Belfast? Was the black taxi tour worth including Belfast in your itinerary? Thanks for the permission to skip Galway, you're funny! May I have permission to skip Belfast instead?!

What do you think...Are the Irish up in Northern Ireland, Belfast and surrounding areas, different from the Irish in the Republic? If there are any Irish reading this, what do you think? In the USA we have regional differences, although that is a generalization, you will generally find southern Californians to be different from New Yorkers, for example. Honestly, I am truly searching for my beloved Irish grandmother's spirit, and I'm not so sure I will necessarily find her spirit only in Belfast...Does this make sense to anyone else who might have done some geneology research, travelled to Ireland, and what did you find? Did you really connect with the place of your Irish relative's birth, or did someplace else in Ireland speak more strongly to you?

I'm filled with indecision because I have done all my research and now it's time to commit to the final itinerary and make the B&B/hotel reservations.

GARDENERCAROL: Thanks for sharing about your fantastic trip. You have been to Lisdoonvarna, Ballyvaughan, and Doolin...I am still debating where to stay...We want to be in a B&B or small hotel close enough to the Burren for biologist hubby to have early morning walks before breakfast. But also we want to be conveniently located to visit fun pubs with trad music in the evening and not have too long a drive in the dark back to B&B. Of course we also want to see Cliffs of Moher. Hard to know which village is best for our needs...Considering Lisdoonvarna, Doolin, Ballyvaughan, and also found Fergus View (B&B) in Kilnaboy, Corofin.

I want to see Ragus on Inishmore too, you are tempting me...I read about that and now you say it was a highlight! Of course that would require 2 nights near Galway area...which would mean subtracting 2 nights from somewhere else. My updated itinerary looks like this:

Fly into Shannon.
3 nights: County Clare (1 B&B)
3 nights: Dingle Peninsula (1 B&B)
1 night: Cashel (stopover)
3 nights: Trim (Trim, Newgrange)
2 nights: Belfast and nearby
2 nights: Dublin

Or else:
1 night: Cashel
3 nights: Dingle peninsula
3 nights: County Clare
2 nights: Belfast and nearby
5 nights: Dublin and nearby (Trim, Newgrange) (1 hotel)

OOps, out of time, thanks very much fr everything.

Melissa:

Version 2 would involve a terribly long drive from Clare to Belfast and I wouldn't recommend it. It would be a whole day of driving basically.

Here are a couple of suggestions/ thoughts. You seem to be bent on going to Cashel which is fine but I wouldn't let it define my trip. It's a very impressive place, but there are lots of very impressive places in Ireland.

If you want to go to the Inishmore, consider spending the night there. It also may help to try to plan your time there as a weeknight as opposed to a weekend. It's a little less crowded then. There was a thread that talked about Ragus and it's comparisons (http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34558239). I finally made it out to Inishmore and truly enjoyed it. You can catch a boat from Doolin as long as the weather is good. When we went, the wind was very high and we ended up driving around to the airport at Inveran. That turned out to be great and the flight was only 10 minutes. With four of you, I believe you get a discount. We got the whole plane as there were 9 of us. The crowds completely thin out in the evening and with long days, it should provide lots of opportunity to enjoy.

Consider this option also:
3 nights Dingle, (take the ferry to Clare)
2 nights Clare 1 night Inishmore.
If you stay at the Atlantic View house in Doolin (I know, it's on the wrong end) the owners are also the owners of Doolin ferries and you can find out info on sailing times. You might want to actually make your middle night in Clare the one you spen on the islands. Try to pack a nights worth of stuff into as little baggage as you can take and ask if the B&B owners will let you leave you other bags. I would suspect they would at the Atlantic View house. BTW, the view for the Atlantic view is spectacular. most of the rooms face the Cliffs of Moher.
2 nights Trim - from Clare to Trim, stop at Clonmacnoise, a VERY worthy replacement to Cashel.
3 nights NI - this deserves more time. The coast north of Larne is spectacular and the roads are generally much better than in the RoI so travel will be much quicker. If you have a clear day and can make it up to the Torr Rd, you would have the joy of being able to see the Mull of Kintyre in Scotland. Quite a sight.
2 nights Dublin

Oooh look, an extra night left over! Spend it where you want. Could you fit in Cashel? Well yes, but I might go with two nights Dingle two night Kenmare instead at the beginning. I find Clonmacnoise more magical (perhaps due to it's beautiful setting on the Shannon) than the Rock. That's just me though. Cashel is certainly beautiful.

Too many options and opions eh? I know. You might want to start planning your next trip now.

Bill

Wojazz3, how nice of you to take the time to write. How did you end up with an extra night in my itinerary? I always end up short a night when I play with it!

I'm not actually bent upon going to Cashel in particular, Bill. I just need a stopover for the long drive between Dingle and Trim, I am told. It seems that either Cashel or Galway would make a convenient stopover. I wasn't sure if I needed to see Galway, Dublin, and Belfast, as we're not particularly city people...that's 3 big cities. Though Galway does sound lively and tempting and has Kenny's bookshop and I LOVE bookshops!!!

Well thanks for warning me that it would be a terribly long drive from County Clare to Belfast, I'll cross that idea off. Good to know.

Thanks so much for the thread comparing Ragus to other dance shows. I read it and then posted a new question as I think folks out there must have more info comparing all the Irish dance shows. I'm very eager to fit one in, and not sure which one is worth actually planning the itinerary around it! (Ragus on Inishmore; a Galway show; Bru Boru at Cashel; Dun Laoghaire; anything in Dublin or Belfast, haven't heard of anything; Bunratty...touristy show or worthwhile?)

Thanks for reminding me you can get to Inishmore from Doolin. Is Inishmore worth the time on a first trip to Ireland? I'm looking for authentic, non-touristy Ireland, with down-to-earth folks, but I must entertain my 2 young adult daughters and biologist hubby as well. A tall order!

Clonmacnoise vs. Cashel: I must know why you prefer Clonmacnoise, as I have heard few comments about it and many about Cashel! (I don't know if the Rock would be impressive for us...I can't tell from what I've read. I can tell we will like Dingle and Dingle Peninsula and Dublin and Cliffs of Moher, but the Rock? Not sure actually. Now thanks to you I get to run and get my books and look up Clonmacnoise. What town does one stay in for a stopover night at Clonmacnoise?

Thanks for having patience with my questions Bill! How many trips to Ireland have you had?

Bill, one more question. (Anybody who wants to answer I'd love opinions!)

Since I need a stopover night between Dingle and Trim, and I am so undecided, can you tell me which stopover (and which drive) would warm the heart of my biologist hubby? Dingle/Cashel/Trim, or Dingle/Galway/Trim, or Dingle/Clonmacnoise/Trim? I should mention he's not interested in pretty scenery, he's hoping to ceck out some interesting plants or wildlife, though he realizes (to his dismay) Ireland isn't a biologist's dream trip.

Also, I assume Clonmacnoise doesn't have a dance show. What about compring the dance shows available at Galway and Cashel? Oops, that's 2 questions!

Many thanks.

Well, my suggestion was to switch the order and do Dingle (and perhaps Kenmare) 1st and then you would have the shorter drive from Clare to Trim which could be done in a day. I think that would be doable even with a stop at Clonmacnoise.

Why does Cashel get more press? Well, it's on the main road from Dublin to Cork, it's on the way to the SW which is the most heavily traveled section of Ireland and you frankly, can't miss it when you drive by. This makes it more popular and easier to get to with bus tours. Clonmacnoise on the other hand, is in the "midlands", not on a main road and thus a little harder to get to. It is not in a city and there is no sign of any dancing. I think it's location is stunning, the history behind it is amazing and it's one of the earliest Christian sites in Ireland. Indeed, I didn't visit until my 4th trip (I've done 7) and then I approached by boat from the Shannon. That was a very special experience by the way. Again, I don't really think you would have to stopover if you started from Clare. It's probably about 3 more hours from Dingle, so I suggest going to Dingle first.

Don't get me wrong, the Rock of Cashel is quite impressive and if you have a serious interest in early Christianity in Ireland, it is an important stop. Still Clonmacnoise is .... well more magical to me. Maybe perhaps because you can't see the N8 cruising by from it's vantage points.

Kenmare is a lovely little village, perhaps my favorite in Ireland. I stumbled upon it on my first trip when I ran out of light and decided to stay there. A relatively small village with lots of places to eat, stay and some shopping (the shopping is not my strong suit).

I think that staying on Inishmore for a night would be as non-touristy as you can get in a trip that includes much of what you are doing. The evenings there are very quiet as most of the tourist take the boat back to the mainland. Certainly there are signs of tourism but to give you an idea, they have one bank and it's only open a couple of hours one day a week. They just got their first ATM in the last year or so. A trip to Dun Aengus is well worth it. With a group of four, you can probably find a nice fellow with a mini van to give you a private tour for not a whole lot of money. We got a ride to our B&B and a tour for E10 per person when we went which wasn't a bad deal. I don't think that it matters that it is a first trip or not (our 1st visit was on our 7th trip), it is well worth it.

You can probably catch a dance show or two in Dublin though I've never looked. Johnny Fox's south of Dublin apparently puts on a fun show and I believe that there is fairly easy transportation to there.

Just a sampling of pages about Clonmacnoise:
http://www.lawrencetown.com/clonmac.htm

http://www.moytura.com/clonmacnoise.htm

http://www.iol.ie/~mcgibbon/clon/

I hope this is helpful. There are always too many choices when you are traveling to Ireland. It's why we are planning out 8th trip this May.

Bill

Bill, you are a font of wisdom. Thanks for the links and I will check those out. Since you're planning your 8th trip, I'm curious...how would you suggest I plan a 14-night itinerary in Ireland, flying into Shannon and out of Dublin? Your choice of sites? With a good balance between must-see sights for the first visitor and those delightful bits of hidden Ireland you love. It's always interesting to comtemplate an itinerary suggested by an experienced traveller.

In other words, the question is, Bill, now that you have taken 7 trips to Ireland, how would you have re-done your first trip to make it the best first trip to Ireland?

Hi there,

I was looking through your itinerary and it looks great... i run private tours of Ireland and cant see any fault in it... i would recommend ladyswell house in cashel beside the Bru Boru if you are interested in staying locally in a great B&B... enjoy Ireland

Hi Melissa,

Firstly, Belfast is NOT a big city, however it is an industrial one but did't your ancestors work in the Ship Yard?

From what I rememember from your previous posts the townland in Lurgan where your grandmother came from is now demolished and it and others are now replaced by a rather ugly city called Craigavon.

NI is different to the Republic both in scenery and the people but that does not mean it is an unpleasant place to visit or that the people are unfriendly - just different.

I live approx 3 miles south of the centre of Belfast in a village called Edenderry. It is an old mill village on the banks of the Lagan and the area has been taken over by the National Trust. There are cows in the fields around me and squirrals in my back garden (well, until my dog sees them and chases them off). The Lagan tow path runs through the village and stretches from Belfast to Lisburn about 6 miles away, You would honestly think you were in the middle of the countryside yet Belfast town centre is a mere 10 mins away by car.

8 miles South of Belfast is Hillsborough which is a beautiful village, Hillsborough Castle (really a large country mansion) is the home of the Secretary of State and also the Queens official residence. The church is lovely, there is a small museum in the old county courthouse, a large county park with ducks on the pond and an old fort. 20 mins. drive from there will take you to Lurgan. It is not a very atractive town but Armagh is (I gave you information on it in another post) Bessbrook is an old Quaker mill village and the houses and layout of 'The Model Village' is still there and you would see the type of house your grandmother may have lived in. Travelling back to Belfast you could go through the Mountains of Mourne (this is where C S Lewis got the inspiration to write his Chronicles of Narnia).

A few miles east of Belfast is the Co. Down coast. This is where you will find the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum. However head a little further on to Crawfordsburn and walk along the cliff path to Bangor (countryside all the way and beautiful). Bangor is just a big commuting town for Belfast but 2 miles outside of it and you have the coast villages of Groomsport, Donaghdee, Greyabbey, Killyleagh and Portaferry (Mt Stewart is along this coast). Cross the lough by ferry (5mins) to Strangford and see a different side to Co Down. Downpatrick is where St Patrick lived and the church at Saul is still there.

Head north about 1 hour by car from Belfast to the Giants Causeway (your husband would love this) and stop by some of the Glens of Antrim towns. Visit the Bushmills Distillary and Glenarriff.

As you can see NI Countryside is on Belfast's doorstep.

There are lots of Hotels but I know of a rather nice guest house Malone Guest House. It is on the Malone Road south of the city and next door is Methodist College (my old school and a rather nice one I might add), opposite it is Queens university, The Ulster Museum and Botanic Gardens for a lovely walk and some old plants in the big greenhouse. It is also close to the Lisburn road which has lots of trendy restruants and posh shops.

OK, NI will not give you lots of fiddly-dee music and Irish dancing (although there is a fair bit of the latter at times) but it is where your grandmother came from and as such you might find the people and culture here more like your memory of her - she was an Ulster woman after all!

Helen

No matter where you go in Ireland I suggest you order Ordnance Maps offered in the Discovery Series. They are so complete you find all the back roads and every hill marked on them.

http://www.irishmaps.ie/productlistingM.cfm?SeriesID=11

So worth what you will pay to have a few of them with you.

Have a grand trip.

Cambe: Helen, you have a wealth of information about the Belfast area and I really must pick your brain some more, as you are so generous in the sharing of details. This will greatly enrich our visit to the area. I will have more questions for you if you don't mind, I have just finished with thanksgving, a major holiday here, and got reservations for Dingle and Ballyvaughan. Now I'm working my way up towards Westport and Belfast in my itinerary and reservations. (While at the same time second-guessing myself about trying to include Donegal or Rock of Cashel, at the expense of less time in Dublin at end of the trip!) Anyway that guesthouse you mentioned sounds well-located. We will defintely want to visit the Botanic gardens especially the old Palm House, and the Ulster folk and transport Museum near Bangor.

Yes 2 of my grandmother's brothers worked in the ship-yard helping build the Titanic but apparently they would have lost their jobs if they had admitted to being Catholic! By the way my grandmother's sister was born in Tannaghmore West, County Armagh, but unfortunately that isn't on the modern maps that I have, I think it was part of Lurgan. Then they moved later to Belfast. Have contact with Dad's cousin who has Grandmother's sister's birth certificate, half in Gaelic and half in English, but I don't actually have my own grandmother's birth certificate, but they were close in age.

Helen, if C.S. Lewis got his inspiration for the Chronicles of Narnia from the Mountains of Mourne, you are creating a great temptation for me therre, as that was my absolute #1 favorite book, especially the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, when I was in second grade...never read another book that was as well-loved by me until I read Tolkien's Lord of the Rings (before they started making the movies).

Thanks Helen! Helen, what do you think of my idea of staying in Newtownards and day-tripping by car to see Belfast and Ulster folk and transport museum, etc.

Also, will we notice tensions in Belfast in the second half of July? (We won't actually be there on July 12 when they have the parade.) Any advice on avoiding trouble in Belfast in July?

irishexpert and timlin, thanks for your replies and the advice.

Hi, I doubt you need more thrown into the mix but I figured I could add a couple of answer to questions which I haven't seen so far in this thread.

- Traditional music in Galway can often be found at the Roisin Duhb pub. Especially if you go during the arts festival. Great atmosphere. They feature several Irish musicians.
http://www.roisindubh.net

- Please don't miss the Connemara. You can stay in leenane, a quiet Connemara town. We stayed at the Leenane Hotel which was well priced and had lovely views over Killarney Harbour (apparently Ireland only fjord?!). Eat at the Blackberry Cafe and go up the road to the pub after.

- If you can make it, do go up to the Carrowkeel Passage Tombs. I don't think you could ask for any more magic than visiting this wonderful spiritual mysterious place.

- Clonmacnoise is also wonderful but gets a lot more tourists than Carrowkeel given it is more accessible.

You can find lots more infomation about these and pictures on my site at:

www.mcdougalladventures.com/category/ireland

Hi Melissa,

A very good friend of my mothers has lived all her life in Newtownards. Her husband died a few years ago and she decided to sell up and move to an apartment in Belfast. She lives in a rather grand and very nice old house on the Belfast road in N'ards however, it has been on the market now for 2 years and no one wants to buy it, why? because N'ards is a place where no one wants to live!! It was an old market town but in recent years it has become quite rundown with lots of new 'first time buyers houses' (somewhere a young person buys in order to get on the properety ladder and then sells on and moves to a better area).

I really do think you would be better staying in Belfast. Everywhere you want to see is a short drive away and the Ulster Folk & Transport museum is midway between Belfast and Bangor (a commuter town btw).

I have lived in NI/Belfast all my life and I have never once - not once, seen a riot, bomb or any violence. Been held up in traffic jams many times but I have never seen or witnessed any trouble. Stick with me and I will make sure you are in a very safe place where you will wonder if there was ever any trouble here at all.

Forgot to mention going West from Belfast to the Ulster American folk Park in Co Tyrone. There you can climb aboard the boat and experience your G'mother's journey from Ireland to America. Worth a visit if you have time.

Sorry, I have just added somewhere else to your overcrowded itinerary!!

Helen

PS I know an elderly lady who was born in one of the townlands around Lurgan which has since been demolished. She is recovering from a hip replacement at the moment but when she is a little better I will pick her brains and see if I can find out anything from her about Tannaghmore West.

Cambe: I am grateful for your advice in planning my Belfast/Northern Ireland visit. How fortunate I am to have a local to advise me. I am going to post a separate question about Belfast, and hope that you will join me there. (It will be a greater help to other folks visiting Belfast as well, I think, that way.)

Anyway Helen, Malone Guesthouse sounds like a possibility. Thank you for recommending it. I see it does have on good review on Tripadvisor.com and also is recommended in the Rick Steves guidebook for Ireland. Oops, forgot to check and see if they have a web-site. Anyway, Helen, did you stay at Malone Guesthouse? Do you know if they have any quiet rooms, off the street? (I'm a light sleeper and get very sensitive to noise just as I am trying to drift off to sleep). From what you have said, do I understand correctly that from the Malone Guestouse one could walk to the Palm House and Botanic Gardens of Belfast?

I hope that your elderly friend with the hip replacement recovers well from her surgery.

Your village of Edenderry sounds quite nice. Just the sort of place my grandmother would have liked. She liked squirels and being able to walk a bit in the countryside of in a garden. Her stories often included a duck--pond, so I thought of my grandmother when you mentioned the county park with the duck-pond near Hillsborough!

Well Helen by the time we get to Belfast we will have had lots of fiddly-dee music, and will be ready to explore what Ulster has to offer!

I didn't realize the Giant's Causeway could really be a day-trip from Belfast. It is really an hour's drive? Perhaps I will reduce our Dublin visit to only 2 nights so that I can have a 3-night stay in Belfast and thereby have more time for day-trips in Northern Ireland.

Okay, I'm going to switch over my Belfast discussion to a separate thread, and post a question about Belfast. Hope you will join me there, Helen! My usual style is to welcome a variety of responses and opinions, the more the merrier. I enjoy all the things that I learn. Thanks very much, Helen!

I'm looking at your 3 nights in Lisdoonvarna. I don't know what days of the week you'll be there, but try to make it to Vauhans in Kilfenora, just down the road, for the ceili on Wednesday night. Kilfenora is known as the home of ceili music, and the dancing and music are great. Get there early, have dinner, and head over next door to the dance. Vauhan's is right next door to the Burren Centre. Also, Kitty's across the street has music sometimes, and very good pub food. I think Clare's a great place to stay and hear music, from Milltown Malbay to Doolin to Kilfenora, there's plenty to see and do. Also charming is the coastal town of Lahinch, just a few miles down the road. Have fun!

Mexicobeachbum: thanks for the tip about the ceili on Wednesday nights at Vaughan's in Kilfenora. We're staying in Ballyvaughan, and I want to do something different each night in County Clare, to keep young adult daughters and hubby and myself entertained.

We have 3 nights: maybe one night for Kinvara & Dunguaire Castle medieval banquet; one night for Kilfeora/Vaughan's; and one night for...somewhere else! Monk's pub in Ballyvaughan? Doolin pubs? (Not sure if I can face the July crowds in Doolin though.) Corofin? Thought about spending the night on one of the Aran Islands, but I don't want to break up our lovely itinerary which has several nice relaxed 3-night stays. (Our favorite pace.)

How early would we need to get into Vaughan's to be able to wedge ourselves in close enough to hear the music? Do people stand or sit (when they aren't dancing). Have never been to a ceili and I'd love to experience our first ceili as a family!

I would agree about not venturing into Doolin for the pubs in July. We've stayed there then, and it's a madhouse. All the more reason to look to the smaller, less traveled towns for your evenings. As to Vaughan's, I'd get there early enough for dinner, say 6 or 7, and head on over to the ceili next door when people start making their move. You can dance, if you're pretty fit, or have a penchant for line or square dancing, or you can sit to the side, have a pint (or a soft drink), and just watch. We spent a week in a self-accommodating place in Doolin, and our landlady was from Kilfenora, so we joined her and she showed us the ropes. She even introduced us to the actual "matchmaker" from the festival in Lisdoonvarna. It was a very fun evening, and quite multi-generational to boot. Some of the older dancers position themselves near the stage, so they can sit on it when it's not their turn to dance.
When we were there, a group of young (and very good) musicians played at Ketty's pub across the street on Thursday night. It was great to see teenagers carrying on the muscial tradition. Have a great trip!

mexicobeachbum, Kilfenora sounds like just the sort of place I am looking for. Thanks for explaining things and sharing your experiences. Sounds like you had a memorable time! I wonder if Kilfenora has a web-site? I'll look for one.

Wonder if the drive from Kilfenora at night back to the Drumcreehy b&b in Ballyvaughan (on the main road, I think it's called N67) will be okay and safe. Don't want to get lost. Drumcreehy is actually 1 mile from the main village of Ballyvaughan. It's on the coast, I thought it would be picturesque and a quiet setting. Although I was also tempted to just stay right near one of the fun pubs, that could mean sleepless nights for me (light sleeper if there's noisy people walking by.)

mexicobeachbum, I hope I was clear in my comment above. I meant that I think Drumcreehy b&b is on the main coastal road, N67. I'm not sure what road Kilfenora is on! don't have my books handy right now.

Melissa, you can see the water from Drumcreehy, it isn't right on the water. When we stayed at Sheedy's in Lisdoonvarna one of my boys would take his daily run to Kilfenora, I'd say it is around 6 or 7 miles from Lisdoonvara. Ballyvaughan is another maybe 10 to 15 miles on roads that would be pretty dark at night. I don't know if there is anyplace to stay in Kilfenora. It is a lovely little village.

Hi Melissa,
Well I see that you have settled for Ballyvaughan.
Look at www.Ballyvaughanireland.com
I see that you have been told about Kilfenora;
www.kilfenoraceiliband.com if you want to hear music follow the links and also if you want to see a dance session in Lisdoonvarna.

Melissa: As you have observed, both Kilfenora and Ballyvaughan are on the same road, N67. We didn't take this road at night, but did drive back to Doolin several times after dark, and it was fine. Sometimes, it's almost easier to drive at night, because you can see the headlights from around the corner. If you get a local driving behind you, pull over (to the left, of course) and let them go, because they'll be driving much faster than you, and you don't want them to pass you in a dangerous place. Also, and this goes for most places in the rural areas of Ireland, keep your eyes out for tractors on the road. Lots of folks don't have a car, and they drive to the pub on a tractor. Usually they have headlights, but not always. We were told that in Ireland you need a license and insurance to drive a car, but not so on a tractor, so it's the conveyance of choice for lots of young drivers. We saw them "cruising" the square in Donegal in their tractors. Very entertaining, especially for our two teenage daughters, who seemed to appreciate the attention.

Though I was travelling alone to Ireland many years ago, the magically part of my journey included a stay in a country hotel then called The Cashel House. It had horseback riding for those interested and I remember a walk into a nearby town overlooking the sea with a cute little pub I made a stop in to enjoy the locals. As I recall it wasn't far from Galway in Connamara but definately miles away from the bustle of a city. Hope you can find it, I have always longed for a return.

chatham, you rascal, you are tempting me to question my Ballyvaughan reservations in favor of reservations in Lisdoonvarna, because it is closer to Kilfenora and the Cliffs of Moher. (However, Ballyvaughan is closer to Kinvara and Galway!)

CU: Does Ballyvaughan meet with your approval? (It was hard to choose between Ballyvaughan and Lisdoonvarna.) Thanks for all your help!

mexicobeachbum, gotcha, look out for the local boys on tractors heading to/from the pubs...will do! (An unexpected bit of local flavor!)

fiberalchemy, your experience of coming across such a memorable place in the countryside of Connemara sounds wonderful. I hope we have experiences like that. That's why I keep trying to resist the urge to add more stops to our itinerary. I'm trying to keep the pace leisurely enough so that we can have time for day-trips into the countryside. Though July will be busy, surely we will find someplace in County clare and County Mayo which is less-travelled, for a pleasant morning or afternoon.