Multi-Generational Great Britain Tour
 

In May of 2015 my two kids (will be 7 and 9), my parents (72 and 78), and I are planning on going to Great Britain. My mother is English so we'll need to see family in London and the Lake District. Beyond that, we though it would be fun to show my kids a bit of Ireland (where we need to see some in-laws in Dublin) and Scotland. The trip will be ~14 days. Obviously, I'm in the beginning stages of planning. I looked at some bus tour sites, but I am a bit concerned about all the sitting time. I worry my kids will be bore, glued to their electronics and miss everything out the window (which, arguably with high way driving, won't be much).
We want to avoid driving ourselves (we did that this year around Spain and it was exhausting for everyone) but have no issues with trains and public transport.

Any suggestions?

IMO there are no comprehensive group tours that are suitable for the age range of your family. The majority of passengers will be your parents' ages and there will usually be no children.

An exception would be small group tours like Rabbies - mostly in Scotland - they do 1 day and short stay tours around the country and there will be sometimes be entire families on board.

http://www.rabbies.com

They also offer a few tours in Ireland

But you only have two weeks which is a VERY short time for London +The Lakes + Dublin + anywhere else in Ireland + anyplace in Scotland.

Your relatives in the Lakes and Dublin likely won't have vehicles large enough to drive/guide you around. London and Dublin are easy by public transport - so no problems there.

IMO you really don't have time for a lot more than London/the Lakes/and a few days in Dublin plus maybe a couple of day trips into the Irish countryside.

Scotland is my favorite destination on Earth -- but except for maybe a weekend in Edinburgh - you probably should drop Scotland from this trip.

Thanks, janisj.

I'll definitely check out Rabbies.

Just as a bit of background, since my parents and I have been to London and the Lakes before we're not worrying about touring, just spending time visiting. We'll set aside 4-5days for family time. Since it's less than 4 hours from where the Lake relatives live to Scotland (they've told us they often drive up for the weekend) do you still think it's unmanageable? Our goal is to see family and introduce my kids to portion of their heritage. I guess, this is more touring than vacationing, meaning, we're not against being speedy and ticking things off a list (as awful as that sounds).

>>Scotland (they've told us they often drive up for the weekend) do you still think it's unmanageable?<<

Yes, Easy peasy . . . IF one drives like your rels do. Seeing rural bits of Scotland is much easier by car.

But you could easily take the train and spend maybe 3 days in Edinburgh to include one of Rabbies 1-day tours. Then fly to Dublin. Say Windermere to Edinburgh -- it is about 2.5 hours by train w/ one change.

Meant to add -- the kids will love Edinburgh and taking one of the day tours will give everyone a glimpse of either Loch Lomond and the Trossachs or even a bit of the Highlands - depending on which day tour you choose..

My son's favourite part of our Spain trip was Toledo because of all the military stuff (cannons, blades, suits of arms etc) so, bearing that in mind, I thought that the Scotland Pride Passion People tour would be good followed by one of their 5 day Ireland tours. If we flew in to London, took a train to the Lakes and another to Scotland I think it'd work out well. It may be 16 days instead of 14, but it won't matter because my kids are on summer break anyway.
Thanks!

Is that a Rabbies tour? I <i>think</i> Mercat runs one w/ that name, but I hadn't heard of one by Rabbies (doesn't mean there isn't one)

Re your son's interests . . . I'll make another suggestion -- Edinburgh Castle and Stirling Castle, well he'd just eat them up.

You can easily do Stirling Castle as a day trip on your own from Edinburgh by train. I'd recommend that instead of doing it on a tour because even the good tours won't give you enough time there.

So about 1.5+ days for Edinburgh including lots of time in the Castle, a day trip to Stirling by train, and then pick one of the mainly scenery Rabbies day trips.

maybe this one

http://www.rabbies.com/tours_scotlan...our.asp?lng=en

or

http://www.rabbies.com/tours_scotlan...our.asp?lng=en

I've just been on a trip with my mom and MIL, who are 73 and 80. Managing the different energy levels (and interests) of kids and septuagenarians is going to be tricky, can you possibly have a conversation with your parents about specific days where they rest, or they visit with some relatives you're less close with while you take the kids out and run them ragged with some sights just for them plus some exercise?

(I'm in my 40s and walking everywhere at my mom's speed caused me to start swishing the jacket around my waist like I was a princess wearing a panniered dress as we minced along in a royal procession taking the air at Versailles. If my friend's boys had been with us they would have gone insane. Actually, gone insane sooner than I did)

Also, would the Lake District relatives be interested in driving up to Scotland to visit with you? That would give you more time there.
(although you'd likely like to want to see a bit of the Lake District too)

"Managing the different energy levels (and interests) of kids and septuagenarians is going to be tricky..."

It may be tricky, but it may not be tricky at all. The older we get the bigger the differences between people of the same age. I just spent a whole day with my 8 yo granddaughters out & about with no difficulties at all. Generalizations like this one are not useful.

Luckily, my parents are pretty spry so I think we'll be ok.

Now that things are getting a bit closer we've had a bit of a wrench thrown in the plans....we have to change our trip to July (instead of the late May like we were hoping to do) because my mother's cousin is celebrating her 50th wedding anniversary with a big party with lots of friends and family flying in.

Let me know if you still think I'm nuts - I was looking today and thought maybe the train (Brit Rail family pass) is our best bet:

Fly into Dublin for 2 nights
Take ferry/train to either Crewe or Cardiff or Bath (over night)
From Bath or Bristol (get there via bus?) to London by train (2nights include day trip to Stratford-Upon-Avon and Stonehenge).
London to Cambridge.
Overnight train to Hull or York. One night there.
Train to Windermere (arriving the day before the party and stay two nights)
Train from Windermere to Edinburgh (stay two nights)

Now things get tricky - I'd like to tack on Inverness and Aberdeen here and then get back to Edinburgh to fly home (through Dublin if I must leave from where I started).

This may obviously turn into a sight seeing from the train trip, and I'm not adverse to cherry picking things. Stratford is a must as per my mother's request.

Thoughts?

Thanks for your input!

Oh, and think more along the lines of 16 nights.

Parts of your plan are very hectic, some is impossible and some doesn't make sense.

Just a couple of random issues:

• Train to London w/ two nights there will give you a bit over 1.5 days in London . . Oh wait, out of the 1.5 days you want to take a day trip to Stratford-upon-Avon AND Stonehenge Which are nowhere near each other. This is a non starter all around.

• Overnight train to York or <strike>Hull</strike>. There is no overnight train -- Cambridge to York only takes 2.5 hours.

What are your actual dates? I'd ditch the whole idea of ferry from Ireland. If you can make the dates work - I'd fly from Dublin to Edinburgh (very cheap if you book well ahead), visit the parts of Scotland you want to see, take the train to the Lake District for the party, then to York, then to London. Stay in London several days. Fly home from there.

Definitely do open jaw (multi-city) tickets. Examples that might work depending on your dates and working around the party: In to Dublin / home from London; In to Edinburgh / home form Dublin; In to London / home from Dublin.

Having spent a good bit of my life in both Hull and York I could imagine going ONLY to York as a tourist. Unless you have a political need to visit the Wilberforce Pub, a cute (yes I used the word) art gallery and few 1500s and 1960 buildings I would avoid compared to the medievel walled city and fine cathedral of York.

The ferry twixt Ireland and Wales, hmmm. I struggle to think of the question that comes up with that as an answer. Mainly used to ship goods and caravans. I live in the UK and I fly when I go to Ireland. It is not even as if you want to take a car across.

I'd take a look at nationalrail.co.uk and http://www.traveline.info/ and stop looking at BritRail for any info more than buying combo tickets.

BTW since we in Britain don't get to use BritRail I'd take care you are getting the best deal with your train tickets from them.

Thanks, janisj and bilboburgler. I just spoke to my mom (mum, actually, as she's the English one :D ) and told her we may want to just cut straight from Dublin to London and home base there, then up to the Lakes for the party, then to Edinburgh for a couple of days then home. The non-negotiables are Dublin (for in-law cousins) London (my cousin and, well, London) S-U-A (my mom's requirement), Stonehenge, and the anni party in the lakes. Apart from that, it's all up for auction. My relatives in the lakes say they often drive to Scotland, so there's a chance we could rent a van and do that as a group after the party....that might be fun.
I get ambitious, it's a problem :D I have two weeks a year to get my kids out of the country (we're a very international family living in a not-so international place) so I'm always trying to maximize the experience.
Do you think it would be worth renting an apartment in or around London for a week and doing day trips from there?

Thanks for your input!

Bilboburgler, I think I ended up at Britrail from seat61...I'm taking your suggestion and looking up traveline.info

Sorry, serial posting, but the ferry/train combo from Dublin to London was hatched because we thought it might be a good scenic way to tour based on this http://www.seat61.com/Ireland.htm#Dublin_to_London
Thoughts?

To simplifiy things . . . there are day tours to Stonehenge -- most include either Bath or Bath AND Windsor. Or cheaper and less hectic you can take the train from London to Salisbury (80 to 90 minutes each way), a local bus to Stonehenge, then back to Salisbury, see the cathedral and walk around the pretty bits and train back to London by dinner time.

There are also day tours to Stratford -- most also include Oxford. But again it is an easy train ride from London. It does take about 2 hours each way so you'd want an early start. In Stratford most sites are in the middle of town and there is a hop-on-hop-off bus that covers all the in-town sites plus Anne Hathaway's Cottage and Mary Arden's house. So that is what I'd do -- train to Stratford-upon-Avon on your own and an early evening train back to London.

Sue, Mark at Seat61 is a great guide and enthusiast for train based travel. Without, in anyway disparaging what he does, he does do it on "the train" hence the Ferry makes sense to him.

From a Buddhist point of view "If you carry a hammer, everything can look like a nail"

Is it a pretty route? Well, when you can see land it is.

I agree with Bilboburgler, Man in seat61 is an invaluable site. What he doesn't know about train travel world-wide is not worth knowing.
Not a criticism but just a thought: his enthusiasm leads him to try to re-evoke the romance of train travel which IMO is gone forever, at least in Europe. Sad fact.

Talking about the Wales/Ireland ferry, in the days when you could take the steam-drawn Irish Mail non-stop from Euston to Holyhead the journey did have a whiff of romance about it.

janisj - that sounds perfect. I was just looking at vrbo rentals for a week in London to use as a home base. This seems much more sane, thank you!

bilboburgler and Appia, thank you for the good insight. You may have just saved me much sneering and angry under-the-breath remarks from my dad about wasted time! I appreciate that.

So, looks like plane rides from Dublin to London (after 2-3 days there), a week in London to include day trips, 2-ish days in the Lakes (arriving by train) for the party, and 2-ish days in Scotland (Edinburgh and maybe elsewhere if we're feeling brave hearted, ha!) before heading home.

Another question - we had issues in Spain with taxis refusing to transport the 5 of us (don't get me started on the mean cabbies in Seville). What will we encounter in the UK?

I appreciate your help!

Oh, forgot to add the dates, which basically revolve around the 18th of July's party. I *think* we'll arrive Dublin around the 7th. Trying to fly early week because it's usually cheaper. Also, there's a cheaper direct flight from here. I just looked it up and to fly Clt-Dub, Dub-LHR and then Edi-Clt (on the 21st) is ~$1700 for the kids and myself. I'll have to work on using miles etc, but it's a good starting point.

UK has a number of different things like "taxi"

The Black Cab in London should take 5. But luggage as well may be an issue. http://www.londonblackcabs.co.uk/About.html says it all.

Other cars used as public transport (called up by phone/email etc). Well you need to book the right size for you. UK requires all car users to wear a seat belt. So if it only has 4 seats it can only take 4 people incl the driver. If I needed 5 seats I'd book 5 seats and the supplier will supply 5 seats+.

Same will be in Ireland I guess

Ah, I could have just googled that, sorry, but thank you. :)

Cabs in London all hold 5 for getting around town. But if you mean from the airport into London a pre-booked car service is much better than a cab it will be cheaper and they will send a vehicle large enough to handle the luggage..

Ok! Looks like my father decided to take over....
Here's our new schedule:


6th fly to Dublin
7th Arrive Dublin
8th fly to London
Sightseeing bus trip around city.
9th visit Stonehenge via bus or train
10th visit Stratford via bus or train
11th rent car - Glasgow.
12th drive to Skye
13th Skye & vicinity
14th Inverness/Edinburgh
15th Edinburgh
16th Lunch in Newcastle/Tynemouth
17th Grange
18th Grange
19th Grange
20th fly to Dublin
22nd fly home

Looks like we'll just power through the jetlag!
Technically, I can do what I want after the 20th as my parents are going to Paris for an extended trip.
Any insight/advice? Luckily, we've been offered rooms with family along the way so our hotel bills will be cut substantially. Accommodations in the Lakes will be a bit tough since there will be 9 of us total (our 5 plus my brother, his girlfriend, my uncle and his girlfriend). I found a place on homeaway, but if you have any suggestions I'm all ears. I checked the hotel sites...amazing how quickly things are getting booked! We had to book a hotel in Skye since rooms were rapidly disappearing.
Thanks!

More pointedly, any reco's of a fantastic place to stay in or around Edinburgh would be appreciated. It might be fun to splurge on a castle or something akin for a couple of nights.

Sorry, but much of your fathers plan makes NO sense.

What does the 11th mean? Are you actually renting a car in London and driving to Glasgow? Or are you flying to Glasgow?

And on the 14th you will drive from say Portree on Skye to Inverness to Edinburgh? That is an entire day in the car w/ no stopping - - about 8 hours 'behind the wheel'.

And you will only have half a day in London.

This really is not a good plan.

It appears that the more you try and plan this, the more difficult it starts to be, especially when someone does a bit in the middle without looking at the rest of it. How about this:

6th & 7th Dublin
8th Fly to London
9th London (Ditch bus-just decide what you want to see).
10th Stonehenge trip (if this a must)
11th Train to Oban Rent car, drive to Portree
12th/13th Skye and around
14/15/16th Edinburgh (ditch Inverness)-sightsee on way from Skye-long day. Ditch Newcastle.
17/18/19th Grange over Sands-family visit
2021/22th Fly Manchester/Dublin, then home

It also occurs that you're doing Dublin twice. Why not fly into London initially and do all the Dublin at the end, or do a couple of nights in Dublin and tack on the extra days to London.

I realize it seems odd, but it's cheaper (by $400/ticket x 3 tickets) to fly through Dublin and that way we'll get that extra day to see my relatives there.

Dublin - fine, I get that. Grange over sands - the same.

It is EVERYTHING in between that is the problem. Very little of it makes any sense.

With your latest plan you will only have a half day in London and that on a sightseeing bus. London is one of the world's great cities with enough too see and to do to keep one busy for weeks and you're only giving it a half day? Stonehenge and Stratford will essentially be full day trips.

Do you plan to take the train to Glasgow? Again a 4/5 hour journey ( not at all scenic ) even if you plan on flying, it'll take up half a day leaving you little or no time for sightseeing in Glasgow. The next day you rent a car and drive to Skye? One day on Skye and an 8+ hour drive to Edinburgh? Won't even bother to comment on the first three days of your itinerary. I strongly urge you to get a map and look at a journey planner on a site such as www.theaa.co.uk to determine travel times to which you will need to add another 30% to get an accurate estimate. Also check out the national rail site www.nationalrail.co.uk for train times and duration.Travel can be fatiguing even if you aren't affected by jet lag.Your present itinerary, quite honestly, is an endurance contest.

I'm going to send all your replies to 'the powers that be'. Thank you.
I agree that London is worth more than a quick drive-by. Since we have family there it's a no brainer to come back at a later date and spend more time. This is really an 'Intro to the UK' for my kids mixed with a family party. Stonehenge is a must because of my kids (the rest of us have all BTDT), Stratford is my mother's requirement, and Skye is my mother's bucket list. This is what happens when you've got 2 weeks and a lot of people to please. :D
I think I've mentioned before that we all did the south of Spain in a week last summer (then spent another week based out of Madrid where we did day trips and a big family party) and it was fantastic (we did a hell of a lot of driving, but we had a blast, ate our faces off, and my kids loved it). Endurance is our forte! Seeing as England and Spain are the mother countries of my parents it's not like we're newbie tourists being exposed to Europe for the first time. This is like coming home for them.

Thanks again. Stay tuned!

Just be sure to tell the 'powers that be' that driving in rural England and Scotland is not fast. No matter that you love long drives. Northern Scotland or Skye or the Lake District are 35 mph territory.

That's valuable info. Thanks, janisj!

Sue--

We rented an apartment in Edinburgh with Stay Edinburgh Apartments (booked through booking.com). The one we got was on the Royal Mile--large apartment, comfy and quiet because of thick glass in windows. Had a washer/dryer which was a great convenience as well as a kitchen The booking.com site says they can accommodate families. I'd see what I could find through them, although it is late to be starting to look.

any road off the freeways in the U K I have found can be tedious driving - lots of lorries, etc - the very side roads are well paved and hardly travelled but are often sinuous in nature and at times one lane with 'passing zones' ahead - yet this will reveal the real Britain not possibole from main roads. Like janisj says keep you distance expectations lower than you imagine for such roads.

I just received the revised itin from the powers that be. This is with the considerations all of you brought up, I'm told.


7 Arive Dublin O/N
8 Fly to London (first flight am) Sights on/off bus O/N family's house
9 Stonehenge O/N. family's house
10 family drives us to Stratford to meet friend, O/N friend's house
11 Train to Glasgow O/N
12 Get rental car & drive to Skye O/N
13 Skye O/N
14 Drive to Aberdeen O/N
15 Drive to Edinburgh O/N on/off bus
16 Drive to Newcastle/Tynemouth/South Shields Meet family O/N
17 Drive to Windermere O/N
18 Windermere O/N
19 Windermere O/N
20 Fly to Dublin to see family. Return to US a couple/few days later

Thanks for all the info. I'm currently only tasked with booking Edinburgh. I can't get over how quickly things are getting booked up! I know July is high season, but this is nuts! :D

Sorry, should have been more clear. On the 9th, the O/N will be at the same house as the 8th in case you were worried we were packing up and sleeping in a new bed that day as well.