Moving to England?
 

I know this is asking a lot, but can someone tell me where to even BEGIN how to plan moving to England? I'm in Chicago, IL. right now and I'd like to move by summer 2005, but I don't know what I need to know/plan, how to find a place to live, how to figure out what costs to expect, what kinds of visas I need or how long I can get them for - absolutely anything! Can some of you help me out? :))

Thanks -
Jackie

Think about this idea more rationally, it is a big decision.

This has to be the best place to start. The UK government very helpfully has a website dedicated to people who want to come and work in the UK.

/www.workingintheuk.gov.uk

My sister relocated from NYC to London in 2001. She didn't have work visa issues since her husband is a Danish citizen and they can work anywhere in the EU, so I can't really help you there. What I can tell you is that it is very expensive, and I live in Manhattan. My sister 1st apartment there was a one bedroom in a nice, but kind of alternative area (Clerkenwell) and was about $2300 a month. It wasn't huge or luxurious, just OK. Coming from Chicago, I think that will be your biggest concern, cause I would bet you pay less than half of that for a nicer space. They are very happy living in London and have purchased a flat in an area called Crouch End in the North East outside of Central London. Prices for food, restaurants, etc... I find to be a little more expensive then NYC on average. My sister told me it is now 10 pounds for a movie ticket in central London. That blew my mind -- I'm annoyed enough that it's $10 in NYC.

Do you plan to live in central London and rely on the tube or would you need a car? You would be fine in central London without a car. After you figure out your work situation, I would definitely check out neighborhoods you might like to live in and how much flats go for. Best of luck, it is a great place to live, but know that it is pricey. According to a study I saw, I believe it is the most expensive city to live in in the U.S. or Europe.

Basically - you simply can't move to England (at least not legally) w/o meeting strict immigration rules. You really can't just because you want to - The link Kate gave you is a good place to start.

Strict immigration rules??

Trust me, as a citizen of the United Kingdom (might be worth getting the name of the country right before moving to it) , l do not see strict immigration rules. People are in and out of this country like a yo-yo. There are few controls to enter the country, however if you want to work here then obviously you'll need to get a work visa.

Visit www.ukonline.gov.uk (the UK's Government website) to find out more information on how to move to the country. I'm sure there's some practical guidance on what to do aswell.

Best of luck when it does go ahead, but again it is a very big decision,and not something which should be taken lightly.

jackie,

Do google searches for
expatriate europe
expatriate england
expatriate united kingdom
etc.

There are tens of thousands of Americans living in Europe, so why not you? Don't let the naysayers get you down. Your google search will turn up dozens if not hundreds of sites with firsthand information on making your move and living in your chosen country.

It will be an adventure. Go for it.

Do understand that immigration, for all sorts of reasons,is a highly emotional issue througout the UK - though it's easily understandable why anyone sensible would be interested in moving only to England.

Assuming you want to work here, EU citizens (from all 25 countries) can work more or less without documentation, and young Commonwealth citizens can mostly get working holiday visas for a couple of years.

But assuming you have only a US passport, life's a lot tougher. Unless you swim in, or smuggle yourself onto a truck, immigration controls are tough, and people with the wrong paperwork get deported instantly. Glynn Williams, I'm afraid, is plain wrong on this.

There are three main ways of working here legally if you're not one of the 2 billion people with preferential access. You can get your company to transfer you. You can invest in a business. Or you might qualify under the Highly Skilled Migrants Programme, dtails of which are at http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/wor...all_forms.html

There's a myth about that this programme is just for people with skills in short supply. It's not: most university graduates, in any discipliine, with a reasonable record of success for their age in almost any career, qualify for example. But the rules are complicated, and there's a backlog in processing applications. HMSP visas aren't linked to a specific job.

Don't necessarily assume Britain will retain its position as the G7 country with the lowest unemployment. And if you're not intending working, getting a visa will be close to impossible

For general background about how many Americans find coping with a country that seems expensive and cramped look at www.americanexpats.co.uk.

Good luck. 60 million of us - and what sometimes feels like the other 60 million who are trying to move here - can't be wrong. But start thinking about your culture shock now.

Oh la~ I wish I could indulge in some of that culture shock for just a few years :)
Good luck thinkpink!
and let us know what you do!

>Trust me, as a citizen of the United Kingdom (might be worth getting the name of the country right before moving to it)..<

When did it become incorrect to call England "England?" Did I not get that memo?

without knowing much about you in terms of skills and age, you're best bet probably is either work for a company that would transfer you there or try to get hired by a u.k. company that will sort out the visas for you. with the right planning and persistence it can be done. if you are just out of college there are work programs in bars and restaurants and stuff like that. best of luck.

I was wondering the same thing, obxgirl.

Use www.americanexpats.co.uk
with a largish pinch of salt. I just had a brief look at it and found a few errors e.g. the information about telephones and television is years out of date. There may be other errors.

As a citizen of Newmachar, Aberdeenshire (NOT part of England, but subject to the same immigration laws, more's the pity) I suggest you find a Brit (or other European) to marry. Unless you're rich.

I think Glyn might be refering to the fact that this is the United Kingdom. There are some other stakeholders here. Remember Scotland ? Wales ? Northern Ireland? It's not only England you know.
Just one thing to consider- thinkpinkpop the grass is always greener...until you get there.
The UK is a greatly overpopulated country 60 million and rising, compare this with Australia- 16 Million and you should get my drift. However our houses are probably smaller and more expensive than in the US, our cost of living is quite high and we waste so much money on European buerocracy and hanging on to GW Bush's shirt tail that our health service and education all suffer.
Consider it seriously. I know many many brits who want to get out and many who have. Maybe you could swop.

Good Luck

Mucky, I'm well aware of which nations comprise the UK. Half of my family is from ENGLAND. Is it OK to phrase it that way without pi$$ing off the other stakeholders?

The OP seems a bit naive and lots, including yourself, have offered helpful info. G_W's comment about learning to spell a country's name before moving there is kinda snotty and not the least bit elucidating.

Besides - thinkpinkpop may actually MEAN he wants to move to England -- Not Scotland or Wales or N Ireland.

If someone wanted to move to California we wouldn't jump on him because he didn't say "United States" - well maybe some would!

Exactly, Janis. I'm thinkin' that the OP said England, because she meant England, and not Wales, Scotland, etc. I don't see what the big deal is.

What are your reasons for choosing England or I should say, the United Kingdom? Do you have friends there or a course of study that you want to pursue? Or do you just want an adventure and want to start out somewhere where they speak English? I moved to England 20 years ago to study but mostly because my best friend is British and we talked about having our own flat in London togeher since we were 13 years old. It was a terrific adventure...she set up the flat in Highgate (really more like Archway..yuck) before I got there. In retrospect there was so much ground work laid before I got there. It helps to have a friend waiting for you for sure. The biggest problem was the work permit issue. I had to do private assistant jobs for a group of fashion models and was paid in cash when my savings started to run out. I had to move four times in one year and then ended up moving to Italy. It was all an adventure of a life time which changed my life in a wonderful way. There were challenges and heartbreak too, but it was all worth it. Times have admittedly changed, but how about you set out as a tourist and see where it all leads you. It was different back then, but some of the greatest people I have ever known, I met on a train or at a cafe. Have fun!

Oh please. I cannot believe how defensive the majority of people are on this forum. I was simply pointing out a basic fact about the UK - which is almost always forgotten by all Americans.

It's a simple fact - you'll find that when people are referring to the country of America, they say America. They do not say Texas or Florida or Washington.

Just accept it and take it on board. That is if your mature enough to do so.

Hmm (gets out wooden spoon and starts stirring), I heard an interview with a Brazilian woman whose name was America. She was very indignant that the United States had hogged the name America although they only occupy part of the continent. Personally, I call them United Statespeople.

Glyn - as already mentioned - There is no country of "America".

"I was simply pointing out a basic fact about the UK - which is almost always forgotten by all Americans. It's a simple fact . . . . . That is if your mature enough to do so."

How pompous can you get . . . . .

And if someone asked about moving to "America" we most definitely WOULD ask WHERE? California? New Jersey? North Dakota?

Same thing for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland -- If someone is asking about the UK, our first response usually would be Where?

I thought they were subjects and not citizens ?

www.americanexpats.co.uk has great information on the message boards. There is always someone around to answer your questions and they plan get togethers in various cities.

I live in Northern Ireland, and we know better than anyone about the whole UK/Great Britain/Britian/England thing. But sounds like thinkpink is moving to England, so take it easy.

I am an American expat myself, and moving abroad can be a great thing. It can also be a disaster if you are doing it for the wrong reasons or do not prepare properly.

All non-natives make mistakes about foreign countries. How many times to I have to hear people here in the UK call Elvis' home "Gracelands" and the big park in Florida "Disneyland" and think Knickerbocker Glory is a traditional dessert in the United States? I've given up saying "United States" or "US" over here. They only respond to "America".

Yes, quite one can understand what you are trying to say with regard to the whole England/UK/Britain dilema, however one has to realise that the UK is quite a lot smaller than the United States of America, so asking what part of Britain wouldn't really be of much benefit if your talking about moving to the country. The general culture, weather and all else that varies so much in the United States of America stays so similar in Britain.

And finally, the United States of America is quite a mouthful (and judging by recent news reports from your country, l'd say your country was far from United). This is why most people refer to the United States of America as simply America or the US. This is correct. When calling Britain or the UK England is very incorrect. They both mean completly different things, and l believe that this is something which many people have difficulty in grasping.

>however one has to realise that the UK is quite a lot smaller than the United States of America<

This IS news. Alert the media.

She wasn't referring to Britain or the UK in general. She specifically said "England" because she wants to move to England. Dunno what the big deal is.

Glyn -

Really - it's all the same? And would the people in London, Edinburgh and Belfast agree with that? Perhaps she said England because that's what she meant.

And America is not at all correct for the USA. America comprises two entire continents - which as some know is even bigger than the US.

>>This is why most people refer to the United States of America as simply America or the US. This is correct<<

Really? Geezz...I'll have to alert the Canadians, Mexicans, Columbians, etc...that they are not in America... This is too funny, it's not correct to refer to England as England, but you are so adamant that calling the U.S.A, as America is the correct way, period!

By the way, the way the citizens of the U.S.A show their UNITY is by not all thinking the same. We are VERY united in our rights to argue and fight for each of our own way of thinking!

Glyn seems to have a very large bee in his bonnet about this - it's certainly not the first time he's waxed wrath on the subject, to no useful purpose whatever. His problem probably stems from the lingering resentment felt by the Welsh over the defeat of their primitive ancestors by the marginally less primitive Anglo-Saxons. I'm just thankful that my English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish ancestors left it all behind them a couple of hundred years ago and escaped this sort of crap. To the rest of us it matters not one whit, and I suspect that it doesn't matter to most residents of the UK either. I see nothing wrong with using "England" generically, as in "Cardiff, England".

Hi thinkpinkpop As an expat Brit living in Australia for the past 20 years having emigrated to NZ and lived there for 20 years I will only suggest that you think about the culture shock. (assuming you are American). Altho Oz has great weather it is a desert when it comes to culture/history & altho the same things may not apply to you it will be a shock to find that the Brits, for instance, are perhaps less "laid back" than Americans. In the south of England I do know that house prices are ridiculously high, in 2003 for 150,000 pnds my niece puchased a tiny 2 bed terraced house which needs gutting to make habitable. (The house being 35 miles away from London in Bucks.) I live in a large house on 9 acres of land with a wonderful view, however I would swap it for a small unit nr London, It shows how much the ties to your homeland can mean.I suggest that you lok on the web for info re real estate in UK. Good luck tho whatever you decide.

A sad note from settlers.

Some people cope well with the experience of moving to a new country, and many are energised by the experience. Others are by nature incapable of making the necessary mental shift. They while away their days lamenting the loss of their "real home", which in their minds takes on more lustre with each passing year, and berate their host country for its perceived shortcomings. In this case, the victim is marooned in an imagined cultural desert, but I have heard a British immigrant damn Australia because she couldn't find a Marks & Spencers. The real reasons for her unhappiness, of course, lie within her.

Poor old settlers must have burnt his or her bridges; thinkpinkpop should be able to organise things better than than.

Q: How can you pick which arriving aircraft is the one loaded with British immigrants?
A: It's the one that doesn't stop whining after the engines are switched off.

Infomania:

Where did you get this claptrap about "subjects"? It's a myth invented by anti-monarchist fantasists.

What does it say on my passport - and on the other 30 or 40 million UK passports around? British Citizen. So far as I can remember, that's been true of every passport I've ever had.

Just as it says in the passports of all the other democracies where Head of State is a hereditary office - but Head of Government isn't. And, you know, we rather think liberty and democracy is a lot better assured in our system than in those countries where Head of Government is hereditary - or has become so over the past few years.

Neil: we tell exactly the same joke about Qantas planes full of Oz backpackers - presumably the offspring of the whingers we so successfully exported.

Now, having dumped my side-issues here's a plea to the board for rather more answers to Jackie's questions about living in England and rather less focus on whether she really wants to live somewhere else.

A couple of further suggestions, to try to get the positive, helpful ball rolling.

Where to live? You really have to help us here. How to decide between Westminster and West Whittington in the Marsh? Well, are you urban or rural? Does your job force you to live somewhere. If you're involved withn publishing, do you need to be close to a big publisher, or can you telecommute?

Do remember that commuting shortish (20 miles or so) distances can take forever, and seriously damage your quality of life - though some much longer train commutes can work (Brits work slightly shorter hours than Americans - which means longer than in almost any other affluent country - but, especially in SE England, have just about the world's longest average travelling times, which can lead to extraordinary levels of stress)

Your location is key to what comes next. Most young people in London flatshare till they're ready to set up their own household: renting a house would be the most common solution for families on 2/3 year relocations in what's known in the jargon as ROSEland (Rest Of the South East: the area within 100 miles radius of London than isn't London). If you've got the means, and you're determined to live here for a while, you may as well buy now rather than funding a landlord. There's little point going through each of these without some guidance from you.

For living costs you need real data as opposed to anecdotes about the cost of Coke in a convenience store next door to a tourist honeyspot. The EIU's cost of living database is probably best for this (www.enumerate.com, though I think there's still a hard copy too): if you can't finagle access from an HR chum, many Business or Export Information Centres have access. Do remember to cost in the things you don't have to pay for here (like health).

As my final post on the subject..
I can say that Glyns words really do represent the feelings of the majority of Welsh people who are patronised daily by the English media in particular, in many walks of life.
The thing is that unless you are welsh you would never understand this culture.
Its a bit like the protestant catholic thing in Northern Ireland, why is it an issue? I don't fully understand why, but it is a really big issue to them, as history shows its in their culture.We probably can't change it and we probably never will.
Obxgirl, for the reasons mentioned above it is NOT ok to generalise all of the UK as England. We are not England.
Janis, the only question that would be asked is What part of England is Wales in? It has happened believe me.
And Neil I am surprised at you :-( You know the generic name is either UK or GB and that Cardiff will never ever be in England.

OK that's me finished on the subject.

Good luck thinkpinkpop with what ever you decide, just always remember the other UK stakeholders are fiercly patriotic.As you can see.

Muck

;-)

flanneruk - touche, the Devil (in the form of 'settlers' made me do it. I did set out to make a serious point, though - some people are quite unsuited to being emigrants, but may only find that out too late to do anything about it, so it's a good idea to have an escape hatch prepared if possible. I'm sure thinkpinkpop will benefit from your positive information.

Mucky, the Devil made me do that too - I really must attend chapel more often. BTW, I think the root cause of protestant/catholic antipathy in N. Ireland is not theology but the forcible dispossession of the native population by Scots and English settlers. The fact that the natives were Catholic and the immigrants Protestant provided a convenient cultural marker and rallying point for the troubles of the subsequent 300 years.

Hi Neil,

You are forgiven my son..

His holy muckiness mucky

Wonder why thinkpinkpop hasn't come back again...at any rate, I don't see the need to jump all over her because she said England instead of UK. Glyn and Mucky, there have been plenty of posts here by people who said they want to move to Provence or the Dordogne or Tuscany...did you assume in those cases that they didn't know they were hoping to move to France (for P and D) or Italy (for T)? You're jumping to a conclusion based only on your own stereotypes. Maybe she's trying to connive a transfer and if you look at the McGraw Hill web site, its UK offices are all in ENGLAND.
We are moving to ENGLAND ourselves in a couple of months. I usually say we're moving to the UK, but I would be equally correct if I said England, because that's where we're going.
Hmm...considering the kneejerk hostility of some of the UK respondents, maybe on reflection, no wonder jackie hasn't posted again!

Glyn Williams doesn't think there are strict immigration rules? Try being on the reveiving end of them: I'm a Brit by racial background, but can I get in? No way. I think Glyn is maybe confusing the "rules' with the frequency by which many people flout them. For those of us who are mildly law-abiding, that isn't really an option.

I've been doing my best not to get into this debate which is nothing to do with the OP's question.

BUT, Brenda, there is a difference (in my psyche at least) between a region like Provence and the Dordogne and a country like England or Scotland.

I would have to agree with Sheila. There are cultural differences and they are also in my eyes separate countries that make up the UK. To me a Welsh person is different country and culture to a Scottish one and Irish (We are not in the UK folks). |Each has different traditions and historical languages. From the outside it may be the same to a foreigner but not to its inhabitants!