Mosel or Rhine
 

Hi,
We are planning a trip in early to mid Oct. to Germany. We are probably flying into Frankfurt and out of Munich. Tentative schedule:
Pick up car in Frankfurt and drive to...
Mosel and/or Rhine area for 4 nights.
Drive to Rothenberg for 2 nights.
Head to Berchtesgaden area for 3 nights.
Stay in Erding by Munich airport our last night.
Question is which town/towns to stay on the Mosel and/or Rhine? Interest here is Burg Eltz, Trier and villages and castles along both rivers. Of course, my wife has always wanted to see the Mosel villages/towns. She loves Riesling wine. Is this too much time here? rcan you recommend a town/place to stay?
We've been to Bavaria 4 times recently, but this will be our first time in this area. Thank you in advance
Paul

To me the Mosel is infinitely more beautiful than the Rhine - the carpet of vineyards punctuated by cute little wine towns has no parallel on the Rhine.

Cochem, Bernkastel, Beilstein are all great towns.

By car it's easy to do both - the short stretch of Rhine that is the Rhine Gorge, which often fails to live up to expectations of Fodor posts.

Trier is off the cute part of the Mosel but is one of Europe's oldest towns and has arguably the finest Roman relics outside of Italy - especially the Porta Negra.

But the drive from Koblenz to Trier along the Mosel has to be one of Europe's most scintillatingly scenic ones. the road follows the sinuous course of the Mosel Valley - with opft vineyard clad limestone slopes going up nearly 1,000 feet on both sides.

Couldn't say it any better than Pal. The drive from Cochem to Berkastel-Kues is beautiful.

Burg Eltz - Tremendous

Haus Lippman in Beilstein - Nice hotel choice. Rooms face Mosel. Dining area outside on the patio. Good prices. Nice host.

((H))

mail: i've heard so many glowing posts about Haus Lippmann in Beilstein, a tinier but oh so dreamy village - could you give me a bit more on why this hotel charms everyone it seems. Little guesthouse?

thanks

the boat ride between Cochem and Beilstein is tremendous as is biking on paths along the road. (I led bike trips for ten years up the Mosel to Luxembourg and everyone loved the area - and its wines - if you have a chance cycle downstream with the wind in this rather wind tunnel.)

bikes can easily be rented and some hotels may supply them.

Another vote for the Mosel, Burg Eltz (my favorite castle), Beilstein and the Hotel Haus Lippman.

The rooms are charming and not expensive (as I recall), food is served on a vine-covered patio, is very good, and is not expensive. It is one of my favorite places.

Orignally, they gave us a room on the third floor, but when the hosts saw that I was walking with a cane, they asked if we'd like a room lower down and they gave us a lovely second floor room. Very thoughtful of them.

We met the chambermaid, and when she asked where we were from, we said "Spokane, Washington." She said, "Oh, the Evergreen State," and told us she had worked in the Seattle area for a while. It was a very pleasant encounter.

Haus Lippman - Rufus Firefly alerted us to this tiny hotel back in 2003.

As stated, most, if not all, of the rooms face the Mosel.

Herr Lippman was a gracious host who greeted us at our first lunch (when I was so tired I almost passed out in the goulash soup).

The food, in my opinion, was very good, and the view out onto the Mosel made it a great experience when dining (or drinking with the reunion class from Bernkastel-Kues who were visiting).

Hotel is convenient to Cochem (about 10 minute drive), and not too far from Burg Eltz. The drive down to Bernkastel is lovely (although I would skip Zell). criss-crossing the river.

I love the ambiance of the little town (not for people who are in to a big nightlife, however). That said, on Friday and Saturday nights just take a few steps from the Haus Lippman and (from my trip report):

"In back of the Haus Lipmann is the Zehnthauskeller (owned by Herr Lipmann's brother-in-law). We got there about nine o'clock and the place was hopping full of Germans singing folk songs and other stuff being led by a guy on organ and I think a synthesizer.

The only table was in the front. I walked around and heard no English speaking people anywhere. Perfect.

We ordered some wine, and two German couples sat at the other seats at our table. The next song was about two seconds long when one German lady locked arms with Tracy and one German guy locked arms with me and the songfest had begun in earnest."

We wish we could have stayed another couple of days in Beilstein. We want to go back and rent bikes to ride along the Mosel.

It's just a tranquil spot in a very lovely part of the world.

((H))

Several factors make Haus Lipmann a wonderful place to stay. The Lipmann family is foremost. They are so friendly and accommodating to their guests. The rooms are nice, not luxurious, but nicely furnished. The Hotel is right on the river with grape vines on the exterior patio. As stated previously, there's just a special ambience in Beilstein.

I never stayed or spent time in Beilstein but rode my bike thru it but isn't there some dreamy old ruin in town?

Lippmann sounds like one of those one-of-a-kind places people dream about when thinking of Europe.

Both are nice in their own way, and w/ 4 days, you needn't choose. See some of both.

Hi,
Thank you for the informative replies! I guess it looks like a town on the Mosel would be best. Thinking of Beilstein, Cochem or Bernkastel-Kues. We actually prefer more of a quiet setting, no need for "nightlife" really. Am I correct in thinking that a day trip from one of these locations to Marksburg Castle and say St. Goar or Bacharach is doable? Thanks again.

Paul

Mosel without a doubt. A day trip to St. Goar or Bacharach is very feasible. I think Bacharach is a more "authentic" town and St. Goar quite touristy and a bit more industrial. Lots more to see in St. Goar - but if you want a quieter locale see Bacharach. If you are interested in a little hike, you can find the trail by the old church that takes you up to the castle (youth hostel) at the top of the hill. There is a viewing area on the west side of the castle that gives great photo opportunities. If you don't want to hike (it takes about 10 - 15 minutes) you can drive if you get directions. I'm jealous of your time just thinking about the wonderful trip you will have.

Thank you for the reply

paul

We enjoyed our 3-night stay in Beilstein very much 5 years ago. Hotel Haus Lipmann was very enjoyable (wonderful restaurant, too). We had a large room overlooking the river. I'm an early riser while my wife likes to sleep in. So I would watch boat traffic and waterfowl from our window, and/or take a stroll along the river or up to the castle while she slept.

Quiet and relaxing oasis at the end of a long day of sightseeing.

Beilstein is the quintessential, quiet town and Haus Lipmann is a great place to stay. We stayed there for 4 nights in 2006 and loved the views, rooms, hosts, food on the terrace, and the breakfast room. We drove up and down the Mosel discovering little villages and enjoying the scenery. I would think the daytrips you asked about would be totally doable...Enjoy!

Rick Steves has provided a nice introductory walk on Beilstein:

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/desti.../beilstein.htm

Note on Haus Lipmann, they do not accept credit cards so be prepared to pay in cash for your stay.

Burg Metternich is the name of the castle ruin above Beilstein. Great views from up there. Also worth a visit is the Carmelite Church.

Two years ago, we stayed in Bacharach and just loved it. Small but not too small. The Rhine River is definitely "busier" than the Mosel but this part of the Rhine is quite pretty.

Do the Wine route... we did in October and it was wonderful. We spent the night in Strasbourg and Obernai. Obernai is a small walled town. You can see our pictues on our web site. emilyandjim.info on yahoo....

She loves Riesling wine.
I don't think you will find the wines labeled as variatals (like riesling). However the area is famous for white wines and there are three basic tastes, 'suess' (sweet), 'halb-troken' (half dry) and 'troken' (dry). Bottoms up.

Hi all,
Thank you for all the helpful info. Jim, thanks for the "link", I enjoyed your photos. We've been planning to see the Mosel/Rhine area and Rothenberg for a few years now, but have wound up going back to southern Bavaria, Austria and Sud Tirol. This year I think we'll finally be going here. Thanks.

paul

"I don't think you will find the wines labeled as variatals (like riesling)."

German wine labels are strictly governed and must show, among other things: the quality level, the place of origin, the grape variety, and the vintage date. If it is a riesling, the label will tell you.

We stayed at Pension Hendricks in Cochem last Spring. It's up hill from the downtown on a very quiet street. Inexpensive B&B. Small but comfortable room with private bathroom. Great breakfast.

http://www.pension-hendriks.de/

Our trip report is here:

http://www.slowtrav.com/tr/triprepor...59&index=0

Photos here:

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slidesho...p;conn_speed=1

Having travelled by train 2 springs ago, staying in Beilstein was not feasible. But I DID take a daytrip on the boatline, and had 4 hours to explore town before boat pickup (maybe a bit too much time for this tiniest of 'towns'). I DID take the suggested Rick Steves climb up to the old castle ruins (lovely walk and views from above, with an outdoor cafe for relaxing). I passed only ONE person on the hike beyond the castle ruins to the old Jewish cemetary...it was a lovely solitary walk and time for reflection---I highly recommend it.
I did have lunch in Haus Lippman's vine-covered cafe and watched the local ferry transport people back and forth, and the cyclists go by across the Mosel...oh, to return soon!

Mosel Wine pecking order:

Tafelwine - table wine - generic
Qualitatswein - better quality with i think grapes largely coming from one area

Qualitatswein mit Pradikat (sp?) more specific origin on grapes

Auslese - late harvest - sweeter

Eiswein - the rarest - made from grapes only after they have frozen on the vines - a dessert wine

we stayed in cond, a quiet area across the river from cochem. from our balcony, we had a view of cochem and a castle, high on the hill, that was lighted at night. our one bedroom apartment was great in every respect. we drove one day to check out the rhein and enjoyed bacharach very much, but cochem was a better base, since we biked up and down the mosel.

Thanks everyone. Your info, trip reports, advice and photos are very helpful! If anyone has a recommendation on where to stay in or near Rothenburg, I'd appreciate any info on that also. Maybe a new post for that?

Paul

It's been quite some time, but we liked Gasthof Goldener Greifen in Rothenburg. It's about s600 or 700 years old (I found that out when I clunked my head going in the room one night after a few too many schnapps....they grew them shorter back then).

Good location inside the walls. My wife still remembers the fantastic comforters.

I think I have read recent reviews of people who have liked it, but you might want to check it out on the web. Just google the name.

((H))

A nice castle hotel with a good restaurant just a few kms. east of Rothenburg: Burg Colmberg.

http://www.burg-colmberg.de/

We stayed in Shillingsfurst which is on the Romantic Road between Rothenburg and Dinkelsbhul. I don't know if this is what you're looking for but it's the entire second floor of the house (one big room) for less than 50 euros a day. (last years rates)
The owners don't speak English, but they turned out to be one of our favorate hosts on our entire trip. Here's a link:

http://translate.google.com/translat...andert%2Ede%2F

Be warned that if you decide to take a hike among the vineyards, you will be in for a shock. The Mosel hillsides are covered with vineyards, and the vineyards are covered with slabs of slate. Yes, there are pathways that connect the villages, winding over the steep hillsides. But the sun turns those hillsides into furnaces, thanks to the heat-absorbing and heat-reflecting slate. We know because we decided to make the hike from Traben-Trarbach to Bernkastel. Big mistake. We almost were fried by the time we escaped from those infernal grapevine-covered slopes. Must have been 110 degrees up there.

And don't go into the vineyards themselves but stay on the paths tractors use - fear of disease - i've been yelled at before for taking a better look at the grapes.

Wow, thanks everyone! These are exactly some of the questions I have about the Mosel area. I hope to visit next year!

July seems to be the busiest season here followed by Aug - lots of dutch and belgians flock here because of the hills i guess

Jun or Sep would be perfect

one neat thing about the Mosel is the ubiqutious Wine Festivals that every town has once or twice a year - if you are driving or biking the valley it's a given that you will stumble across one of these intoxicatingly fun events and then literally stumble away

Pal, you are right on. September was a perfect time to visit the Mosel.

For those who stay along the Mosel, here is a little short cut to Burg Eltz I wrote about in my trip report.

"We finally met our first Americans at breakfast. They had tried to drive to Burg Eltz the previous day, but had gotten lost. I am not a big Rick Steves' advocate, but sometimes he does give good advice, and he did not fail us on this morning.

The Americans we had met left ten minutes before us. I had read in Steves' book not to follow the signs to Burg Eltz, because those were longer hikes. Instead we ignored the Eltz signs in Moselkern and followed the signs to Munstermaifeld as he had suggested. We kept the faith because it seemed like we were headed in the wrong direction.

However, in about seven kilometers we came to a 'T' in the road. Signs to Burg Eltz were seen again. We made a left and went though Wierscheim and from that town's exit sign it was only 2km to the Burg Eltz Upper parking facility. It was an easy 10 to 15 minute walk down to the castle from there."

Views of the castle on that short hike are terrific!

We did the entire tour, and afterward, as we were leaving, two very sweaty Americans met us and were perplexed that we had already taken the tour.

They had gone the other way and had to take the long, hot hike up. I'll never forget the look that poor man's wife gave him.

((H))