Mosel And Rhine
 

Hi All - we are heading to Germany for 2 weeks in mid May. We are flying in and out of Munich - flights already booked. I have a few questions re: the route I have planned so far: (btw - I know flying into Frankfurt would work better given our route, but we've already got our flights booked so we have to work with what we've got).

We will pick up a rental car as we are leaving Munich.

Day 1-3 Munich Lodging probably at possibly Hotel Torbrau
Day 4 Rothenburg ob de Tauber - lodging at Historic Hotel Gotisches-Haus
Day 5 Oberwesel - lodging at BurgHotel Auf Schonburg (this is already confirmed)
Day 6 and 7 (and maybe 8) Mosel and Rhine - Hotel Haus Lipman in Beilstein
Day 8 and 9 Garmisch-Parten/Zugspitze ( or Fussen)
Day 10 - 12 Berchtesgaden/Konigsee - lodging Hotel Garni Zum Turken
Day 13 Salzburg - Boutiquehotel am Dom
Day 14 Back in Munich/Fly home

Here are are my questions:
1. What do you recommend for a good central place for lodging in Mosel and Rhine, I don't believe Beilstein is optimal but we were hoping to make it to Trien, however that's not a MUST if it doesn't work out time-wise. We love wine so we definitely want time to do some wineries/wine-tasting and would love to stay at a winery if there's one that is on our route and would be a unique experience ( we live near the NorCal wine country so have stayed at wineries several times and we thought it might be a nice experience in the Germeny wine country, though we really aren't sure so we are looking for advice). We don't want to stay at a winery just for the sake of staying at a winery, if that makes sense.
2. Day 8 and 9 - looking for recommendations of Top Must See's given our limited time and also recommendations on what would be a good base for lodging in this area. We prefer small villages to larger towns and really don't like super touristy things but having said that, we want to see the highlights. You will probably ask what our interests are - generically they are probably much like others visiting this area for the first time. We like castles, history, architecture, hiking ( fit enough to do most anything that's considered moderate/average - definitely not like a 20 year old but definately would be considered active). We love beautiful outdoor/scenery, husband loves beer. We aren't so much into shopping and care little about night life per se. We are happy with a bottle of wine with dinner and then calling it a night so we can get an early start the next day.
3. Does the overall itinerary look good - anything missing or anything that can be removed? Ideally I'd like more time in Salzburg but I'm not sure where to shave a day so we are left with only 1 day ��

Would welcome any feedback or answers to my questions.

Thank you,
Shelley

Zugspitze for sure. I have done it three times and would do it again. The Gorge is also a beautiful walk, just follow the trail and go above the gorge also. There is a little beer garden there. While there go to Ommeramergau, not that far and you will pass Ettal which is a good stop.

Boppard might be a good base.

Great hotel pick for Berchtesgaden. I do like Rothenburg ob de Tauber when the tour buses are there and better when they leave at night. The square has more than the night watchmen tour so keep an eye out for other entertainment.

I believe what you will find on the Mosel is slow travel if you follow the river route. I have stayed in Beilstein and the further you follow the river, the distance/time equation increases. It is quite a drive to Garmisch from there. Burg Eltz is very interesting if you do travel to the Mosel.

Have stayed at the Zum Turken. The hotel has its own entrance to the tunnels dug into the mountain. I also spent considerable time at the Documentation Center, which explains the rise of the Nazi party in great detail. If you have an interest in history, be sure to include this.

Huggy, have you been to the Documentation center since they enlarged it? You can also see some of the bunkers from there.

Not for about 5 years but plan to return in late November. I have been there twice and found it very worthwhile and thought provoking.

The Mosel is easily accessable from the motorway (that goes no where) from the south parallel to the Mosel. The final bit requires a simple drive through the woods.

If I also wanted to go to Trier, I would look at Colmar, which I dislike but has a bunch of hotels and restaurants in a small space under private castle. I prefer to stay in some of the quieter villages like Urzig or Traben-Trabach if you want a bit bigger.

Hi Macross, thanks for your for the advice on Zugspitze. That was high on our list so i'm happy you confirmed that as a MUST DO - we will be sure to keep it on our list.
Given our schedule, in your opinion, should we spend 2 nights in GP vs another town like Fussen? If GP, we are looking at the Orpee' Hotel in Regenburg or Hotel Waxenstein? I understand both are close to GP. Huggy mentioned it's a long drive to GP from Mosel/Rhine, with that in mind should we alter our itinerary in some way?

In terms of lodging for Mosel/Rhine, Are you suggesting not staying in Beinstein and instead staying in Boppard for 2 nights? Also, are you familiar with either of these 2 hotels/towns? KlosterHornbach in Sudwestpflaz or Weinhaus Henninger in Kallstadt? Would either location fit into our itinerary? If not, I'll go back and look into Boppard lodging options.

Regarding Rothenburg, do you think we should skip the Night Watchmen tour and find other things to do?

Thanks so much for your help. It's much appreciated.

Hi Huggy, The Salt Mines/tunnels are on our list and I'm happy to hear that the hotel has it's own entrance. That sounds pretty cool. And we'll try to find time to add the Doc Ctr, as well. Sounds very interesting.

We do plan to see Burg Eltz.

You mentioned that GP is a long drive from Mosel/Rhine, do you recommend some kind of adjustment to our itinerary? Either something we cut out or some other place we use as a hub in Mosel/Rhine or instead of GP? Perhaps we skip Trier? Anything else you think we can do to make this more appealing? We aren't opposed to longer drives if the scenery is beautiful and there are little villages to stop in, etc...

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.

Shelley

Hi Bilboburgler, Do you think Trier is a MUST SEE or is it too far out of the way to add to our itinerary? If we do end up going to Trier, like you, we would prefer the smaller villages would look at Urzig or Traben-Traben. Would either make a good base for a 2 night stay to see the Mosel/Rhine and then head to Garmisch?

Shelley

I have a few other questions, as well.

1. Can anyone point me to a good Mosel/Rhine map that includes both as well as GP? i've searched all over and haven't come up with anything workable. I don't need it to be super detailed - I just need something I can look at to help plan a route of the things we want to do. ie: I'd like it to show towns/villages but it doesn't need to be as detailed as a driving map. We'll get one of those too but I know where to find that. I'm looking for something I can use to determine the route we'll take so i can map our a plan and then be making lodging reservations.

2. Our plans were to drive thru the Mosel/Rhine on our own in our rental car and stop along the way at the following sights (not in this order, of course -would help if someone could help me with the route for these ,actually):

1. Burg Eltz
2. Trier?
3. A few wineries (not sure which ones yet - Stephans Wine Paradise in St Goar may be one - please suggest others, we prefer reds but i know whites are what is in the area though I've read there are some good pinot noirs in the area which would be of interest to us)
4. Reichburg Castle and/or Marksburg Castle
5. Linz am Rhein? Or any other small quaint village that you recommend
6. I'd love to rent bikes in one of the little villages and just ride around at leisure to sightsee - perhaps Linz is a good place to do this?
7. Rhine Gorge?

3. Nuerengurging (Auto Race track) in Nuerenburg - my husband is a car enthusiast so i'm looking into adding this to our itinerary in between Munich and Rothenburg, just a few hours so he can do one of the drives. Has anyone done this? is it worthwhile for a experienced car enthusiast/driver? Mind you, it's not my thing, and I truly have no interest, however, I thought it looked like something my husband would really enjoy since he's done Bonderaunt, Formula 1, etc...and really likes that kind of thing.

Thanks Again,

Shelley

Before you decide on your list of visited places, you need to review a map to see if you can even think about accomplishing half your list. I use google maps which is very easy to manipulate. Many people have stated that drive times are seriously under defined. However it does list distances. For example, Trier to your next destination Garmisch is 571 km, a full days drive.

Before you get too far down the road with planning, you need to determine what is possible given your time constraints. You can order many type maps for Germany via the internet.

rome2rio.com check them out. I would just stay in Garmisch for two nights at least or three. You can use it as a base. The night watchmen tour is hokey but very fun.

Trier ancient buildings and Karl Marx are very interesting, only you can say if that is what draws you to Trier. I've been there 4 or 5 times for the buildings, the hiking and the wine. So, sorry up to you but yes probably too far.

I prefer bike down the Mosel, lots of day bike hire and you can take bikes on trains to come back at very little cost.

I'd choose Urzig because it is a great big bowl of vines set into a cliff, some top end restaurants etc. Follow my name back to Sept 2017 to see a wine tour of the area I did. We stayed in town for 4 nights this time, but we've been before. Little to do in the evening but eat and drink unless there is a festival on. I might look at town websites to see what is happening in each town.

Some hotels in Traben Trabach have pools etc but even here everything will be low key unless there is a festival

If you want bigger look at Bernkastel-Kues (there is a wine library in Kues ~E20 a glass and 120 open bottles enjoy).

Thanks Huggy. I have actually looked at maps many times and also googled distances and as a result have decided to take Trien off of our itinerary.

Swanner:

Just to be clear, the tunnel entrance at Zum Turken lead into the underground tunnel complex at Obersalzburg built by the Nazi's and not the salt mines.

Yes Trier is a neat city with stellar Roman relics but on your limited time I'd concentrate on leisurely driving along the Mosel - perhaps to Burg Eltz and back.

Thanks for clarifying 😊

You'll have about half a day in Salzburg and that's sad - I'd cut a day of Berchetsgaden and put into Salzburg.

Thanks Palen Q - I will try to adjust our schedule to have 2 nights in Salzburg, per your advice.

Shelly, in case you haven't read this (I have posted it before): A favorite castle of mine is Burg Eltz: Drive to Landhotel Ringelsteiner Mühle, park there and walk through the woods along the Elzbach River to Burg Eltz. The castle itself is still a residence and an unmolested example of German castles (never sacked by the French). They have an EN tour and a small museum. There are two food services and I like to have lunch on their patio before walking back to the car. If you don't dine at the castle, the Ringelsteiner has a dining room and also a fresh supply of pies and cakes to complete your hike.

A nice tour in that area is up/down the Mosel River valley. It is generally less crowded than the Rhine. After your Eltz tour, wind your way to the oldest town in Germany, Trier. It's also a favorite to me because of all the Roman structures.

Shelly, I didn't see a response to your question. Are you sure you don't mean the Nürburgring near Nürburg, Germany? I have been there a couple times - the most recent for the 24-hr event just last year. If DH is a car guy, this is a world famous landmark. Whether it is worth a stop depends on the events of the day. Although I have been in a race car on the track, I haven't tried to drive a rent car on it. Check the website for a calendar of events and more details about accessing it.

You are staying at the hotel in Salzburg that we enjoyed last November. Depending on what time you get there, if time permits, I'd walk around the old town and check out the cemetery near the base of the castle. RS has a good audio walking tour that we really enjoyed. On your full day, walk up to the castle and take a tour, or you can take the funicular. There is a small bakery near the base of the funicular and near the entrance to the cemetery, which we wanted to check out, but it was closed.

Dinner suggestions include the Blaue Gans (Blue Swan) or Gasthof Goldgasse, across from your hotel.
There is also a sweet opportunity to hear a duet at the Old Residence. We sat in the former kitchen area that stored the fish in cement tanks. Very intimate. https://www.agenturorpheus.at/event-locations

Take the Nightwatchman's Tour!!!! Don't miss it!! We loved it!

VolCrew,

So sorry for the delayed response. I haven't been able to get on Fodors Forums for several days. Thank you so much for the information; it's most helpful and I'll print this and bring it along in my little itinerary binder that I've created,

Yes, Burg Eltz is most definitely on .our list, as is Trier. What I didn't know or have on our plan is the hike to/from Burg Eltz - that sounds terrific - thank you for the tip.

One other question I meant to ask, is there a specific area that you recommend for bike riding in the area?

Hi Again, VolCrew - yes, my husband is a HUGE car guy, specifically Mustangs (our daughter's name is Shelby, if that helps to put it into perspective - lol) so I know he'd love to fit that into our itinerary (although, just between you and I, I have no interest :))

I sent them a note a couple of weeks ago, but got no response. Their website does not give any detail on whether or not i can schedule a 2 hour (or whatnot) ride/drive for him with one of their cars.

gailscout - thank you for your input and suggestions. I will be printing your suggestions, as well, for Salzburg as we do plan to spend time in old town. So adding the cemetery sounds like a great suggestion. thank you. and yes, we planned on doing the Night Watchman Tour in Rotthenburg. Just hoping it's not too hokie :)

Question for Fodorites:

Between Oberwesel - (Burg Hotel Auf Schonburg) and Garmisch area, is there a recommended small quaint village or area for sight seeing/lodging anyone recommends? I know Heidelburg/Stuttsgart are along the way but they seem like bigger towns than what iwe are looking for....

One other question I meant to ask, is there a specific area that you recommend for bike riding in the area?>

Yes along the Mosel from Beilstein upriver or downriver to Cochem - bike paths hug the river the whole way. Hotels may have bikes and rentals abound in places like Cochem - indeed Mosel one of Europe's primo biking venues. too bad you have so little time there.

Thanks PalenQ.

I notice that you plan to spend day 13 in Salzburg, and for day 14 you have " back in Munich, fly home". Unless your flight is late in the day, I would suggest returning to Munich by the evening of day 13.

No need for river cruise. but you can put your car on flat ferry to cross the Rhein.. not sure about the Mosel.. Bernkastel-kues is a must stop. i have been several times to the area and have some trip reports on Fodors under my screen name form years ago. they may help. There is so much to see. it is a lovely area. if you are near Mainz do stop to see the blue Chagall stained glass windows in the church there. Do not stress about the accommodations. If they get good reviews they will be clean and pleasant, no matter the price. We spent very little and were pleasantly surprised at all accommodations in the smaller towns.. You will find some recs in my reports.

Have fun. I LOVE the Mosel and Rhein. It is very slow going, though because you keep stopping to check out the cute towns. Do not miss Burg Eltz. That will take a few hours, between the hike from parking lot to visiting the castle and having something to drink on their scenic view patio and then getting back to the car. I have never gone less than 4 nights and ONLY to the Mosel and Rhein. Went to Trier my first trip.. never been back but have repeated Burg Eltz and Bernkastel Kues and several of those cute towns all three visits, adding some every time.

Flat along the Mosel there are bike rentals and you can ferry across and do the other side, too. Or there are wonderful biking areas around through the German biking association maps. Don't have that handy right now.

Hi - we actually will be in Salzburg for 1.5 days, maybe 2 full days and will return to Munich the evening of the night before we depart. Thanks for the note. Great advice.

Lincasanova - thank you so much for your note. I could actually feel your warmth towards the area as I read your note. I will most definately read your older reviews (as soon as I can carve out some time - and I'll look for lodging recs. I must confess that I love mixing up our lodging - abit of luxury lodging (it's vacation so it's nice to get pampered for a few days) along with some cute little inns (often times moderate to lower cost choices) because to me, those are the places that I enjoy the most. I avoid "chain hotels" almost always unless there's no other decent option. The point being, I'm guessing your lodging recs will come in handy �� I'm so happy to hear your glowing reviews of berkastal-K use. That's a village I was actually just starting to research so you've just saved me a bunch of time in deciding if it's on our Must See list.

I do have a question re: Trier. I've been on again off again if it stays on our Must Do list. It's abit out of the way - not a lot - but I kind of prefer the idea of a free form day of biking around Mosel. We will have 3 nights in the area. We definately want to spend a 1/2 day at Eltz Burg. We also want a full day at just relaxing at Burg Hotel Auf Shoenburg. Also, we would like a day of just casually driving around the Mosel Valley stopping at wineries etc. So, we can make time for Trier, if everyone thinks it's a Must Do, on the other hand, I know there's plenty of other things to do if we don't go to Trier. Thoughts?

Are there any specific wineries you recommend? We are red wine lovers and I know this area is best known for its whites (reislings and such), although I heard there's a few good Pinot Noirs, in the area.

thanks for your input. I can't wait to read your reports.

Apologies for some of the spelling and grammar - my PC and iPad are both having issues so I'm struggling through these responses as best I can.

Hi Macross - question for you since you seem to know and love Zugzipite - where do you recommend staying in the area Garmisch or Fussen or? We like lodging that's abit out of the touristy areas and we like smaller boutiquey kind of inns with local charm. Also, do you know much about Lake Contance and if so, is it worth a visit? I found a beautiful castle hotel there that looked nice and I wondered if that would be a feasible lodging option or is it too far away, in your opinion?

Be sure to try the dessert=sweet white Ice Wine - only produced in years when a freeze freezes the grapes on the vine - the most prestigous Mosel-Saar-Ruwer wine I believe.

My husband has a sweet tooth so it won't take much to twist his arm ;) thanks for the tip , PalenQ