Mastering the Art of Ordering Coffee in France?
 

I just don't get it. All I want is a mug size (even large tea cup size) of black coffee. Heck, I don't care if the mug is filled up with espresso -- I'm partial to strong, black coffee!

I should have asked this question at the beginning of our 3 week trip, not the day before it ends, but hope to get one decent size cup before we leave tomorrow!!!

I've tried a "double" and get a demi-tasse size shot of double espresso that is essentially a two gulper. I've tried a cafe "long" and get a thimble size shot that is not even a one gulper. I've asked for "cafe Americain" and just get a weird look.

I've thought of asking for cafe au lait without the lait. Or being really sneaky and running off to the local Casino express and buying a small jar of instant, then asking for a pot of hot water!!!

In the hotels we've stayed in, most have the new coffee machines with a variety on the coffee menu, so when I press "cafe long" or a "double" I get a big cup of black coffee. But sitting in a cafe or even the hotel lobby and asking for the same thing, I wind up with a thimble.

I'm embarrassed to ask this question I've been to France so many times -- but I just cannot master the art of ordering coffee!!

Try café allongé, works for my husband.

If you order a cafe crème or au lait "à part" you will get about 1/2 a large cup of strong coffee with hot milk on the side. But, you pay more than you would for "un allongé."

Well let me try that, thanks! Is the "g" hard or soft? i.e. is it pronounced "gay" at the end?

type allongé (accent is a must) or allonger in http://www2.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php for the correct pronunciation of the word.

Small reminder, in French g is strong with a, o and u and soft with e, é, è and i (and y like in gynécologue complete opposite to your gynecologist) Good luck!

Hi Coco,

Hope you are well.

> in French g is strong with a, o and u ....<

So "Dordogne" is pronounce "door dog knee"? :)

((I))

Well, Ira - you've forgotten the "gn" rule! LOL You'd better get crackin' on the grammar books! :)

I always go for a noisette, but SO has his café allongé and it's big, but weaker than an espresso.

Or you could ask Pal's "French" son.

Michael----thanks for posting the pronunciation site. It works well and I definitely need it.

Or you could ask Pal's "French" son.>

yeh you could and get someone who is a native French speaker and not someone like St Cirq who uses archaic French that no French person under 100 would speak today - like A chacun a son gout or however that archaic phrase that St Cirq insists is in popular use today but is not - at least for the sous troisieme age crowd!

Wow PalenQ - that was snotty.

Adrienne - here is what St Cirq said about my son who was born and raised in France and got honors on his French BAC:

Or you could ask Pal's "French" son.

She is referring to some things I quoted my son as saying about correcting St Cirq in her adamant take that the phrase a chacun a son gout (sp?) is used in daily French - my son and his French mother and others I asked say that is true - that the phrase is archaic and never used in today's French. So St Cirq castigates my 'French' son as I guess being a Faux French - that he does not speak French well, etc.

Do you see that St Cirq's comment here about my son was snotty and rude? St cirq can attack me - fine by when she attacks my son well I will react.

From Quebec here; hopefully the words used here will apply to wherever you are in France-- Un allongé will get you what you want I think, although it tends to be more teacup-size than a mug that one gets in my experience. My friend who gets the allongé here goes for the cafe americano when in the States.

Good luck! Let us know if you're ok with the allongé!

PalenQ - you're very quick to given an opinion on other people's rudeness when you've not read the entire thread and have taken intent out of context or don't understand the background of certain comments. Perhaps there is a history between you and StCirq; perhaps there is not. I can't say but her comment did not appear to be rude, your's did. Her comment simply seemed to reference your French son. That is how you identify him.

No there is a context and the 'French' in referring to my French son was that my really French son simply does not know French very well - it was a totally sarcastic comment that was uncalled for and so was my retort - now I really hope it is ca y'est for both.

and that sarcastic comment had nothing to do with the thread at all - and yes I had read this whole thread and that's why I saw that snarky comment from not so St Cirq.

enough said - I hope editors erase all references, including St Cirq's rude and snotty comment that began it all. There is no place on Fodor's for such rudeness, which unfortunately you seem to condone.

adrienne, Pal has a LONG history of posting things about his French son that indicate he and Pal don't have much of a grasp of the French language - things that are simply spurious. It's not just me who's called him on it - native French speakers have. The latest was that the French call the Brits "Ros Boeufs" because their skin is pink like "the inside of undercooked beef." Quite a few folks noticed how off-base that was, as the expression "les rosbifs" goes back to the 1700s and has nothing to do with skin color, but rather the British habit of roasting meats (which were previously only boiled or steamed), not to mention that "Ros Boeufs" makes no sense in French and what would the inside of a roast have to do with skin, anyway?. Pal brings up this type of nonsense regularly, and, well, sorry if he gets called on it.

to make such a comment in a thread that it totally unrelated is rude - in the thread where I made that comment yes - but to out of the blue make a snarky comment on a thread like this... well carry on St Cirq - I challenge St Cirq to mention one other thing where my son was wrong - she cannot - just this one thing about rosbif - which he and his friends actually believe and thus is correct in a way that some French do believe it - St Cirq thinks he just makes it up.

Pal brings up this type of nonsense regularly, and, well, sorry if he gets called on it - again name me one more thing that he got wrong - and a chacun a son gout that he was correct with as many others concurred.

You fancy yourself a native French speaker and say that native French speakers do not speak French as well as you... rather haughty.

Again St Cirq - give me one more of those things my son 'regularly' gets wrong. I expect silence on that point.

have you tried "un cafe americain"? [un americano will get you what you want in Italy].

or "un nescafe" might work.

I order "un allongé, s'il vous plait". Always works. I don't think I was ever charged more than for an espresso. The only difference is more water (and a larger cup to contain it).

<<to make such a comment in a thread that it totally unrelated is rude>>

You totally plastered the lounge and the Europe board yesterday with snarky, rude comments about me on totally unrelated threads...pot, kettle.

I like my tall steaming mug, too, Surfergirl, and I sympathize. WIll try "un allongé."

Starbucks! ;)

<i>A chacun son goût</i>, but you will never receive mug-sized coffee anywhere in Paris except for those strange Starbucks coffee flavored drinks.

An "allongé" is just an espresso with twice as much water, so it is still quite small. However, any café will provide you with as much hot water as you want so you can dilute your item down to nothing if you want.

mea culpa StCirq -accept my olive branch - you provide a wealth of great info on Paris and France and are a Fodor treasure. Ca y'est? I think we both got carried away - oh river (pardon my French)!

I just don't get it. All I want is a mug size (even large tea cup size) of black coffee. Heck, I don't care if the mug is filled up with espresso -- I'm partial to strong, black coffee!>

I always just ask for "un grand cafe SVP" and I always get a large American-sized mug of coffee - you may want to add "un grand cafe" - I always get "un grand cafe creme" and it is always in a American-sized mug.

and I just asked my French son about that and he said he thought to just ask for a "grand cafe" and you'd get a large black coffee - and he says "un grand cafe creme" would be a large coffee with creme - sometimes the cream comes separately. But he said he has rarely done so and is not sure but that is what he would say - he always just asks for "un cafe" and gets the thimbled-sized strong coffee that comes with sugar in a bowl or sugar pieces you can then add or not.

Actually in Orleans where I stay for long periods I just ask for a "grand creme" as I have heard the waiters say as well.

Truce accepted, Pal. That was most gracious of you.

It's true that an allongé is just watered down espresso, so perhaps if you just ask for a grand café noir that would work better (or not; I've never tried). And a grand café crème does often come with the cream separate, but not always. When I order a grand café crème, it almost always comes in a large cup, though.

I have severe doubts about this "mug-sized" business. A grand café or café crème would come in a cup about half the size of a mug.

well yes what is meant by mug?

never seem large mugs of coffee in cafes - perhaps at Starbucks - sacrilege!

How about bringing your own mug and seeing if they will fill it - at a princely sum of cost I would suspect - French in their homes use dishes - what look like American soup dishes to drink their coffee - at least as big as a mug but do not think these are used in cafes. They hold them with two hands and tip the java into their mouths.

Oops I meant soup bowls not dishes.

I can't say what goes in Paris, but elsewhere in France you can order a grand café at breakfast time, and get a large cup of coffee - probably filtered coffee rather than espresso, and usually weaker than I would like.

I don't usually drink out of mugs, so maybe don't have a correct perception of the size, but I've had and seen thousands of cups of coffee in France, and while I usually order a noisette, which comes in an espresso-size cup most of the time, the grand café crèmes I've had and seen were in a round cup like a small bowl, probably 4 or more inches in diameter and 2-3 inches deep.

I think of them as French breakfast cups. Wide so that you can dip your tartine or viennoiserie in your drink. There are many things I like about French food traditions, but dunking bread or cake in my coffee -- well, that takes the biscuit.

This has gone crazy weird, but turned into a fun thread -- love it! WIll try "un allongé" in the morning and see what happens. Tried the "grand" cafe scenario and got a thimble. Totally hate Star Bucks and saw a ton of them in Paris. The French make great coffee so I hope it's not completely watered down.

In Juan les Pins when I got the one gulp double espresso in a thimble, the woman said she could make it less strong and bigger, but I explained that I liked strong coffee -- just like a LOT of it -- One sips, does the crossword, and smells the smoke from the next table, living vicariously off of people who do things one used to do . . . !

Hmm.. I have noticed here that coffee can be a minefield, but I guess it depends on whether the place serves café crème or au lait in a cup/tasse or bowl/bol. If they don't use the bo(w)ls you seem to be stuck with the cup size.
If they have bols, and you are willing to drive the waiter nuts, you could ask for a double expresso allongé dans en bol, svp. Not sure if that will work, though. Probably not.
I personally like the café au lait in a bol, even though or maybe because I usually lose a good deal of my croissant in it.

Cowboy, when I used to have milk in coffee, I loved it that way too!

There's two cafes that I frequent in my usual hood where I can get a large cup of coffee.

Relais Odeon - cafe creme comes in a large cup

Cafe de Flore - cafe creme comes in a nice large pot and creme on the side.

If you want a large strong black coffee I'd head to Starbucks.

We could elongate (elonge) this thread by asking about the tips (pour boire) required for a drink..

We could elongate (elonge) this thread by asking about the tips (pour boire) required for a drink..>

well a beer is always IME "un pression (une?) or a demi-pression for a small glass.

I hear French folks belly up to the bar and grunt "un rouge" or "un blanc" for a glass of vin de pays.

A pression or demi-pression is a beer on tap. If you want bottled beer, you order it by the name brand, en bouteille. If you're at a bar that has several brands of bière en pression, you'll have a choice. Just like in the States.