Madrid, Barcelona, Seville - help and advice needed
 

Hello, Spain experts,

I am planning our first trip to Spain from June 22-July2 (9 nights). The cities I am most interested in are Barcelona, Madrid, and Seville. However, it is very important for me to have enough time to really explore the cities, not just hit the major tourist attractions. Hence, I have some trouble deciding which of the 3 cities I should visit, and how much time I should allocate for each. I have done a lot of research, but still need some help finalizing the itinerary. Here are the questions:

1. Which combination of cities would you recommend?
a. 3 nights Barcelona, 6 nights Madrid (+ possibly 1-2 day trips)
b. 3 nights Seville, 6 nights Madrid (+ possibly 1-2 day trips)
c. 4 nights Barcelona, 5 nights Madrid (including only one day trip)
d. 3 nights Barcelona, 2 nights Seville, 4 nights Madrid (no day trips).

Options (a) and (b) appeal to me because they offer a more relaxed pace in Madrid… Options (c) gives more days in Barcelona, but do you think it is worth to sacrifice one night in Madrid for a night in Barcelona?
And option (d) looks good because I cover all of the three cities I want to visit… BUT, I don’t want to end up rushing. Do you think that seeing 3 cities in 9 nights is too much?

2. If we do end up staying in Madrid for 6 nights, which of the neighborhoods in addition to the “main” tourist attractions would you recommend? Something off the beaten path, more authentic, less crowded, and SAFE?

3. With regards to the hotels. Since this trip is a break from our hectic lives in NYC, sleep is very important to us. We are not all-nighters, and thus we are looking for a hotel that would be located on a quieter (but SAFE!) street not too far from the center. What would you recommend?
So far, I have the following accommodations in mind:

a. Madrid – Hotel el Prado. The location is great, the price is not too bad… But I am not sure about the noise level in that area. What other hotel would you recommend not too far from the Hotel el Prado area, but not in the middle of all the night life?

b. Barcelona – two options, Barcelona Center Hotel (looks like a central location, but is it noisy?) and Gran Hotel Torre Catalunya (looks like peace and quiet is guaranteed there, but it is further than I would like). Would you be able to recommend a nice and quiet(er) hotel in Barcelona closer to the center?

c. Seville - I haven’t found anything in Seville yet, so if you can recommend something keeping the serenity and central location criteria in mind, that would be great.

4. How safe are the metros in Barcelona and Madrid? If we find ourselves on one at around 2am, should we be worried? Do they operate 24/7?

Thank you thank you thank you for your input!

Elana

It's hard to tell you which option you should pick, since we don't know what your interests are.

For me (and many of my friends), I LOVE Barcelona, but feel lukewarm about Madrid, and warm about Seville. If I were to go back to Spain again, the only place I would return is Barcelona. So, I definitely vote for MORE days in Barcelona and fewer days in Madrid. Of course, there are plenty of posters here who really enjoyed Madrid, more than Barcelona, so there you go.

The reason why I like Barcelona, is because of all the Modernisme architecture.

There are petty crimes in Spain, more so in Barcelona and Madrid. There is just a recent thread (this month) where a regular poster's son was mugged at knife point in Barcelona. Then again, many other posters have visited Barcelona and Madrid without any incidents (myself included).

Thank you for your input, yk... My interests are sightseeing, culture and leisure, scenery, and a somewhat slower pace..

As for the crime - well, every large city has it, so that's not a factor, really...

I have visited Barcelona 3 times , Madrid twice.
Like both cities very much. I would go with c because from Madrid you can easily visit Toledo and/or Segovia.
Metro system is fantastic in both cities, but very late at night I would not take it in any city!
We stayed in apt. so I cannot recommend hotels.
I don't care for Ramblas in Barcelona and Gran Via in Madrid.

p.s.
take a look at Maribel's Guide for great inf.

http://www.maribelsguides.com/

If those were the only choices, I would rec (c) for a first time visitor. I think the area around the Prado Museum is the best area, but I dont know that hotel. In that area 75 yards can be the difference between a comfortable noise level, and too loud. Often its just the quality of windows.
Ive never been robbed there, but Ive seem enough times when others were to tell you to be vigilant all the time.

Sightseeing, culture, leisure and scenery says nothing about your interests -- that's a reason for traveling in general. What is it about Seville, Barca and Madrid that interests you and the Spain experts can elucidate why one city would be better than another.

Option (D) is a no-go. That would take you completely across the country in a short time frame and you'd lose the better part of two days in transit. With your stated intent of leisurely touring, this itinerary would defeat the purpose of your trip. Spain is not small -- if it were a state of the US, it would be the third largest after Alaska and Texas. Ultimately, this means your option is Barca/Madrid or Seville/Madrid and the response on the board would likely be Barca/Madrid.

As for the metro issue -- don't take it late at night. You're on holiday so splurge for a cab instead of taking chances.

And city crime is not created equal. Barcelona has an international reputation for its scams, petty crime and tricks against tourists. Google Barcelona scams and you'll get a gist of it.

Danon and FrankS, thank you for the answers.

So far you all agree that Seville is not worth the visit.. Hmm, thinking thinking....

SEville is worth a visit but given your choices....

Hi, BigRuss.. Thanks.
Well, I had my issues with option D from the beginning, but was hoping perhaps it was still possible. I definitely don't want to come back home exhausted. So it's basically between Barcelona and Seville.

Based on what I've read about Barcelona and Seville, it seems to me that Barcelona is a more vibrant city, with contemporary architecture and a busy night life. And Seville has more of a Spanish essence. But I might be wrong there.

I'm not that interested in checking off museums/cathedrals/etc. I'm looking for the atmosphere, unique experiences, off the beaten path gems, something that would give me a non-traditional view of the city. That is why I am even considering spending a full 6 nights in Madrid - I'm hoping to be able to go on some cultural treasure hunting. However, I do not want to miss out on the second city that I would visit either.

BTW, Danon, I have memorized Maribel's guides. :)

Danon, I understand about Seville.. I wish I would be able to squeeze another two nights into my trip, but I have to get back to real life...

About crime in Barcelona.. From what I understand, you have to avoid the seedy neighborhoods around the lower part of the Ramblas at night, have to travel light (in terms of cash and credit cards), wear some kind of hidden/not easily accessible pouches for valuables, and never for a moment let go of your photo/video cameras... And I got your point about taxis at night.

Thanks.

In my 3 visits to Barcelona I carried my purse while walking around and never worried about anything.
Barcelona is one of my favorite cities: walkable, great museums and galleries, fantastic food, beautiful avenues,
different arch., and right on the sea! What a combo!

A couple years ago I did Madrid/Seville/Barcelona. I have been back to Barcelona and would like to go back to Seville. I liked Madrid but have no great desire to return for a short visit - possibly an extended holiday where I coould immerse myself in the culture.

I feel the most special little experiences and finding hidden gems were in Seville. The size of the city made it easily accessible by walking and public transport. It was here I felt in a truly Spanish (with a Moorish influence) atmosphere.

I loved Barcelona - food, architecture, neighborhoods, music. I'm not certain I could ever have enough of this city.

Our trip was nine days with the time fairly evenly divided between the 3 locations. One suggestion if you were to choose Barcelona and Seville - train it. We flew into Madrid, took a moring train to Seville and then an overnight train to Barcelona, flying out of Barcelona. That way we didn't lose a day in transport between S and B. Plus the sleeper was a fun experience and actually not a bad sleep.

lukehead, thanks for your advice.

We need to fly out of Madrid, so I was hoping to fly to Barcelona. If we decide to go to Seville, an overnight train from Barcelona to Seville would be great.

HOWEVER,

I just checked the renfe.es site, and it does not show any overnight trains from Barcelona to Seville after June 23rd... What happened? Am I checking too early? Is the service limited to certain dates?

Thank you

There is a timetable change in June and not all new train times have been loaded on Renfe site. Just wait a week or so and all should be fine.

Hi,

If you are not planning to go back to Spain anytime soon I would do option d. I would take the train from Mad to Sevilla and then fly from Sevilla to Barcelona. Sevilla is such a different city , it gives you a window into a whole different region of Spain.

I am not a fan of Barcelona, although I have visited several times, however I know I'm in the minority.

However, if you will be unhappy with the checking in and out of hotels that such an itinerary would represent, I would then suggest option C.

I recently stayed at the Hotel Prado and had no noise issue. I think our room faced a side street. In the summer you will be using the A/C, so I assume with that outside noises will be covered. For the price we got I highly recommend the hotel. It was modern and clean and the location can't be beat. But you shop around. I think the economy in Madrid( actually, in Spain in general) is hurting and there are a lot of good hotel offers.

between Barcelona and Seville, I would fly Vueling ( cheap) not travel by train. Seville will be very, very hot in the summer. If you can fly in to BAC and out of MAD, or other way around, you'll save time.

hi elana,
i just got back from a 10 day trip in barcelona (3 madrid with a day trip to Toledo, 2 seville, 2 granada, 3 barcelona). Here is the link to my trip report. http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rip-report.cfm It was pretty hectic, but I'm not sure when we will be returning to Spain so we wanted to see all of those cities and were happy we did. Ideally if I had more days, I would have done an additional day in Seville and an additional day in Barca.

I totally agree with yk on her opinions of barca, madrid and seville. I loved Barcelona and that is one place I definitely want to revisit in Spain. I loved it for the wonderful food and amazing modern architecture. Our hotel was in a great location, Hotel Pulitzer and I would recommend it.

Seville was amazing for the flamenco and the Alcazar and the Cathedral was nice too. I would have liked to visit the Aires de Sevilla spa but we didn't have time. I think you could really immerse yourself in the culture there. It is quite charming.

You can train from Madrid to Seville (3 hrs) and fly 1 hr from Seville to Barca on Vueling (cheap as danon mentioned).

For Madrid, I didn't find it as culturally inspiring, which I'm sure others would disagree. There are a lot of museums, so if that is your thing, then I would go for it. We did a lot of museums in 2.2 days (2 days and one evening) and a day trip to Toledo.

Madrid is a huge city ; we were there for a week ( only one trip - to Toledo). We had the time to look at fantastic museums without a timetable, enjoyed the elegant shops and streets of Salamnca, spent an afternoon walking through Retiro park. Most evenings we liked a drink in cafes near the Palace.
The area around Sol or Gran Via was not my 'cup of tea".
The Palace itself and Parque de Oeste were also wonderful.
We are planing another 5-6 day visit in Oct. ,after a stay in Seville.

Thank you all for replies.

Alec, hopefully the train schedules will be loaded soon. It's challenging to plan the trip without knowing the train schedule...

cruiseluv, I hope to come back to Spain eventually, although not in the near future. I'm very tempted to visit all three cities, but I am trying to cool my head. I don't like city hopping, I just can't chose between Barcelona and Seville! argh.... I'm glad that Hotel Prado has been "verified"! Thank you.

Danon, thank you for your tips. Your pace at Madrid is exactly my style... I'm still reading reviews and suggestions, and still have not made up my mind. Danon, excuse my ignorant question, but by the Palace, do you mean Palacio Real? Where did you stay in Madrid? Do you know where you plan to stay in Seville?

appleta, thank you for your review. I don't think I'll be visiting museums much in Madrid, except maybe the Prado. I'll be looking out for street strolls, flamenco shows, parks, etc. I'm more of an outdoors person.

In Barcelona, I am considering Balmes Hotel. Has anyone perhaps seen it inside or out?

As for flamenco in Madrid in late June, I would recommend you go and see Concha Jareño in Casa Patas. Her solo career seems to be taking off these days, she just won the 2009 Revelation Prize at the prestigious flamenco festival in Jerez. She will also dance in the great Spanish filmmaker Carlos Saura's upcoming theater piece "Flamenco Hoy" which will premiere in Madrid in August. Here she talks about dancing in Casa Patas in a recent interview with one of the most important flamenco magazines: "Now I use the tablao as a laboratory. I’m thinking about new ideas and I test them. Now I’ll do it at Casa Patas, I’ll go alone, I want to display new ideas, record myself… It’s that laboratory point, I go for just a week, I satisfy the itch. I don’t want to dance alone at theaters, that magic you have so up close, the improvisation … it’s wonderful."
http://www.flamenco-world.com/artist...no04052009.htm

Madrid is a fascinating city to walk, great diversity and much of it with a kind of small town feeling. If you temporarily get tired of the city, go to the Casa de Campo park: http://www.gomadrid.com/activity/par...-de-campo.html

In Barcelona you might want to visit the Somorrostro area, the former gypsy neighbourhood close to the Barceloneta beach where perhaps the greatest flamenco dancer of all times, Carmen Amaya (1913-1963) was born and raised. See the fountain (Fuente de Carmen Amaya) that was put up in her honour and inaugurated in her presence and to her great emotion in 1959 on the site of the barrio's old public fountain at Plaza Brugada.
http://www.esflamenco.com/scripts/ne...rmIdPagina=432

If you want a special dining experience, I suggest you go to Cal Pep in the Born district. Many think of this as one of the best seafood tapas-bars in the world. Pep himself is evoking associations of both Jack Nicholson, Don Corleone and Charlie Chaplin and his place is so popular that on any time of the year you must cue up in line at least 15 min before opening time to get a seat at the bar. The food is prepared right in front of your eyes. The monkfish (rape) is divine: http://www.calpep.com/en/principalen.htm

I would also strongly recommend that you have lunch at one of the small tapas bars at the Boquería food market just off Las Ramblas. One of the best food markets in the world and unbeatable atmosphere.

Sevilla is a world apart and you would never regret going there. I nevertheless suggest that you go well prepared and with plenty of time in the spring when it's not that hot and you can experience the Easter celebration or the Feria de Abril. Perhaps use it as a starting point for a "Tour de Andalucía"? This is an excellent introduction to the region:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Andalucia-Pa.../dp/1873429789

One more thing: In Madrid you must visit the beautiful little park Las Vistillas (The small views) close to the Royal castle, the medieval quarter and the viaduct. Definitely one of the most beautiful places in Madrid. The sunset is spectacular with great views towards the Sierra Guadarrama. A nice outdoor restaurant (El Ventorillo) serves tasty traditional food.
http://11870.com/pro/restaurante-ven...u/jesusencinar

yes, I mean the Palacio Real. I am not a "palace' person, but this one is something to see. We found the Armory very interesting.
Near the Palace ( in front of the Opera) there is a lovely small park and several classy cafes .
In Madrid we rented an apt from Spain Select.
In Barcelona we rented (twice) from Habitat
For the trip in Oct. - we may do the same in Madrid ( not sure yet)
In Seville, we'll be staying in a private home.
For more than a couple of days stay, we prefer apt. to hotel rooms.
Cal Pep is always mobbed but eating there was such fun.
I also liked Cerveceria Catalana in Eixample(Barcelona).
Our first time in Barcelona we stayed for 7 days and never left the city. The second time (5 days) we took a day trip to Girona - a lovely place.
People have different styles of traveling - some like to move every few days and see as much of the country as possible, I am in a "lazy" category : take it easy, try to see some areas outside the center of the city, visit only one "attraction" a day, etc..
It is already close to 90 degrees in Madrid ( higher in Seville) so be prepared for very hot weather ( little cooler in Barcelona).

Barcelona beaches seem o.k. but Sitges ( 1/2 hour by train) is known as a resort.

For me "too much", "rushed, etc, is primarily a function of how I spend each day. I can think easily of itineraries where a 4-days stay ends up very rushed while 2-day stays is relaxed.

I have done a trip similar to your (D), with Granada and a day trip to Toledo added. It was a piece of cake. The trip was not rushed. Of course, I didn't see everything. It was not the objective of my trip. I thought about the combination of cities and activities providing the experiences I wanted. An itinerary including Andalucia and Barcelona favors flying between them to save time. I checked out of my Barcelona Hotel at 9am and checked into my Granada Hotel at 1pm.

I love Sevilla. For a major tourist destination, it did not feel as touristy as Granada or Barcelona. I have fond memories talking to the local people.

danon and kimhe, thank you, I took notes. :)

Thanks to all of your great advice, I'm finally getting somewhere :). After much thought and deliberation, we have decided to give up Seville. It's true that it will probably be too hot to fully enjoy it, and 2 nights is not enough anyway. So we are splitting 4 nights Barcelona and 5 nights in Madrid.

Just booked hotel Balmes in Barcelona. According to the map, the location can't be beat for the price. It seems to be a bit away from all the action, and yet within walking distance of many central places. I hope my calculations are not off...

I am still at crossroads with the Madrid hotel... I was set on Hotel Prado, but I am wondering now if it's too central. I do not want to be smack on top of all the action. How is Plaza de Santa Ana? Is it usually too crowded? Should I look for something a few blocks to the side? And if so, to which side?

Thank you all so much again for your help with this trip!

Hi, all..

I have another question to ask of you... I've been looking up train service from Barcelona to Madrid. We're considering taking an overnight train from Barcelona to Madrid for experience and for financial reasons. However, I have a question about the service.

I looked up the schedule on renfe.es site, and I see that the overnight route is serviced by "ESTRELLA 373". There are three categories of tickets for it, Turista, Preferente,
Litera. Which of these is a two-place sleeper cabin? I usually crosscheck with raileurope.com site, but on this site only one type of bed is available for this train - and it's not a private 2-place sleeper cabin (based on rail europe description). So I am confused now.

I was considering taking the June 27 train at 10:20pm. I would truly appreciate if someone could explain the tickets to me, as I do not read in Spanish, and was not able to find the explanation on the renfe.es site!

Thank you.

Plaza de Santa Ana is almost as on top of the action as possible, but you could always ask for a quiet room facing the backyard. If you tell at the hotel that this is a concern for you, they will help you if possible. As for the train: Seems as if the only offer on the 22.20 train is bunkbeds. I would suggest that you take an earlier AVE (Alta velocidad/High Speed train) that takes less than 3 hrs. and costs 109 €/person.
http://horarios.renfe.es/hir/index.j...F=27&SF=6&ID=i
You could have lunch in Barcelona, dinner in Madrid and catch Concha Jareños last show on Casa Patas at midnight...

greg, you're right about "rushed" being a state of mind. However, I'm looking at all the guides for Spain now, and my list of activities is a mile long already. 4 nights in Barcelona just MIGHT be enough if I pace myself. LOL.. I would love to see Seville, but more reasons for me to come back in the Spring few years down the road :).

kimhe, thanks for the train info. So overnight is out of the question. Do you know what the difference is between the regular AVE train and the one that has the <DIRECTO> marker next to it? The DIRECTO one seems to have a web fare rate that looks pretty attractive...

I know that the AVE is fast, punctual and terrific, but the Directo option should be just fine if you don't mind using quite some more time on the train.

elanamig - There are still several afternoon AVE trains between Barcelona and Madrid (for June 27) that offer WEB fares. They are only around €50 per person. You have to grab them soon before they all sell out.

Guys, you're the best. So fast with replies. Hope I haven't annoyed you too much yet...

With regards to the train,

kimhe, the <directo> seems to be faster, by about 20 minutes.. Or am I missing something here...

yk. I see some ESTRELLA tickets that are even cheaper than that.. 65 Euro for 2. Consider, for example, the 5pm or the 7pm trains.. Can ESTRELLA tickets be purchased only within 7-14 day period, or can the be purchased more than 14 days in advance?

Thank you so so much!

BTW, ESTRELLA fare does not show up on the English website. And none of the discounts show up on raileurope.com...

I always go by what Maribe's guides says.

<i>Estrella: a 40% discount (purchased a minimum of 7 days prior) in tourist or first class </i>

If you see the Estrella fare offered, you CAN purchase them. As I said, grab them ASAP or they'll be gone.

Maribel's tutorial:
http://maribelsguides.com/mg_renfe_tutorial.html

P.S. The Estrella fare you saw for the 5p and 7pm trains is €65,70 <u>per person</u>.

yk, you're right, it is per person. I assumed that because I have entered 2 people, it would quote me the fare for 2 people. raileurope.com does that, and I assumed renfe.es does that as well. Thanks for pointing this out...

Thank you so much for your help!

More train questions.

Just read on Marilbel's renfe tutorial that there are baggage limits one AVE trains. Does that mean that these are carry-on requirements, and that there is a luggage car/compartment where we store our big suitcases? I hope it does not mean that the large luggage is prohibited...

Quote from Maribel's tutorial:
"Although Renfe states that passengers are allowed 2 pieces of luggage with a total weight of 8 kilos, the largest bag having dimensions no bigger than 70 x 50 x 25, in practice this is routinely ignored. Passengers carry on as much as they can lift and store themselves. But note that storage is tight with a small baggage area with 3 shelves at the end of each carriage and very limited overhead space above the seats. And Spanish train stations do not have porter service."

And the second question - I'm looking to buy the tickets from Barcelona to Madrid, and that's what I enter into the search box. However, when the tickets come up, and I click the "continue" button, and it shows me the summary of my order, it shows "origin" - Madrid, and "destination" - Barcelona... Does it make a difference, or is the renfe website misbehaving?

Thank you!!

cruiseluv, I have a question for you about Hotel el Prado. On their website, they say that they have rooms with a terrace... Did you happen to see what this terrace overlooks? I would like to request one, but I don't want it if it overlooks some internal space... Thanks!

Hi elenamig,

Sorry, I don't know where those rooms would be. I am trying to envision the outside of the building to see if I picture seeing a terrace but I don't. Maybe Maribel will see your post and comment. She would probably know.

Regarding your train question, there is no special lugagge car/ compartment other than the small area at the end of teh carriage. It is as described by Maribel.

elenamig - the renfe website is tricky - you need to close the browser and open a new one (and perhaps clear your cookies) to ensure you're buying the correct train ticket.

Re luggage, I don't recommend ANYONE bringing large luggage when traveling, esp if public transport is involved. I routinely travel with a 19" rollaboard and some other people here swear by 22" or 24". 70cm = 27.5" BTW.