Looking for Potential Places to relocate to in Spain
 

Hi all! DH and I have a dream of moving to Spain in a few years. We currently live close to San Juan de Puerto Rico, where I’m from. DH is Swiss born but lived many years in the U.S, he moved to PR first because of his job and then for me. Since he now retired and DD has moved out, there is no binding reason to stay in the island anymore. Once we move I will not be working anymore.

Recent events indicate that this move to Europe might actually become a reality and perhaps sooner than we thought. We are now beginning to plan a trip to places in Spain that we have not been to yet, but would like to keep an eye out for potential places to relocate to.

I would love to get suggestions of towns/cities which we could evaluate. We have been two times to Spain and hit most of the biggies; the first trip was to the South (Madrid/Castilla and Andalucía) and the second one to the North (Asturias, Basque Country, Galicia).

<b>The Upcoming Trip: </b>

We are almost ashamed to admit that we have not yet been to Barcelona; this trip will correct that gap. We will be flying in and out of BCN, spending 5 days each in Barcelona and Valencia. I’m planning a route that will take us from Barcelona through Girona, Benasqué, Torla, Jaca/Huesca, Zaragoza, Teruel, Valencia, Tarragona and back to Barcelona. This is a very, very preliminary route.

I might ditch the road trip and hiking in the Pyrenees (Benasqué, Torla, Jaca) and leave them for the time we actually live in Spain. Instead I could go to some other ‘livable’ cities.

<b>What we want in a place to live:</b>

- FOOD! We love to eat and cook, food is a significant part of our lives. We adore Spanish food but we also want to go to a place big enough to have multi-cultural restaurant offerings and where one is able to shop for ethnic ingredients.

- Weather, mild seasons would be the best. DH is concerned that Northern Spain would be too rainy and I prefer a place which is not a semi desert. I have lived all my life close to the ocean and would prefer to stay that way. This does not mean that I have to have a sea view, or having to be able to walk to walk to the beach. But I would like be Oceanside in an hour, an hour and half; something like that.

- Entertainment, even though we don’t go out that much right now with the exception of eating out, we like to have options and not feel like we are out in the boondocks. Once in a while we go to movies, concerts, theatre and ballet. We want to be able to have bars and cafés to go to and be able to participate in community life.

- Nature, we love to hike and take road trips (DH does drive manual) to enjoy the scenery

- Public Transportation, I dislike driving and have not yet learned to drive manual shift (I will work on this in the near future) so I would love to be in a well connected centric location with access to services and entertainment

- Access, I would like to be in a place where I can get to major airport within not more than two hours. The trips back to PR or the continental US are already long enough for visiting with family.

- Health Care Availability, we don’t have any major medical issues right now but we want to be near medical facilities and specialists if we ever need one, hopefully not.

- Authenticity, I want to move to Spain, not into a German, English or any other country colony (talking about the endless summer condo/time shares along the beach from Málaga to Alicante; perhaps all the way up to France and beyond)

Cities in Spain that have seemed ‘livable’ to us are Granada, León, Burgos, Santiago de Compostela. In the rest of Europe some of the cities we have liked are Strasbourg, Karlsruhe, Florence, Bern and Lugano. We dot dislike capital cities but we might not want to be smack in the middle of downtown or historic center where things are completely overrun by tourists during the day and ghost towns in the evening.

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So, where would you Fodorites like to live in Spain? And why? Suggestions would be greatly appreciated and thoroughly considered.


Thanks to all!

Marigross:

In 2011 we visited Valencia(we live in Uruguay, but wife is a native spaniard); we already know Madrid;Barcelona,Vigo,Orense,San Sebastián;Málaga,Mallorca,La Coruña,Santiago de Compostela,Ávila,Segovia and many smaller places.Hands down:Valencia; I told in my report that we both had the idea that we could perfectly live in Valencia, a city that has all you need....
Well, just our opinion...enjoy planning your move...and good luck!!!!

The <b>first step</b>to take on this adventure is to look in the visa requirements. Neither of you hold EU passports.

Food, It is quite hard to find quote <i> multi-cultural restaurant offerings and where one is able to shop for ethnic ingredients.</i> here in Galicia.
Santiago is over 30 mins drive away from the coast. Granada, León, Burgos are even further away from the coast.
There are no direct flights back to the US from Galicia. Everything has to go through Madrid or Barcelona.
For me Public transportation in Galicia is poor once you are outside of the major cities.
In Spain when you use the public health system you can find yourself in other parts of Spain. For example a friend of mine had to have specialist eye surgery. He had to go to Valencia for this.
Some parts of Galicia are drier than what is commonly thought.
We are presently experiencing the driest winter in 70 years after the driest summer in 50 years.

Bilbao, well it is in the north but check the weather records it is not really cold, good wine production nearby. The Picos are nearby and is relatively un-explored for a european mountain range.

The beach areas are well developed and the city is achieving an arts revival

Is money not an issue? Because obviously Barcelona is going to be a whole lot more expensive than some smaller city.

Good morning Marigross

Ironically I heard from my young cousins who live outside of Santiago de Compostela, that they will have to leave the country in order to find work. Both are working on their masters. This is a sad Gallego tradition.

If money is not a problem maybe just outside of Barcelona near one of the rail lines would be good. Not all these rail lines are offered in the RENFE site.

Good luck.

HI marigross,

I once checked out living in Spain. We ruled out Andalucia immediately because of climate, and as we like Madrid (alot) we wanted to be closer to a sunny coast. We gave serious consideration to the Costa Brava, in particular smaller coastal towns between Barcelona and the French border. But like you, we didn't want to own a car, or feel like the only way to get out of town was to rent one, and public transportation in that area is spotty. Like you, we also didn't not want to be in a foreigner's enclave, and much of the Costa Brava is dotted with British communities. Finally, another problem for us was that we didn't like the closest major city -- Barcelona. (But it does have many of the things that you say you want, including ethnic food stores and quite a bit of entertainment).

All that said, I could probably live happily in Girona, It has an airport, a cultural life, easy access to Barcelona for museums, concerts (and maybe even fast train connections now to other places, I don't know). It's an atmospheric place and Girona is just as good when it comes to food as Barcelona as far as I am concerned (although neither is as good as the Basque region).

Valencia, Tarragona and Reus are all place I didn't visit, but would have liked to, and Reus has an airport. If you can squeeze in a visit to Vic, I highly recommend it for an understanding of Catalonian nationalism, which you would surely want to understand if you moved to that area.

More important than the "where" is the "how" - visas, Spanish taxes, and the new US banking laws (Patriot Act residency and FATCA). Have a a look at www.theolivepress.es for a view of what's going on in Spain on the ground. Yes, it's dreary to have to consider all the "hows" rather than food, concerts, etc., but it's very necessary.

Thanks to al for the quick responses!

jelopez33, Valencia is very high on our potential list so we will be spending a few days on this trip to get a feel.


ribeirasacra, yes we will be looking at Visas soon but it is not too hard for Swiss citizens to get them (I will soon get a Swiss passort) particularly as we will not need working visas. I'm almost more concerned about healthcare options.

I meant by access that i cold get by train or car to either Madrid or Barcelona airports within a reasonable timeframe (~2 hours).

We will get a car as we like to explore remote areas and we plan to do lots of short trips, just do not want to depend on a car for everything.

Christina and Adu, I cannot say that money is not an issue, but we would be looking to rent a small apartment so the expense should not be huge (I know that this is relative). We are certainly considering Barcelona but know that a smaller town would be a better value.

bilboburgler, we LOVED the Basque coast but we did not fall in love with Bilbao itsel. The Picos are amazing!!! We certainly look forward to returning.

zeppole, that is interesting, we have identified Girona as a potential candidate.

Thaks to all again!

Valencia is my proposal.Well I do live there or at least not far from the city. Mediterranean weather,mild winters and low rainfall compared to most of northern Spain.Good ariport and rail links. For a personal view checkout: http://theartichokeadventures.blogspot.com.es/
If you wanted somewhere a bit quieter then maybe Antequera or next to the sea Malaga in Andalucia.
If you want any tips of visiting Valencia just shout!

Bedar, thank you for the great link. We are already dealing with the banking issue as we are financially split between Switerland and the US, and yes, it is a big thing. Options that we evaluating include retaining US residency or changing to Swiss residency initially and do extended stays before moving from a tax/legal standpoint. Since we won't be applying for work visas, it is somewhat simpler.


Cehegin, Valencia looks better and better as info is obtained. We just need to see if love occurs when we actually go there. The blog looks great.

Any other suggestions from the evening crowd?

I don't have any advice so am just sending best thoughts your way. (Based on FFRR.)

Hola Marigross,

I'm so envious of your plan, wish my hubby wanted to retire to Spain with me!I don't have specific wisdom to share but I'm very partial to Northern Spain. Have you visted Oviedo in Asturias? I find it very quaint small city, great food and not far from León, the Picos and the coast.
Pls keep us posted!

I hope Linca sees this she will very instructive on the entire subject and knows Valencia well.
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If were going to live in Spain it would be near Barcelona and even though I love San Sebastian, I am city kid and there is not enough to keep me occupied.

Details on how to obtain persimmon for citizens of non EU member countries to live in Spain.
http://spain.angloinfo.com/moving/re...-eu-nationals/
You will have to obtain a new DL too.
http://spain.angloinfo.com/transport...ence-exchange/
Health care:
http://spain.angloinfo.com/healthcare/health-system/
<i>I meant by access that i cold get by train or car to either Madrid or Barcelona airports within a reasonable timeframe (~2 hours).</i> That will exclude all of Northern Spain. Best concentrate on the area around BCN that way you will also be near the sea.

Hi Cruise!!! Right now it is just a notch above wishful thinking and it won't happen in the next three years, so we have quite some ways to go.

TD, thanks!!!! We'll see how this goes.

ribeirasacra, thanks for the excellent links.

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Any feedback on Salamanca or Valladolid? Certainly not beach towns but seem to have potential as 'livable'.

I'm considering changing my itinerary (dropping the Pyrinees) to include these cities.

I agree with the comments about Girona. Keep in mind that the first language is catalan, not spanish. Good transportation, nice size city with old town, squares,cafes and shops. Easy to take the train into Barcelona. Not far from great beaches on the costa brava coast.

http://wandering-woman.blogspot.com/...g-started.html
I've been following this person'e blog for a couple of years now-she in her 40's and moved to Salamanca.

I'm also fascinated by this thread, and by the idea of living in Spain...just wanted to send my best wishes!

I would highly recommend a relocation expert in any of the towns you are considering to get a real feel of certain neighborhoods that would be most attractive,( and you may not find quickly on your own) have a city tour and also see a few apartments in the price range you are hoping to stay within. This can all be done in a long morning and is a very popular service.

I also think Valencia is a good match, but I am biased as I live and work here!

Since you like to cook, you may be interested in this fun place I frequent!

http://www.foodandfun.es/

EURA, the European Relocation Association has a list of all bonafide relocation agencies across Europe.

http://www.eura-relocation.com/?p=find.members

A Swiss ( Schengen participant since 2008) passport holder has free movement in all other Schengen countries.

Paperwork for the spouse can be consulted at the Spanish Embassy .

I forgot to add that Valencia has most of the requirements you posted. The transportation system is excellent. Our cultural activities trail Madrid and Barcelona, but we have numerous museums, opera and lots of music events.

Half way between Madrid and Barcelona makes it a lovely triangle. A quick ferry or flight over to the islands.. 5 hours to Granada.

Now we have non-stop seasonal flights to New York as well as Istambul so , things are looking up!

Oh dear, Lin, now I also want to move to Valencia!!

come on over! Rental prices have come down.

Hi Lin!!! We will be spending at least 4 days in Valencia in the upcoming trip. It is high up in our list of possible locations to launch pur Spanish adventure from.

When DH moved to PR we took our own sweet time deciding where we wanted to live, and I was a local! We became our real estate agent's worst nightmare. We rented for a full year and continued shopping before deciding on a house. Must say that 15 years later we are still happy with it, we just feel that the overall quality of life in PR is declining fast and its time to explore something new. So we would do first a short term rental in the selected city and then either move on or look into long term rental. I dont think we would purchase in the near or midterm future. At this point we are just querying for good options.

And yes, the relo agent is excellent advice.

As I have family in spain and lived in Malaga, if you like the ocean and a warm climate near the ocean, I would live on the outskirts of Malaga, perhaps "Rincon de la Victoria" which is beautiful! Lots of Brits around that love the area as well.

Ah I envy those who make the move. What about being near an airport to fly to anywhere else in Europe?

Exactly. Renting, of course, IS the logical approach. A relocation agent is not the same as a real estate agent.

Good luck. Hope your trip is as informative s possible.

Near Málaga would also be wonderful. Better weather, too, in general.

scrb11, she mentioned that as one of her priorities. Fairly easy to comply with in Spain.

chapla, thanks for the blog. I also studied in Salamanca. Love reading about her adventures!

Lin, DH is very interested in Málaga too. I'm trying to work out an itinerary to include it but, after all, its only 3 weeks vacation and we want to enjoy. I'm pretty sure we'll make at least one more scouting trip before making any kind of move.

Studying in Salamanca.........hummm. A class here and there wouldn't be bad. Something more to ponder upon.

Thanks to all once again!

marigross,

I don't know what kind of "decline" in Puerto Rico has troubled you, and I don't know how much you keep abreast of European economic issues, but Spain is facing very difficult economic times with a lot of reason to believe that only dramatic changes in EU policy that are out of Spain's control could begin to make the situation better. There is near-25 percent unemployment (with youth unemployment almost double that) and a political commitment to greater austerity rather than greater growth.

I'm not warning you against relocating to Spain, nor am I suggesting you would fare better in another EU country (least of all Italy), because Spain's problems, unless they are solved, will cause the rest of Europe difficult problems. But your reconnaissance really should include following the economic turmoil. Just today, The Financial Times ran a news report headlined: "Spanish Economy: Gathering Gloom." It is worth reading, as the entire paper is regarding the EU and the euro, on a daily basis.

I know you will not be looking for work in Spain, and renting rather than buying, but the present course of austerity is on track to affect public services and quality of life in significant ways, especially if no course-correction is made -- and right at the moment, no one course-correction is in sight.

PS, to my fellow European posters,

Please don't read my post as singling out Spain as having problems. I see these problems as EU-wide, and I also see Spain as a country with tremendous resources, both economic and social, to weather a crisis. But a crisis it is, with much working against what might be a positive outcome. I have no intention of living anywhere else but Europe -- in fact, I would enjoy living in Spain, I'm sure, a beautiful country with a marvelous culture. My point is that people concerned about "decline" need to assess what is going on in the European economy if they are considering moving here.

zeppole, thanks for the post, it does point out a crucial factor for any relocation. We are very much aware of Spain's (and overall EU) financial crisis. DH is a financial news junkie.

What I referred to when I wrote about 'Puerto Rico's decline' is directly related to violent crimes as we plummet into narco-state status and the professional class bails out at alarming rates. Matter of fact, PR has been referred to many times in the news as the U.S.'s Greece.

We know that no country will be perfect and will have its share of problems. Also that what is a good fit at the time might turn out not to be so great after 5 years. We'll see how this goes.

You may want to start reading the local papers online. El Mundo, El Pais, Las Provincias, etc. I am unaware of the name for the Malaga paper.

Unhappily, Spain is experiencing the same problems as PR. As Lincasanova said, read those papers online, plus The Olive Press. When one is a tourist, the problems aren't so evident. When one is a resident, it's another story.

Whenever I walk by a real estate office, I look at the listings.

I've gone to Spain every year for the past 5 years or so. The crisis isn't evident as far as real estate prices -- supposedly the real estate boom is one of Spain's problems.

Italy seems to be the same case, though they didn't overbuild like Spain did and their prices are really high in the popular towns.

House prices here have declined in general terms for the last three years.Last year was especially bad. The crisis is not good but most Western economies are not that different.Here the big ptoblem is unemployment. Yes there are crime problems in certain areas but no different from other countries in Europe.
Personally I wouldnt be put off by the crisis OR.....history has shown they are always cyclical.If you have no need to work and live in a normal area life here is good.

Thanks again, I have been reading El Pais for a while (the Iphone app is not bad) but I'll certainly look up the other ones.

DH really liked The Olive Press link, his Spanish is not 100% so he appreciated the English info.

scrb,

Just as an aside, the real estate "market' in Italy is really not akin to any other real estate market I have ever seen, a sort of quirk of Italian history. There was no real estate boom here, or private sector banking-lending crisis akin to Spain or Ireland, although there has been a bank capitalization crisis due to 'contagion' problems around the eurozone, blah blah techo-babble. I think Italy -- and Europe -- has benefitted mightily from having Mario Monti replace Silvio Berlusconi, but everything remains fragile. Marigross has said they don't intend to buy property in Spain but be renters, which will offer a lot protection.

marigross,

Sorry to hear the utterly idiotic war on drugs has made things more difficult in Puerto Rico.

I browsed some online listings in Tuscany. Site was clearly for foreign buyers as all the listings showed how far it was to drive to the nearest airport.

It seemed like the ones closer to the airport were priced higher than a comparable property further away.