London Travel Cards
 

So I am going to be in London for 8 days at the end of April.

My flight gets in at 8:30pm on day 1 and I leave at 3:30pm on day 8 - both from Gatwick.

I am staying with a friend who lives in Zone 5 (West Harrow)

After all of my oyster card research, I want to make sure I am not missing something. What I think is best is to buy a 7 day travel card - starting on day 2 - therefore pay for my journey from the airport on day 1. And I would want to have it for zones 1-5.

Does this make the most sense?

Yep - that is what you want (Oyster doesn't work in from Gatwick anyway since it is outside the tfl territory)

It makes sense IF you plan on using the tube every day to get out to zone 1 <u>during peak hours</u> and/or using the tube multiple times each day. The 7-day travelcard for zones 1-5 is £44, which comes out to a little over £6 per day. The Oyster single fare for travel between zone 1 and zone 5 is £3.70 for peak hours; but just £2.20 during off-peak.

So, if you are just taking the tube once a day into London and back (both journeys during off-peak hours) and/or days you won't be taking the tube at all, you will be better off paying Oyster single fares, ie, Oyster PAYG.

Bear in mind, too, that Oyster PAYG has a daily cap - it won't take more than a certain amount in any one day, however many journeys you make in that day. If you start your journey in zone 5, the maximum is £12.10 (starting before 0930), or £7 if you start after 0930. So, as yk says, it all depends how many days you're likely to want to go into central London, when you're likely to start travelling each day, and how much other use you'll make of the system.

Patrick - do you know what is the PAYG daily cap? We arrive on a Sunday morning, leave the following Friday AM (Heathrow both ways, hotel on Picadilly line) and I am thinking the PAYG is my best bet. Not sure how if I will start before 0930 any given day but probably not, travel likely within Zone 1, maybe occasional 2.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-zones1-6.pdf

Page 7 lists all the prices for Oyster PAYG cap. If you plan on using the tube a lot during your 5 days there, you may find it a better deal to load a 7-day travelcard (zone 1-2) onto the Oyster instead. There is no peak/off-peak restriction for the 7-day travelcard. Page 9 lists the cost of the 7-day travelcards.

I think yk and I once figured out that a 7-day travel card (paper if you want the 2for1 offers, loaded on an Oyster card if not) makes sense if you will be in London <b>more than four</b> days <b>AND</b> will use the the tube/buses a lot while you are there. If you won't use the tube/buses a lot (more than the daily Oyster cap), just get an Oyster PAYG (if you'll be under the daily cap every day).

Also, look at simply loading a Weekly Bus Pass on your Oyster along with some cash for PAYG fares from/to LHR. Buses have no zone or peak restrictions.

There are many reasons to use buses in lieu of the Tube. The only real downside is that the traffic on some streets makes walking faster. The rush hour crowding isn't worse than the Tube.

Robes - While in Paris I have come to enjoy using the bus system, traffic in London is such that the only time I ride a bus is if there is absolutely no need to reach my destination on the same day. ;-)

sf7307 - yep, that factoring sounds about right.

Thanks to all!

<i>traffic in London is such that the only time I ride a bus is if there is absolutely no need to reach my destination on the same day.</i>

:-)

Hi all,
My wife and I will visit London in May. Our flight from Bangkok will arrive Gatwick at 7 am. We think will take Gatwick Express to get to Victoria, though it's expensive. However, we also consider taking normal train (Southern), since it's quite cheaper.

I just wonder if the Souther train normally get packed jam during that time? (say about 8-8.30 am). We will bring 1 large backpack and 1 large baggage with us :-(

One more Q.: if I buy 1-day paper travelcard (z.1-2)from train station (for 2-for-1 reason), but I'll go to some place in Z.3 on that day, how can I pay the correct fee? Show the ticket desk our 1-day travelcard and pay the difference?

Sorry for some stupid questions, but it's our first time in UK, so we have to find out a lot of things :-)

...there is no provision for exgtension fares with any of the paper travelcards...the way the fare is structured you would have to buy a cash ticket for a zone 2 to zone 3 trip in and zone 3 to zone 2 trip back...£4 each way ouch ouch ouch...

Of course the solution is that you buy a zone 1-4 one day travelcard!

<<< there is no provision for exgtension fares with any of the paper travelcards >>>

Eh?

If you hold a zone 1 & 2 paper travelcard and have to go to zone 3, you would need a cash fare to go from zone 2 to zone 3 which is £3.20 each way..or a total of £6.40 to "escape" back to zone 2.......

Now if you have a 7 day travelcard on oyster, the extension would come out of the PAYG component of the oyster card; bear in mind every oyster card can have loaded it at the same time a 7 day travelcard and money for PAYG. So if you have your 7 day card on oyster, the trip from zone 2 to zon3 3 would be £1.10 each way, quite a difference.

There would be little sense in buying a zone 1 & 2 paper travelcard if you intend to travel into zone 3 on a given day as you would have to pay the additional £3.20 cash fare each way.

In this case, if I read it right, the poster would not want to buy a zone 1 & 2 paper 1 day travelcard plus the extension (which runs £5.70 but rather a zone 1 - 4 paper travelcard which is £6.30 (assuming the first trip is after 0930 on a weekday or all weekend)....(bearing in mind there are no 1 day travelcards on oyster, it would be PAYG with a cap. Incidentally, the cap on oyster if there is one trip into zone 3 would be £5.80 again if the first trip is after 0930 on a weekday.

So again, perhaps I stand corrected, it is possible to get an extension ticket with a one day travelcard (or with a 7 day paper travelcard)but the fare structure, convoluted as it is, makes it very expensive (if my reading of the brochure is correct). You can correct me if you see that I'm wrong..I'm just reading the brochure. I've had no recent experience with this.

Sharmon12- You asked what kind of camera I used on our trip to the UK last year - 2008. It was a Cannon 400D and this year we are taking a Cannon 50D.

Thanks a lot! So it'd be better to visit sights in zone 3 in 1 single day and buy 1-day zone 1-3 travel card for that day :-)
How about Southern train from Gatwick during peak hour? Hard for 2 people with 1 large backpack and 1 large baggage? Thanks again in advance.

By 8:30, the trains will have cleared out considerably, although it still might be tight. But here's an idea:

Wait until 10:00 so you can use a Southern Railway DaySave pass that costs &pound;10 p/p and is good all over the network for a day. A group pass will cover four adults for &pound;20.

Robespierre, thank you very much for your info. Don't know if my wife will wait till 10 am or not!!??

Just a quick note but no big deal; there is no one day zone 1-3 travelcard, there's a zone 1-4 travelcard which isn't very much more expensive than a zone 1-2.....

Ok thanks a lot.

Tell me more about the 'two for one' deals, please.

Am I correct in readng that the cash fares are way more expensive than loading credit on an Oyster?!? Why would anyone pay cash? Boy that brochure is convoluted!

(What is a 'paper' travelcard.....)

xyz123, I think I see a one day Zone 1-3 (all zones 1-x) on page 7?

Can you tell I'm on a learning curve?!?

<u>Feldie</u> - the Page 7 price you saw on the PDF file is the Oyster PAYG daily fare cap for various zones. It IS NOT the fare for a one-day paper travelcard. If you look here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...kets/2911.aspx
There is NO zone 1-3 travelcard.

A paper travelcard means it comes in a paper form, ie a paper ticket. The other way you can have a travelcard is have it loaded electronically onto an Oyster card.

For 2-for-1 deals, go to www.daysoutguide.co.uk

Am I correct in readng that the cash fares are way more expensive than loading credit on an Oyster?!? Why would anyone pay cash?

Yes, the cash fare is something like 4&pound; per segment, whereas the Oyster PAYG fare for the same trip is something like 1.50&pound;

As for why anyone would pay cash, who knows? But the powers that be are definitely trying to encourage use of the Oyster card by making the Oyster fare much discounted.

OMG. Thank you. I give up. I'm just going to buy a 7 day Zone 1-2 oyster pass.

Don't answer this, but why would anyone want to buy a paper card instead of an Oyster for flexibility.

Again, just to clarify.

You can load a 7 day travelcard on oyster...same price as a paper one (zone 1 & 2 £25.20 I believe...no difference in their basic operation as long as you remain in zones 1 & 2...but with oyster you can pay the oyster fares out of the PAYG port of the card (every oyster card can have loaded onto it PAYG funds) while with a paper card, every time you venture out of zone 1 & 2, you have to purchase a cash "extension" ticket at the exhorbitant cash prices. Ouch. So in this case at hand, the the poster was using a 7 day zone 1 & 2 travelcard on paper and wish to go into zone 3, he or she would have to purchase a single zone not including zone 1 cash fare which according to the brochure is £3.20 (multiplied by 2 for the fare in and then the fare out of zone 3)...ouch whereas with oyster, it would be I believe £1.20 out of PAYG eacy way...quite a savings. Also there is a 7 day zone 1-3 7 day travelcard available for both paper and oyster at the same price...

Now, and this is inmportant, understand there is no such thing as a one day travelcard on oyster. Oyster operates on a cash basis if you don't have a 7 day travelcard loaded onto it...so each time you use the tube while in zone 1, it knocks £1.60 from your PAYG account on the oyster card. What the oyster card does do, and this is where its flexibility is great, is that it caps at a price 50p less than the comparable one day card. So in the example cited here, if the person had an oyster PAYG card and made that infamous 1 trip into zone 3, no problem, for the two trips (in and out) of zone 3 (a trip from zone 1 to zone 3 or vice versa), it would deduct whatever the oyster fare is for this trip (and there are peak fares and non peak fares with peak fares on oyster being those from 0630 to0930 and 1600 to 1900 weekdays, all other fares would be non peak) but it would cap for the day at a price 50p than the comparable one day travelcard...there is no zone 1-3 paper travelcard listed so the cap would be 50p less than the price of a one day paper zone 1 - 4 which is listed I believe at £6.30 so the cap for that day would be £5.80. The big advantage over buying a paper one day card is you don't have to make any decisions each day, the cap is automatically applied depending on what combination of tube and bus you use. The only small thing to remember is there are two kinds of paper one day cards issued, one for peak use which means the first trip is before 0930 on a weekday only and non peak which is all over hours (dobn't confuse this, as some day with peak and non peak on oyster PAYG fares)....so on the day the OP is travelling into zone 3, he or she would have to remember for that day to purchase the zone 1-4 travelcard for use on that day...with the oyster card just load 20 quid or something like that on the card and touch in and touch out to your heart's content on a given day and at the end of the day the great tfl computer in the sky will compute the best value for that day...

The capping process and flexibility of oyster makes it a far far better day for travel than paper. However, there are two things that make this complicated for a tourist. One is the 2 for 1 business we discuss here constantly. Oyster no good for the 2 for 1's. Paper travelcards issued by one of the national rail lines only. OUCH....the other is that if you're traveling, I'll use this example, to Hampton Court which theoretically is in zone 5 I believe or mayber zone 6, still within the tfl (transport for London) zone system, there is no tube that runs nearby. You have to use one of the national rail lines. And not all national rail lines accept oyster while they do accept paper one day and seven day ttravelcards. DOUBLE ouch although you can take buses out there and use your oyster card.

And as our good friend Robespierre never tires of pointing out, the buses can be great. And if on a day, you are using oyster and only use buses, while it's £1 a pop for a bus fare on oyster (you ohly touch in on a bus not in and out), the cap is £3.30 for the day (no peak or non peak to worry about) and also no need at the start of the day to decide well today I'm only using the buses so I'll purchase a one day bus ticket for £3.80...what if in the course of that day, for example, you change your mind and want to use the tube to get back to your hotel. With a paper bus ticket, you're out of luck. Cash fare only for that tube trip (which is £4 peak or non peak in zone 1 or zone 1 & 2)...triple ouch while if you're using oyster PAYG, the computer simply refigures your cap for that day from the £3.30 one day bus cap to the £4.60 zone 1 & 2 cap (provided you made your first trip after 0930 on a weekday)..it's all transparent and you need not do anything, just touch in and touch out on the tube. Every couple of days, on the machines in the tube, you can check your PAYG balance.

Now I know, I've probablyconfused many even more but the bottom line is that if you're a tourist visiting central London, those 2 for 1's better be real good to make one day paper travelcards better than using oyster PAYG.

The other question here is how many days make it more economical to load a 7 day travelcard onto oyster as opposed to using Oyster PAYG...when everything was paper, I used 5 days as the criteria (and better in fact when everything was paper there was a zone 1 seven day paper travelcard much cheaper than zone 1 & 2 and if venturing into zone 2 (Greenwich or the zon) I could purchase extension paper tickets at a reasonable price but all that is ancient history). In any event, the break even is probably still 5 days but there may be days you take a day trip somewhere and only make one round trip (return) to catch your train or tour bus or whatever...so on those days, with oyste PAYG your damage for the day would be £3.20 and the other three days you hit the cap.....which is £4.70 well let's see, £4.70 for three days is £14.10 plus the two days you spent £6.40 which would come out to what, £20.50 much better than the 7 day travelcard. Now you can argue well I just to do one thing and be done with it and I don't mind the extra 5 quid. You would probably be right...and what if one of those days you only use buses? The permutations are almost (but not quite) infinite of what's best to do with 5 days at your disposal...on a first trip to London I wouldn't worry too much about it but for London veterans such as myself (and being cheap and frugal also) sometimes there is a decision to be made. It's isn't all black or white but varying shades of grey.

Now I bet you're head is spinning and you're really confused. Thank you tfl for making it so complicated (and we havent' even touched what happens with under 16's!)

<<< the bottom line is that if you're a tourist visiting central London, those 2 for 1's better be real good to make one day paper travelcards >>>

They are extremely good - as it says they are two for the price of one for places like The Tower of London (£17) so in one go you've more or less saved the cost of 2 one day tickets

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTop...n_England.html

<<< Tell me more about the 'two for one' deals, please. >>>

You need to buy a paper travelcard at a train station in London - NOTE the TRAIN STATION not the TUBE STATION

For an average tourist doing average touristy things they are a great bargain. The only problem is that you can't buy them at Heathrow so you need to pay £4 for the Tube in order to get to a train station

See www.daysoutguide.com

mark.

Thanks everyone for all the great information.

Bookmarked for further digestion! Thanks!

Bookmarking. Thanks!

Aside from marking me as a visitor (like my backpack won't do that for me), is there any drawback, or major difference for the user, to the Oyster Visitor Card versus the regular Oyster PAYG? We are taking the Eurostar from Paris to London and the OV is available for purchase on board at regular £12 rate (10 preload + 2 fee).

Am I correct in understanding the OV (and regular Oyster) is a card that I can keep in my wallet and not have to take out to tap in/out?

On our last trip, we used paper travelcards, but I do not recall the OV option (NOV 07).

For the regular Oyster, you pay a £3 deposit when you get the card. However, you get it back when you turn in the card at the end of your visit. For the Oyster Visitors card, the £2 fee is non-refundable. So why pay an extra 2 pounds unless you don't want to buy the regular oyster in line?

yk - thanks for the info.

What IS the Oyster Visitors Card (and how does it differ from the Oyster PAYG card, other than the non-refundability of the initial fee)?

Visitor cards are PAYG only - no Travelcards can be loaded on them.

There is no major difference. It comes in just one price - 12 pounds, but you only get 10 pounds of actual value. You can top it off as you go. I believe one can order the Oyster visitor in advance, so I guess it works well for those tourists who want to pre-book and pre-purchase everything in advance and have tickets in hand before their trip (and of course, pre-purchase Euros at their local bank at home).

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...kets/5185.aspx

And a royal pain if you have put too much money on the card and want to get it back:

<i>If you require a refund for any unused credit and the remaining balance is under £5, you can cancel the card and get a refund at any Tube station ticket office. <u>If the balance is more than £5, you will need to complete a refund form</u> (available from Tube station ticket offices). The card will be cancelled and you will be <u>sent a refund by cheque</u>. Alternatively, you can send your card to Oyster Ticketing and Refunds, 55 Broadway, London, SW1H 0BD, UK. Please note that cheques will be issued in Sterling and you will be responsible for paying any exchange rate fees/</i>

<I>
queen1730 on Apr 8, 09 at 01:57 PM

Am I correct in understanding the OV (and regular Oyster) is a card that I can keep in my wallet and not have to take out to tap in/out?</i>

You have to get it close enough to the readers to be scanned. This may or may not mean that you have to remove it from your wallet. I keep mine in a front pants pocket, so I can just sidle up to the turnstile readers on the tube. But to scan it on a bus, I have to take it out.

Thanks Robespierre - I was hoping that would be the case.

yk - Yes, quite a pain that would be! I think the regular Oyster will be the way to go for us. I think we can handle waiting until we get there to buy our cards (we did last time, and we are still alive!) :) Plus, I hate paying extra for "handling" and shipping fees, when I can walk-up and spend less, in this case, the £3 (x2) I get back. My general rule for advanced purchase is that unless I can print a paper ticket at home or swipe my card to collect upon arrival (granted my card is accepted) - for no extra charge - I wait until I get there.

The Fat Tyre 4 hour bike tour 2 for 1 offer would save £20 adult, and looks prety fun.

Alrighty now, my head is spinning. If anyone will be so kind as to read this and respond, I will be very grateful.

We arrive in London at St Pancras on Saturday, late afternoon or early evening. We are staying in the City at Apex City of London.

We depart on Thursday, certainly not before noon. So that is 4 entire days and nights, plus an evening and a morning.

A 7 day travelcard loaded on a Oyster? Or PAYG? We are planning one trip out of town, and one to Kew and Richmond.

Any suggestions, please?

Factoring in the Kew and other trips, you'll be in town <U>two</u> entire days and nights. PAYG makes the most sense.

The "four-day breakeven" for Travelcards is predicated on four full days running all over town.