London Terror. Not if when!
 

As a Londoner over the last few days we have been told in no uncertain terms that London will be the victim of a terrorist attack and there is only so much that can be done to prevent it. Security on the tube and railway has been further hightened and yesterday I certainly picked up a vibe of apprenhension as I traveled across town.

Whilst I agree with the opinion that we must not let the terrorists win, I can't help but wonder whether many will be put off visiting London.

Our security forces are already claimimg to have thwarted some attempts - but there is a sense of resignation - 'where there is a will there is a way!'

Have any Fodorites been put off traveling to London? How is London being presented in other countries? Safe or not?

Would be interested in your thoughts.

bbib

We'll be in your wonderful city in late April. Nothing has changed for us.

My brother died, years ago, from injuries sustained in a road accident here in my own country. Sadly, he is just as dead as if he were killed by a terrorist, so for that matter are my friends who died of cancer. The only difference is that as a cause of death, terrorism 'advertises' itself better.

I don't want to die of cancer or head injuries any more than I want to get blown up by a bomb, but if I think too much about stuff over which I have no control, I'm gonna never get out of bed in the morning, let alone go to London.

London has been a victim of terrorism many many times over the past thirty years as a result of the IRA, and before that, the blitz bombings during the Second World War that killed thousands of innocent citizens.

I think we know what we're dealing with. The Brits will put the usual stiff upper lip into play, the blitz spirit will prevail, and life will go on as normal, regardless of the terrorists. Normal service is resumed.

Hi bb,

How does the current terrorist threat compare to the days when the IRA was planting bombs in London?

The biggest difference is that the IRA used to give us a warning from time to time. But sometimes they didn't even manage to do that. So it's the same really.

What was the effect on tourism of the IRA terrorism?

No real effect. Millions of people still flocked to London to see the Changing of the Guard.

It's interesting to see people's reaction to the tragedy in Madrid. Ever since 9/11, surely everyone has now realised that nowhere is ever going to be safe, and more importantly, nowhere ever WAS. The 'war' on terrorism seems very selective, some cynics say based on oil, who knows, but with other parts of the world announcing their intention to build nuclear warheads, all the 9/11s and 3/11s you could dream up will just amount to noise when the tactical warheads land.

I lived in London in the early 90s, with a real threat of terrorist bombs. We were never directly affected, other than minor inconviences. Off course, this was during the time when terrorists could find refuge in the US, where celebrities would organize petitions to stop them being extradited to the UK. I remember the then mayor of NY renaming a square after a suspected terrorist who was being held there.
Anyway, different terrorist nowadays, and I am still going to London later this week, where no doubt everyone will be on the alert again for suspect packages.

>... when the tactical warheads land<

I am afraid that, unfortunately, they will be carried in suitcases or concealed in crates of stuffed toys.

Too true.

I'm coming to London to visit an old friend next week (one who actually lived through the blitz as a child). I live in New York City, so I don't think it matters whether I ride the subway here, or the tube there.
I am not at all put off from coming to London by terrorist threats! I can't wait to visit one of my favorite cities again! bbib, see you there!

London's not in my plans in the near future, but if it was I wouldn't give the possibility of terrorism a second thought. Thousands more people die in their bathtubs each year than will ever be injured by terrorists.

Most people would be better off worrying about something that has a statistically greater chance of killing them - like choking on fish bone, being caught up in a tornado, or perhaps getting hit by a meteorite.

We will be visiting London next week. We've been, sadly reminded lately of 'their' persistence in terrorizing and obliterating us. We were also there when there was a threat ( by IRA) to Victoria Station. But I have children living in Chicago, Oak Ridge TN., and in London and worry about the safety of them all. We aren't safe...but will keep on keepin' on.

The terrorist threat today is from Al-Quaeda not the IRA. Terrorism anywhere, anytime is dreadful and cowardly. It is, however, a grim reality.

For European nations that are cringing before it to whom will they surrender? There is no Hitler to fawn before. Today what shadow or spook do they present their sword to in surrender?

I ride a subway every day in New York City. I work in the financial district. Both are prime targets of the Islamic fanatics. My daughter barely escaped from the WTC 9/11 horror.

To me there are two choices before us: Root out and exterminate the terrorists or act like France and Germany and try to ride the tiger's back.

One postscript to bbib's respondents. There was 300 years of terrorism in Ireland perpetrated by the English monarchy, the same corrupt gang that you read about in your daily papers. All terrorism is awful whether perpetrated by today's IRA or when Winston Churchill sent the Black & Tans to Ireland.

Hi ira

Gauging from fellow Londoners, I think people are a bit more nervous about an attack from al-qaeda than they used to be from the IRA - maybe because of the sheer scale of al-qaeda's attacks and the suicide nature of incidents.

With the threat of IRA bombimgs people were vigalent but the scale of attacks were smaller (exception being canary Wharf). I think people feel there is a greater chance of themselves or a loved one being caught up in an al-qaeda attack and it seems ineviable to happen. Its like a waiting game.

We had just moved to London in 1982 when the infamous Hyde Park bomb was set off by the IRA. I remember the city was extremely upset because a number of the Royal Horseguard horses had been killed or injured. It was unnerving to see all the signs everywhere about unattended packages, but you got use to it.

We will be in London in May. Hopefully, everything will be fine, but no terrorist threats will make me stop traveling.

Since today is the day we celebrate the greatest British Isles anti-terrorist of them all -- St. Patrick (well he did get rid of those terrorizing snakes!), I think this is a good time to reaffirm my attitude that I won't let terrorists win.

I am sometimes amazed at the silly presumably young people we get on this forum. For goodness sake, read your history books with special reference to the Red Brigades, the Baader Meinhof gang, Algeria, ETA, the IRA etc.
Europe has been suffering from terrorism for decades and has done precious little cringing. In fact some of the terrorists were actually funded by Americans.
I sometimes get the impression from across the Atlantic that terrorists are people who attack Americans.
You can't have a "war against terrorism", you use intelligence in both senses to track them down and submit them to due process of law.

Exactly.

To answer your question as to how "London is being presented in other countries"....that I know of nobody, especially travel agents, is "presenting" the city as some sort of ground zero of terrorism with an attack just waiting to happen. And, frankly, I'd like to know where this information about "not if, but when" is coming from. If it is from some sort of "official" source is certainly isn't "news" to you, is it? You could say this about almost any city and if you WAIT LONG ENOUGH I suppose it will come true.
I suspect, if anything, the prices of some hotels in London and the not absolutely fabulous currency exchange rate thanks to our own government's pursuit of a "weak dollar" policy will do more to "put off" travel than some vague terrorism threat.

With all due respect, Sylvia - Your point is, Im sure - not lost on the [presumably] younger people who post here (I'm guessing you mean anywhere under 50?)...

But, you cannot deny that the scale of terrorism has increased exponentially since the days we all studied in those history books. While it's been around a long long time, it's never been so completely invasive to the way of life on a Global scale as it is today. Terrorism has evolved, like most other things do. History might well remind us of ever-present conflicts, but the reality is, these are NOT your father's bombs and gunmen.

JonJon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3515312.stm

Well said, Sylvia! I'm with you.

It's curious that those who attack France and Germany don't understand that they are aiding the terrorists - one of whose aims is to split the Western World and to create schisms.

Americans tend to think that terrorism means only New York City and that only Americans fight terrorism. Americans think that fighting terrorism should be led by Americans - "You're either with us or against us".

Terrorism is a bit more complex than that.

One of the worst terrorist attacks in the US was Oklahoma City, a purely domestic American occurrence.

It's going to take all of us in the whole wide world, working together, to combat terrorism. Let's not fall into the terrorists' plans and start attacking one another. Let's join together and fight terrorism together.

It's sort of like Megan's Law. The moment you know there is a child abduction, you broadcast far and wide. Does it matter who actually responds? Of course not! If Average Joe spots the abductor's car, he calls it in.

In the same way, we should be more democratic about who's going to respond to the terrorist attacks and who's going to lead and who's going to follow. It is going to take ALL OF US to defeat terrorism. And, you know what? The non-terrorists in the world FAR outnumber the terrorists. If we work together, we can do it.

My husband and I are travelling to London next Wednesday. I refuse to live in fear - a terrorist attack can take place any time and in any place.

We just returned last night from London, and to be honest with you, we were more concerned about making sure we got on the right tube line rather than worrying about terrorism.
JoeG

I get SOOO tired of people accusing France and Germany of cowering. Perhaps they understand that you aren't going to end terrorism by annihilating countries where terrorists have set up shop. Newsflash: They'll move somewhere else.
Perhaps they understand that you've got to look at the things that lead people to join terrorist organizations.

Thanks bbib

I am inclined to disagree with easytraveler's sweeping generalizatons of what "Americans tend to think".

That's an incredibly naive (and dare I say media-inspired?) read on what Americans, as a whole, think terrorism means. In fact, MANY Americans are well-aware that our country's involvement in facing, dealing with & combatting terrorism was long overdue. We got away with years of enjoying our innocence, and you'd be hard pressed to find an educated person who won't admit that. I recently moved from the East Coast to the MidWest, and was somewhat relieved to learn that people here are as enlightened (if not moreso in fact) than people on the East Coast with respect to a reality-check on America's role in the Global efforts at battling terrorism and striving to prevent or aid political conflict. I see less & less of this narcissism that you seem to feel is so prevalent among U.S. citizens. I also see more empathy towards alternatives to military action, and I'm living in the middle of where most of those soldiers in Iraq actually hale from.

No one in the country has forgotten Oklahoma City, and no one is unaware that enemies are within our midst, and sometimes born & raised American...and every bit as dangerous as those overseas.

I don;t personally feel that Germany or France have "cowered" - but likewise, I have to ask: Am I the only person sick and tired of the "Americans care only about themselves and want to rule the entire world" theorem? I think BOTH positions are overused, and have proven incosistent with the truth.

Young to me is under 60 ;-)

So, Katietwin, what is the "truth"? Since I tend to generalize and you do not, tell us - what is the "truth"? I await your in-depth analysis of the "truth".

Katietwin, I have many American friends and they tend to think like you.

However, I must refer you to http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Project for the New American Century.
There are certainly some Americans who want to rule the whole world.

I won't let the terrorists win and I won't change my travel plans. My mother and I leave for the UK next week and we'll be in London part of the time, and we will ride the trains, buses and tube without hesitation. If our destination was Spain rather than Britain we'd still go. The tragic terror events of the past few years - not only 9/11 and 3/11 but Oklahoma City, Columbine and what just happend in Fresno, CA have shown that it could potentially be just as dangerous - or safe - to stay at home so there's no point in canceling travel plans. My mom and her cousin went to the UK three weeks after 9/11 and while the cousin was nervous - she'd nver traveled abroad before - Mom never for a moment considered canceling or changing their plans. On the other hand, my sister-in-law canceled a planned trip to Ireland after 9/11 and that made me real sad and a bit angry - what a waste.

The truth is there are close to 300 MILLION Americans (compared to 60 million in the U.K. and France, 80 million in Germany) and any generalization (such as the mentioned "Americans care only about themselves and want to rule the entire world") is ridiculous. There are far too many varying opinions in a country of our size to paint us all with the same brush.
Another thing...not to downplay other acts of terrorism....Oklahoma for example....but 9/11 murdered over 2000 Americans in ONE MORNING. If this happened in another country such as Germany, who is to say what steps Germany would have taken. They might have done exactly what the United States has done. Our governments justification for invading countries that knowingly harbor terrorists= thousands of dead Americans in one morning and the unwillingness to do nothing to protect ourselves. Ruling the world is not the goal.

Quote from above post:"Our governments justification for invading countries that knowingly harbor terrorists= thousands of dead Americans in one morning and the unwillingness to do nothing to protect ourselves"

I must have missed something--when did we invade Saudi Arabia?

I hate not to generalize :D

but has anyone noticed or has anyone written on the significant link between the two dates?

9-11 is the emergency number

3-11 is the non-emergency number

(At least, 3-11 is the non-emergency number where I live)

Well, I would say a lot of Americans are afraid to visit London this year, but the fear has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with the falling Dollar. London incidental prices are high by US standards to start with, with today's exchange rate they are double that again.

I'm actually considering abandoning a planned trip and losing $1800 in paid airfares, because the other costs are climbing so quickly that the cost of the trip is more than double what I had planned when I purchased the tickets 8 months ago.

Thank you Katietwin for those much-needed observations. How facile that certain posters are privy to what "Americans" think. And how ironic that this notion of an entire people in lockstep with its government is precisely al-Qaeda's rationale for wholesale slaughter, be it New York or Madrid: Babies, foreigners, fellow Muslims - all equally guilty as conspirators of the infidel. I'm constantly being told that unlike Americans, Europeans don't confuse a nation's government with its people. I'm not convinced.

And for those posters advising us to look to the roots of terrorism for a solution, let me share with you some of the stated, published and non-negotiable objectives of al Qaeda: The destruction of the United States; The complete destruction of Israel; Muslim rule of law in every country throughout the world. So now, what's the solution?

We'll we will be spending 4 days in London in early April, which will be after spending 4 days in Madrid and we live in NYC. The reality of it all is, I am no safer at home than in London or Madrid, so I might as well relax and enjoy.

It hasn't changed my plans at all, but sure makes my 87 year old mother worry about me.

Keith

Living just half a mile from Washington D.C., my family and I have gotten used to the constant threat of terrorism, so London scares us not at all. It never crossed our minds after 3/11 to cancel our plans. We leave for London in two weeks and can hardly wait. Yes, we'll be availing ourselves of the wonderful public transport system. Life is for living to the fullest, come what may.