London Residential Neighborhoods
 

Not your typical travel question, but I'm thinking of making the transition from London tourist to London resident. While familiar with central London, I'm not familiar with the surrounding neighborhoods.

Any comments about neighborhoods (especially in Zone 2 or 3) and cost of living would be appreciated. I'm single, 30s, professional, etc.

We did a 3-week home exchange and lived in a townhouse in Finchley (Zone 4); we thought it was just charming. Nice architecture and parks, its own pleasant shopping area, etc. Since London is so expensive, your geographic choices might be determined largely by your budget.

Hi asalamy - this is a really tricky question to answer as anonymous is right - it's probably easier to set the budget and look at the areas that are feasible, rather than round the other way. Are you looking at renting - a room, a flat, a house? would you like outdoor space, are you happy to share?

Do you know where you will be working as if journey time is important you may be driven by tube stations or bus routes. Are you interested in night life and where do you want to be at weekends? If you want to use London as a base to travel, proximity to transport to airports or a particular mainline station might be a consideration.

The biggest outlay is probably going to be accomodation. There are many estate agents on the net now so if you know your housing budget you can check out what you would get in different areas?

As you can imagine, there' s literally dozens of choices in zones 2/3 (good choice on zone by the way). I'll try and give you a quick run down on the most popular choices.

First, are you a north or south of the river girl? The choice of your first home in London will pretty much decide which camp you fall into. There is fierce debate between north and south as to which is better. I'm a north of the river girl, so I'll try not to be biased.

Basically, North is generally seen as being more urban (so in parts, more scruffy), better transport links into the centre, easier and cheaper to get a cab home at night, posh neighbourhoods live shoulder to shoulder with poorer.

South is more surburban, pretty tree lined streets of victorian houses, quite middle-class, less transport options.

Going in a clockwise direction...

North: all have multiple transport options.
Camden: very urban, young. Personally I hate it - crowds of 'alternative' youths crowd the streets at the weekend, full on nightlife every night. Punks (can you believe they still exist?). Lot of druggies. Edgy, but I think it tips into feeling unsafe.

Islington/Highbury: Great choice. More bars and restaurants on Upper Street than you've ever seen in your life. Popular with 20s/30s professionals who like to party. Good transport links into the City, so if you work in law or finance, it's very convenient.

North East
Shoreditch/Hoxton/Camberwell: very urban, very popular with web designers and artists. Scruffy cool. Loft conversions. Damien Hurst started here. Not big on local amenities, unless you like to eat out every night in uber hip places.

Hackney/Bow: Like Shoreditch, but more scruffy. Lots of development going on, but still lots of inner city youths hanging around on street corners. Wouldn't like to walk home in the dark.

South of the river:
South/South East:
Greenwich: very nice, bit touristy, bit far out, limited transport options

Clapham: vastly popular with 20/early 30 something young profs who work in PR. Great bar/restaurant scene. Reasonable transport links.

Battersea: nice parkland, slightly older than Clapham (probably mid 30s, some starting families).

South West:
Putney/Barnes: on the river, very middle class, perhaps a little old for you. One of my late 20-something colleagues lived here and felt like he'd moved into a retirement home. He's now moved to Clapham and is much happier. Perhaps a little quiet for you. More limited transport options.

Richmond: not really London (it's Surrey). On the river, very pretty and very expensive. Bit old, and remote, for you I think. I would like to move there when I'm a grown up, and have won the lottery.

Back north of the river:
West:
Earls Court/Hammersmith/Shepherds Bush: very popular with Aussies and Kiwis for some reason. I think it lacks a bit of soul/community, but that's just my opinion. Popular with TV workers, as the BBC is the biggest local employer.

Ealing/Acton: Ealing is next to, but posher than, Acton. A bit surburban. Doesn't really feel like London. I know, I used to live there.

Chelsea: young and posh (and v. expensive). Aspiring models from wealthy families. Think Paris Hilton. Nobody normal lives here.

Kensington: like Chelsea, but perhaps a little less achingly pretentious. Very nice, lots of rich diplomats and US expats. V. expensive. Sort of place Chelsea Clinton would live.

Notting Hill: If Camden was ever cleaned up it would be like this. Used to be really rough, now very posh in parts, but still has an urban/cool edge. Not cheap. Would suit your age range.

North West:

Queens Park/Kilburn: my neck of the woods. Queens Park on the up, competing with West Hampstead (see below), lots of delis (always a good sign). Popular with workers from the BBC, as it's not far away. Kilburn feels quite urban, getting more popular as West Hamsptead gets more expensive, but still has a rough edge. Leafy avenues, but avoid Kilburn High Road at all costs.

West Hampstead/Maida Vale: The Clapham of North London. Great cafe lifestyle, popular with 20/30 something professionals doing well. Maida Vale v. expensive. Large jewish population. I go out here a lot, as the nicest place near where I live.

Hampstead/Highgate: blindingly expensive. Feels like a village (it was once). Vast US expat community (middle-aged and families). Would suit you if you were a 50 something novelist.

Finsbury Park/Belsize Park: The heartland of film stars and pop idols. Live here if you want to bump into Jude Law in the pub, or see Gwyneth Paltrow taking her baby for a walk. Live here if you can afford it! Very very nice place. White washed stucco houses on treelined streets. Next door to Camden, but MUCH nicer.

St John's Wood: very wealthy and middle aged. Popular with diplomats. Not for you, I think.


Everyone else can now chime in with all the places I missed. I shall pre-empt mkingdom's suggestion by saying don't even consider Mayfair - it's just hotels and embassies, and only lived in by rich old ladies carrying small poodles.

I also think you should go onto amazon.co.uk, where you'll find a number of books about living in London. These will also give you good area guides.

What's your profession? Might be able to give you an idea of what you should expect to earn/spend.

This link may help:

http://www.livinginlondon.net/

"We did a 3-week home exchange and lived in a townhouse in Finchley (Zone 4); we thought it was just charming. Nice architecture and parks, its own pleasant shopping area, etc."

It's the most depressing place in the world, I go there occasionally for an excellent Indian (very basic, but good food), but I couldn't even contemplate living there.

Saying no one normal lives in Chelsea is utter rubbish. Also, Hampstead has lots of council housing courtesy of the last Labour governement, so not every property is expensive.

If you don't have children, then I don't get why you'd want a house with a garden in a suburb, it's a waste of time. You'd be far better off getting a small place in the centre, you'll save a fortune on transport costs, and be able to stay out late, and not have to think about how to get home.

Finsbury Park & Belsize Park are worlds apart. I think there's been a typo here!! The comments that Kate has made are relevant for Belsize Park but definitely not Finsbury Park!

My sister is moving to London in September. She decided she wanted to stay in zone 1 for transport cost and being able to get home at night. But mind you: living in London is SO expensive. She found a flat share, just north of Warren Street tube and 5 minutes walk to her uni, it'll cost her around £100 per week for a relatively small bedroom.

Any Londoners have any comments on the zone where she'll be staying? We think it's quite ok, but aren't 100% sure.

"Finsbury Park & Belsize Park are worlds apart. I think there's been a typo here!! The comments that Kate has made are relevant for Belsize Park but definitely not Finsbury Park!"

Ooops Charley, you're right, I was having a brainwash. I meant Primrose Hill. Sound similar, right? Okay okay...

Stardust, Warren Street is fine. Very central. Lots of students around there. She'll like it. That price is pretty typical for a room in a shared house in London. She could probably have got a bigger place if she'd ventured out of Zone 1, but I'm sure she'll enjoy the location.

"North of Warren St" is a bit vague and possibly she's in for a suprise.

Warren St itself is in the area sometimes called Fitzrovia (or more cringeworthy still) NoHo.

It has a very large student population (UCL is there) and is handy for bars restaurants etc and yhe very centre of town is 10-15 minutes walk away.

However I'm a bit worried about the "north" bit. The other side of Euston Rd is none to clever, as it becomes on one side of the Hampstead Rd the Regents Park Estate - a large council estate with the associated problems of such estates, and on the other side Drummond St which is a largely asian area with serious drug and gang problems.

And to take up something that MKingdom said. Yes Hampsted has a fair bit of Council Housing (although most of it has gone under Right To Buy), but you won't be able to get hold of it. It is next to impossible to get a council flat anywhere in London unless you are homeless with children or have something serious wrong with you medically or socially.

It is also a SERIOUSLY bad idea to sublet a council flat as you have absolutely no rights.

David - ex Camden Council Housing Dept (and quondam officer for Hampstead among other things)

Good point about Warren Street David. Stardust - do you have the street name she'll be leaving on? We can check it out for you.

Kate, thanks for the confirmation. Well, we figured that if she can walk to uni, she doesn't need a tube pass and that will save a lot of money!
Plus, most of the intercollegiate halls where quite some of her fellow postgrad students will be staying, are located between Warren Street and Russell Square, so she can walk there as well!

Just one question: is it normal for landlords to be so suspicious about tenants and payments and all? We have to provide a UK bank guarantee and a reference from her previous landlady and a school enrollment and everything! Never had to do this kind of stuff in Belgium, but then again, I can imagine that when the whole world is arriving in London and looking for a room, they have no guarantees whatsoever that they can trust this innocent Belgian postgrad student :-)

Ok, you wrote this down while I was writing my reply.

It's William Road 12. There are 2 UCL med students in the flat, the flat is owned/rented by the father of one of them.

Thanks!

It's just by the Regent's Park Estate. It's a scruffy part of town, but she should be safe enough if she stays off the estate after dark. There really is nothing to take her onto the estate in any case.

It's a schizophrenic part of town too, as on the one hand you have these horrible tower blocks and on the other there are parts of the Crown Estate there (ie VERY nice houses (hises?) owned by the Queen herself.

But she's young and she'll love it I'm sure. Also Camden Town (see above for spot on description) is a short walk away and young people LOVE camden town. I think it's one of the more unpleasant circles of hell.

And yes landlords are like that - especially with students. Have you never seen the Young Ones?

I'm sure that address is fine. She's surrounded by students there.

And you're right about the suspicious landlord. With so many people renting in London from wherever, and with students being notorious for spending what little money they have on beer, it's quite standard to ask for references, deposits and bank standing orders to pay the rent. Can't blame them really.

Thanks for all the replies thus far - very helpful. I would be working in financial services, probably in Canary Wharf. Therefore, Jubilee Line would be the connection I'm looking for.

Based on the descriptions, I think I'm a 'North of the River" gal!

Jubille Line connects with Waterloo. Waterloo connects with SW London (where I live). Bob's your uncle. Sorted. Innit.

North of the river is alright. I've been known to go there much as one would go on safari - it's intesting to observe but one wouldn't want to live there. They do unspeakable things involving wicker men.

Aah well in that case, places so far mentioned along the Jubilee line would be West Hampstead/Kilburn (opposite end of town from Canary Wharf - would take about 45 mins), or you could consider a flat in the Wapping area. This is an area that's been massively regenerated into loft style apartments - it used to be a rundown old docks area. Look out for any area that has 'wharf' or 'docks' on the end of its name.

Remember, it's quite normal to have to change tube lines somewhere along the journey, so don't discount other areas. You'd probably love Islington.

Greenwich is easy from Canary Wharf - you can even get the Thames shuttle boat from here, and miss the tube entirely! Although it is, 'gasp', south of the river!

Thanks - I'm coming from NYC, so used to changing trains. 45 minutes would be an easy commute.

Is it possible to find unfurnished flats in some of the areas you mentioned (Islington, Maida Vail, etc.), or is the rental market mostly furnished?

The north/south divide does get taken to extremes. I work with a genuine Londoner (there aren't many about) who was complaining about someone the other day, dismissing them as a 'Southerner', a phrase normally reserved for people living in the south of England. I said ' but surely, you're a southerner!', "nah", she said, "I mean South of the river!".

I equate it to New Yorkers. Someone living south of the river would be a 'bridge and tunnel' person in New York. Whereas the folks who live south look upon all us north of the river folks as crack heads ;)

You can get unfurnished apartments, although most are probably furnished.

Would you be renting on your own or sharing? You can obviously get a lot more home for your money if you share (and it's a good way to meet like minded people). Plenty 30 something professionals share if they're single.

There's a bewildering number of websites you could look at for property, but here's one to start you off

http://www.londonpropertynews.co.uk/

It's all "what ifs" right now, but I would certainly consider a share. Just curious as to what to do with my furniture in NYC if the option works out. Can cross that bridge when I come to it though.

Thanks again for your insight - v. helpful.

"Finsbury Park & Belsize Park are worlds apart. I think there's been a typo here!! The comments that Kate has made are relevant for Belsize Park but definitely not Finsbury Park!"

Ooops Charley, you're right, I was having a brainwash. I meant Primrose Hill. Sound similar, right? Okay okay...

_____________________________________

I wasn't being picky, I just would hate the thought of somebody going to Finsbury Park and expecting to see film stars and tree lined streets!!!

Kate and David, thanks a lot!

Another very good website is http://www.upmystreet.com/

It gives statistics about crime, health, average house prices and what sort of people live in the area.

If you're working in Docklands, then either rent a flat there or rent somewhere central. Don't start messing about with suburbs, it really isn't worth the hassle.

Also, if you could advise a rough budget, then one can recommend with more accuracy.

Ha ha ha I never knew that us North-of-River folks were referred to as crackheads but then I never knew Finchley (where I live) was so desperately depressing either...

(It's utterly standard suburbia with nice houses, nice local restaurants, reasonably good travel times into London, good access to M1 and I really enjoy living here myself.

Then again, I take it quite well when MK slags off something I'm keen on - it reaffirms my thoughts on the matter as I think I'm as far removed from his/ her opinions as it's possible to be!

"nice houses, nice local restaurants"

I can't stand nice, nice is too bland. It's better to have fabulous or awful, but nice just annoys me.

You might want to check out Putney. It links with the Jubilee line at waterloo. It's full of young professionals (and a few old amateurs like myself)and is also popular with yanks, as is Fulham.

Neither are cheap though.

Also if you want to know what your travelling is like the Transport For London website has a journey planner which gives routs and more importantly times for any journey in London

Thanks - in this day and age I don't think "cheap" exists anymore! I'll look in to your suggestions.

Don't forget that Canary Wharf is also served by the Docklands Light Railway, which runs to Greenwich. The nearer you get to open space there, such as Greenwich Park and Blackheath, the more expensive it gets, but it could be another option to look at. It also has overground suburban railway services connecting with the Underground at London Bridge.

Fabulous is great for special occasions but for every day life I really appreciate a nice neighbourhood (with neighbours we know, some well enough to socialise with, that's not common for London), with some restaurants where the food is good, the owners friendly and the prices reasonable and amenities such as shops, a council that believes in recycling, parks and open spaces.

Nice is perfectly good for me!

"a council that believes in recycling, parks and open spaces."

You're making reference to Barnet council's compulsory recycling scheme. This gets them money from rebates (etc. I can't remember the exact details). Also, you fail to mention the 1000GBP fine if a recyclable item finds its way into your ordinary rubbish (garbage...do I need to translate?) bin.

I just couldn't live in Finchley, I agree that the restaurants are good value for money. I love Rani (do you know it?), and they practically give the food away, but the restaurant itself would benefit from a complete refurbishment. However, there are too many houses, no noteworthy shops, no bars, no London feel. It's rather like a "nice" girl, I can't be bothered to explain what I mean by that, I just hope that some people will know what I mean.

I dont care what it is that gets my council to take recycling seriously, I just care that they do...

But then I pay more than I need to for my electricity too in order to stick with a more environmentally friendly supplier.

Yes, I know Rani. Can't say their food thrills me but I am not that keen on Indian veggie food - I'm Indian and lentils and veggie curries have always been my least favourite food.

As for the rest... shrug. I am not into the kind of bars that are full of people air kissing and "daaaahling, ho good to seeeeeeee you"-ing and for the rest I'm happy to do a short hop away from the house to enjoy those and the retire back to my comfortable, suburban niceness.

ho = so

Oh the shops bit - I'm not into designer clothes, not into shoes at ALL (shock, horror, yes really) and don't feel the need to spend £100 rather than £5 on a tub of moisturiser so the shops work for me but I can appreciate that for those who need their designer labels and exclusive stuff, Finchley is not going to do it for them.

though not a Londoner i've spent weeks, off and on, in the Crystal Palace area - a nice mix of ethnic groups and fairly middle class it seems - clean, safe, great transit - trains to several London stations and buses everywhere. Also fine vast park - great for jogging, baby-bugging, walking, etc. Lots of stores, super Safeway supermarket, caffes, wine bars, etc. - and from some digs fine views over London spread out below - one of highest places in London area, reason BBC plopped two of their radio/tellie transmitters here.

Oh I'm very surprised that you don't like Rani. I love it for the fact that its vegetarian, and even without any meat, every single dish has identity, and unique flavour. And their buffet is around twelve pounds per person for a few courses, and to be honest that's how much I'd pay for a glass of wine/cheap champagne in a bar, so it really is super value.

But, if we may go back to the original issue of where to live... There's no sense in spending half a million on an average family home in Finchley when they only need a one/two bed apartment which could be located on top of work or somewhere central. Of course, they may wish to rent or spend half of that amount, but I use it as an example that can simply be scaled up or down, and applied to the rental market too. Actually, reading some property pages recently, there is very little difference in rental prices between central London and the suburbs, there's nothing like the difference one observes in sales.

Oh I wasn't suggesting Finchley as the best option for the OP. I was responding to your assertion that it's so depressing!

Skies are grey, and every house (virtually) looks the same! I'd have to go on prozac if I lived there I think, but maybe Rani would rescue me, but then again all that food, and I wouldn't fit into anything in my wardrobe. Tragedy!