London Italy Amsterdam 4-22 Aug 2017
 

Hi All

A group of 4 on 1st trip, will be travelling to London on 4th Aug 2017 and back home from Amsterdam on 22nd Aug 2017.

Any recommendation on the best route via flight/train/bus for the following :
How many days in each place.

London
Rome
Florence ( Pisa, CT )
Venice
Milan ( Lake Como )
Amsterdam

Thank you.

You have listed 9 destinations. Assuming you leave home on the 4th, you will arrive on the 5th if you are coming from most places outside of Europe. This gives you 16 full days. Moving between your 9 destinations will eat up another 3-4 days. This leaves you somewhere around 12-13 days to visit 9 destinations. You need to cut down the number of your destinations to have a decent trip.

Hi

How to re-arrange the destinations for last stop at Amsterdam? We are open to the best available options.

Assistance, please?

thank you.

For no-frills one-way air fares in Europe: www.skyscanner.com
For everything to do with rail travel: www.seat61.com
Each time you move will cost you better than a half-day, what with the travel itself, packing up and unpacking, and moving between hotels and transport terminals. Plus the energy and strain of navigating unfamiliar territories. I'd drop at least one of the Italian destinations, or drop Amsterdam.

Gosh what a rush.

Well Florence looks important as it is commutable distance ot Pisa and CT. In August CT will be crammed with people, the pathways will be unmovable and the trains (well the trains could be a mob). Of all of this I'd drop CT.

Pisa is half day from Florence so I'd look at

London 3nights
Fly Venice 3 nights (drop in on Padua and Lake Garda)
Train Florence 3 nights
Train Rome 3 nights
Fly to Amsterdam 3 nights

I can't see much time for Milan either, swap Garda for Como

Four people, nine major destinations, 17.5 days on the ground, jet lag, for at least some of you for at least a few days, about 3.5 days internal travel = a crappy/testy group and very little time to see much in most of those fabulous places.

If London and Amsterdam are the 'musts' - And wanting/needing a little extra time for London, first because it is by far the largest city and you need to have some recovery time then pick maybe two of the Italy stops and eliminate the rest

Something like 5 or 6 days in London (6 or 7 nights), travel day fly to say Rome, 5 nights in Rome, half a travel day train to Venice, 2 or 3 nights in Venice, travel day fly to Amsterdam, 2 or 3 nights in Amsterdam, fly home.

If Florence/Pisa are more important to you substitute them for Venice.

Re bilboburgler's itinerary -- while 'doable' it would leave you a grand total of 2.5 days or less in each destination which is <i>nothing</i> in London and almost <i>nothing</i> in Rome, and doesn't leave time for day trips from Florence or Venice..

You really do need to account for travel time and there being four of you which will mean some things take longer.

London
Rome
Florence ( Pisa, CT )
Venice
Milan ( Lake Como )
Amsterdam>

I'd suggest:

London -4 days
Fly to Rome - 4 days
Train to Florence - 2 days
Train to Venice -2 days
Lake Como - 2 days
Fly to Amsterdam-4 days

Rather rushed but doable. Book Italian trains in advance to get discounted tickets -www.seat61.com is the best site for booking your own discounted train tickets -other sites I like for a ton of general info on trains - www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

Not close to doable -- they don't have that much time.. Your itinerary would require more than 23 days. They have 17.5 days plus their departure day.

(to get 2 free days in a city requires 3 nights)

Not close to doable -- they don't have that much time.>

It is doable as I show -yes only two nights not full days in any place but Rome, London and A'dam - lots of folks travel like this - whether we Fodorgarchs deem it 'not close to doable or not'.

So it's really 1.5 'full' days in Florence and Venice and Lake Como.

Many folks would be satisfied with just a look -to have seen say Florence or Venice- they do not have to stay several days in any place or just skip it in my, yes subjective, opinion.

Yes it is a little rushed -I would suggest cutting off Lake Como and adding a day to Venice and Florence and then it would be doable for you or not?

Or drop a day from Amsterdam and put it in Florence -could even do a day trip like taking the bus to nearby Siena for a taste of an iconic Tuscan hill town and see something besides mega-huge tourist meccas (Siena is touristy too in summer but not nearly as swarming as Florence or Venice -amongst the most mobbed tourist towns in Europe in their main historic core and one reason many do not really enjoy them but endure them at this time. Plus weather in Florence swelters with highs in 90s then - some folks will be content if not happy to get out after a short stay - all that is needed to see the must sees IMO.

Agree with janisj. Drop Milan,the lakes, CT, and either Venice or Florence. I too would do London, Venice, Rome and Amsterdam if you need to fly out of Amsterdam. Thankfully Paris is not on your list. Add back Florence if you can fly home from Rome and skip Amsterdam.

Well yes I failed to note you wanted to go to Pisa and CT on one of your days in Florence - if so add a day or two to Florence and drop Lake Como- check into tours from Florence that do the Leaning Tower and CT in one day - really hard to do on your own by train.

Pisa yes is a short train ride from Florence but CT about 3 hours all told.

Hi

Thank you for all the suggestions.
Is it possible to take train from London to Rome/Venice? An overnight train? Just an experience.

Not direct from London but yes from Paris you can take an overnight Thello train (www.thello.com) right to Venice- and yes I love night trains and to do one will be an experience not forgotten (some love em some can't stand then though - you will get vastly differing opinions here on that).

Get a private compartment for two or four and bring any food and drink aboard and earplugs if bothered by noise -there will always be some from inside and outside the train. Some vino may help sleep IMO.

Nope -- not realistically anyway. And how will the four of you get along when 2 or 3 of you arrive in Rome sleep deprived?

Most folks can sleep -I've taken zillions of night trains and never had any problems sleeping-nor did many others apparently in my couchette.

Very realistic and many Europeans do it every night (though the number of night trains has declined due to cheap flights).

You do not want to go by night train to Rome as there is none but to Venice.

Like I said there are varying different opinions on this but I speak from my own experience of taking again hundreds of night trains.

https://www.seat61.com/thello-train-...s-to-italy.htm -Man in Seat 61 gives a positive take too.

You also save money on a hotel for a night.

Lots of young people all over Europe to a lot of different destinations in a short period of time. They sleep on overnight trains, put their luggage in train stations while they sightsee for a day. They have a lots of fun. Most people know this. A great many older travelers did it themselves when they were young and haven't forgotten. Lovely movies have been made about such young travelers in Europe.

Even many older travelers to Europe spend less than a day in Pisa and Lago di Como, only a day in Florence, only a day in Venice, only a day in CT. If one is not going to museums, I'm a bit stumped as to how to fill more than a day in Amsterdam, but most young people enjoy more time in the city. But rhe only cities here requiring multiple days are Rome and London.

If the travelers don't want to fly but use trains I'd probably do the order this way:

London>Venice>Lago di Como>Florence>Rome>CT>Pisa>Amsterdam

In the above itinerary, one would need to fly at the very end from Pisa to Amsterdam. And one could stay in Pisa and day trip to le Cinque Terre, saving a hotel switch.

The VAST majority of night trains have been eliminated/discontinued -- for good reasons.

Thank you everybody.

my plan will be as follows :

London 4 nights
Night train to Venice 3 nights
Train Florence 3 nights ( day trip to Siena/Pisa/CT )
Train Rome 3 nights
Fly to Amsterdam 3 nights

welcome any other alternatives. Many Thanks.

you will have to get of a train in Paris to catch the night train to Venice.

CT, you have been warned. I'd spend a bit of time in the Tuscan countryside rather than pack those tiny villages. If you want to do the walks this might help https://www.coastalwalking.com/Cinqu...nque_Terre.php

If you have lots of energy & can handle a long day of sightseeing, I would suggest that you combine Pisa & le Cinque Terre in the same day trip. See the monuments of Pisa in the morning and then head to le Cinque Terre afterwards. Have a nice lunch in le Cinque Terre when you arrive. If you've got swimsuits bring them, and take a dip in the water (Monterosso al Mare is easiest). I think it is likely to be much too hot for hiking, but towards the end of the day you can take a ferry to see all 5 towns from the water, from Monterosso al Mare to Riomaggiore. Buy some food to eat on the train back to Florence. Be sure you know when the last trains leave le Cinque Terre that will get you back to Florence.

There is no night train from London to Venice. You not only have to change trains in Paris, you have to change stations . . .

You would have to leave London in the afternoon in time to arrive at Gare de Nord by about 6PM. Then Once you get to Gare de Lyon to catch the 7:15PM train, you will be on that train for the next 15 hours. So all in all it will be about a 20 hour travel day/night.

The VAST majority of night trains have been eliminated/discontinued -- for good reasons.>

What reasons -folks can't sleep - they did for years and years -the only good reasons they have been eliminated are -cheap airfares and bullet day trains.

How many night trains have you taken?

”They sleep on overnight trains, put their luggage in train stations while they sightsee for a day. They have a lots of fun. Most people know this. A great many older travelers did it themselves when they were young and haven't forgotten.”

Ah yes, those were the days. A first class one month Eurailpass cost me $210 in 1977. Haven't forgotten a thing from that first trip.

But my body can't take that abuse now.

Never try over night train before.

My plan will be as follows :

5-9th Aug London 4D3N
9th Aug Night Train London to Paris to Venice 3D2N 14hours @ EUR55, sleeping Cabin EUR120
10-12th Aug Morning Train Venice to Florence 3D2N 2 hours @ EUR25
12-16th Aug Morning Train Florence to Rome 4D3N 1.5hours @ EUR30
16-18th Aug Morning Train Rome to Milan 2D1N 3 hours @ EUR40.00
18-22th Aug Morning Flight from Milan to Amsterdam 3D2N SGD104.00

Welcome any other best alternatives. Many thanks.

London to Venice in one day? You don't like to fly? Are you figuring in the cost of London to Paris?

I can see doing this if staying in Paris but to do from London and changing in Paris is tough - you have to get from Paris Nord station to Bercy (or Gare du Lyon?) station. Leave plenty of time.

Again why not fly London to Venice?

>>5-9th Aug London 4D3N
9th Aug Night Train London to Paris to Venice 3D2N 14hours @ EUR55, sleeping Cabin EUR120
10-12th Aug Morning Train Venice to Florence 3D2N 2 hours @ EUR25
12-16th Aug Morning Train Florence to Rome 4D3N 1.5hours @ EUR30
16-18th Aug Morning Train Rome to Milan 2D1N 3 hours @ EUR40.00
18-22th Aug Morning Flight from Milan to Amsterdam 3D2N SGD104.00<<

AWFULLY rushed.

What you actually have is 3 full and 2 half days in London, 2 days in Venice, 3.5 days in Florence with two full day trips from there, 1.5 days in Rome, 3.5 days in Milan . . . and <u>you REALLY should not be flying to Amsterdam the same day you fly home!!!</u>

>>9th Aug Night Train London to Paris to Venice 3D2N 14hours @ EUR55, sleeping Cabin EUR120<<

The train from Paris to Venice is about 14.5 hours . . . But that does not include the time it takes to get to Kings Cross, the 45 minutes advance check in for the Eurostar, the train ride to Paris, or the travel from Gare du Nord to Gare du Lyon. So your '14 hours' is quite a bit longer than that.

Are all four of you game for this hectic plan?

Delete Amsterdam and stay in Paris 3-4 days and take night train and you have a more workable easier a bit itinerary. Fly into London and out of Rome.

Have you already been to Paris?

and you REALLY should not be flying to Amsterdam the same day you fly home!!!>

jan I think OP means fly to Amsterdam and spend 4N/3D? I hope anyway.

My plan :
5-8th Aug London 4D3N
9-11th Aug Morning Flight London to Venice 3D2N 2.5 hours @ SGD77 British Airway
12-14th Aug Morning Train Venice to Florence 3D2N 2 hours @ EUR25
15-17th Aug Morning Train Florence to Rome 3D2N 1.5hours @ EUR30
18-19th Aug Morning Train Rome to Milan 2D1N 3 hours @ EUR40
20-22th Aug Morning Flight Milan to Amsterdam 3D2N SGD104.00

Is Florence a must?

Welcome any other best alternatives. Many thanks.

My other plan :

5-8th Aug London
9-11th Aug Morning Flight London to Rome @ SGD148 British Airway
12-14th Aug Morning Train Rome to Florence
15-16th Morning Train Florence to Milan
17-18th Morning Train Milan to Venice
19th Afternoon Flight Venice to Amsterdam @ SGD163 KLM

>>jan I think OP means fly to Amsterdam and spend 4N/3D? I hope anyway<<

Can't be if they are spending several days in Milan with a side trip to Lake Como.

But the whole itinerary has become very confusing - what does >>12-14th Aug Morning Train Venice to Florence 3D2N 2 hours @ EUR25<< mean? Is the train from Venice to Florence on the 12th or the 14th?

The latest plan is better but soooooo rushed - I sure wouldn't do it.

London Aug 5-8
Fly to Rome Aug 9
Train to Florence Aug 12
Train to Milan Aug 15
Train to Venice Aug 17
Flight to A'dam Aug 19
Fly home Aug 22.

Florence is not "a must" but if you want, you can take a morning train from Venice to Florence, or from Rome to Florence, put your luggage in the train station, and walk around for several hours before returning to the train station to continue on your journey.

Do you need time in Milan to go shopping or sightseeing inside museums? If you do, be sure that the day you pick to be in Milan is a day when what you want to do is open.

12-14 Aug, travel day on 12 Aug and stay till 14 Aug so is 4D3N

We have already booked for ticket to fly from Amsterdam back home.

We have never been to Paris.

I knew most museums not open on Monday? We want to shop in Milan.

Did you buy tickets for trains already at those prices? If not do so ASAP - those fares are lowest fares possible but not nearly always available.

We have yet to purchase train tickets. Yes those are the lowest price. We will buy asap

You have 7 flights/long/semi long distance train rides in 18 days. So basically you are traveling on nearly 40% of your limited days in Europe.

Are you more interested in trains and airports than actually <i>being</i> anywhere? Just asking? A huge % of your time and money will be spent just moving from point to point. Me -- I'd rather spend my resources seeing and doing things . . .

The latest itinerary is better but still rushed, especially for Rome. Its otherwise not bad if you cut out all the side trips to CT, Como etc.
You can however decide when you arrive in your main destinations as to whether you have time for excursions. Would not recommend a one day trip to Florence on your way elsewhere. We did that once by leaving Venice on the earliest train, tour guide at the Florence train station for a full day tour before heading off to Rome. Two years later none of us remembered much about Florence and we had to return later for more time to explore the city and some of the rest of Tuscany.
When I was young I did three 2 month Euraill pass holidays in Europe and there were times we did just as described above, which is to spend one day in a city before moving on. This however was not the norm but necessary due to cost constraints. Once spent a night on the train from Munich to Hamburg and back since we could not afford a place to stay during the Octoberfest. Do not have the most memories of these abbreviated visits and missed many things. The norm during my youth was to move when you wanted to move and where you wanted to move as you had a student 2 month Eurail or Interrail pass. Although everybody had a sense of where they wanted to go, (using Lets go Europe as our guide) plans would adjust day by day. You met a lot of fellow travelers from all over so there was new information or ideas all of the time.
The above itinerary as I understand it gives one 3 1/2 days in London (day of arrival plus 3 days), 2 1/2 days in Rome, 2 1/2 days in Florence, 1/1/2 days in Milan, 1 1/2 days in Venice and 1 1/2 days in Amsterdam. I would drop Milan and add a night to Rome. You are losing almost a day of your trip moving just for a short time in Milan. This still gives you a very rushed trip. It takes time to get from place to place within a city and there are lines at many tourist spots and quite possibly summer heat In Italy. I think you will have a good time but will leave all of your destinations feeling rushed and with the thought that just an extra day or so in each place would have allowed you to accomplish most of what you wanted to do.

My plan :

London Aug 5-9
Fly to Venice Aug 10-11
Train to Milan Aug 12-13
Train to Rome Aug 14-18
Fly to Amsterdam Aug 19-21
Fly home Aug 22.