Chopping block. Cool!

Warning re Portobello Rd Market (I go probably every other trip to London)

It has always been popular/crowded but my last two visits were unbelievable (and I mean <B><RED>CROWDED </B></RED>, nothing like the itty bitty crowds PQ was on about)
You must get there by 8:00AM (8:30 at the very latest). By 9:30 or 10 AM it is totally unwalkable - imagine NOLA at Mardi Gras. Yes,<i> that</i> crowded.

Don't imagine a leisurely stroll through the stalls/shops - more of a zoo. In May I took my cousin, we got a late start and didn't arrive til about 8:30. I had a specific shop I needed to visit so we went there, visited a few stalls and struggled to leave at 9:45 -- it was like swimming up stream trying to get back to the tube station. A river of humanity.

So if you go (and it IS terrific) plan on going at 8AM. Many people arrive before 7AM and the smart ones are out of there by 9:30.

The last time I was in London with my daughter we had a lovely stop at St. Martin in the Fields for breakfast followed by a time for my girl to do a brass rubbing. She was probably 14 at the time, and that brass rubbing is taking up a valuable piece of real estate on her bedroom wall. It's a nice chance for mum to relax while the kids do something interesting. It's not free, but not horribly expensive either.

Great, thanks for the warning, janisj. We will only go if we go early! Sounds positively vile later – none of us is particularly enamoured with this kind of crowded environment.

Thanks, cferrb - interesting idea. And a different kind of souvenir.

Just found out that Brakeaway Bike Tour stops for a break at Covent Garden. So that's a 2-4-1 deal right there!

Also that it meets @ 10:30 and goes for 3.5 hrs. So puts paid to the idea of doing Muggles on same day.

Ackshully...

Doable. Bikes finishes @ Waterloo 14:00.
Muggles starts @ London Bridge 14:30.

Knock over the 2 'tours' in a day. Remaining time more flexible.

Sorry to be using this space for thinking things through.

Right, here we go. From an overview, I've started to zoom in. But not set in stone.

Friday
Arrive. Southbank walk (passing Globe, Tate, etc) and St Paul's.
Hyde Park. R&R. Bed

Saturday
Brakeaway Bikes 10:30-14:00
Muggles Walk: 14:30-16:30
car showrooms in South K and Knightsbridge

Sunday
Tower of London 10:00
Boat to Greenwich, train/tube back
pub dinner Churchill Arms Notting Hill

Monday
Harry Potter Watford 10:00 (leave from Euston stn early)
British Museum
1/2 tix Leicester Sq for a show
show at night

Tuesday
Hampton Court Palace (leave fr. Waterloo early)
shopping and/or Cabinet War Rooms
London Eye to top it off (chosen over O2!)

still open to Dungeon
leaving room for eatery suggestions
and shopping
and flip-outs/hissy fits/moods
and Piccadilly/Regent St
and leaving the boys in safe havens while I skedaddle
and many of the other wonderful ideas supplied so generously by all and sundry above

THANK YOU ALL!!

>>Doable. Bikes finishes @ Waterloo 14:00.
Muggles starts @ London Bridge 14:30.<<

No time to eat, no time to relax. On the run for 6 straight hours?? A rest break at Covent Garden wouldn't do it for me in a full day's trek.

With only 5 days I would leave all out of downtown excursions out of your itinerary except possibly Windsor (which I like better than Hampton Court). You might not even have enough time for Windsor.

At Leicester Square pick up half price tickets for a musical (anyone will probably do).

The boys would like the Imperial War Museum and City of London Museum.

I have to disagree w/ lauren. I love Windsor but Hampton Court Palace is even better IMO. And especially for a family - the Tudor kitchens, the HenryVIII connections, The Maze, the docents in character/costume. Just a better experience for kids the ages of yours. The State rooms, St Georges Chapel at Windsor are terrific but for teen boys HCP would be the winner.

(Been to both more times than I can count - probably 10 times to Windsor and at least 8 times to HCP)

You don't have to go to either one if you run out of time - but if you do, make it HCP.

I will not lose heart!

EIther replacing or switching Greenwich with Muggles.

Greenwich convenient with Tower, though, as europeannovice suggested.

Well kudos to your planning and openess but there is one thing that you should do first IMO - is to take the London eye Ferrish Wheel - this allows you to orient yourselvs to London - get a bird's eye view of it all - especially the Thames - there is commentary and landmarks are pointed out by signs, etc - plus it is one thing kids will love - this should IMO be your very first thing to do especially with kids.

Your teens aren't interested in rock 'n' roll history? The original Hard Rock cafe, for instance?

The original Hard Rock cafe is now just like any other Hard Rock cafe. Sadly. Fond memories of the early '70s, hopping on a bus at Marble Arch down to Hyde Park Corner with a group of others from the ad agency where we worked, for a burger each and a couple of ice creams to share between us. The Hard Rock look then was a 1950s American diner, with none of the waitresses under 35 and all wearing white overalls and shoes. Those were the days!

Isn't there really cool vintage rock stuff at the Hard Rock, from the days of the 'British invasion'? Fun stuff for teen boys to see.

Your teens aren't interested in rock 'n' roll history? The original Hard Rock cafe, for instance?>

No few are there is a new music and some teens disdain rock and roll and most don't know bo didilly about it. Maybe techno or some electronic music or rap or hip-hop but not Good Ole Rock and Roll!

I beg to differ, Pal. I know kids who love the Stones, Who, Beatles, etc., along with the new sounds of music.

Only the OP knows for sure.

OK - I agree some kids like old-time rock - mine never did except when forced to listen to it then he said he liked it. But the Hard Rock Cafe could appeal to kids anyway the Hard Rock franchise being so pervasive - and this is the original one, started I believe by two Americans living in London who couldn't get a proper burger - the rest is history. Certainly a kind of lunch there American kids could love. Good suggestion.

Thanks for the suggestion, Tabernash2... But I think at this stage another idea just sends me into a bit of a whirl. And while it may appeal to them as something different, I'm pretty sure there's still a Hard Rock in Sydney and we live an hour from there so it's always something we could do at home.

PalenQ – I've kept the London Eye for the last day and the bike tour for the first as an orientation thingy. Though not set in stone, as I said!

I would do the London Eye the first thing - to whet the appetite about what lies all around below - biking the last day when they have a better idea of the rules of the road - wrong side of road thing - just more confident and experienced - can't see any valuable orientation by bike. But I admire greatly all your planning and keeping the kids in mind too - something some adults just neglect and have them only going to museums, etc - the bike ride I think is a great idea. Something they will remember more than say the WW2 - ancient history to them - War Cabinet Rooms, etc.

I think the bike tour is a great idea for day 1.
1) outside
2) fresh air
3) activity/movement - not sitting around

While I understand the ideas of wrong side of the road and such, in reality, you will be with a group - at a basic level, you are following the back wheel of the person in front of you - so as long as you follow "traffic" you are okay.

Also, I assume they do something similar as Fat Tire - which is primarily through the parks. There is a little street riding - not much - so you will be fine. Also, it does give you a great overview of London and a sense of where things are.

I think you have good thoughts about avoiding Hard Rock - not because your boys wouldn't enjoy it, because sometimes the need to eat is greater than the ability to plan it and get to the other side of town. That actually is my concern about the day you are planning on eating at a pub in Notting Hill. I don't know if that is close to your hotel/apartment? But after a day at Tower of London and/or Greenwich, I don't think I'd want to hunt down a specific pub on the other side of town.

I agree it makes sense to put the Tower of London and Greenwich on the same day. Another quick thought - it made sense for us to buy an annual family pass for Historic Royal Properties - which includes Tower of London and Hampton Court. One bonus was that a day ticket allows you through the maze once, with the annual pass, the kids could go through it multiple times. Of course, they were younger, but the adults enjoyed sitting at the exit waiting for them to do it once or twice after we did it as a family. We also ended up going into the Tower of London on two different days breaking each visit into smaller chunks - of course, one child had just finished a project on it, so we really spent a bit of time there.

(I just looked quickly, and it looks like a family membership is £86 for a year for all properties. Tower of London is £57 and Hampton Court is £45 so it would make sense if you visit both.)

I agree with Janisj on favoring Hampton Court over Windsor. For Windsor, you have to line up and wait on a security line for at least one hour and then you proceed to the ticket area so even if you have your ticket in hand, you of course still wait on the security line.

Since the Royal Family still lives there you are only allowed to see some of the rooms. Whereas at Hampton Court there is a lot more buildings/rooms/areas to visit.

Plus my son was not interested in the doll house. I was more interested in it than he so Windsor didn't hold the same appeal to him as Hampton Court Palace did.

We found going at night to the London Eye, the lines moved very quickly and I think we only queued for about 20 minutes. I agree it helps to get over jet lag if you are outside rather than inside on the first day.

On the London Eye you are in a pod with 20 other people for the half hour it goes around. I thought it was nice to do after we had seen some of the sights so when we looped around we easily recognized some buildings and pointed them out.

Also on your first day since you will be by St Paul--if you have energy you can climb all the way up to the Golden Gallery for a view of the Eye among other things. The climb to the Whispering Gallery is easy--big wide open stairs, even to the stone gallery is fine but your view is obstructed by the stone wall. It is that last part from Stone to Golden Gallery that is hair raising.

My son then 10 actually enjoyed the Cabinet War Rooms. He liked looking at the time line in the room.

Agree too that given the timing of the bike tour and muggles tour you don't really have enough time to eat unless you want to grab something on the run and eat while walking on the tour--not very relaxing.

It might make sense to combine Tower with Muggles tour but don't know how to fit in Greenwich.

Thanks, PalenQ – I'm trying!

Tend to agree with europeannovice re bikes. And BTW we drive on left-hand side of road in Oz, so no dramas there! I like the idea of doing something active on the first day and getting our bearings on the ground. Also it takes the pressure off me by having a guide for a few hours.

Thanks for your input again, europeannovice! We will try and climb St Paul on the first day. And I take your point about the Notting Hill meal. Might just leave that open for anytime it works for us.

I haven't compared prices, but I was hoping that the 2-4-1 deals would work out better and I guess there's always the possibility that things may go awry and we don't get to HCP after all!

I think we may have to forgo Greenwich.

Oops! Sorry about that...

I combined surfmom and europeannovice in one!

Thanks, surfmom for your input again. Some of the above applies to you.

Not to confuse this by trying to add a new thing, but I have never seen any mention of the view from the top of The Shard.

Anybody been?
Was it worthwhile?

bendigo - it's £25 for adults, £19 for kids.

you might like to google how other people felt about this before you book!

Plus, they publish panoramic views from the Shard on their own website, and with those you don't have to worry about clouds and rain getting in the way.

The Transport for London museum and shop at Covent Garden is a great place to shop for London souvenirs - especially those iconic ones involving double-decker buses, the Tube, Mind the Gap Tee-shirts, etc. - grad a model of a bus or tube train or those legendary London Tube wall maps - even if you do not pay to see the old forms of transport in the museum proper - plus Covent Garden is a great great place for kids - really should be at the top of your list if only for a short time - the most lively place in London - don't miss it!

Just flipped through a couple of reviews for The Shard: along the lines of expensive, dirty windows, amazing view, aim to get you in and out as fast as possible...

So, not for us. I think London Eye sounds more fun, anyway. And I'd take lower height but greater soul in St Paul's any day.

PalenQ – luckily our bike ride on day 1 stops for a break and something to eat in Covent Garden, so it'll be a good intro and we can return on our own.

Note: printing off 2-4-1 vouchers. Not available for Tower of London.

<< <i> Note: printing off 2-4-1 vouchers. Not available for Tower of London. </i> >>

Bummer -- that's one of the more expensive ones. It's just you and the boys, right? So that's "only" &pound;10.75 more . . .

(Still worth it!)

I like your quote marks "only"!! And the Aussie dollar continues to tumble...

Well, slip...

Don't give up on any 2for1 deals. There are booklets with all the offers available where ever you buy National Rail tix - grab one when you get to London to make sure you are getting access to all the deals currently available.

Q about 2 for 1 and kids - 12 and 14 - do they pay half-price or go free - if so do they get half off half price - if not it may not be worth all the hassle? I understand different places have different ages, etc.

Thanks, bendigo – I'll do that.

PalenQ – I think basically one child will go free on child rate (which is not always simply half adult rate) using 2-4-1.

So, same as each getting half off child rate.

I think I've only read 'children free' at one place - Churchill WR maybe? And mine are still 'children' @ under 15.

I don't think (hope not) it's going to be too much hassle. Just have to get to National Rail stn first thing to buy travel cards and pick up this booklet bendigo mentioned. Have already printed off 2-4-1 vouchers.

Are you landing a Gatwick - if so buy a return paper train ticket to London and back and use it for 2 for 1 your whole stay. Not sure if this works on the Heathrow trains or not but I believe it does for Gatwick trains - just like any train.

Heathrow, so it doesn't work. Thanks for thinking, though.

Also we're not returning, heading for Pareeeee...

And assuming you are going by Eurostar, you'll have access to a range of 2for1 deals in Paris too:

http://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/eurost...m=facebook_1x1

Thanks, bendigo – bonus! I didn't know about this.

I won't bin the tickets on arrival now!

Hi smm - I've taken my kids to London for several days almost every summer for the past few years, so we've seen most of the sights at least once. Luckily for me, they love history and museums.

The places they like the most are Imperial War Museum, Cabinet War Rooms, Tower of London and the British Museum. They also enjoyed the maze at Hampton Court Palace, but were not that excited about the palace itself as they prefer castles (I really liked it, though).

I've taken them to see "One Man, Two Guvnors" and "39 Steps" and they loved both.

I've never taken them to tea at a hotel because it's so expensive, but we did enjoy tea and scones at Kensington Palace Orangery.

Also, there are a few old Routemaster double decker buses still operating http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g1...ter.Buses.html
I would not recommend spending too much time on the bus in central London because the traffic can be really slow. My kids love the tube.

Sorry if I've repeated info already posted. I didn't have time to read all the replies.