Thanks for setting me straight, jansj.

Tabernash2 mentioned it was at sundown, but maybe it was a mid-summer comment. I'll have to rethink this.

Hampton Court: now need to decide if we should go or not. Aagh.

Piccadilly was just to pass by Regent St showroom really, as suggested by bendigo.

OK, agree Tower plus Muggles is enough. My notes say 14:30 for Muggles. No time for anything apart from lunch in between.

Hmm. Decisions, decisions...

I think that the walk or bus down the magnificent sweep of Regent Street from Oxford Circus to Piccadilly Circus is magnificent.
But maybe the night time Christmas lights gave it a special aura - nice but not so special on Street View:
https://www.google.com/maps/preview#...9!4f13.1&fid=5

There is nothing to see at Piccadilly Circus.>

Duh seeing Piccadilly Circus to me at least was one of the main things for my first visit - like saying there is nothing at Trafalgar Square - see the famous statue in the middle of Piccadilly Circus, which is right by the Trocadero Center.

>>Duh seeing Piccadilly Circus to me at least was one of the main things for my first visit - like saying there is nothing at Trafalgar Square -<<

PQ - you really need to get off the paint -- we do worry about you.

OK - let' compare/contrast: Trafalgar Sq - National Gallery, St Martins in the field, National Portrait Gallery, Nelson's column/the Lions/Large fountains, the plinths, Admiralty Arch, etc

Piccadilly Circus - small statue of eros, backpackers sitting on the steps below eros, extremely busy tube station, advertising lights (which are only a 'site really when it is dark), Lilywhites.

Jan you forgot the Trocadero Centre is your listing of Schlock surrounding Piccadilly Circus. I fear you would say the same about Times Square in NY and tell folks not to bother about seeing it - Piccadilly Circus is one of the most famous things in London - warts and all and most folks would want to see it and then be flummoxed at why it is famous.

yes, but Pal you cna easily see that sort of stuff from the top of a bus.

no need to waste time actually going there.

I once bought a very good tennis racket at Lillywhites.

Yes annhig I do agree with just a quick look but a quick look - like going to NYC and not at least looking at Times Square, which I am sure janis and others would call very tacky and not worth the time!

This is a few-minute site and no not just from the top of a bus - this area is always thronged with people as it is on the edge of the West End Theatre district - walk down from Piccadilly to watch the Swiss Clock show - just like those in Europe like in Munich - fancy clock with moving figures strutting around to music - Leicester Square in here as well - like saying to skip a part of London that is so so popular with many.

And keep walking the several blocks to Covent Garden and see the perpetual street theatre performers there - great fun for kids that age and maybe adults too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15930226

the Clock was given to London by Switzerland in friendship - see the BBC link on it for a video of the show. Yes schlocky but some schlock can be fun!

I don't know if you want to do both a bike tour for three hours and then spend another hour or two climbing over 500 steps in St Paul Cathedral on the same day. It might be too much.

I wouldn't eliminate Hampton Court Palace. We spent ten days in London and it was clearly one of our favorites along with the Tower of London.

I will make a suggestion as to itinerary working around what I think are your "must sees".

Friday--St Paul climb and area exploration

Sat--Bike tour combined with Muggles tour in the afternoon?

Sunday--Tower of London then take boat ride right at the exit of Tower of London over to Greenwich for the afternoon.

Monday-Harry Potter Warner Bros tour and then a museum on your return. Either British Museum or Natural History since they are not near each other. For a first time visitor I would say British Museum wins. That is what we did too and still have yet to visit the Natural History museum in London. Also keep in mind that on Friday I think the British museum is open late until 8:30PM. I know the National Gallery is open late until 9PM on Fridays too--don't know how tired you will feel though since Friday is your arrival day.

Tuesday--Hampton Court Palace take the 1/2 hour train ride from Waterloo station try to arrive at opening 9AM to allow plenty of time and after Hampton Court walk across Westminster Bridge to go see the Cabinet War Rooms. They are open until 6PM. Allow 2 and 1/2 hours for the War Rooms and Churchill Museum within. The London Eye is very close by and if the weather is clear you can do that toward evening.

Just my suggestions for grouping things.

Thanks everyone, once again – more of the spirited discussions! You all seem to know each other very well...

I don't mind seeing things that are a bit down-at-heel from time to time and Piccadilly Circus with its backpackers etc could be an occasion for people-watching... It's not that were going to spend hours there. Just adds richness to the travel experience.

Thanks for creating an itinerary for me, europeannovice! That's not such a bad idea, combining bike tour and Muggles on same day.

Friday night I'm sure we'll be abed by 8pm at the latest!

Greenwich after Tower is an excellent idea.

And I do think we'll go to Hampton Court. Apart from looking amazing, it could be a nice break away from central London's busy-ness.

Just a logistical Q: we catch the train from Waterloo, I believe. So when we get the tube from Marble Arch, travel cards in hand, can we buy the 'add-on' tickets from there?

Also, does walking from Marble Arch on arrival day to Charing X sound reasonable?

Thanks once again for the thought you're all putting in to this.

Please don't eliminate the London Eye. We've taken four grandkids (3 boys, 1 girl) in two different trips (2 on each trip) when they reached the age yours are, and they loved it. I was a bit scared the first time, but not the second.

We also took them to the London Aquarium, which is opposite the London Eye. Hadn't planned on it but it was raining both times and seemed a good refuge. Both sets of grandkids enjoyed it. I couldn't get the first set out of there, whilst the second set took half the time, though they did enjoy going through there.

Google says it is 2.5 miles from Marble Arch to Charing Cross. You can take the bus either #6 or #159. Another excellent resource is the tfl website where you can use the journey planner to see how to go on the tube/bus from point A to point B.

I think you would buy the add-on at the waterloo train station. The experts can confirm this.

The train ride to Hampton Court I think is from the Waterloo station and it is only a half hour to 45 min but factor in the tube too from your starting point to get the total destination time down. I am going to sound like their spokesperson which I am not--we just happened to really like the place.

On Saturday I think you will still have enough time for the car showrooms in between or after your two tours depending on logistics of where the showrooms are in relation to the tour starting points.

Factor in the weather too. We ended up not going to Greenwich that trip because the day we wanted to go it was raining so we ended up at the Imperial War Rooms instead and enjoyed that.

You can also purchase show tickets for an evening performance. Billy Elliott, Matilda--all popular with kids/teens. This way you still have time for sight seeing during the day.

Enjoy and hopefully you will write a trip report when you return.

I rank the aquarium with the zoo. Great if you have extra time but for things you can see at home, I'd rather skip in favor of things that are unique to London especially for a first time visitor who only has 5 days.

London Eye--agree you can line up in the evening after Cabinet War Rooms--literally across the bridge--so very close by to each other. We did that. We toured the Tower of London then took the boat instead of to Greenwich, we went the other way toward Westminster, and toured the Cabinet War rooms and then did the London Eye that night.

<I once bought a very good tennis racket at Lillywhites.>

They also have some very good prices on Lonsdale gear and Vans shoes on the ground floor (at least by comparison to Oz).

For sporty kids, that can make it worthwhile going to Piccadilly - and Lillywhites is open late, so you can go at night and see the garish lights.

http://www.soccerscene.co.uk/Stores/...0Kingdom&sd=10

If kids are into soccer trek up to Carnaby St, famed Carnaby St and head to Soccer Scene where you can buy all the various British team stuff, etc. Carnaby St a short walk from Piccadilly Circus - up Regent St.

No, I'm not eliminating the London Eye, just keeping it on the back burner. I may take my cue from how keen they are. In fact, flexibility is important, in spite of all the planning!

And rain will always have an influence, I tend to forget about that! We've had seemingly endless days of sunshine over winter in my corner of Oz.

Thanks for the info on walking, europeannovice – not too far at all, and just what is needed after 20-odd hrs on a plane. And thanks for info on everything else, too! Very helpful.

We saw Billy Elliot here, but Matilda may be the go. Was thinking along the lines of a couple of trade-offs: Harry Potter for them (and I'll enjoy), Chorus Line for me (and they'll enjoy). Also believe we can go to the Globe and watch a play as the Elizabethans used to (throw rotten fruit?!)

Vans shoes are very pricey in Oz, and we've only ever bought cheap imitations.

Whoo. Spooky. Posting at the same time!

They are into soccer, thanks!

http://www.timeout.com/london/things...the-london-eye

the South Bank Walk is one of my very favorite things to do in London - the walk described in the link above - so many famous sights you can see on both sides of the busy Thames - and people watching - kids roller blading, skateboarding, folks biking - always a hubbub of activity and great views - once at the Tate Modern St Paul's Cathedral is just across the infamous tilting pedesrian bridge that tilted a tad too much when first opened, scaring folks so now it does not tilt as much.

a great walk and great people watching - many think that London's sights are mainly inside its museums and sights like the Cabinet War Rooms (yes of great interest to older folk but IMO would bore kids that age) but to me London's greatest site is its people and tourists who flock to certain areas like Piccadilly Circus or Convent Garden or Oxford Street or the South Bank walk - things some above would call 'pants' or garbage not worth your time but a real joy to London for many lies outside of its many museums, palaces, churches, etc but in the areas thronged with other tourists and Brits themselves.

I hate to suggest this because it bored me, but my kids and husband loved The Blue Man Group.

I don't think the BMG is currently performing in London . . .

Stomp! is fun and creative. Your boys might enjoy that.

Lee Ann

Generally speaking you can only get rail tickets at railway stations - but you can get tickets for any train journey at all stations, so if you decide to go to Hampton Court as well as the HP studio visit, you can get the train tickets to Hampton Court at the same time (saves queuing twice!)

I live in London and have just had a friend staying here with her 12-year old nephew and 15-year old niece - the latter fairly young for her age. Some observations on the kids' responses to London. Which weren't too different to the reactions of friends' and family's children over the past 20 years.

1. They got bored with long bus rides over 40 minutes (and I'm pretty sure that long boat rides would fit into the same category).

2. The South Bank walk is great - doesn't take that long if you get to the Embankment tube station, walk across the pedestrian bridge to the South Bank (there are metal plates on the handrail, showing many of the buildings to be seen), then down the steps to the left and along the river bank as far as the Millenium Bridge - another pedestrian bridge that takes you back across the Thames, and a pedestrian zone all the way up to Saint Paul's Cathedral and buses/tubes to the Tower of London. A walk done by many commuters from the south side of the first pedestrian bridge in about 15 minutes, but allow 30-40 for photos, rubber necking etc. When the tide is low enough, you may see guys making sand sculptures. Plenty of eating opportunities along the way, and you'll walk past the Tate Modern.

3. Big Ben and the Houses of Parliament also seem to score highly - you can walk down there, passing Downing Street on the way, from Trafalgar Square, which is currently home to a giant blue cockerel sculpture on the fourth plinth in the Square. The other 3 plinths have more conventional (and permanent) figures. The fourth plinth is home to a piece of contemporary art, voted for by the public. At Greenwich, outside the Maritime Museum, there is a giant ship in a bottle which started its life as an artwork on the fourth plinth a couple of years ago. If you then walk across Westminster Bridge and turn left at the end down onto the embankment, you are about 10 minutes by foot from the London Eye.

4. Covent Garden market is the old fruit and vegetable market for London, now a lively centre with plenty of street entertainers, market stalls and small shops. I've found that passing over a £20 note and strict instructions to meet back at a certain cafe (there are plenty to choose from) in 45-60 minutes' time is a good place to give the kids a chance to go off and choose their own particular form of London memorabilia without my having to hang about and watch. The London Transport museum in the southeast corner of the market has an excellent poster shop on the first floor, which you can access without going into the museum itself - downstairs are the usual touristy stuff.

5. Places to eat: I don't pretend that the list of mid-range chains given below is complete, but they all have quite a few outlets in London, I've found them reliable and that there's always something for everyone in the group:
Italian: Pizza Express and Carluccios. Also Strada, Bella Italia, Spaghetti House and Ask, but I don't rate these as highly.
Oriental: Hare & Tortoise, Wagamama, Thai Square and Ping Pong.
International: Giraffe, Cafe Rouge, Zizzi.
Also (to take away or eat in), Pret à Manger (mostly sandwiches, salads, soup) and Marks & Spencer food hall - sandwiches, salads, soups, good fruit, soft drinks, wine etc. etc.
Food quality at all major museums is good.

Incidentally, Chorus Line closes at the end of August. If you've not already seen it, and can get tickets, I'd thoroughly recommend War Horse. Suitable for 10 years and up, and definitely for adults as well: http://www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/sh...london-theatre

Thanks for some excellent tips. The walk along the South Bank sounds just the ticket for the first day, in fact (thanks, PalenQ & Grindeldoo). Finishing up with St Paul's will probably be just about all we can take given jet-lag. Taking in the sights and sounds of London will daze and amaze.

Some brilliant options, thanks, Grindeldoo. Covent Gdn a perfect place to grab some 'me' time! And your other tips are great, including eating out. Don't s'pose we could miss Big Ben!!

I probably wd never have checked on Chorus Line dates! War Horse sounds terrific, as does Stomp! (thanks Lee Ann). Wonder if we can risk 1/2 price tix.

From what you say about rail tickets, I'm assuming they are undated if we can buy for a future journey?

We got Stomp for a reduced fare. I'd be surprised if War Horse was in that category.

Photographer's Gallery has good photography, but also a real camera obscura that's open on weekends and a pleasant cafe. My 16 year old son found the photography bleh, but the camera obscura fascinating and spent a lot of time there figuring out the optics: it's very hands on. Also it makes a nice break away from Oxford st. Free to enter, decent prices in the cafe, top notch photography (had to be there on business, took DS along)

I agree with South Bank, also, go inside the Tate Modern, if only for the Turbine Hall.

And something he found fascinating as well (and it is, but not for the faint hearted, so you need to consider whether to expose your sons to it) is the Hell display by Jake and Dinos Chapman at the Imperial War Museum. Both of us were immensely impressed and it made for a philosophical afternoon conversation.

I am travelling from Australia to London with my 14 year old daughter and contacted London Transport regarding a 7 day travel card for her. They advised no photo needed or advance purchase required but to bring proof of age (e.g. passport). We plan to buy at a train station (as opposed to tube) so we can buy the 2:1 tickets.

I've read this post with interest as we'll be doing some similiar things - with lots of shopping thrown in if my daughter has her way!

As well as the normal "High Street" shops which you and your 14 yo daughter will probably love( ie at least an afternoon wandering down Oxford Street ), it's also worth checking out TK Maxx http://www.tkmaxx.com/ for some deeeeep discounts on designer gear and lots of other great bargains. As fellow Oz travellers, I know you will appreciate the bargain opportunities and variety!

>>From what you say about rail tickets, I'm assuming they are undated if we can buy for a future journey?<<

It depends what type of ticket you choose to buy in advance, and for where. For stations within the London commuter belt, there's no saving by tying yourself down to a particular train in advance, but for long-distance trains, there is. Check your particular journey at www.nationalrail.co.uk.

>>I am travelling from Australia to London with my 14 year old daughter and contacted London Transport regarding a 7 day travel card for her. They advised no photo needed or advance purchase required but to bring proof of age (e.g. passport). We plan to buy at a train station (as opposed to tube) so we can buy the 2:1 tickets.<<

If you're looking for the 2for1s you need to consult a National Rail company, not London Transport, who aren't in that scheme.

Stomp's the one, thanks indy_dad.

Thanks, menachem – intriguing title 'Hell' display... Imagining Brueghel (sp?) figures writhing in flames...

More and more amazed at what this city has to offer. Need more time, time, time.

Dang, dreamon – just bought passport-sized photos of me for this purpose! Or is it just children who don't need? Hope you have a great trip!

Thanks, Patrick – just tickets for Watford and Hampton Court: 'add-ons' for 7-day travel cards. It was suggested I could buy these on the same day, to save queuing twice. Just wondering if I have to specify a day of travel.

Thanks, Bendigo, for the shopping suggestions.

Patrick, is it not the case that if we buy a paper 7 day travel card from a train station (presumably that means National Rail) that we can avail ourselves of the 2:1 offers - or have I misunderstood this? It seems complicated and had thought I'd got it sorted but perhaps not.

Grindeldoo's post is really excellent. I'd make one small change for your southbank / first day walk though. Instead of embankment station, I'd use Westminster station, come out on the street with Big Ben directly overhead, walk across Westminster bridge, (from the bridge to the Eye is barely a two minute walk, not the ten she mentions), then continue along the southbank as she describes as far as Tate Modern/the Globe (next door to each other) and then across the Millenium bridge to St. Paul's .

This route is only a little bit longer than the Embankment to St. Paul's route, but takes in Big Ben, parliament, and the Eye. First day this would be a great walk, no heavy duty sightseeing but tons of sites. I'd just pop inside the Tate to see the turbine hall, the walk next door to see the outside of the Globe, the across the fabulous footbridge to St. Paul's.

There are excellent cafes in the Tate, Globe, and St. Paul's under croft so you can eat wherever you need to stop.

, walk across Westminster bridge, (from the bridge to the Eye is barely a two minute walk, not the ten she mentions>

good idea but when I have walked that short route the bridge has always been so so crowded on its pedestrian sidewalk - in due par tot many nedors selling all kinds of kitsch foods and souvenirs on this one of London's busiest gauntlets - not comfy to take in any views - and it has always seemed this thronged when I was there - more a rush hour scene than picturesque stroll. Indeed I have seen times when a 2-minute walk normally would take 10 minutes or more thru this oft IME elbow-elbow sidewalk that just cannot accommodate the hoards of visitors and folks hawking goods.

My son's favorite is yo sushi, a kaiten sushi (conveyor belt) chain you can find across London. Surprising OK sushi, it's a stressfree kind of novelty dining experience. If sushi's your thing of course...

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-teenagers.cfm

an older thread asking same question with some nice responses (and actually folks who said their kids loved the London Dungeon and Madame Tussaud's.

And yes the outdoor markets can be fun - especially the one at Camden Lock on weekends - more of an event than a sprawling market - something for everyone - one of London's top sites by numbers coming every weekend.

Portobello Road is another interesting market as it Petticoat Lane - here you'll hear a lkot of Cockney accents barking out "the world's largest bag - the more you put in it the more it will hold" - "all for a fiver love", etc.

PQ -- From the Bridge to the Eye is about 200 yards -- the crowds there should hardly be all that daunting. Even for an old codger like you ;)

janis you have obviously not walked that route - it is even hard to get out of the tube stations many times - the other tube station is much more relaxed - why go thru such a jam scene and it has been every time I'm on that bridge and by the tube entrance - the scene of Big Ben 200 yareds further down hardly diminishes its awe - and you do not actually see Big Ben - a mistaken reference most not in the know use to erroneously describe the bell tower Big Ben the big bell is housed in.

I actually kind of like Westminster bridge - it just makes me feel like I'm "in London". Yep, it can be crowded... but it certainly isn't worse than Piccadilly Circus! I especially like when there is a bagpiper playing on the bridge... kitschy? sure... and I know - Scottish, but I still really like it. Call me a sap...

That is actually a route that I've taken on a photo tour - walking across the bridge about 2/3 of the way and setting the camera for a long exposure - waiting for the iconic double decker red buses and taking the photo of the buses (blurred in motion) with Big Ben behind them.

Also, I see PQ is making his push for Mme Tussaud's and Dungeon - others may like them - and there may be a place for them. You have a limited time - and it seems like a good itinerary. The reality is that you have to cut *something* - it is always hard! While these may be interesting, you have to make the hard calls - and I think you've done that.

I'm still going to put my plug in again for climbing O2 in Greenwich - it really is fun - something unique - and active. Plus I got to get a "Get Over It" tee shirt ("I climbed O2" on the back).

smm, email me at surf_mom at live dot com and I can share a few things with you.

Also, did I see you head to Paris after London? There are many of us who have also been there and have thoughts to share...

I can't imagine any 12- 14 old boy not grooving when they see the chopping block in the tower where the 'eads came off!

>>janis you have obviously not walked that route - it is even hard to get out of the tube stations many times -<<

Oh maybe 200-300 times, maybe more. Last time -- In May happened to walk across Westminster Bridge at least 3 time (may have been 4). Rode the Eye one of those times, walked the whole southbank another time. I honestly have NO idea what the heck you are talking about.

When have you <i>ever</i> not been able to get out of the tube station?

You choose the weirdest nits to pick IMO - but that is just being PQ.

Hi everyone, I feel mighty chuffed to have the first day sorted.

We will walk/tube from Marble Arch to Victoria stn to buy rail travel cards. Walk/tube to Westminster and do this wonderful South Bank walk to St Paul's, stopping en route for eats, then depending on fatigue levels either tube it back to Marble Arch to chill out in Hyde Park for a while, or have a look at Trafalgar Sq first.

Checked out the link, thanks PalenQ. Portobello Rd mkt could be good (I suppose people still go to sticky beak Notting Hill movie location?!), and we could combine with that lunch recommended at Churchill Arms pub. And/or Covent Garden. I love some colour and life and being outdoors. We probably won't spend as long as many people would in museums. So this will give us opportunities for other activities. I don't think I can delay more than 2 days to find these blasted car showrooms.

Yes, we do have to cut and I haven't made firm decisions on what to cut, so I'm not ruling out O2 climb, surfmom! And I'm not even completely writing off the Dungeon, believe it or not!

Paris – I have some pretty good ideas already, but I may pop up with some Qs. Also have some Qs on Swiss hikes to sort out! The trip is beginning to feel real.

Thanks for all your help.