Lisbon is terribly dirty
 

Iwas in Lisbon in August and I really disliked the place.Everywhere was dirty and black.I wonder why people visit this kind of place.it is like the third world.You can see grafitti everywhere , it is so annoying.Tram 28 is unbearable, it passes through ridicously dirty roads and houses.Most of the lisboetas stay in terrible conditions, they are poor and you can see that if you take the tram 28 or the train from Rossio to Sintra.The scene is so terrible, poor portuguese people staying in ugly , big, dirty buildings.<BR>The + .....:Parque das nacoes<BR> Pasteis <BR> the biggest shopping center in Europe:Colombo<BR><BR> CASCAIS and SINTRA are nothing special at all.

I agree with some of your statements, but I find it hard to understand why you felt Sintra was "nothing at all." Did you go to the Pena Palace? It was the high point of our trip. But maybe you wouldn't care for the Alhambra in Spain either.

kkisn,<BR> Sorry to hear you had such a bad trip, but I have to disagree with most of what you said. Lisbon reminds me of a somewhat poorer Paris--have you ever ventured off the tourist paths in Paris? I don't know Tram 28 but have seen some very poor neighborhoods and just choose not to hang out there. Grafitti? That's fairly commonplace all over Europe these days and I actually commented that there was some true artistry on display in Lisbon. Sintra is a wonderful town, much more even than Pena Palace to make it a delight. Have never been to Cascais but will assume it is probably not as bad as you report. While Portugal is one of the poorer countries in the EU, there seems to be a certain joie de vivre to the people there and it's unfortunate you didn't catch the vibe!

I'm making plans to go there in November...what is it really like?<BR><BR>US

Mr or Mrs kkisn, you don't even have a name!You must have had some kind of trauma in Lisbon to say the things you said! What happened? You were expecting to be pampered and you weren't?I was born in Lisbon and live near Cascais and I can tell you maybe we have less poors than you have in the States.<BR>Maybe it's your dirty mind that saw only the negative points every city has. Maybe your budget didn't allow you to stay in a good hotel. And what is tram 28? I live here and don't know what you are talking about.<BR><BR>I agree that Lisbon isn't the most beautiful city in Europe, but you surely don't know our history and Lisbon is a city with charm.. Poor portuguese who live in terrible conditions? Do ourselves a big favor: stay home or go to a shrink, I think you may need it! <BR>By the way, where do you live?

I hope that this is only one person's opinion. I also hope to go there in May. It would be nice to hear some more good things about Lisbon. It looks very interesting to me from the guide books.

Maybe Kkisn is His/her name. If Lisbon is dirty, why can't he/she call a spade a spade.

Theresa, why do you assume that kkisn is from the States?

One more thing: when you say that Parque das Na&ccedil;&otilde;es and Shopping Colombo were the plus about Lisbon you are showing the kind of tourist you are. I went once to each place and for me it was enough! But at least you surely had the opportunity to see that we aren't the poor portuguese you stated! I bet they were full of people shopping and shopping and we have very good quality shops, european standards.

Shadow, my assumption that he or she is from the States is because most of the people here in Fodors are Americans, not<BR>that I have anything against the States, in fact I went there often I liked it very much. But I was only stating that in the States I also saw many poor people in terrible conditions in the streets, like I saw in many other countries where I went.<BR>Sorry but saying Lisbon is dirty is one thing , maybe not the cleanest city in the world, but I am Portuguese and I'm proud of it and I don't like people to say things like he or she said about my country, mainly because most of them aren't true.

Next time call to say you're coming so we can wash it first.

I have been to Lisbon, Cascais and Sintra and we had a wonderful time! Lisbon is a big city...yes, its not perfectly clean...but then again what city is? That does not mean that it isn't wonderful in its own way. <BR><BR>Just imagine if someone from another country came and visited a slum in any of our cities...would you want them going back to their country saying how awful everyone here has it?<BR><BR>The original poster is entitled to his/her opinion...but for anyone else just read each post and make your own judgement.<BR><BR>We would go back to Portgual in an instant if we had the chance!<BR><BR>

I went to Portugal twice in the late '80s and developed a special love for Lisbon and its admittedly timeworn, slighty funky vibe. I noticed that although Portugal seemed "third world" compared to, say, Austria, the Portugese didn't seem to realize they were poor. I agree with "sorry" about the joie de vivre of the lisboetas - they dressed well, ate well and drank some of the best damn wines on earth every day. Lisbon suited me fine.

Sam and aj:<BR><BR>You will of course be your own judge, but kkisn paints an unduly bleak picture of a wonderful city and its even more wonderful environs. There was nothing poor or dirty in Lisbon that you wouldn't see in Rome or Paris or London or New York if you went looking for it. Whatever this Tram 28 is--stay away!!! kksin's highlight was shopping at a galleria with the same up-scale shops you'll find anywhere--I think this is a clue to something. <BR><BR>There is a lot of EU money pouring into Lisbon--they are rebuilding many roads and cleaning and shoring up many buildings in prep for the World Cup or some such big deal (faulty memory on the detail). It is a wonderful place that may or may not replace your other favorite places, but certainly worth a visit to decide for yourself.

Poor people???? Mon Dieu, how did you stand them??? You should have shot them on site, the miserable things. Poor?? How dare they be poor??? Long live the rich!!!!!!!!!!!! We are the moral ones!!!!!!!

can't be as dirty and decrepit as downtown LA, Chicago, Detroit etc, etc, etc<BR><BR>Peter<BR>http://tlp.netfirms.com<BR><BR><BR>

Fortunately most people here don't agree with kkisn's ignorant, uncultured and insensitive post.

I lived in Lisbon for three years from 1993 to 1996 and I loved it. Yes, it's not as modern as many other European capitals and yes, maybe the "poor" are more noticable, but the beautiful beaches, wonderful twisting streets through the old sections of the Barrio Alto and the Alfama and Lapa areas, the good food, the great wine, beautiful pottery and warm and friendly people. I'm sorry Kkisn you disliked Lisbon so much - I miss it terribly and would love to be reassigned there.

I lived in Lisbon for three years from 1993 to 1996 and I loved it. Yes, it's not as modern as many other European capitals and yes, maybe the "poor" are more noticable, but the beautiful beaches, wonderful twisting streets through the old sections of the Barrio Alto and the Alfama and Lapa areas, the good food, the great wine, beautiful pottery and warm and friendly people. I'm sorry Kkisn you disliked Lisbon so much - I miss it terribly and would love to be reassigned there.

I look forward to my trip to Lisbon! Once,while walking on a street in Rome I saw/heard a tourist video-tapeing. He was saying here we are in Rome it is a very dirty city! At the same time I was thinking here I am having the priviledge to walk on the very streets of history! A dream come true for me. Wow, two people can sure see things differently.

ttt para Lisboa!!!

ttt para Lisboa!!!

Topping

I'm also not a big fan of Lisboa. I also found it dirty and droll. Not to say I wouldn't recommend someone to go there. Everybody should travel and see new towns, cities, barrios, as this the only way to get out of our ethnocentric barriers. Loved the Port Institute though. And loved the Algarve.

I always feel sorry for those who can't find the beauty. There is ALWAYS something positive and for it to be a mall...hmmm...<BR><BR>I found Lisbon to be wonderful. Was it dirty? Maybe, but not any more than many other major cities. The beauty of the place is in the sites, history and people. Never have I seen such beautiful manueline architecture! They also have wonderful castles and the most gracious people with a joy of living! Lisbon is a place I can return to again and again!<BR>Jan

Lisbon dirty? Come on! Maybe there are certain areas of the city that aren't the cleanest,but every big city has those. Don't think things have changed that much since I was there about 4 years ago, but the city center and the hilly older town were absolutely fine. The only thing that was a surprise was how people in coffee shops/caf&eacute;s often drop napkins and bits of food directly on the floor below them, but I wasn't too long in those places and it just served as food-for-fodder for stories. Moreoever, the people downtown were incredibly well dressed, I remember esp. the women in fashionable black dresses, with their long black hair and black sunglasses. Very cosmopolitan indeed.<BR><BR>I would go back to Lisbon in a heartbeat.

Message to kkisn: CLAM IT, TROLL

Hey, this is ridiculous! I've been there and it is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been! It's full of history, it has marvelous landmarks and above all the people are very nice and very helpful and sometimes you feel like you are in another world, a better one, untouched by the craziness of 21st century...

I got engaged in Lisbon last November. I too found the city to be run down, but this was November and it did rain (there are historical reasons for this ie rent control on the buildings) BUT, after our initial reaction we found it to be very nice to visit, the Xmas lights were on, and the trams were fun. On the whole found Lisbon very charming with some great examples of architecture i.e. the train station. A journey across the river with the locals to the fantastic fish restaurants (well more like canteens) is well worth it. Also, it is getting a name as a club centre of Europe, with many people visiting just for the night life.<BR>Enjoy <BR>

Lisbon is not terribly dirty, but one of the best cities in Europe. Lisbon is very a beautiful and safe city - not from the third world but from the world of poets and lovers.<BR>Kkisn is ridicoulsly ignorant about this city.

ttt

I love tram #28

You shouldn't be so snobby.<BR><BR>Look at some of the towns in the US near the border with Mexico - they are basically favelas and one could be forgiven for thinking they were in Latin America rather than the USA if they stumbled across some of these places, most of which do not even appear on maps.<BR><BR>I think the appalling wealth disparities in the US are far worse than a bit of dirt in Lisbon.

Lisbon is one of the most romantic and beautiful cities in Europe. I agree with Teresa: the fact that Kkisn's best memory was a shopping mall (for God's sake ! ) speaks volumes. She didn't mention the memories of Pessoa, the fado cafes in the Bairro Alto, and the to die for Pasteis de Nata in Belem, among other many nice features of the Portuguese capital.

Lisbon dirty? Compared to what city? Lisbon touches your heart, but then some people have a sterilized clock in side, ticking away, away... How pathetic!

I don't think Lisbon is dirtier than other european and US cities. Even in Paris - the City of the Lights - you have many areas dirtier than others, it deppends. I think Lisbon is unique and you have to compare it to other european capitals to understand it. No other european capital is like Lisbon. I'm not saying Lisbon is better, I'm just saying it is different and unique because it has so many things that you won't find in any other place. All the set is unique, the atmosphere, the historical features, the geographic features, the "Estilo Manuelino" (Manuelin style), the proximity with the river (Tejo), the "Fado" song, and so many other things. More than being beautier or uglier, being different and unique is more important and priceless.

Sarakiss that thread you have commented on is 9 years old and things may have changed since then.

Ummm.... this thread is 9 years old...

hmm, just registered member - maybe she has been hired by a Lisbon PR firm.

We were there in Oct. - yes, maybe it has been cleaned up in the 9 years since the op started the thread - we had a very pleasant time.

What gives being 9 years old? It's still opened and it's an up to date matter.